Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:02 pm Post subject: Business Insider magazine calling the Chris Paul veto a disaster
Cut and pasted:
In one of the strangest, most controversial decisions in recent league history, NBA commissioner David Stern vetoed a trade that would have sent Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers in early December of 2011.
A week later the NBA accepted a trade that sent Paul to the Los Angeles Clippers, altering the trajectories of three franchises in the process.
At the time the league owned the New Orleans Hornets, Paul's team, after buying them from George Shinn in 2010. While the league owned the team, they let general manager Dell Demps make the player-personnel decisions ... until he tried to trade Paul to the Lakers.
According to Howard Beck of the New York Times, Stern vetoed the trade at the behest of other owners, including Dan Gilbert of the Cavs, who thought the deal was too good for the Lakers. The NBA's decision was roundly criticized at the time, and it looks even worse now.
Here's the package the NBA rejected from the Lakers, which would have been a three-team trade with the Rockets:
•Hornets get: Goran Dragic, Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, and New York's 2012 1st-round pick (which became Royce White)
•Lakers get: Chris Paul
•Rockets get: Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom
Stern ultimately accepted this deal from the Clippers:
• Hornets get: Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Minnesota's 2012 1st-round pick (which became Austin Rivers)
• Clippers get: Chris Paul, two 2nd-round picks
Three years later, this has been a terrible trade for the Hornets.
Kaman now plays for Portland and Aminu plays for Dallas. Austin Rivers had one of the worst rookie years ever, and has yet to average more than eight points in a season.
Gordon, the centerpiece of the trade, has been undone by a succession of injuries. This year he's off to a horrific start. He's averaging nine points per game and shooting 23% from three-point range — a far cry from the 22.3 points per game and 36% three-point shooting numbers he put up in his final season in Los Angeles. On a New Orleans team that has playoff aspirations, he has been more of a detriment than an asset. He's also on a crippling contract that pays him $15 million in 2015-16.
The NBA couldn't have known the trade would work out like this back in 2011. Eric Gordon was only 22 years old and coming off a season where he scored 22.3 points per game. There was a chance he'd become a perennial All-Star shooting guard.
That didn't happen.
Three years later, with the power of hindsight, it's clear the Lakers' offer that the NBA vetoed was better. Goran Dragic is one of the best point guards in the NBA, and he's about to get a max contract next summer. Martin and Scola are also better than any role player New Orleans got from the Clippers.
The Hornets (now Pelicans) ultimately lucked out, winning the 2012 NBA Draft lottery and taking Anthony Davis — who looks like the third-best player in the NBA early in this season. But that trade was an absolute fiasco, and New Orleans would have been in a much better position right now if the league never intervened in the first place.
The NBA hired Demps to be general manager, and had no business overruling him on a basketball decision. It was always going to go down as one of Stern and the league's greatest failures, especially now that the NBA so obviously took the wrong deal. _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood.
Stern wanted to make the team easier to sell. Taking on a bunch of salary just to be a little better than mediocre wasn't going to do that. They sucked so badly they got Anthony Davis, which makes up for anything else.
I am still fuming about it. What makes it unbearable is David Stern then turning around and gift wrapping Chris Paul to the (bleep) Clippers _________________
Evidently wasn't a good idea for anyone to do business with the NBA's Hornets at the time. Especially the Lakers, but other teams interested in Paul could have suffered a similar fate. _________________ -Avenue of the Champions- -RIP Dr Buss- #824
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Business Insider magazine calling the Chris Paul veto a disaster
eddiejonze wrote:
Cut and pasted:
In one of the strangest, most controversial decisions in recent league history, NBA commissioner David Stern vetoed a trade that would have sent Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers in early December of 2011.
A week later the NBA accepted a trade that sent Paul to the Los Angeles Clippers, altering the trajectories of three franchises in the process.
At the time the league owned the New Orleans Hornets, Paul's team, after buying them from George Shinn in 2010. While the league owned the team, they let general manager Dell Demps make the player-personnel decisions ... until he tried to trade Paul to the Lakers.
According to Howard Beck of the New York Times, Stern vetoed the trade at the behest of other owners, including Dan Gilbert of the Cavs, who thought the deal was too good for the Lakers. The NBA's decision was roundly criticized at the time, and it looks even worse now.
Here's the package the NBA rejected from the Lakers, which would have been a three-team trade with the Rockets:
•Hornets get: Goran Dragic, Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, and New York's 2012 1st-round pick (which became Royce White)
•Lakers get: Chris Paul
•Rockets get: Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom
Stern ultimately accepted this deal from the Clippers:
• Hornets get: Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Minnesota's 2012 1st-round pick (which became Austin Rivers)
• Clippers get: Chris Paul, two 2nd-round picks
Three years later, this has been a terrible trade for the Hornets.
Kaman now plays for Portland and Aminu plays for Dallas. Austin Rivers had one of the worst rookie years ever, and has yet to average more than eight points in a season.
Gordon, the centerpiece of the trade, has been undone by a succession of injuries. This year he's off to a horrific start. He's averaging nine points per game and shooting 23% from three-point range — a far cry from the 22.3 points per game and 36% three-point shooting numbers he put up in his final season in Los Angeles. On a New Orleans team that has playoff aspirations, he has been more of a detriment than an asset. He's also on a crippling contract that pays him $15 million in 2015-16.
The NBA couldn't have known the trade would work out like this back in 2011. Eric Gordon was only 22 years old and coming off a season where he scored 22.3 points per game. There was a chance he'd become a perennial All-Star shooting guard.
That didn't happen.
Three years later, with the power of hindsight, it's clear the Lakers' offer that the NBA vetoed was better. Goran Dragic is one of the best point guards in the NBA, and he's about to get a max contract next summer. Martin and Scola are also better than any role player New Orleans got from the Clippers.
The Hornets (now Pelicans) ultimately lucked out, winning the 2012 NBA Draft lottery and taking Anthony Davis — who looks like the third-best player in the NBA early in this season. But that trade was an absolute fiasco, and New Orleans would have been in a much better position right now if the league never intervened in the first place.
The NBA hired Demps to be general manager, and had no business overruling him on a basketball decision. It was always going to go down as one of Stern and the league's greatest failures, especially now that the NBA so obviously took the wrong deal.
No way around this. Stern branded himself with this act. Playing along, if he were really looking out for the Hornets (and league's) best interest you give Demps a heads up and let him retool the deal. The Dragic package could have been spun to a 4th team if they only wanted to rid themselves of money and add picks. Instead they took Gordon's deal, injury or not that still doesn't follow any sort of plan that makes more logic than the Laker package. Letting Demps make a move, making it public and vetoing is bigger than the Laker fan base. No matter how many want to question Kobe's legacy, Stern's is tarnished even if you support him.
Monumental Fail on the part of the NBA. Stern is my least favorite person in sports. I think CP3 would have been the go between with Kobe and Dwight, and with Paul running the point we would have been so much better. That season spun out of control so fast after the veto. Would have been the most effective rebuild in the current NBA landscape. (bleep) Stern, (bleep) Gilbert, (bleep) Cuban ... etc. _________________ Magic*Kobe*LBJ*AD*Cap
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:02 am Post subject:
I've always found it kind of funny that Dragic turned out to be better than Eric Gordon in the end. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I believe Odom was also headed to the Hornets as well. I'll have to look that up.
Edit: Looked it up and it was Dragic, Odom, Scola, Martin and the Knicks 2012 pick (#10). Odom probably would hace been immediately flipped for another pick.
That deal probably messed the Lakers up for a decade. It's the one singular reason we're in the situation we are in now. No one in the league wanted to make an even deal with the Lakers after Stern's veto either. _________________ "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest
Last edited by oldschool32 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:00 am; edited 1 time in total
I believe Odom was also headed to the Hornets as well. I'll have to look that up.
Correct.
I don't know why this writer feels the need to rehash this topic right now. Like it or not, things have worked out pretty well for the Pelicans.
I believe that the going theory by most fans, writers, or Laker haters in general was that the Clippers deal was "by far a better package than the garbage the Lakers had offered". It's relevant now because it's the reason the Lakers have Kobe Bryant and castoffs and not Paul, Kobe, and Howard. There is a reason we have this roster, and it isn't because of years and years of incompetence like most would like to believe. _________________ "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest
The NBA Front Office and every NBA owner didn't have a problem with letting general manager Dell Demps make the player-personnel decisions for the Hornets. Dan Gilbert and Mark Cuban didn't say a word. So, any and every team that made offers to Dell Demps, did so in good faith believing that Dell was the person to deal with.
The fact that Stern pulled the rug out from under the "agreed upon process" just because Gilbert and Cuban didn't like the deal... wreaks of favoritism, bias, and unprofessional conduct.
This act by Stern altered the history of two franchises and one of the great franchises that helped bring the league to the heights of popularity. _________________ A three headed monster... Jeannie, Pelinka, and Ham... another terrible season.
Conflict of Interest - Phil Jackson called it a year earlier as well outright stating how where they going to handle trading Paul when the time came they had to. PJ was a wise old sage.
Only partially damaged the Lakers. They finished that off with the Steve Nash signing.
Stern wanted to make the team easier to sell. Taking on a bunch of salary just to be a little better than mediocre wasn't going to do that. They sucked so badly they got Anthony Davis, which makes up for anything else.
True. I still hate it. It has led to the death spiral the Lakers are currently in.
That move would have led to a more graceful aging of Kobe. No way in a CP3/Kobe/(likely Dwight) relationship is Kobe playing the way he is now. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:33 am Post subject:
oldschool32 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
oldschool32 wrote:
I believe Odom was also headed to the Hornets as well. I'll have to look that up.
Correct.
I don't know why this writer feels the need to rehash this topic right now. Like it or not, things have worked out pretty well for the Pelicans.
I believe that the going theory by most fans, writers, or Laker haters in general was that the Clippers deal was "by far a better package than the garbage the Lakers had offered". It's relevant now because it's the reason the Lakers have Kobe Bryant and castoffs and not Paul, Kobe, and Howard. There is a reason we have this roster, and it isn't because of years and years of incompetence like most would like to believe.
The Clippers deal was definitely worse, but at least they were able to tank and get Anthony Davis.
Martin is a one-dimensional chucker. Scola was okay. Odom was/is a crackhead. Dragic is pretty good.
Anthony Davis is better than all of them combined. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 258 Location: the other coast
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:48 am Post subject:
It amazes me that it takes Business Insider to actually make this point in print. ESPN is willing to dedicate space and resources to a hatchet piece on Kobe with no legit sources and really nothing new of consequence. Yet they cannot take the time to investigate " one of the strangest, most controversial decisions in recent league history." Everyone in sports media loves to talk about the troubles with the Busses or Kobe, but no one is willing to tackle what would be a huge investigative piece in any other industry.
I believe that the going theory by most fans, writers, or Laker haters in general was that the Clippers deal was "by far a better package than the garbage the Lakers had offered". It's relevant now because it's the reason the Lakers have Kobe Bryant and castoffs and not Paul, Kobe, and Howard. There is a reason we have this roster, and it isn't because of years and years of incompetence like most would like to believe.
Oh, I understand why a lot of Laker fans are still upset. To be honest, I suspect that this is misplaced anger, because I don't think that Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant would have meshed very well. Was Chris Paul going to become an effective off-the-ball shooter? Or was Kobe going to turn the ball over to a PG for the first time in his life? Probably neither. The Chris Paul trade probably would have been a bust for us, but we'll never actually know. A lot of people see a glorious Kobe-Paul partnership in the theatre of their minds.
But my question wasn't about Laker fans, and neither was the article. The article talked about what would have been better for the Pelicans. Frankly, the Lakers deal wasn't that great for the Pelicans. Odom, Scola, and Martin were overpaid, aging spare parts. Dragic became good a few years later, but even now he isn't a superstar. Gordon had more long term star potential than any of those guys. I suppose that in hindsight Dragic is worth more than Gordon, but the Pelicans weren't trading Chris Paul for Dragic.
At the time, I questioned the decision because the Lakers deal would have given the Pelicans the chance to be at least competitive for a couple years. In hindsight, knowing how badly Odom fell apart and how quickly Scola declined, I would have to say that David Stern got it right for the Pelicans.
Stern wanted to make the team easier to sell. Taking on a bunch of salary just to be a little better than mediocre wasn't going to do that. They sucked so badly they got Anthony Davis, which makes up for anything else.
True. I still hate it. It has led to the death spiral the Lakers are currently in.
That move would have led to a more graceful aging of Kobe. No way in a CP3/Kobe/(likely Dwight) relationship is Kobe playing the way he is now.
New Orleans was going to win the lottery no matter what. _________________ 2008-2010 Finals. 28.9 PTS 6.1 REB 5.4 AST 2.1 STLs
I believe that the going theory by most fans, writers, or Laker haters in general was that the Clippers deal was "by far a better package than the garbage the Lakers had offered". It's relevant now because it's the reason the Lakers have Kobe Bryant and castoffs and not Paul, Kobe, and Howard. There is a reason we have this roster, and it isn't because of years and years of incompetence like most would like to believe.
Oh, I understand why a lot of Laker fans are still upset. To be honest, I suspect that this is misplaced anger, because I don't think that Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant would have meshed very well. Was Chris Paul going to become an effective off-the-ball shooter? Or was Kobe going to turn the ball over to a PG for the first time in his life? Probably neither. The Chris Paul trade probably would have been a bust for us, but we'll never actually know. A lot of people see a glorious Kobe-Paul partnership in the theatre of their minds.
But my question wasn't about Laker fans, and neither was the article. The article talked about what would have been better for the Pelicans. Frankly, the Lakers deal wasn't that great for the Pelicans. Odom, Scola, and Martin were overpaid, aging spare parts. Dragic became good a few years later, but even now he isn't a superstar. Gordon had more long term star potential than any of those guys. I suppose that in hindsight Dragic is worth more than Gordon, but the Pelicans weren't trading Chris Paul for Dragic.
At the time, I questioned the decision because the Lakers deal would have given the Pelicans the chance to be at least competitive for a couple years. In hindsight, knowing how badly Odom fell apart and how quickly Scola declined, I would have to say that David Stern got it right for the Pelicans.
I agree with this, Paul and Kobe would have never co-existed well in the back court. Though I will say this, Kobe would have finally played with a pg who wouldn't have just given him the ball every time down the floor. Paul is strong minded, and would have ran the offense with the ball in his hands most of the time. Kobe would still get the ball more than others, but he would have had to deal with playing off the ball a lot more. There is no doubt in my mind that they would have bumped heads, but Kobe would have had to deal with Paul distributing the ball. _________________ "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest
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