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Peoples Hernandez
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Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 3727
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 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Moses wrote: | Kinda ruined basketball for me to be honest. Made me think of the NBA as rigged.
It's a blow that our team has yet to recover from. Whatever anyone says, the bottom line is that Stern hired a GM to run the team autonomously and to avoid a conflict of interest. When you're the NBA commissioner, you don't get to wear "an owner's hat" too, it is irrelevant whether you think another team could offer a better deal, you hired a GM to prevent conflict of interest so you should've let them do their job. |
See my sig... It's all entertainment baby.
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Whenever the Lakers benefit all of a sudden rules need to be changed and trades need to be blocked.
"It's all entertainment" -Rasheed Wallace |
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JamezAmp
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 1788
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers2001 wrote: | | cthroatgtr wrote: | Conflict of Interest - Phil Jackson called it a year earlier as well outright stating how where they going to handle trading Paul when the time came they had to. PJ was a wise old sage.
Only partially damaged the Lakers. They finished that off with the Steve Nash signing. |
I agree. It was damaging but still
1. Trade for Howard knowing full well he wasn't completely committed to staying
2. Along with above when things fell apart with Dwight mid season they could have just traded him it wasn't as if he had a no trade clause.
3. Traded a 40 year old steve nash who had declined .. I know many of you say " he had a good season before we got him" Bull.. the dude was clearly on the decline . I honestly felt that we should have kept sessions ...oh by the way we wasted a draft pick on him.
4. MDA over Phil Jackson
With decesions like that you end up like the 2014-15 lottery bound lakers...only the Suns own that lotto pick. |
There is no number 3 without a dirty commissioner an whining owners who are perennial losers. I get it that it's over but the we're still right in the middle of the effect of it. The frustration comes from knowing something was wrong and no one could do anything about and no one would be punished for it. Except us |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| So who is the 2nd best player in the NBA if Davis is the third? |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| JamezAmp wrote: | | Lakers2001 wrote: | | cthroatgtr wrote: | Conflict of Interest - Phil Jackson called it a year earlier as well outright stating how where they going to handle trading Paul when the time came they had to. PJ was a wise old sage.
Only partially damaged the Lakers. They finished that off with the Steve Nash signing. |
I agree. It was damaging but still
1. Trade for Howard knowing full well he wasn't completely committed to staying
2. Along with above when things fell apart with Dwight mid season they could have just traded him it wasn't as if he had a no trade clause.
3. Traded a 40 year old steve nash who had declined .. I know many of you say " he had a good season before we got him" Bull.. the dude was clearly on the decline . I honestly felt that we should have kept sessions ...oh by the way we wasted a draft pick on him.
4. MDA over Phil Jackson
With decesions like that you end up like the 2014-15 lottery bound lakers...only the Suns own that lotto pick. |
There is no number 3 without a dirty commissioner an whining owners who are perennial losers. I get it that it's over but the we're still right in the middle of the effect of it. The frustration comes from knowing something was wrong and no one could do anything about and no one would be punished for it. Except us |
And there was no #1, Howard's agent told the Lakers otherwise.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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This debacle crippled our franchise for literally 10 years. The equivalent of the death penalty to a NCAA football program.
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vkewalra
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1722
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | So who is the 2nd best player in the NBA if Davis is the third? |
I know he's hurt, but there's this guy named Kevin. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32754
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | thejet24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Stern wanted to make the team easier to sell. Taking on a bunch of salary just to be a little better than mediocre wasn't going to do that. They sucked so badly they got Anthony Davis, which makes up for anything else. |
True. I still hate it. It has led to the death spiral the Lakers are currently in.
That move would have led to a more graceful aging of Kobe. No way in a CP3/Kobe/(likely Dwight) relationship is Kobe playing the way he is now. |
New Orleans was going to win the lottery no matter what. |
Ridiculous. A reputable accounting firm oversees the lottery now, every team sends it's own representatives, and the process is way too complicated these days to easily fix a lottery. Given the high instances of plain old busts from number one picks on down, and the number of people who would have to be involved and then keep their mouths shut, plus the huge hit the NBA would take in terms of integrity and possible violation of federal law and lawsuits from their own owners if they were ever found out, there's insanely little chance the NBA would try to fix the lottery for any team. People love their conspiracy theories, and conveniently can make up a narrative about any result that actually comes about, but the actual chance of it is low because it would be stupid and nearly impossible to keep quiet for long. |
I'm a CPA (active status, though I won't return to practice) and I was in charge of overseeing multiple lottery drawings for a certain state. I didn't feel particularly infallible, in fact I'm sure the state could have pulled one over on me, particularly as they knew my audit tests from observing me in the past. In fact, you could have guessed most of my tests as they were very straight-forward (as all audit tests tend to be, unless you are actively searching for fraud).
For the record, I doubt the NBA lottery is fixed. Like any form of management fraud, a lottery could be fixed with enough effort, even with CPA oversight. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Remember when Arthur Andersen was a well-respected accounting firm?
The probabilities of the NBA lottery being rigged are low, but as AP stated, it's not impossible to do so.
While it's probably coincidence that Clev. happened to get 3 #1 picks in the past 4 years after LeBron left (and was the main reason why he came back), or that Anthony Davis magically appeared after the team was sold, I can understand the angst folks have towards the NBA.
As I've learned as a practicing attorney, you can always get someone to sign off/verify/authenticate anything (so called "expert witnesses" who will say whatever you want).
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Sorry, impossible to say that was a horrible trade for New Orleans when they ended up with Anthony Davis because of it. |
End thread.... |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | At the time, I questioned the decision because the Lakers deal would have given the Pelicans the chance to be at least competitive for a couple years. In hindsight, knowing how badly Odom fell apart and how quickly Scola declined, I would have to say that David Stern got it right for the Pelicans. |
If by competitive you mean good enough to not get a high pick but not good enough to make the playoffs or get out of round 1 if they do, then I agree. After being in that position with the Rockets, with the majority of those players involved in the trade, I can say it sucked. If you have no chance to win then rebuild. |
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troy
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Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 4975
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Nothing rigged. Why would Stern want to ruin one of his biggest NBA markets? And there' no guarantee Paul would have even stayed with the Lakers, especially with Kobe's "I eat first" mentality and propensity of ruining NBA guards. Lastly the presence of Chris Paul doesn't put quality teams over the top. Paul has been around for awhile, and he's never been to the finals, despite playing on some good teams. The Clippers, with all their talent and experienced head coach, are actually struggling this year. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| kray28_ wrote: | | Only thing that worked out well for them was winning the lottery and getting Anthony Davis....which actually had no direct relation to the trade itself. You can argue that the Laker trade might have made the Hornets too good to win the lottery, but I would argue that it would have happened anyway because Stern is a corrupt cheating mutha. |
Yes it did. The team would have had 1 very minute chance to win with more wins, similar to every year Houston had those same players and could never crack the lottery. Losing a ton really helps your chances. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| alohalakers wrote: | | Don't forget that either the Pellicans or the Lakers could have flipped Kevin Martin and the pick for James Harden too, which is what Houston did. |
Houston essentially gave OKC 3 1st round picks (Lamb was traded before playing for us), including two lotto picks, and a 2nd rounder. It took a lot more than just Kevin Martin and a pick. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| vkewalra wrote: |
But they could have potentially gotten the same result by taking the Lakers trade and holding all of their players out as injured a la the Sixers. Speaking of which, ask the Sixers how well tanking guarantees you a first pick. |
And it would have cost them more money in team salary to do that (remember, the Rockets had to amnesty Scola to get rid of him), which is not what you want when trying to sell a team. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | thejet24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Stern wanted to make the team easier to sell. Taking on a bunch of salary just to be a little better than mediocre wasn't going to do that. They sucked so badly they got Anthony Davis, which makes up for anything else. |
True. I still hate it. It has led to the death spiral the Lakers are currently in.
That move would have led to a more graceful aging of Kobe. No way in a CP3/Kobe/(likely Dwight) relationship is Kobe playing the way he is now. |
New Orleans was going to win the lottery no matter what. |
Ridiculous. A reputable accounting firm oversees the lottery now, every team sends it's own representatives, and the process is way too complicated these days to easily fix a lottery. Given the high instances of plain old busts from number one picks on down, and the number of people who would have to be involved and then keep their mouths shut, plus the huge hit the NBA would take in terms of integrity and possible violation of federal law and lawsuits from their own owners if they were ever found out, there's insanely little chance the NBA would try to fix the lottery for any team. People love their conspiracy theories, and conveniently can make up a narrative about any result that actually comes about, but the actual chance of it is low because it would be stupid and nearly impossible to keep quiet for long. |
I'm a CPA (active status, though I won't return to practice) and I was in charge of overseeing multiple lottery drawings for a certain state. I didn't feel particularly infallible, in fact I'm sure the state could have pulled one over on me, particularly as they knew my audit tests from observing me in the past. In fact, you could have guessed most of my tests as they were very straight-forward (as all audit tests tend to be, unless you are actively searching for fraud).
For the record, I doubt the NBA lottery is fixed. Like any form of management fraud, a lottery could be fixed with enough effort, even with CPA oversight. |
Sure, the lottery can be fixed. My whole take on the fixing and other conspiricies is that if you really believe the league is cheating, then they are cheating OVERALL. That includes the years your team wins. It doesn't make any sense to take the chance of fixing a piece and not doing the whole thing. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Remember when Arthur Andersen was a well-respected accounting firm?
The probabilities of the NBA lottery being rigged are low, but as AP stated, it's not impossible to do so.
While it's probably coincidence that Clev. happened to get 3 #1 picks in the past 4 years after LeBron left (and was the main reason why he came back), or that Anthony Davis magically appeared after the team was sold, I can understand the angst folks have towards the NBA.
As I've learned as a practicing attorney, you can always get someone to sign off/verify/authenticate anything (so called "expert witnesses" who will say whatever you want). |
In this case you have 30 reps signing off, and 29 of them didn't get the #1 pick.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Remember when Arthur Andersen was a well-respected accounting firm?
The probabilities of the NBA lottery being rigged are low, but as AP stated, it's not impossible to do so.
While it's probably coincidence that Clev. happened to get 3 #1 picks in the past 4 years after LeBron left (and was the main reason why he came back), or that Anthony Davis magically appeared after the team was sold, I can understand the angst folks have towards the NBA.
As I've learned as a practicing attorney, you can always get someone to sign off/verify/authenticate anything (so called "expert witnesses" who will say whatever you want). |
In this case you have 30 reps signing off, and 29 of them didn't get the #1 pick. |
By "signing off" meant the expert witness, or the accountant. But again, I don't think it's rigged, saying I wouldn't be surprised if they did it.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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youcantguardme
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 1114
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| BleedP&G wrote: | | It amazes me that it takes Business Insider to actually make this point in print. ESPN is willing to dedicate space and resources to a hatchet piece on Kobe with no legit sources and really nothing new of consequence. Yet they cannot take the time to investigate " one of the strangest, most controversial decisions in recent league history." Everyone in sports media loves to talk about the troubles with the Busses or Kobe, but no one is willing to tackle what would be a huge investigative piece in any other industry. |
You are correct about ESPN, there is an organized effort to discredit the Lakers and Kobe. Why are they even talking about Kobe and the Lakers when they have two wins? Isn't it odd that he is passing Michael in the next few weeks?
As for Stern's veto. The veto was a shot at the Buss family and the Lakers basically saying that while you have Kobe, you aren't winning again. I have no doubt that with Paul and what ever we could have got for Bynum that the Lakers would have another ring. This mag is right about the trade, the Lakers trade was much better for the Pelicans not only now in hindsight but also at the time it was - there isn't a question. |
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l4kerz
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Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 1572
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Just make it right by swapping CP3 and Gordon back. |
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Peoples Hernandez
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Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 3727
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| youcantguardme wrote: | | BleedP&G wrote: | | It amazes me that it takes Business Insider to actually make this point in print. ESPN is willing to dedicate space and resources to a hatchet piece on Kobe with no legit sources and really nothing new of consequence. Yet they cannot take the time to investigate " one of the strangest, most controversial decisions in recent league history." Everyone in sports media loves to talk about the troubles with the Busses or Kobe, but no one is willing to tackle what would be a huge investigative piece in any other industry. |
You are correct about ESPN, there is an organized effort to discredit the Lakers and Kobe. Why are they even talking about Kobe and the Lakers when they have two wins? Isn't it odd that he is passing Michael in the next few weeks?
As for Stern's veto. The veto was a shot at the Buss family and the Lakers basically saying that while you have Kobe, you aren't winning again. I have no doubt that with Paul and what ever we could have got for Bynum that the Lakers would have another ring. This mag is right about the trade, the Lakers trade was much better for the Pelicans not only now in hindsight but also at the time it was - there isn't a question. |
Which is what frightens me the most about this league going forward. Who's to say these fruits running the outfit are not in the business of completely killing our franchise forever? I can't trust them again, being a fan of the Lakers. Hell the bolded quote above has me feeling like that they'll make sure we suck for 100 years because of the Small-Market Mafia clique of owners that has formed recently and their feelings. This BS is deeper than just the Veto for me at this stage.
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Whenever the Lakers benefit all of a sudden rules need to be changed and trades need to be blocked.
"It's all entertainment" -Rasheed Wallace |
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Who Takes The Blame
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 733
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Stern and the NBA owned the hornets at that time so they had the rights. We need to move on |
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