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rock0100
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 Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | rock0100 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a sinking ship. Rather than bailing water out of the ship, you let it sink.
Then you use insurance proceeds (draft pick) and buy a new and better ship. |
Except for you are letting the ship sink with the most priceless diamond on board.
I had no idea Kobe would come back so strong. Tanking while he is still here is a horrible idea. Last year he was hurt and i was all about tanking. This year, we are on the cusp of being a pretty good team just because he is playing at such a high level. |
No, you take that diamond off the ship. How do you propose to salvage this ship? There isn't a way with the lack of assets we have.
We are absolutely not on the cusp of a good team. We beat 2 teams that didn't have multiple starters. This is likely a team that wins in the 20s (while trying its best). We don't have the pieces on the court to succeed. |
If you are tanking with Kobe on the team, then technically you are not taking him off the ship. If you trade Kobe for best available assets, then yes you have taken the diamond off the ship.
If Kobes staying we should see what we can get with our expiring contracts (Nash and Lin), Houstons pick and even removing the top 5 protection for Phoenix this year if they want to get involved.
If we are tanking, then trade Kobe for expiring ks and whatever assets you can so that we have $45 million in cap space this summer to go along with a top 5 pick. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Unlike Philly, the Lakers don't have other teams to subsidize their tank, they are the ones doing the subsidizing. Kobe stays this year and next to keep the money rolling in.
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rock0100
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Unlike Philly, the Lakers don't have other teams to subsidize their tank, they are the ones doing the subsidizing. Kobe stays this year and next to keep the money rolling in. |
If the Lakers lose money by not having Kobe, do they not get a piece of the shared profits?
The Rest of the NBA needs to know what it is to have an irrelevant Laker team with no stars. The rest of the NBA teams did have a hand in this anyway by vetoing the CP3 deal. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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You can lose money and still be profitable. Just not as profitable.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| rock0100 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | rock0100 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a sinking ship. Rather than bailing water out of the ship, you let it sink.
Then you use insurance proceeds (draft pick) and buy a new and better ship. |
Except for you are letting the ship sink with the most priceless diamond on board.
I had no idea Kobe would come back so strong. Tanking while he is still here is a horrible idea. Last year he was hurt and i was all about tanking. This year, we are on the cusp of being a pretty good team just because he is playing at such a high level. |
No, you take that diamond off the ship. How do you propose to salvage this ship? There isn't a way with the lack of assets we have.
We are absolutely not on the cusp of a good team. We beat 2 teams that didn't have multiple starters. This is likely a team that wins in the 20s (while trying its best). We don't have the pieces on the court to succeed. |
If you are tanking with Kobe on the team, then technically you are not taking him off the ship. If you trade Kobe for best available assets, then yes you have taken the diamond off the ship.
If Kobes staying we should see what we can get with our expiring contracts (Nash and Lin), Houstons pick and even removing the top 5 protection for Phoenix this year if they want to get involved.
If we are tanking, then trade Kobe for expiring ks and whatever assets you can so that we have $45 million in cap space this summer to go along with a top 5 pick. |
The Front Office is using Kobe as an ATM this season. The way they constructed this roster, it points to a stealth tank. The last thing they are doing is what you've suggested. The fruit of liquidating assets right now (and now way PHX does what you suggest) is 3-4 extra meaningless wins.
Kobe has a no-trade, and he knows his legacy will take a major tarnish if after agreeing to his Extension he asks for a trade.
So in sum, Lakers continue making $$$ off Kobe. Kobe chases scoring records on a woeful team. In 2015, we hopefully re-stock and 2016 we make a splash.
Or, you can win 3-4 more games.
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thedude1977
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | golaker wrote: | What happened to our 1st round pick, franchise player this year? Broke his leg 1st game in.
You don't intentionally lose games all year long banking on ONE unproven kid who's never played a single nba game. |
Oh wait ... I hadn't heard that Randle retired. |
Or that there was some kind of causal relationship between being newly drafted from the top of your class and getting injured. Otherwise we shouldn't make trades either, since veteran NBA players would be at risk of becoming injured too. Yup, no recent history with that happening to the Lakers. |
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SGVL1
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Not to mention flipping said top 5 pick for a veteran like Boston did in 2007. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| SGVL1 wrote: | | Not to mention flipping said top 5 pick for a veteran like Boston did in 2007. |
Why not keep a cheap rookie AND use cap space to get a veteran? No sense in losing that cheap rookie unless you're talking about a top 10 player.
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DALAKERSRULE
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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all this tank talk is crap. what if you do get a top 5 , but he is a bust or he suffers an injury early ...then what ?????
lets play to win every game....!!
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KBH
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| This is one of the dumbest thread titles of the year. And we've had some doozies. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLand247 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | The Lakers aren't gonna tank.... once the wins pile up... all the pro-tankers will disappear from LG... so there is nothing to worry about. I understand the concept of thinking for the future... but teams like GS were in the phrase of making future moves and it took them decades to become a contender again.... you people don't understand what it means to have a opportunity when it's in front of you. |
Aren't you a Pro-Tanker? Remember what you said that New Orleans would trade Anthony Davis for the overall #1 pick this year. Need a link reminder? |
He also said we'd start 10-0. There are politicians who don't flip flop as much. lol |
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kobetimeeverytime
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Joined: 24 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| leor_77 wrote: | The thing with drafting/tanking is that you might (and by might, I mean you have a very slim chance) get a good player if you tank.
On the other hand, you can also sign players, and in general, they will gravitate towards good situations. You don't have to be a championship contender, but if they see that you have a good culture, that the team competes every (or most) night(s), they will be more likely to sign. |
i can guarantee you those considerations are very low in free agents order of concerns. |
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kobetimeeverytime
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| DALAKERSRULE wrote: | all this tank talk is crap. what if you do get a top 5 , but he is a bust or he suffers an injury early ...then what ?????
lets play to win every game....!! |
you are in the same position as you would have been without the top 5 pick.
are you dense or do you not realize that you just proved even in the very worst case scenario tanking still weakly dominates not tanking |
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KBH
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | DocK36 wrote: | | Blake Griffin also cracked his knee cap and was out for the year during his rookie season, how did he turned out? If it wasn't for him, no way in hell would CP3 resign with the Clippers. |
Yeah... and for all the hype and hoopla Griffin got coming out of the draft.... the Clippers still haven't won crap.... the pro-tankers on this board are crickets and don't have the logic/intelligence to understand the team concept... besides thinking... it's fun to throw games away. |
| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | Not to drag any feet... but Imagine how much flexibility we would have if we did end up with the 1st pick.... I can see a team like the Pelicans offering Anthony Davis for the 1st round pick and the rights to Okafor.....
I would diff do Davis for Okafor..... that is why we need to lose all of our games. |
Please stop. Please. |
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| My analogy is no different then pro-tankers talking about throwing every game away just to get some guy from college who isn't proven in the NBA... I'm not a pro-tanker but I rather see the Lakers try in games rather then quit like losers. |
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DALAKERSRULE
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| kobetimeeverytime wrote: | | DALAKERSRULE wrote: | all this tank talk is crap. what if you do get a top 5 , but he is a bust or he suffers an injury early ...then what ?????
lets play to win every game....!! |
you are in the same position as you would have been without the top 5 pick.
are you dense or do you not realize that you just proved even in the very worst case scenario tanking still weakly dominates not tanking |
dense , nah Brah..I consider myself old skool, I never believe in playing a professional sport to lose games on purpose..... are you serious when you think that a team should play to lose ? what kind of mentality is that ??
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Saying that the Lakers should tank for a high draft pick is equal to saying that a person should cut off a leg to get good parking. |
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| Here's the thing though, this Lakers squad, without Randle and Nash, simply isn't good enough to make the playoffs. If you aren't going to make the playoffs, your better off getting a high pick than winning 35 games and getting no pick. The Lakers aren't so much tanking as they are dealing with the reality of a rebuild. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | DocK36 wrote: | | Blake Griffin also cracked his knee cap and was out for the year during his rookie season, how did he turned out? If it wasn't for him, no way in hell would CP3 resign with the Clippers. |
Yeah... and for all the hype and hoopla Griffin got coming out of the draft.... the Clippers still haven't won crap.... the pro-tankers on this board are crickets and don't have the logic/intelligence to understand the team concept... besides thinking... it's fun to throw games away. |
| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | Not to drag any feet... but Imagine how much flexibility we would have if we did end up with the 1st pick.... I can see a team like the Pelicans offering Anthony Davis for the 1st round pick and the rights to Okafor.....
I would diff do Davis for Okafor..... that is why we need to lose all of our games. |
Please stop. Please. |
The only thing that I can think of is that a Moderator or similar uses that account to have some laughs. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| SGVL1 wrote: | | Not to mention flipping said top 5 pick for a veteran like Boston did in 2007. |
Boston was a player or two away from winning, the Lakers are 5-6 players away.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| DALAKERSRULE wrote: | all this tank talk is crap. what if you do get a top 5 , but he is a bust or he suffers an injury early ...then what ?????
lets play to win every game....!! |
What if Skylab falls from the sky and hits you in the head? Do you stay inside just to avoid that? What if the CBA favors teams who have a couple of their starters on rookie contracts?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| DALAKERSRULE wrote: | | kobetimeeverytime wrote: | | DALAKERSRULE wrote: | all this tank talk is crap. what if you do get a top 5 , but he is a bust or he suffers an injury early ...then what ?????
lets play to win every game....!! |
you are in the same position as you would have been without the top 5 pick.
are you dense or do you not realize that you just proved even in the very worst case scenario tanking still weakly dominates not tanking |
dense , nah Brah..I consider myself old skool, I never believe in playing a professional sport to lose games on purpose..... are you serious when you think that a team should play to lose ? what kind of mentality is that ?? |
I haven't seen any players playing to lose.
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jlinfan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| magickobe24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a sinking ship. Rather than bailing water out of the ship, you let it sink.
Then you use insurance proceeds (draft pick) and buy a new and better ship. |
This^^ |
The fallacy is that your not guaranteed a new and better ship. Sure it is a means to an end but not the only means.
Its not like the marshmallow test where you forgo reward now for guaranteed better reward later. Lakers are using Rockets rebuild as a model (not 100%) which seems more logical to me. Use rentals and maintain cap space until you land the right pieces to build around.
I don't think we are stealth tanking as we are not going to finish bottem four and I don't agree with OP about fandom as we are all in the same family just that we disagree on things. But I do agree that tanking is the easy way out and not what we should be striving for. |
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KBH
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Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | My analogy is no different then pro-tankers talking about throwing every game away just to get some guy from college who isn't proven in the NBA... I'm not a pro-tanker but I rather see the Lakers try in games rather then quit like losers. |
Anthony Davis. |
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LakerLand247
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Joined: 26 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | My analogy is no different then pro-tankers talking about throwing every game away just to get some guy from college who isn't proven in the NBA... I'm not a pro-tanker but I rather see the Lakers try in games rather then quit like losers. |
Anthony Davis. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with OP
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