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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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It means something, but it doesn't mean everything.
For reference, Don Nelson has more wins than any other head coach. That means something, but everything it means not. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Why is Kobe passing MJ so important? |
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Magic2Kobe wrote: | Who cares?
It's a cumulative all-time record and a regular season record at that. Even when Kobe passes Jordan, he'll still be behind Karl Malone, a noted choker.
Jordan still has a much better PPG and FG%, so it's not like Kobe will have proven himself to be a better scorer.
The record is utterly meaningless, especially since it's only a regular season accomplishment, something us Lakers fans have never cared about.
Kobe is killing himself pursuing it. I don't get it. I think Kobe could possibly be an effective player at 39-40, so why doesn't he limit himself to 25-28 minutes per game in these down years (which would STILL get him past Jordan) in the interest of being fresh in a couple years when the Lakers can possibly put a decent team together, and Kobe finishes his career at least in the playoffs, even if it's as an 8th seed (this franchise is years from championship contention, so there will no one last run for Kobe, but at least he'll bow out gracefully from the NBA in the post-season rather than on a lottery team, even if he's in a 6th man role at that time).
Still better than chucking for meaningless records. |
Wouldn't you rather be 3rd at something than 4th? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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aachan Star Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2010 Posts: 1863
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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When you have the career Kobe has, MVP, Finals MVP's, Rings, so on and so forth, the only thing left to do (No foreseeable Rings in the future) is to move up on the All-Time scoring list. And when you're passing All-Time Greats in the process, then yeah, it's a big deal. Passing any of the greats in any statistical measure should be commended. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Why is Kobe passing MJ so important? |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Magic2Kobe wrote: | Who cares?
It's a cumulative all-time record and a regular season record at that. Even when Kobe passes Jordan, he'll still be behind Karl Malone, a noted choker.
Jordan still has a much better PPG and FG%, so it's not like Kobe will have proven himself to be a better scorer.
The record is utterly meaningless, especially since it's only a regular season accomplishment, something us Lakers fans have never cared about.
Kobe is killing himself pursuing it. I don't get it. I think Kobe could possibly be an effective player at 39-40, so why doesn't he limit himself to 25-28 minutes per game in these down years (which would STILL get him past Jordan) in the interest of being fresh in a couple years when the Lakers can possibly put a decent team together, and Kobe finishes his career at least in the playoffs, even if it's as an 8th seed (this franchise is years from championship contention, so there will no one last run for Kobe, but at least he'll bow out gracefully from the NBA in the post-season rather than on a lottery team, even if he's in a 6th man role at that time).
Still better than chucking for meaningless records. |
Wouldn't you rather be 3rd at something than 4th? |
Do you win anything for being 3rd? With 1st at least you get the title of being the all-time scoring leader. I personally think he's a better scorer and player than Karl Malone even though Malone will likely stay at #2 before Kobe retires. I don't see what the numbers prove, unless its just a Jordan thing. |
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pjiddy Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 29016
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it budges anyone from their respective position in the Kobe vs. MJ debate. MJ's place on the list speaks to his all-time greatness (for me, anyway). He and Kobe are the two greatest scoring guards of all time, but MJ got there about 5k minutes sooner. But Kobe will pass him and probably put a couple thousand points between them. That speaks to Kobe's longevity, which might forever be unequaled among wings. Although I could see Durant playing until he's 40...
I know Kobe has hinted he'll retire at the end of his contract, but it would be cool if he came back for one more year (~15 million?), play an even 20 seasons for one franchise, and put up another 1500 points and possibly edge past Malone. How awesome would it be to have the #1 and #2 all-time scorers be Lakers? Actually, we'd have top 3 since Malone was a Laker... |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Lakerfan 4 Life wrote: | Even if Kobe passes Michael shooting 50% from the field, Kobe is still gonna be at least 2nd greatest of all time. | Kobe is not the 2nd best, more like top 10. Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, and Wilt were better players during their era. |
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Rek Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 2227 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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To the OP -
There's nothing important about it in the slightest. Absolutely nothing.
There's just a lot of very small minded basketball fans that just can't seem to wrap their mind around the fact that they have been privileged to witness some of the very best talent to ever grace the floor. I just recognize them for what they are and am appreciative that I've been blessed to see them both play live several times in the playoffs.
Additionally, a lot of fans highlight their ignorance of the game when they completely discount greats like Magic, Oscar, Wilt, Bird, Kareem and several others. If you really think that hoops comes down to a simple debate about MJ and Kobe, then you're either very young or just insanely jaded in your perspective of the game. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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It changes nothing in terms of the MJ/Kobe debate, but that doesn't mean it isn't an accomplishment most NBA players can't even dream of achieving. |
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cthroatgtr Star Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 1375
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Because he can't catch him in championships, might as well pass him in scoring. |
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R-Tistic Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Los Angeles (Western & Florence)
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Moonknight wrote: | Kobe plays at least 4 more years than MJ? Of course he should be able to score more than MJ. I don't get why anyone would think that's a big deal. |
Are y'all serious????
If that's the case, Kevin Willis should be the leading scorer in history!! |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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R-Tistic wrote: | Moonknight wrote: | Kobe plays at least 4 more years than MJ? Of course he should be able to score more than MJ. I don't get why anyone would think that's a big deal. |
Are y'all serious????
If that's the case, Kevin Willis should be the leading scorer in history!! |
Who is the better regular season coach? Popovich, Phil Jackson, Don Nelson. |
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R-Tistic Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Los Angeles (Western & Florence)
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I know he's been frustrating, but lately, this board feels more like a Clippers or Celtics fan board when it comes to Kobe.
For those who say it's never mentioned, not important...lies. To say we never hear that Kareem is the all time leading scorer is a lie...literally every time Kareem is presented in a historical light, they ALWAYS mention that.
Second, it's Sports...y'all act like record chasing is something new....and is if ALL stats are dissected in the way that Kobe's stats are. "He shot more shots" "He played more games" "He is chucking up more shots." When the reality is, seeing him on that list above Jordan will not have any sort of asterisk next to it.
I mean, I can go on and on, but I'll chill. I just think it's comical to really question the importance, especially knowing how competitive Kobe has been for his entire career. The day we drafted him, if you told me he'd score more career points than Jordan, I'd laugh hysterically at you. |
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Oliver Reed Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2014 Posts: 2626 Location: Globo Gym
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing more comical then being 3rd all time in scoring is the fact that some people saying it means nothing and almost detailing it as Kobe hasn't done jack in his career. I am amazed at the hate Kobe gets and I thought it was bad a few years ago. People find ANY reason to dilute, criticize or bring down Kobe no matter what he does. |
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R-Tistic Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Los Angeles (Western & Florence)
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | R-Tistic wrote: | Moonknight wrote: | Kobe plays at least 4 more years than MJ? Of course he should be able to score more than MJ. I don't get why anyone would think that's a big deal. |
Are y'all serious????
If that's the case, Kevin Willis should be the leading scorer in history!! |
Who is the better regular season coach? Popovich, Phil Jackson, Don Nelson. |
True, Don Nelson > Kobe.
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R-Tistic Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Los Angeles (Western & Florence)
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Oliver Reed wrote: | The only thing more comical then being 3rd all time in scoring is the fact that some people saying it means nothing and almost detailing it as Kobe hasn't done jack in his career. I am amazed at the hate Kobe gets and I thought it was bad a few years ago. People find ANY reason to dilute, criticize or bring down Kobe no matter what he does. |
Seriously though. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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R-Tistic wrote: | Oliver Reed wrote: | The only thing more comical then being 3rd all time in scoring is the fact that some people saying it means nothing and almost detailing it as Kobe hasn't done jack in his career. I am amazed at the hate Kobe gets and I thought it was bad a few years ago. People find ANY reason to dilute, criticize or bring down Kobe no matter what he does. |
Seriously though. |
_________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Cool426 Sixth Man
Joined: 02 Jun 2013 Posts: 80
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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I still remember an interview by a 19-year old Kobe. He wanted to be better than MJ, score more points than MJ and win more rings than MJ.
LOL One out of 3 ain't bad.
The only thing Lakers fans (at least for me) really cared about was rings. Everything else was and still is secondary. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Cool426 wrote: | I still remember an interview by a 19-year old Kobe. He wanted to be better than MJ, score more points than MJ and win more rings than MJ.
LOL 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
The only thing Lakers fans (at least for me) really cared about was rings. Everything else was and still is secondary. |
Fixed it for you. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Oliver Reed wrote: | The only thing more comical then being 3rd all time in scoring is the fact that some people saying it means nothing and almost detailing it as Kobe hasn't done jack in his career. I am amazed at the hate Kobe gets and I thought it was bad a few years ago. People find ANY reason to dilute, criticize or bring down Kobe no matter what he does. |
I don't think anyone is saying it means nothing. It's a great achievement but you have to look at it in context. Kobe will have played 25% more games to get to the same mark as Jordan.
That's why I say, the mark doesn't change anything (for me anyway). Kobe's place in history, on my GOAT list, isn't going to change whether he takes 25% more games to score more than MJ, 50% more games, or even if he has a career ending injury before hitting the mark, he will still be one of the GOAT of all-time. (FWIW, I have Kobe at 6th best to ever play the game).
A ring changes the discussion. Passing MJ on the scoring list, for me, doesn't. But again, that's not to say it means absolutely nothing. It's nice. |
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P.K. Retired Number
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 29641
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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well, after the Denver game It'll be 9 more games or so until he passes MJ
then I guess we'll find out _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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ppineda Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Posts: 701
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | Cool426 wrote: | I still remember an interview by a 19-year old Kobe. He wanted to be better than MJ, score more points than MJ and win more rings than MJ.
LOL 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
The only thing Lakers fans (at least for me) really cared about was rings. Everything else was and still is secondary. |
Fixed it for you. |
If only fixing reality was as easy as your nonsense. You change all the posts you want, but it won't make it true. |
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Moonknight Sixth Man
Joined: 27 Oct 2014 Posts: 49
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
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R-Tistic wrote: | Moonknight wrote: | Kobe plays at least 4 more years than MJ? Of course he should be able to score more than MJ. I don't get why anyone would think that's a big deal. |
Are y'all serious????
If that's the case, Kevin Willis should be the leading scorer in history!! |
If people want to have Kobe and MJ in the same discussion then taking 4 more years to score as many points should not be that big of a deal. On the contrary by making a big deal out of it will only speak to MJ greatness. 4 years of scoring around 2400 is almost another 10,000 points for MJ. |
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leor_77 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 21920
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: |
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It's a pretty nice accomplishment, although it probably has a ton to do with just longevity and staying healthy, but I really wish he wouldn't pass it by shooting 35% from the field, playing on a bottom-feeder NBA team.
Instead of him just being praised, when he passes it, many will talk about the current situation (ie. bad team, and his inefficient shooting). |
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Staccatos Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002 Posts: 2416
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
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When it happens, it will be a reason to celebrate.
And for this season, there are going to be few of chances for that. |
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Kobeling Sixth Man
Joined: 20 Nov 2014 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | Cool426 wrote: | I still remember an interview by a 19-year old Kobe. He wanted to be better than MJ, score more points than MJ and win more rings than MJ.
LOL 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
The only thing Lakers fans (at least for me) really cared about was rings. Everything else was and still is secondary. |
Fixed it for you. |
There you are! |
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