Lakers up by a few points. Kobe decides that shooting 9 for 16 is not good.
He needs to put up more shots, if they are gonna win. it will be by his heroric hands.
Kobe brings up the ball, calls iso, use up 20 seconds and shoots, bricks.
Nuggets use up 20 secs, shoots.
Kobe calls for another iso, everyone spreads out, pounds the ball for 20 seconds, shoots, brick.
Nuggets use up 20 seconds shoots.
Kobe iso, use up 20 seconds shoots, brick.
Nuggets use up 20 seconds shoots.
Kobe iso, use up 20 seconds shoots, brick.
Nuggets use up 20 seconds shoots.
Kobe iso, use up 20 seconds shoots, brick.
Thats 3 Mins folks, Game over.
0 for 5 for Kobe.
Never passes it once.
No one else touches the ball.
Seriously lost some respect for Kobe last night. I would blindly defend him in the past but now I see no justification for his selfish play. Nobody will follow a leader that dominates the ball but in turn expects his teammates to play like all stars. It's been very frustrating seeing Kobe NOT pass the ball. When he does pass it's a last resort type of jump pass that gets picked off. I can't fathom how someone with Kobe's knowledge can play so freakin STUPID.
Except for the fact that he missed the shots I don't see much in that sequence that differs from the last 4 years and parts of his career. It just strikes me as hypocritical to call it selfish now but "clutch" and heroic when it worked. Yes, it failed plenty back then too.
The difference between now and then is night and day. He's older now and he's not capable of doing it anymore. We all can see it, so why continue to do it? Why expect a 36 year old coming off 2 major surgeries to be the same player as before? I don't care if he's Kobe Bryant, we're all human and our bodies fail us.
He'll have at least one game this season when all those shots fall, and no one will remember an ugly Sunday game against the Nugs. TWC highlights and promo material for the year.
Exactly right and in that respect, maybe this gameplan makes sense. He was 0-5 down the stretch in the 4th. If he's 1-5 or 1-6, they win and it's known as another magnificent clutch performance on his resume. The unsuccessful attempts preceding the game winner would be forgotten. The media headlines would be that Kobe is still Kobe, Stephen A and Skip would dedicate the first take show to Kobe and proclaiming that he is still the clutchest player in basketball, and all would be right in Lakerland. I guess it was worth a shot. A team win would have been nice but it would have been forgotten quickly.
Sadly, teams welcome Kobe ISOing or shooting a high volume of shots. I think it's part of their game plan to let him go off and contain (the already containable) teammates even further.
Shaw must be thinking, if every team plays like this, it'd be an easy gig. This Kobe-offense is so predictable. Kobe has the ball he'll shoot it 100% of the time, no matter where he is. He only passes when there's a double team. Any genius will know let Kobe shoot his 38%. The team shoots 46% when Kobe isn't shooting. Hence Don't double Kobe. let him lose the game by himself. No other Lakers need to be involved.
Lakers up by a few points. Kobe decides that shooting 9 for 16 is not good.
He needs to put up more shots, if they are gonna win. it will be by his heroric hands.
Kobe brings up the ball, calls iso, use up 20 seconds and shoots, bricks.
Nuggets use up 20 secs, shoots.
Kobe calls for another iso, everyone spreads out, pounds the ball for 20 seconds, shoots, brick.
Nuggets use up 20 seconds shoots.
Kobe iso, use up 20 seconds shoots, brick.
Nuggets use up 20 seconds shoots.
Kobe iso, use up 20 seconds shoots, brick.
Nuggets use up 20 seconds shoots.
Kobe iso, use up 20 seconds shoots, brick.
Thats 3 Mins folks, Game over.
0 for 5 for Kobe.
Never passes it once.
No one else touches the ball.
Seriously lost some respect for Kobe last night. I would blindly defend him in the past but now I see no justification for his selfish play. Nobody will follow a leader that dominates the ball but in turn expects his teammates to play like all stars. It's been very frustrating seeing Kobe NOT pass the ball. When he does pass it's a last resort type of jump pass that gets picked off. I can't fathom how someone with Kobe's knowledge can play so freakin STUPID.
Except for the fact that he missed the shots I don't see much in that sequence that differs from the last 4 years and parts of his career. It just strikes me as hypocritical to call it selfish now but "clutch" and heroic when it worked. Yes, it failed plenty back then too.
The difference between now and then is night and day. He's older now and he's not capable of doing it anymore. We all can see it, so why continue to do it? Why expect a 36 year old coming off 2 major surgeries to be the same player as before? I don't care if he's Kobe Bryant, we're all human and our bodies fail us.
He'll have at least one game this season when all those shots fall, and no one will remember an ugly Sunday game against the Nugs. TWC highlights and promo material for the year.
Exactly right and in that respect, maybe this gameplan makes sense. He was 0-5 down the stretch in the 4th. If he's 1-5 or 1-6, they win and it's known as another magnificent clutch performance on his resume. The unsuccessful attempts preceding the game winner would be forgotten. The media headlines would be that Kobe is still Kobe, Stephen A and Skip would dedicate the first take show to Kobe and proclaiming that he is still the clutchest player in basketball, and all would be right in Lakerland. I guess it was worth a shot. A team win would have been nice but it would have been forgotten quickly.
You guys would both be right if the Lakers had a winning record and Kobe putting up a donut in the fourth quarter was an anomaly. Since both of these are not the case I don't think one clutch performance will outweigh what has been a subpar season for the team. The fact of the matter is no matter how good Kobe is anyone that has played organized basketball will know that passing the ball around gives you the best chance to win this is a fact. What Kobe is doing is not conducive to a strong team. These guys are all professionals and the fact that Kobe doesn't "trust" them speaks volumes to his selfish attitude. It is what it is, Kobe can't see past himself and I'm just going to try to enjoy watching me force fadeaway after fadeaway but it gets harder every day.
You guys would both be right if the Lakers had a winning record and Kobe putting up a donut in the fourth quarter was an anomaly. Since both of these are not the case I don't think one clutch performance will outweigh what has been a subpar season for the team. The fact of the matter is no matter how good Kobe is anyone that has played organized basketball will know that passing the ball around gives you the best chance to win this is a fact. What Kobe is doing is not conducive to a strong team. These guys are all professionals and the fact that Kobe doesn't "trust" them speaks volumes to his selfish attitude. It is what it is, Kobe can't see past himself and I'm just going to try to enjoy watching me force fadeaway after fadeaway but it gets harder every day.
I was just talking about what is best for ratings and the celebration of Kobe. Going to Kobe predictably on every play has always been a low percentage strategy and it's even worse now. For winning games its not good but the buzz generated from one Kobe gamewinner would be much bigger than if they won 4 out of 5 and remained under .500 overall. Kobe moves the needle. There are so many people that just want to see him do well.
You guys would both be right if the Lakers had a winning record and Kobe putting up a donut in the fourth quarter was an anomaly. Since both of these are not the case I don't think one clutch performance will outweigh what has been a subpar season for the team. The fact of the matter is no matter how good Kobe is anyone that has played organized basketball will know that passing the ball around gives you the best chance to win this is a fact. What Kobe is doing is not conducive to a strong team. These guys are all professionals and the fact that Kobe doesn't "trust" them speaks volumes to his selfish attitude. It is what it is, Kobe can't see past himself and I'm just going to try to enjoy watching me force fadeaway after fadeaway but it gets harder every day.
I was just talking about what is best for ratings and the celebration of Kobe. Going to Kobe predictably on every play has always been a low percentage strategy and it's even worse now. For winning games its not good but the buzz generated from one Kobe gamewinner would be much bigger than if they won 4 out of 5 and remained under .500 overall. Kobe moves the needle. There are so many people that just want to see him do well.
I had the same thought, but after watching him jack up 30 shots a game with no ball movement, it's been unbearable to watch. I'm not sure who these "fans" are that want him to keep shooting. It's not good basketball, it just isn't.
iso basketball is old school basketball... back when the NBA still had the illegal defense in effect.
Sure. But not 20 times in a row down the stretch when you keep bricking
why even bother bring up this, we've seen this for the last 10 years. when games getting close, it's Kobe iso time, not even the great Phil Jackson can draw up any other plays other than give the ball to Kobe and get the F out of the way.
You guys would both be right if the Lakers had a winning record and Kobe putting up a donut in the fourth quarter was an anomaly. Since both of these are not the case I don't think one clutch performance will outweigh what has been a subpar season for the team. The fact of the matter is no matter how good Kobe is anyone that has played organized basketball will know that passing the ball around gives you the best chance to win this is a fact. What Kobe is doing is not conducive to a strong team. These guys are all professionals and the fact that Kobe doesn't "trust" them speaks volumes to his selfish attitude. It is what it is, Kobe can't see past himself and I'm just going to try to enjoy watching me force fadeaway after fadeaway but it gets harder every day.
I was just talking about what is best for ratings and the celebration of Kobe. Going to Kobe predictably on every play has always been a low percentage strategy and it's even worse now. For winning games its not good but the buzz generated from one Kobe gamewinner would be much bigger than if they won 4 out of 5 and remained under .500 overall. Kobe moves the needle. There are so many people that just want to see him do well.
You are seriously misguided if you think fans would rather see a Kobe game winner and lose the next 10 games than see the Lakers win more.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject:
where24happens wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Quote:
You guys would both be right if the Lakers had a winning record and Kobe putting up a donut in the fourth quarter was an anomaly. Since both of these are not the case I don't think one clutch performance will outweigh what has been a subpar season for the team. The fact of the matter is no matter how good Kobe is anyone that has played organized basketball will know that passing the ball around gives you the best chance to win this is a fact. What Kobe is doing is not conducive to a strong team. These guys are all professionals and the fact that Kobe doesn't "trust" them speaks volumes to his selfish attitude. It is what it is, Kobe can't see past himself and I'm just going to try to enjoy watching me force fadeaway after fadeaway but it gets harder every day.
I was just talking about what is best for ratings and the celebration of Kobe. Going to Kobe predictably on every play has always been a low percentage strategy and it's even worse now. For winning games its not good but the buzz generated from one Kobe gamewinner would be much bigger than if they won 4 out of 5 and remained under .500 overall. Kobe moves the needle. There are so many people that just want to see him do well.
You are seriously misguided if you think fans would rather see a Kobe game winner and lose the next 10 games than see the Lakers win more.
Count me in the misguided then. I've had too many discussions with fans (mostly in the live game threads) who flat out admit they only watch this team because of Kobe.
"Kobe had a chance to win it at the end. That's all you can ask for."
Last edited by greenfrog on Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Every team in the NBA runs a lot of ISO plays for their superstar or superstars. However to do is again and again and not change things is down right idiotic.
I'm not sure what happened yesterday since it was the first game i missed this regular season. Did we see a lot of consecutive ISO plays?
Wouldn't shock me because it seems Byron practically was brought in or chosen by Kobe to let Kobe do whatever the hell he wants and run the team however the hell he wants.
Even greats like Kobe, Jordan etc. need a system and team ball mixed in with their iso plays.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Every team in the NBA runs a lot of ISO plays for their superstar or superstars. However to do is again and again and not change things is down right idiotic.
I'm not sure what happened yesterday since it was the first game i missed this regular season. Did we see a lot of consecutive ISO plays?
Wouldn't shock me because it seems Byron practically was brought in or chosen by Kobe to let Kobe do whatever the hell he wants and run the team however the hell he wants.
Even greats like Kobe, Jordan etc. need a system and team ball mixed in with their iso plays.
Consecutive iso plays? Only about 15-20 of them. First for Kobe, then for Swaggy, then for Lin, then back to Kobe.
ISO basketball is Kobe basketball, so it's what we're running for the next two seasons.
Do you think if we keep playing this way, we can rule ourselves out of the FA market next year?
Who wants to come here for this? That's why I think Kobe playing for his own scoring accolades is a bad idea. We don't have assets to acquire talent. We have to do this thru free agency. Let's give the free agents a reason to want to come here.
I was in favor of it at first because I thought we needed the draft pick. But the law of unintended consequences... Boozer and Lin have already vocalized their frustration playing here. I know we're not going to cry a river when they leave next year, but it makes you wonder who really will want to come here. Randle will be a rookie/question mark, as will whomever we get in the draft. No one joins a team because of a promising draft pick. Hence why Lebron made the Cavs trade Wiggins (the #1 pick) to get Love.
The team is so clearly not a contender, there's no way a top tier talent like Gasol or Love comes here when they're still trying to win their first title. I can see maybe Rondo, but only if we offer him a max deal. He's already won a title and might be spiteful enough about not getting a max from the Celtics that he takes one here. But then what, he plays off-ball with Kobe? lol.
As bad as we are this year, we will be even worse next year. People hate on Lin and Boozer, but they're still average NBA players. Keep in mind neither signed here willfully. One was an amnesty claim and the other was traded. Mitch will have to find more guys like that next season--basically, guys brought here against their will, because this will be a terrible place to play for guys looking for new contracts the following year. Only guys getting paid and paid for a while (like Nick Young last year) will sign up. Are the Lakers going to go after midlevel talent like that or are they saving all their money for Summer of 201x? And remember, assuming we don't give our pick to the Suns this year, they get it next year, so there's no pick after next year's surely terrible season, unless it's a top 3 pick....which is certainly plausible.
You guys would both be right if the Lakers had a winning record and Kobe putting up a donut in the fourth quarter was an anomaly. Since both of these are not the case I don't think one clutch performance will outweigh what has been a subpar season for the team. The fact of the matter is no matter how good Kobe is anyone that has played organized basketball will know that passing the ball around gives you the best chance to win this is a fact. What Kobe is doing is not conducive to a strong team. These guys are all professionals and the fact that Kobe doesn't "trust" them speaks volumes to his selfish attitude. It is what it is, Kobe can't see past himself and I'm just going to try to enjoy watching me force fadeaway after fadeaway but it gets harder every day.
I was just talking about what is best for ratings and the celebration of Kobe. Going to Kobe predictably on every play has always been a low percentage strategy and it's even worse now. For winning games its not good but the buzz generated from one Kobe gamewinner would be much bigger than if they won 4 out of 5 and remained under .500 overall. Kobe moves the needle. There are so many people that just want to see him do well.
You are seriously misguided if you think fans would rather see a Kobe game winner and lose the next 10 games than see the Lakers win more.
That's not what I said at all. I wasn't talking about what Lakers fans want, I was talking about what would generate the most hype and ratings.
If the Lakers beat a bad Nuggets team playing team ball, they're still 4-10 with a slim chance of the playoffs. It wouldn't be much of a national story. If Kobe made a game winner it would have been the leading story on every sports show and talked about all season.
You guys would both be right if the Lakers had a winning record and Kobe putting up a donut in the fourth quarter was an anomaly. Since both of these are not the case I don't think one clutch performance will outweigh what has been a subpar season for the team. The fact of the matter is no matter how good Kobe is anyone that has played organized basketball will know that passing the ball around gives you the best chance to win this is a fact. What Kobe is doing is not conducive to a strong team. These guys are all professionals and the fact that Kobe doesn't "trust" them speaks volumes to his selfish attitude. It is what it is, Kobe can't see past himself and I'm just going to try to enjoy watching me force fadeaway after fadeaway but it gets harder every day.
I was just talking about what is best for ratings and the celebration of Kobe. Going to Kobe predictably on every play has always been a low percentage strategy and it's even worse now. For winning games its not good but the buzz generated from one Kobe gamewinner would be much bigger than if they won 4 out of 5 and remained under .500 overall. Kobe moves the needle. There are so many people that just want to see him do well.
You are seriously misguided if you think fans would rather see a Kobe game winner and lose the next 10 games than see the Lakers win more.
That's not what I said at all. I wasn't talking about what Lakers fans want, I was talking about what would generate the most hype and ratings.
If the Lakers beat a bad Nuggets team playing team ball, they're still 4-10 with a slim chance of the playoffs. It wouldn't be much of a national story. If Kobe made a game winner it would have been the leading story on every sports show and talked about all season.
So kobe didn't make the game winner now what? Lose - lose for everybody but at least with team ball there is a team culture that can attract a free agent because they like the way the players play as a team. With kobe ball, Lin walk, Boozer walks and we might even be worse next year, and kobe gets to gun again with nothing to show for it. Even kobe doesn't win in this scenario. _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
You guys would both be right if the Lakers had a winning record and Kobe putting up a donut in the fourth quarter was an anomaly. Since both of these are not the case I don't think one clutch performance will outweigh what has been a subpar season for the team. The fact of the matter is no matter how good Kobe is anyone that has played organized basketball will know that passing the ball around gives you the best chance to win this is a fact. What Kobe is doing is not conducive to a strong team. These guys are all professionals and the fact that Kobe doesn't "trust" them speaks volumes to his selfish attitude. It is what it is, Kobe can't see past himself and I'm just going to try to enjoy watching me force fadeaway after fadeaway but it gets harder every day.
I was just talking about what is best for ratings and the celebration of Kobe. Going to Kobe predictably on every play has always been a low percentage strategy and it's even worse now. For winning games its not good but the buzz generated from one Kobe gamewinner would be much bigger than if they won 4 out of 5 and remained under .500 overall. Kobe moves the needle. There are so many people that just want to see him do well.
You are seriously misguided if you think fans would rather see a Kobe game winner and lose the next 10 games than see the Lakers win more.
That's not what I said at all. I wasn't talking about what Lakers fans want, I was talking about what would generate the most hype and ratings.
If the Lakers beat a bad Nuggets team playing team ball, they're still 4-10 with a slim chance of the playoffs. It wouldn't be much of a national story. If Kobe made a game winner it would have been the leading story on every sports show and talked about all season.
So kobe didn't make the game winner now what? Lose - lose for everybody but at least with team ball there is a team culture that can attract a free agent because they like the way the players play as a team. With kobe ball, Lin walk, Boozer walks and we might even be worse next year, and kobe gets to gun again with nothing to show for it. Even kobe doesn't win in this scenario.
I totally agree. I don't see why anyone would want to play with him next year. There has always been that story that Kobe only wants to win his way and I think he's showing that it's true. He has always been all about himself, but in his prime, he was able to play his way AND win.
Replace Kobe with Meeks and our record is (bleep) better than it is right now. I'm not even counting the extra 20 (bleep) million we could of spend to go along with Meeks with Kobe's money.
iso basketball is old school basketball... back when the NBA still had the illegal defense in effect.
Sure. But not 20 times in a row down the stretch when you keep bricking
why even bother bring up this, we've seen this for the last 10 years. when games getting close, it's Kobe iso time, not even the great Phil Jackson can draw up any other plays other than give the ball to Kobe and get the F out of the way.
maybe because there's a difference between drawing up a last second play is different from an entire quarters worth of bricks. most people won't mind giving Kobe the last shot but every single freaking time down the "stretch" (which is like 6 minutes) is pun intended a "stretch".
Get the (bleep) out of the way!, 3 point, don't worry , I GOT THIS
Kobe was trying to lead by example. That's what leaders do. Unfortunately for him and for the team, clanking it after previously black hole mambaing it for the last 2+ minutes, non venomous at that, team mates tend to not believe in that kind of leadership. Some would call it a dictatorship, selfish. The woeful Overtime was precisely the result.
Luckily, for team tank, that Gallinari woulda-been game winner missed FT was only a scare, we all knew Kobe was going to clank that last shot. Fortunately, It looked like the Lakers 4, lost their desire to be out there with their "leader."
After the game, the leader said, "If anything, I didn't shoot/miss enough?" That's like saying I don't need you useless minions, go to your corner. Yup great leader. Despicable you, Kobe. You GOT it.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:48 am Post subject:
kfkilla wrote:
I'll say it....
Replace Kobe with Meeks and our record is (bleep) better than it is right now. I'm not even counting the extra 20 (bleep) million we could of spend to go along with Meeks with Kobe's money.
Not that I'm taking this statement seriously, but Meeks in Byron's offense would be another Ellington.
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 46878 Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:50 am Post subject:
kfkilla wrote:
I'll say it....
Replace Kobe with Meeks and our record is (bleep) better than it is right now. I'm not even counting the extra 20 (bleep) million we could of spend to go along with Meeks with Kobe's money.
By what? 2 games? Let's not get crazy here. If MDA was the coach, maybe you'd have a point. _________________ *sighs*
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:15 am Post subject:
fiendishoc wrote:
kfkilla wrote:
I'll say it....
Replace Kobe with Meeks and our record is (bleep) better than it is right now. I'm not even counting the extra 20 (bleep) million we could of spend to go along with Meeks with Kobe's money.
Not that I'm taking this statement seriously, but Meeks in Byron's offense would be another Ellington.
If Kobe's not in the equation it's probably unlikely that a coaching change would have been made. The schedule has been tough though. At least we'd lose by less.
Every team in the NBA runs a lot of ISO plays for their superstar or superstars. However to do is again and again and not change things is down right idiotic.
I'm not sure what happened yesterday since it was the first game i missed this regular season. Did we see a lot of consecutive ISO plays?
Wouldn't shock me because it seems Byron practically was brought in or chosen by Kobe to let Kobe do whatever the hell he wants and run the team however the hell he wants.
Even greats like Kobe, Jordan etc. need a system and team ball mixed in with their iso plays.
Yup.
Kobe playing iso isn't the problem. Kobe playing iso every single time over and over again so it's damn predictable is the problem.
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