Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:07 pm Post subject: I am sick of hearing about offense. We can't stop anybody when it counts
Again, PGs and bigs got whatever they wanted down the stretch. Somehow we weren't burned from 3 with all the open shots we gave up there. Defense is what we have to address... _________________ "My thirst for domination is fed only by the game. I refuse to get distracted by outside forces." - Kobe Bryant
Why not 2 or 3 stops? _________________ "My thirst for domination is fed only by the game. I refuse to get distracted by outside forces." - Kobe Bryant
OP is correct although it's our offense that prevented this win. Our defense equalized a lot of cold shooting. Against most teams we woulda been blown out by how poorly we shot in the 3rd and 4th.
That being said, defense will always have to be the main concern - but quite frankly I've seen more progress there than in offense. We're still going to iso no movement in close games in the end.
Our offense lost the last couple of games. You need to be able to score occasionally down the stretch because it's hard to stop the other team every time.
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: I am sick of hearing about offense. We can't stop anybody when it counts
Kobe2Clark wrote:
Again, PGs and bigs got whatever they wanted down the stretch. Somehow we weren't burned from 3 with all the open shots we gave up there. Defense is what we have to address...
Thank you for pointing out something that too many at this site don't seem to understand. Our PG and interior defense is pathetic. I'm not sure that it can be addressed with the players we have. I hope that I'm wrong.
Because this is the NBA, where all the worlds best basketball players play. anyone can get a shot off when ever they want. all you can do is to make it as tough as possible.
Because this is the NBA, where all the worlds best basketball players play. anyone can get a shot off when ever they want. all you can do is to make it as tough as possible.
But we consistently give up the easiest baskets I've ever seen _________________ "My thirst for domination is fed only by the game. I refuse to get distracted by outside forces." - Kobe Bryant
Sounds great in theory. But here's the problem. If you don't have defensive minded players you can scream about how you don't care about the offense until the cows come home but it won't matter. You know why? Because the players in question DO care about the offense.
We have mainly offensively motivated players. Which means to get them to play defense, they have to be involved offensively. You might not like that, and neither does Byron, but that's the way it is. Only guys inherently defensive minded can play d without being involved in the offense.
Just look at Kobe for instance. He sacrifices defensively to save himself for offense. He doesn't sacrifice his offense for defense. Why? He's offensive minded. So are most NBA players. Shaq was like that too. Feed the dog or it won't guard the house. Remember? He didn't say I'll guard the house so please feed me.
Tired of hearing people (including Scott) say they don't care about the offense. You should care. If you want defense.
Sounds great in theory. But here's the problem. If you don't have defensive minded players you can scream about how you don't care about the offense until the cows come home but it won't matter. You know why? Because the players in question DO care about the offense.
We have mainly offensively motivated players. Which means to get them to play defense, they have to be involved offensively. You might not like that, and neither does Byron, but that's the way it is. Only guys inherently defensive minded can play d without being involved in the offense.
Just look at Kobe for instance. He sacrifices defensively to save himself for offense. He doesn't sacrifice his offense for defense. Why? He's offensive minded. So are most NBA players. Shaq was like that too. Feed the dog or it won't guard the house. Remember? He didn't say I'll guard the house so please feed me.
Tired of hearing people (including Scott) say they don't care about the offense. You should care. If you want defense.
the defensive issues aren't necessarily man on man defense. a good offensive player will most likely defeat a good defensive player unless the defender is playing a team oriented defense.
what I saw yesterday was inability to get back on defense (Kobe several times, Boozer).
also, there was no understanding of what to do on a PNR defensively (bad coaching). lin gets picked but he proceeds to go after his man. the big shows which is good. so at least there is improvement here. the problem is that they do not get the pick player (i.e. Gasol yesterday) and the big is late getting back or there is no rotation. you could rotate a guy during the PNR to Gasol and force a long pass which gives your defense time to set.
there were a lot of standing around on defense watching or a lot of help defense that is only halfway. either commit to the double or don't.
take Kobe out of picture first.
Davis plays inside but isn't a big body so he can't really play center. Hill does not play inside. You can see he's got more offensive rebounds then defensive. Great from an offensive standpoint but poor on a defensive standpoint when you are trying to make a stop. Sacre is the biggest body you have but he in no way plays big at all. Boozer is actually 2nd but plays shorter as he doesn't really jump.
so you have no interior support for the guards who ARE going to get beat due to PNR and quality of PG/SG. At least Davis supplies some help defense with his length but he then leaves his man open. You can't address the perimeter without addressing the interior. Once you establish the interior defense, then your guards can play up to their man and not try to help out as much. there should be no slacking off. you can gamble a bit knowing you have help.
so you want to fix this team, there's no way to start but with the interior. throw whatever you can to a defensive big man. should have tried to get Asik. this team would be so much better with Asik. he doesn't need the ball offensively but will get his points on PNR as well as offensive rebounds. you can put Boozer next to him and at least know there's a big body but he would be perfect with Hill. You can play Davis off the bench and when you need a stop put Davis and Asik in at the same time. One player can make a difference and he doesn't have to be a superstar.
Unfortunately Asik is not going anywhere any time soon. He's found himself a home. Who else can you get?
I think the ultimate problem is the team and everyone knows we're tanking, but obviously we can't openly admit that. So the players know that whatever happens, most likely this is not a championship year. normally, on a lakers team, new incoming players get a dose of LA Lakers pressure that they've never had...
coming to a team that is ALWAYS winning rings
coming to a team of HoF players, multiple ones, all the time
fans like they've never seen before
one of very few places in the country where the team/org is bigger than the biggest star. perhaps the ONLY such nba team.
But this isn't here any longer. Players now coming here know they are probably not immediately winning a ring. So this all hinges on these kinds of environmental pressures. Only Kobe plays super intense, no matter what, because he's a freaking machine, and perhaps a little insane.
All I'm saying is that the magic is not here right now. i don't think it's that much of a coaching or strategy issue. i think these guys are good enough to win now, even a championship. And let me tell you...the fans are not helping at all. Yes, I mean some of us here now. So eager to talk about how old Kobe is, how bad he is, how he sucks and should just share the ball. How bad Byron is, how bad he sucks (even though when our last two coaches were sucking, we were criticizing management for not getting Byron!). So us fans have to realize that we hardly give anyone a chance here to develop. that's understandable, because we are usually winning a freaking championship every other year. but those days are gone.
We have not become a very supportive fanbase for a rebuilding laker team. We are too impatient. We criticize far too much, almost habitually, even our best players and characteristics we have very little patience for.
What's worse is that we almost go out of our way to praise players like Lebron and stuff, for fear of looking dumb or something. if it were me, i'd be fanatically praising kobe and nick and byron, and be lividly raging against lebron, cleveland, warriors, etc. And i'd even stop watching games and giving any attention or money to this team (except kobe)...somewhat of a boycott. because then the nba will listen to angry fans in it's largest fanbase. but no...we like to say how good lebron is and all that, so nba is very happy.
Well guess what, parity is working, and the fans have (kind of) let it happen. So whatever, i blame us fans a little bit. We're (bleep) about kobe and byron a lot now. but just wait, when they're gone, it's going to be waaaaaay worse. I already miss Odom, Artest, barnes, gasol...i never thought they were bad, even their last years. So we'll see...my guess is whoever comes along that we have whined for or initially gotten excited, we will soon lose patience with them and be criticizing them also.
But again, I really do think the team is tanking, so no matter what, we're going to lose a lot. kobe's not happy about it, but it doesn't matter, that's what's probably going on. We can act like that's not happening, but hey, that's not very realistic is it?
I bet...if we (the fans) completely stop watching and show our displeasure clearly, by the time the deadline approaches, a very nice player will have landed in our laps. That's my guess. i don't think anyone in the NBA wants to have uninterested LA fans.
Offense and Defense are complement each other, can't separate completely. Especially if want to figure out the reason which win or lose a game! _________________ "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." --Sarah Cook.
Sounds great in theory. But here's the problem. If you don't have defensive minded players you can scream about how you don't care about the offense until the cows come home but it won't matter. You know why? Because the players in question DO care about the offense.
We have mainly offensively motivated players. Which means to get them to play defense, they have to be involved offensively. You might not like that, and neither does Byron, but that's the way it is. Only guys inherently defensive minded can play d without being involved in the offense.
Just look at Kobe for instance. He sacrifices defensively to save himself for offense. He doesn't sacrifice his offense for defense. Why? He's offensive minded. So are most NBA players. Shaq was like that too. Feed the dog or it won't guard the house. Remember? He didn't say I'll guard the house so please feed me.
Tired of hearing people (including Scott) say they don't care about the offense. You should care. If you want defense.
the defensive issues aren't necessarily man on man defense. a good offensive player will most likely defeat a good defensive player unless the defender is playing a team oriented defense.
what I saw yesterday was inability to get back on defense (Kobe several times, Boozer).
also, there was no understanding of what to do on a PNR defensively (bad coaching). lin gets picked but he proceeds to go after his man. the big shows which is good. so at least there is improvement here. the problem is that they do not get the pick player (i.e. Gasol yesterday) and the big is late getting back or there is no rotation. you could rotate a guy during the PNR to Gasol and force a long pass which gives your defense time to set.
there were a lot of standing around on defense watching or a lot of help defense that is only halfway. either commit to the double or don't.
take Kobe out of picture first.
Davis plays inside but isn't a big body so he can't really play center. Hill does not play inside. You can see he's got more offensive rebounds then defensive. Great from an offensive standpoint but poor on a defensive standpoint when you are trying to make a stop. Sacre is the biggest body you have but he in no way plays big at all. Boozer is actually 2nd but plays shorter as he doesn't really jump.
so you have no interior support for the guards who ARE going to get beat due to PNR and quality of PG/SG. At least Davis supplies some help defense with his length but he then leaves his man open. You can't address the perimeter without addressing the interior. Once you establish the interior defense, then your guards can play up to their man and not try to help out as much. there should be no slacking off. you can gamble a bit knowing you have help.
so you want to fix this team, there's no way to start but with the interior. throw whatever you can to a defensive big man. should have tried to get Asik. this team would be so much better with Asik. he doesn't need the ball offensively but will get his points on PNR as well as offensive rebounds. you can put Boozer next to him and at least know there's a big body but he would be perfect with Hill. You can play Davis off the bench and when you need a stop put Davis and Asik in at the same time. One player can make a difference and he doesn't have to be a superstar.
Unfortunately Asik is not going anywhere any time soon. He's found himself a home. Who else can you get?
I don't disagree. We lack an anchor. And an anchor would help but you don't have to have an anchor to play good defense. Look at GSW. They may not be the best defensive team, and they certainly don't play "big", nor do they have an anchor but they're holding opponents to the lowest FG% in the NBA right now. So playing above average defense can be done without an anchor, it's just easier to with one.
I don't disagree. We lack an anchor. And an anchor would help but you don't have to have an anchor to play good defense. Look at GSW. They may not be the best defensive team, and they certainly don't play "big", nor do they have an anchor but they're holding opponents to the lowest FG% in the NBA right now. So playing above average defense can be done without an anchor, it's just easier to with one.
Golden State does have an anchor. Bogut is a pretty good player and at 1.8 bpg this season in only 26 mpg, he's a defensive presence. Plus, even though Lee has been out and not really a basket defender, all their PF/C are at least 6-9 and 245. For the Lakers, only Boozer (6-9 258, Randle 6-9 250, and Sacre 7-0 270) fit the bill and Sacre is at best the 5th big and Randle is a rookie and injured.
Next, GS made a conscious effort to improve defense by bringing in Iguodala a couple years ago and Draymond Green has been a surprised for them offensively. His forte was defense as he averages 1.1 bpg this season. With his play, they were able to put Barnes in the starting rotation and move Iggy to the bench where combined with Barbosa and Livingston, you have a very athletic backcourt and wing. Plus Speights in the middle. With Lee back they go 10 deep veterans athletic and capable defenders.
The Lakers players are offensively oriented (except for Ed Davis) with a coach that is defensive minded who doesn't "care" about offense. So basically what is happening is you're trying to polish a turd of defense while not taking advantage of what you have offensively. The Lakers can score, they just don't do so efficiently. How do you improve offensive efficiency? One way is to get easy baskets.
I don't disagree. We lack an anchor. And an anchor would help but you don't have to have an anchor to play good defense. Look at GSW. They may not be the best defensive team, and they certainly don't play "big", nor do they have an anchor but they're holding opponents to the lowest FG% in the NBA right now. So playing above average defense can be done without an anchor, it's just easier to with one.
Golden State does have an anchor. Bogut is a pretty good player and at 1.8 bpg this season in only 26 mpg, he's a defensive presence. Plus, even though Lee has been out and not really a basket defender, all their PF/C are at least 6-9 and 245. For the Lakers, only Boozer (6-9 258, Randle 6-9 250, and Sacre 7-0 270) fit the bill and Sacre is at best the 5th big and Randle is a rookie and injured.
Next, GS made a conscious effort to improve defense by bringing in Iguodala a couple years ago and Draymond Green has been a surprised for them offensively. His forte was defense as he averages 1.1 bpg this season. With his play, they were able to put Barnes in the starting rotation and move Iggy to the bench where combined with Barbosa and Livingston, you have a very athletic backcourt and wing. Plus Speights in the middle. With Lee back they go 10 deep veterans athletic and capable defenders.
The Lakers players are offensively oriented (except for Ed Davis) with a coach that is defensive minded who doesn't "care" about offense. So basically what is happening is you're trying to polish a turd of defense while not taking advantage of what you have offensively. The Lakers can score, they just don't do so efficiently. How do you improve offensive efficiency? One way is to get easy baskets.
Bogut may be their anchor, but he's not really the type of player you'd want to anchor your defense.
In other words, he's not the model of a defensive anchor nor is he elite in that regard by any stretch. He is serviceable in that role. And he is evidence that you don't need an elite anchor to be a good defensive team. (But having one sure helps!)
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