Thoughts on Lance Stephenson's Struggles?
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LandsbergerRules
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:31 am    Post subject: Thoughts on Lance Stephenson's Struggles?

You guys think Jim and Mitch made the right choice by not signing him?
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11945509/lance-stephenson-charlotte-hornets-benched-4th-quarter-again
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject:

I was looking at that too. Straight shooting, blunt talking, Coach Clifford stated that "he's not a star yet"....ouch. I won't go as far as to say that the Lakers made a mistake, but everyone knew Lance is a complementary player.

Who knows, he might have meshed well with Kobe & the team despite the doubts.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
I was looking at that too. Straight shooting, blunt talking, Coach Clifford stated that "he's not a star yet"....ouch. I won't go as far as to say that the Lakers made a mistake, but everyone knew Lance is a complementary player.

Who knows, he might have meshed well with Kobe & the team despite the doubts.


he's not being paid star money, so its really not that big a deal, it's when you pay star money for a non star that you screw your team.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:32 pm    Post subject:

He needed the discipline in Indiana.

He doesn't have it in his current situation.

It's hurting his game.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:45 pm    Post subject:

yes. Mitch and Jim clearly saw through Lance... but year is not over yet
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:52 pm    Post subject:

I wasn't upset at all that the Lakers didn't sign guys like Lance. You don't win rings making moves like that.

But at the contract the Hornets have him at, it's not really that bad. They can probably still move him down the road.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:30 am    Post subject:

Mike @ LG

You are so correct the Pacers built a solid support system around Lance and brought him along slowly. His family and agent played the Pacers disrespected you card and Lance followed their advice.

While here he could be a problem at times but had little pressure to be anything but a role player. When he got to Charlotte his signing was announced as a young star bought in as the missing piece.

Larry Bird, always praised Lance and wanted to keep him but Lance's people never even gave the Pacers a chance to match the Hornets offer. Vogel was the perfect coach for Lance, he never publicly criticized him and only praised him.

But the Pacers knew Lance's faults the Hornets didn't realize that Lance needs a strong support system, the more critical Clifford is of Lance ( tho Clifford is correct in his comments) the more Lance will sulk in time the situation could easily turn into an him or me ultimatum.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:27 am    Post subject:

indy_dave000 wrote:
Mike@LG

You are so correct the Pacers built a solid support system around Lance and brought him along slowly. His family and agent played the Pacers disrespected you card and Lance followed their advice.

While here he could be a problem at times but had little pressure to be anything but a role player. When he got to Charlotte his signing was announced as a young star bought in as the missing piece.

Larry Bird, always praised Lance and wanted to keep him but Lance's people never even gave the Pacers a chance to match the Hornets offer. Vogel was the perfect coach for Lance, he never publicly criticized him and only praised him.

But the Pacers knew Lance's faults the Hornets didn't realize that Lance needs a strong support system, the more critical Clifford is of Lance ( tho Clifford is correct in his comments) the more Lance will sulk in time the situation could easily turn into an him or me ultimatum.


He is a high energy guy, needing the ball to do flashy stuff and disrupt the opponent's game.
I see it hard to do in a losing team where a silly turnover can cost them the game.
Furthermore he is playing with a good (and well paid) PG, and there is no need for him to take the ball upcourt and distribute it. As he can't shoot, he'll get no benefit from double teams on Al Jefferson, who would be reluctant to give the ball out in the first place.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
I was looking at that too. Straight shooting, blunt talking, Coach Clifford stated that "he's not a star yet"....ouch. I won't go as far as to say that the Lakers made a mistake, but everyone knew Lance is a complementary player.

Who knows, he might have meshed well with Kobe & the team despite the doubts.


A ton of people didn't seem to know that. I think a lot of people were overselling him as a star because they hoped he could be the superhero that could take LeBron down. He has talent but he's a little out there.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject:

I think it's a fairly natural part of his progression and transition. As Clifford said, he's not a star...yet. He has the talent to be one. And he's handled his situation in Charlotte with maturity. He's not pouting, complaining to the media, or being a locker room issue. Even while struggling from the field, he's still been rebounding and generating assists, although to be fair, I haven't caught a game other than the one vs. us. At 3 year, $27M w/a team option, he was a huge whiff by the FO. High reward w/very little risk.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:15 pm    Post subject:

His lack of 3 pt shooting is really hurting them. Stack that on losing such a key part of their offense (and stretch 4) in McRoberts, then you could see why its been so tough for them.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject:

Yes, the Lakers dodged one, of dealing with him through these years.

There's a reason Lance winded up settling having to sign for less and allow a team option.

THAT spoke volumes imo.
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Theseus
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Lance had a great situation in indiana and he walked away for the money.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Yes, the Lakers dodged one, of dealing with him through these years.

There's a reason Lance winded up settling having to sign for less and allow a team option.

THAT spoke volumes imo.


He was offered 5 years and more money from Indiana. He didn't settle...he chose it.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:07 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
MJST wrote:
Yes, the Lakers dodged one, of dealing with him through these years.

There's a reason Lance winded up settling having to sign for less and allow a team option.

THAT spoke volumes imo.


He was offered 5 years and more money from Indiana. He didn't settle...he chose it.


Pretty much, but its the fact he burned the bridge to such an extent he couldn't go back after they gave him a deadline to accept.

Then Charlotte putting a team option on him was another.

Then you see just how much he doesn't move the needle for Charlotte this year it's disappointing, but it also shows how all the hate the Lakers got during the off-season for not getting him as a potential season saving move has been thus far proven incorrect.

One thing Lance will always be good at is getting the other stats, but he was great on Indiana because he could do what he did without having to worry about being locked in on defensively. Now in Charlotte he doesn't have that luxury and he's inconsistent again.
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leor_77
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Lakers sure dodged a bullet there, with their 3-13 record.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject:

While i havent been following the hornets, i have him in my fantasy team and he's been filling boxscores this season.

His shooting is gone yes but he's doing everything else well it seems. Also, way too early to draw conclusions...cause although charlotte is having a terrible season i think that's due to the lack of mcroberts or of a quality stretch 4 more than anything else
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:46 am    Post subject:

leor_77 wrote:
Lakers sure dodged a bullet there, with their 3-13 record.


They sure did. I'd much rather retain our top 5 pick than for Lance to be contributing to maybe 5-8 more wins. I'd also much rather use his money on RJax, Dragic, Knight, Matthews, or possibly Butler next year.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject:

He was just never that good.

Period.

Bye.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject:

He's already on the trading block...
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/01/report-hornets-aggressively-talking-trade-willing-to-deal-anyone-besides-kemba-walker-and-al-jefferson/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=3214937&utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20Sports&utm_tags=
Either the Hornets are terrible at managing talent or he isn't that good without being in Indiana's system.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
I think it's a fairly natural part of his progression and transition. As Clifford said, he's not a star...yet. He has the talent to be one. And he's handled his situation in Charlotte with maturity. He's not pouting, complaining to the media, or being a locker room issue. Even while struggling from the field, he's still been rebounding and generating assists, although to be fair, I haven't caught a game other than the one vs. us. At 3 year, $27M w/a team option, he was a huge whiff by the FO. High reward w/very little risk.


Back during the offseason, I compared Stevenson to George Hill as an example of a guy who in the right system with a lot of other weapons and attention diverted elsewhere, produces numbers and efficiencies in a limited number of opportunities that cause people to extrapolate what he would do if he was given more opportunities. The problem with this extrapolation is, if you move a guy up the pecking order, and thus focus the defense more on him, or if you change systems in order to do so, you begin to see the holes in their game that has them producing what they already are, as opposed to getting more opportunity.

Simply put, Stevenson has glaring holes in his game. He is a mediocre 3 point shooter, average at a league level, but sub average on a positional basis. What’s more, he benefitted from Indy’s system and the attention given to other players. Teams keyed on George and David West, and what’s more, they were loath to leave Hill because of his open 3 point shooting skills, and Hibbert because of his size and location around the basket. So Stevenson was the guy they chose to beat them off the rotation. He got a ton of open 3 looks (which makes his percentage even worse, since players tend to hit a much higher percentage wide open), and spent a lot of the time getting the ball in open space or against a rotating defender. Importantly, Stevenson is an awful shooter at mid and long 2’s (he shot 35% on 2 point shots outside of 10 feet last year), and he gets even worse (as we have seen in Charlotte) when someone contests those shots more regularly.

He did the vast majority of his damage in the lane last year, exploiting seams, lack of coverage, or single rotating coverage to get there. He is no longer getting there at the same rate, and he isn’t converting as well either. He has seen a 20% drop in the percentage of his attempts inside 3 feet, and an 11% drop in attempts between 3 and 10 feet, his bread and butter areas last year. Further, he has seen a decline of his fg% in those areas from 69 to 61 percent at the rim, and from 43 to 21 percent. He has seen an increase of 38% in his shots from 10-16 feet (where he hits 35%), and a whopping 108% increase in percentage of shots from 16 feet to the 3 line (which he is hitting at 32%). He has been effectively driven off the 3 shot as well (down 48% as a percentage of shots), and has been awful at the ones he takes.

What is revealed about Stephenson is that he lacks the ability to manufacture good shots for himself when paid attention to, and he also lacks the ability to make shots with a contesting defender nearby. He is an excellent passer, seeing others well as they open up and delivery the correct, timely pass, but he cannot create for himself without the huge window of opportunity afforded by being far down the defensive pecking order. Rather than being held back in Indy, he was being propped up, and his efficiencies there were primarily due to lack of defensive attention. We saw that after the allstar break last year, when he attempted to do more, drew more attention, and his numbers fell. They have fallen even more as defenses have figured out his vast holes and tailored themselves to exploiting those while challenging his sweet spots.

Worse than all of this is his attitude. He wants to be a star, and becomes moody, pouty, and selfish when things don’t go his way. After the allstar snub, he became a cancer, and his defense fell off considerably (his d rating fell off hugely after the break, and remains right there in Charlotte, a team that was top 5 in defensive rating last year without him, but has plummeted to 24th with him). He is already said to be an internal distraction in Charlotte and is on the market.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Lance Stephenson's Struggles?

LandsbergerRules wrote:
You guys think Jim and Mitch made the right choice by not signing him?
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11945509/lance-stephenson-charlotte-hornets-benched-4th-quarter-again


Absolutely not.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject:

I just saw some trade rumor involving him.

This is why big franchises don't overpay for other dudes just cause you strike out on the stars. Sure, it makes the fans happy to have new blood on the team but come a quarter of the way through the season. People will be trying to get rid of him.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12028590/charlotte-hornets-explore-lance-stephenson-trade

Quote:
Lance Stephenson available in trade

Charlotte Hornets swingman Lance Stephenson becomes eligible to be traded Monday and his new team is indeed exploring its options to move him, according to league sources.




That was quick.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
@WojYahooNBA
So far, Charlotte's been unwilling to attach a first-round pick to unload Stephenson. That could've kick-started conversation with Pacers.


So teams are looking for a 1st rounder to even take Stephenson? He is on a 2 year contract the 3rd year is a team option.

Obviously Nash is available as an expiring. Why are they giving him away like candy? I know he hasn't played well, but im guessing its his attitude as well.
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