| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Charisma
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 703
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We're still undefeated against the East  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Honeybadger81
Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 1253
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bws94 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Was Lin at least bringing the ball up the floor tonight? |
He brought it up and then dumped it to Kobe in the post. From there, he didn't get it back BUT, he didn't move around much either. Kobe got a lot of turnovers and assists because he became the feeder from that area pretty much most of the game when he was on the court. |
I think it was within the flow of the game, Kobe post in the elbow was effective, they played him one on one, the difference is Kobe did not force shots, he was playmaking, jeremy did all the right thing, staying top of the key or weak side, let Kobe operate, the bigs catch passes in the down low. They did changed up after a Kobe turnover, lin penetrated and passed to boozer and scored...overall it is fine, Kobe was a little sloppy with the ball, at the same time he was effective...
Luckily the poisons sucked bigger time, they missed a lot easy lay ups.
Last edited by Honeybadger81 on Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Avada wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | Kobe is playing way too many minutes, both PG and SG. You can tell he is laboring and hence the TOs. You got to trust your guys to play their positions. I am not sure this is BS's idea or Kobe's. I don't think it is not healthy in the long run and would work on good teams. |
His TO's were off the charts during that stretch where he took over the handles under MDA too. He's just a high turnover player. It has nothing do with minutes. |
No, he's not. His turnover rate was amazingly low before this game, and is at 11% for his career, which is excellent given his volume. He's only a hight turnover player when he goes into overpass PG mode. |
Enough with TOV%. It's a scoring stat that nothing to do with passing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
13th Man
Star Player
Joined: 10 Sep 2014
Posts: 1009
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Reading too much into it. Kobe just wants to play the way he sees fit, has little to do with Lin. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Avada
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 171
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakersken80 wrote: | | Avada wrote: | | this is what happens when you turn your SG into a PG. expect many more high turnover games for bryant in the weeks to come. |
They got mad at him when he took too many shots and called him a ballhog...
Now their mad at him because he passes the ball too much and doesn't score as much as he used to...
Some people are just mad. |
I'm not mad. I just think he needs to have better balance in his game. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
showmethemoney
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 444
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakerpr wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
The message was actually "stop dribble." BS said Lin dribbled too much so now it's Kobe's job. |
I must've missed that interview.
When did Byron say that Lin dribbled too much? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakerpr
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 104
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| greenfrog wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Was Lin doing a bad job facilitating? |
Lin had 18pts/11 assists two games ago with much less TO (don't remember but much lower than 10). So I am not sure how/why this happened. Maybe the only way to make Kobe shoot less/get others involved is to let him set the play. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Honeybadger81
Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 1253
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 13th Man wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Reading too much into it. Kobe just wants to play the way he sees fit, has little to do with Lin. |
And lin played well, did what he was assigned to do in this game |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bws94
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 1563
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
I don't buy it. That's not toughness, that's Kobe's machismo or whatever it is. Lin is a different type of person and player, more like Duncan who will play hard but not in-your-face. But Lin does need to state his case and stand his ground with Kobe. When he brings it up, run plays in another direction, too much dumping to Kobe tonight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakerpr
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 104
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| showmethemoney wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
The message was actually "stop dribble." BS said Lin dribbled too much so now it's Kobe's job. |
I must've missed that interview.
When did Byron say that Lin dribbled too much? |
Google it and you find:
"Coach Byron Scott has not been totally enamoured with Lin’s play, yet. He has criticised him for his defence and for “picking up his dribble” and, after the Denver game for “over-dribbling.”"
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/north-american/linsanity-days-may-be-behind-jeremy-lin-who-tries-to-find-a-new-home-alongside-kobe-bryant |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Avada
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 171
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| greenfrog wrote: | | Avada wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | Kobe is playing way too many minutes, both PG and SG. You can tell he is laboring and hence the TOs. You got to trust your guys to play their positions. I am not sure this is BS's idea or Kobe's. I don't think it is not healthy in the long run and would work on good teams. |
His TO's were off the charts during that stretch where he took over the handles under MDA too. He's just a high turnover player. It has nothing do with minutes. |
No, he's not. His turnover rate was amazingly low before this game, and is at 11% for his career, which is excellent given his volume. He's only a hight turnover player when he goes into overpass PG mode. |
Enough with TOV%. It's a scoring stat that nothing to do with passing. |
What the hell are you talking about? It has nothing to do with scoring. It's simply the rate you turn it over per 100 possessions. Don't be mad because you were blatantly wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Avada wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Avada wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | Kobe is playing way too many minutes, both PG and SG. You can tell he is laboring and hence the TOs. You got to trust your guys to play their positions. I am not sure this is BS's idea or Kobe's. I don't think it is not healthy in the long run and would work on good teams. |
His TO's were off the charts during that stretch where he took over the handles under MDA too. He's just a high turnover player. It has nothing do with minutes. |
No, he's not. His turnover rate was amazingly low before this game, and is at 11% for his career, which is excellent given his volume. He's only a hight turnover player when he goes into overpass PG mode. |
Enough with TOV%. It's a scoring stat that nothing to do with passing. |
What the hell are you talking about? It has nothing to do with scoring. It's simply the rate you turn it over per 100 possessions. Don't be mad because you were blatantly wrong. |
"the formula is 100 * TOV / (FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV). Turnover percentage is an estimate of turnovers per 100 plays."
What don't you understand about this? The more shots you take the more your TOV% improves...that's just math.
It's the black hole stat.
Last edited by greenfrog on Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
showmethemoney
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 444
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can Byron become more creative and come up with multiple sets of Kobe's post-up? It is so predictable now that when the opponent doubles hard, Kobe has very little angle to pass the ball.
I don't mind Kobe playing PG but I really don't like him doing so much of it.
He is 36, not 26. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bws94
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 1563
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakerpr wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Was Lin doing a bad job facilitating? |
Lin had 18pts/11 assists two games ago with much less TO (don't remember but much lower than 10). So I am not sure how/why this happened. Maybe the only way to make Kobe shoot less/get others involved is to let him set the play. |
That's what is bothering me. Lin was playing well for a few games with Minnesota being a really good game for him. Now he's back to taking too few shots and too little involvement in the game. If something happens with Kobe, Lin needs to be able to get the guys going and he should be that guy making much bigger contributions to the team than he has anyway and with Kobe. He was moving in a very positive direction, the last 2 games he is reverting and I hope Byron doesn't prefer how he played the last 2 games vs. how he played in the Minny game. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakerpr
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 104
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| showmethemoney wrote: | Can Byron become more creative and come up with multiple sets of Kobe's post-up? It is so predictable now that when the opponent doubles hard, Kobe has very little angle to pass the ball.
I don't mind Kobe playing PG but I really don't like him doing so much of it.
He is 36, not 26. |
This is the "change" BS came up with so far. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EddieJonesss
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 606
Location: 32 miles from the Staples Center
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Chiming in to say: yay! another win streak!
Two triple doubles in a row. That's probably a first for Kobe.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CBaller8
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2002
Posts: 14876
Location: Reseda, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LOL @ Nick Young during that Hill interview |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakerpr
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 104
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bws94 wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Was Lin doing a bad job facilitating? |
Lin had 18pts/11 assists two games ago with much less TO (don't remember but much lower than 10). So I am not sure how/why this happened. Maybe the only way to make Kobe shoot less/get others involved is to let him set the play. |
That's what is bothering me. Lin was playing well for a few games with Minnesota being a really good game for him. Now he's back to taking too few shots and too little involvement in the game. If something happens with Kobe, Lin needs to be able to get the guys going and he should be that guy making much bigger contributions to the team than he has anyway and with Kobe. He was moving in a very positive direction, the last 2 games he is reverting and I hope Byron doesn't prefer how he played the last 2 games vs. how he played in the Minny game. |
On the contrary, the last two games reflect the "change" BS was talking about. Lin is playing along. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
option_nerd
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Avada wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Avada wrote: | | this is what happens when you turn your SG into a PG. expect many more high turnover games for bryant in the weeks to come. |
They got mad at him when he took too many shots and called him a ballhog...
Now their mad at him because he passes the ball too much and doesn't score as much as he used to...
Some people are just mad. |
I'm not mad. I just think he needs to have better balance in his game. |
it is all about giving the ball to Kobe and let him be the PG. i don't think Lin would have a choice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Avada
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 171
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| greenfrog wrote: | | Avada wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Avada wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | Kobe is playing way too many minutes, both PG and SG. You can tell he is laboring and hence the TOs. You got to trust your guys to play their positions. I am not sure this is BS's idea or Kobe's. I don't think it is not healthy in the long run and would work on good teams. |
His TO's were off the charts during that stretch where he took over the handles under MDA too. He's just a high turnover player. It has nothing do with minutes. |
No, he's not. His turnover rate was amazingly low before this game, and is at 11% for his career, which is excellent given his volume. He's only a hight turnover player when he goes into overpass PG mode. |
Enough with TOV%. It's a scoring stat that nothing to do with passing. |
What the hell are you talking about? It has nothing to do with scoring. It's simply the rate you turn it over per 100 possessions. Don't be mad because you were blatantly wrong. |
"the formula is 100 * TOV / (FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV). Turnover percentage is an estimate of turnovers per 100 plays."
What don't you understand about this? The more shots you take the more your TOV% improves...that's just math. |
Your TOV% improves because a shot attempt is always much better than a turnover. That doesn't change the fact that its simply metric that estimates the number of turnovers a player commits per 100 possessions.
You'd have to be a fool to think that somebody with a career 11% turnover rate is a "high" turnover rate, especially given his usage. Please don't tell me you use turnovers per game to measure this stuff.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Byron was glad the bench lost much of the lead. He was afraid he'd have to give Clarkson playing time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anpherknee
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 16933
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bws94 wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Was Lin doing a bad job facilitating? |
Lin had 18pts/11 assists two games ago with much less TO (don't remember but much lower than 10). So I am not sure how/why this happened. Maybe the only way to make Kobe shoot less/get others involved is to let him set the play. |
That's what is bothering me. Lin was playing well for a few games with Minnesota being a really good game for him. Now he's back to taking too few shots and too little involvement in the game. If something happens with Kobe, Lin needs to be able to get the guys going and he should be that guy making much bigger contributions to the team than he has anyway and with Kobe. He was moving in a very positive direction, the last 2 games he is reverting and I hope Byron doesn't prefer how he played the last 2 games vs. how he played in the Minny game. |
We lost that game tho. Tonight we won. Lin played 30 minutes had 11 and 5 on a night where everyone was involved in the offense...im not seeing what the problem is here. They saw that the pistons were over-helping on kobe and exploited the defense accordingly. Its one game in a long season and Lin will have plenty of opportunities going forward |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bws94
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 1563
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakerpr wrote: | | bws94 wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Was Lin doing a bad job facilitating? |
Lin had 18pts/11 assists two games ago with much less TO (don't remember but much lower than 10). So I am not sure how/why this happened. Maybe the only way to make Kobe shoot less/get others involved is to let him set the play. |
That's what is bothering me. Lin was playing well for a few games with Minnesota being a really good game for him. Now he's back to taking too few shots and too little involvement in the game. If something happens with Kobe, Lin needs to be able to get the guys going and he should be that guy making much bigger contributions to the team than he has anyway and with Kobe. He was moving in a very positive direction, the last 2 games he is reverting and I hope Byron doesn't prefer how he played the last 2 games vs. how he played in the Minny game. |
On the contrary, the last two games reflect the "change" BS was talking about. Lin is playing along. |
Not a winning formula for the team. Not a good way to utilize Lin's strengths. Kobe and Lin can be a force, but not with Lin watching so much. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jonathan1212
Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 183
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| anpherknee wrote: | | bws94 wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Was Lin doing a bad job facilitating? |
Lin had 18pts/11 assists two games ago with much less TO (don't remember but much lower than 10). So I am not sure how/why this happened. Maybe the only way to make Kobe shoot less/get others involved is to let him set the play. |
That's what is bothering me. Lin was playing well for a few games with Minnesota being a really good game for him. Now he's back to taking too few shots and too little involvement in the game. If something happens with Kobe, Lin needs to be able to get the guys going and he should be that guy making much bigger contributions to the team than he has anyway and with Kobe. He was moving in a very positive direction, the last 2 games he is reverting and I hope Byron doesn't prefer how he played the last 2 games vs. how he played in the Minny game. |
We lost that game tho. Tonight we won. Lin played 30 minutes had 11 and 5 on a night where everyone was involved in the offense...im not seeing what the problem is here. They saw that the pistons were over-helping on kobe and exploited the defense accordingly. Its one game in a long season and Lin will have plenty of opportunities going forward |
yeah. we dominated. whats the problem? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bws94
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 1563
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| anpherknee wrote: | | bws94 wrote: | | lakerpr wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | I think Kobe is sending Lin a message here. Either man up and do your job or I'm going to do it for you. Kobe doesn't give a fack about the 10 turnovers, he'll fart in your face and say you're welcome. Lin needs a bit of that toughness. |
Was Lin doing a bad job facilitating? |
Lin had 18pts/11 assists two games ago with much less TO (don't remember but much lower than 10). So I am not sure how/why this happened. Maybe the only way to make Kobe shoot less/get others involved is to let him set the play. |
That's what is bothering me. Lin was playing well for a few games with Minnesota being a really good game for him. Now he's back to taking too few shots and too little involvement in the game. If something happens with Kobe, Lin needs to be able to get the guys going and he should be that guy making much bigger contributions to the team than he has anyway and with Kobe. He was moving in a very positive direction, the last 2 games he is reverting and I hope Byron doesn't prefer how he played the last 2 games vs. how he played in the Minny game. |
We lost that game tho. Tonight we won. Lin played 30 minutes had 11 and 5 on a night where everyone was involved in the offense...im not seeing what the problem is here. They saw that the pistons were over-helping on kobe and exploited the defense accordingly. Its one game in a long season and Lin will have plenty of opportunities going forward |
Because it was the Pistons. Lakers should not have lost the Minny game, the loss was due to bad execution down the stretch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
