Over the years, the Lakers have been substantially more successful at navigating through droughts and constructing championship contending teams. I'm not even sure the Spurs organization had ever experienced an NBA finals prior to drafting the best PF to ever play the game with the #1 overall selection after a 20-win season.
I'm not sure how you can say what you did about the Spurs franchise, and not apply the same statement AND THEN SOME, to the Lakers franchise considering they've done it to the tune of 16 championships over the course of time whereas the Spurs have their 5 all of which have come in their CURRENT run which, is going to end very soon.
You also forgot to mention, that those long droughts by the Lakers were being run by smart people.... Mitch/West/Dr. Buss..... now that is not the case.... this is the first time in probably Lakers history where the current drought could end up being a long one because of the lack of leadership in the Organization.
Sure. It could. It's too early to tell though.
None of those guys would have been immune to a drought. We'll get out. It's going to take time. It could take 2-3 years before we really look to be on an upward trajectory.
There is no use in pouting right now.
Its not pouting its being realistic about what the front office has done to the franchise in the last 3-4 years. They don't deserve a pass because the guy in charge has no experience running a basketball team and has made mostly terrible moves so far. This isn't the Minnesota Timberwolves. Someone smart needs to be running the team again. _________________ Championships since NBA/ABA merger in '76: Lakers 10 - Celtics 5 - Clippers 0 --- Phil Jackson 10 - Doc Rivers 1
Over the years, the Lakers have been substantially more successful at navigating through droughts and constructing championship contending teams. I'm not even sure the Spurs organization had ever experienced an NBA finals prior to drafting the best PF to ever play the game with the #1 overall selection after a 20-win season.
I'm not sure how you can say what you did about the Spurs franchise, and not apply the same statement AND THEN SOME, to the Lakers franchise considering they've done it to the tune of 16 championships over the course of time whereas the Spurs have their 5 all of which have come in their CURRENT run which, is going to end very soon.
You also forgot to mention, that those long droughts by the Lakers were being run by smart people.... Mitch/West/Dr. Buss..... now that is not the case.... this is the first time in probably Lakers history where the current drought could end up being a long one because of the lack of leadership in the Organization.
Sure. It could. It's too early to tell though.
None of those guys would have been immune to a drought. We'll get out. It's going to take time. It could take 2-3 years before we really look to be on an upward trajectory.
There is no use in pouting right now.
Its not pouting its being realistic about what the front office has done to the franchise in the last 3-4 years. They don't deserve a pass because the guy in charge has no experience running a basketball team and has made mostly terrible moves so far. This isn't the Minnesota Timberwolves. Someone smart needs to be running the team again.
Sure it's pouting. The guy was saying this team was going to win the West last year and was like a 5th seed or something this year. Because things aren't going well now, he's pouting.
Look, I'm not thrilled about where we are right now, but we're on the down part of the championship cycle. We could have kick started our ascent by not extending Kobe, but I don't think most fans were quite ready for that just yet. So we'll have to start that after next season. That's reality. Pouting won't change anything.
^^^give it up dude. We extended Kobe and can still improve the team for his last year and for beyond that. We have cap space. Also, There's no one better for young guys like Randle to look up to than Kobe. Stop acting like Kobe stalls the whole rebuild process. He's showed he's willing to stay patient and go through the process. He will leave a positive impression on Randle and Clarkson
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:35 pm Post subject:
The Lakers are doing what they did last year. Last year they were dealing with Dwight leaving and no pick or cap space, but they competed until after Kobe went down and the playoffs were out of the question, and they dumped Blake because he was the driving engine of the team (not good enough to win, but good enough tonwin too much for a good lick), and shut Pau down so he wouldn't make a contract kick.
This year they were bound by keeping money available going forward, so they built a roster that might compete if everything went their way. And not if anything substantive didn't. And like last year, at some point when the math hits a degree of certainty, they will likely look to move pieces for future assets and frankly, pile up losses.
LA doesn't tank before the season. Honor, tradition, call it what you will. But once it hits a certain point, they acquiesce to realities. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Well I think that they actually do have a vision and a plan and I also think it's pretty obvious. Save as much money as they can so Jimmy can spend it all!!!
Who cares if the team wins or not...
You hit it on the head, that dude doesn't care he's just an incompetent idiot. He inherited dad's cash cow and now he's going to ride it all the way to the bank. There's no pride no love and no knowledge of how to make things work, he's always been given everything.
The Lakers are doing what they did last year. Last year they were dealing with Dwight leaving and no pick or cap space, but they competed until after Kobe went down and the playoffs were out of the question, and they dumped Blake because he was the driving engine of the team (not good enough to win, but good enough tonwin too much for a good lick), and shut Pau down so he wouldn't make a contract kick.
This year they were bound by keeping money available going forward, so they built a roster that might compete if everything went their way. And not if anything substantive didn't. And like last year, at some point when the math hits a degree of certainty, they will likely look to move pieces for future assets and frankly, pile up losses.
LA doesn't tank before the season. Honor, tradition, call it what you will. But once it hits a certain point, they acquiesce to realities.
This is probably the most logical explanation I've heard on the matter of tanking...I think by now they know this team is headed in a certain direction (the lottery) so they'll look to move possibly move players if they could acquire assets (young players/picks).
The Lakers are doing what they did last year. Last year they were dealing with Dwight leaving and no pick or cap space, but they competed until after Kobe went down and the playoffs were out of the question, and they dumped Blake because he was the driving engine of the team (not good enough to win, but good enough tonwin too much for a good lick), and shut Pau down so he wouldn't make a contract kick.
This year they were bound by keeping money available going forward, so they built a roster that might compete if everything went their way. And not if anything substantive didn't. And like last year, at some point when the math hits a degree of certainty, they will likely look to move pieces for future assets and frankly, pile up losses.
LA doesn't tank before the season. Honor, tradition, call it what you will. But once it hits a certain point, they acquiesce to realities.
This is probably the most logical explanation I've heard on the matter of tanking...I think by now they know this team is headed in a certain direction (the lottery) so they'll look to move possibly move players if they could acquire assets (young players/picks).
I think a few others have said it too (I called it a tale of two seasons). And 24 is right on the mark though. They make a run to probably the 40 game mark, then let the chips fall. I hope by then the FO will finally get into the game of obtaining as many assets as possible. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
^^^give it up dude. We extended Kobe and can still improve the team for his last year and for beyond that. We have cap space. Also, There's no one better for young guys like Randle to look up to than Kobe. Stop acting like Kobe stalls the whole rebuild process. He's showed he's willing to stay patient and go through the process. He will leave a positive impression on Randle and Clarkson
Improve on a 20-30 win team, sure.
I'm not acting like Kobe stalls the rebuild process. He does. Some of it is through no fault of his own and some of it is.
Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 8287 Location: Oxnard, Ca.
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:22 am Post subject:
Jim Buss needs to clean the mud off his jockey goggles, it wilt improve his vision. Either that or don't run after it rains. We just had a few rainy day's, it's been years of no rain so Jim just needs to adjust the day's races. _________________ .....
.....
ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:33 am Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
lukewaltonsdad wrote:
laker4life wrote:
she compared our situation by talking about how Phil faced the New York media for like 30 minutes to discuss his vision. Phil answered alot of these questions, etc.
She commented the Lakers are not doing that now. Who is the voice of the Lakers she asked.
Interesting commetns.
I thought Jeanie made that clear when she started doing her pubic appearances. Either way, I get the concern, but I'll give the FO some time to right this ship. A reasonable amount of time. I don't want to be having this discussion 3-4 years from now...
Exactly, Jeannie is the voice of the franchise, she has let us all know that. If that is what Ramona is basing her ideas off of, then she is basing them on basically nothing.
Wait. In another thread you cited Ramona as one of your trusted reporters and sources? Not anymore I presume?
Right, because one thing is exactly like the other is. Look a little deeper into what really happened and get back to me. Looking at things from the surface usually makes one uninformed. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:36 am Post subject:
Jordan-esque wrote:
People like what they want to hear?
But interesting that Ramona who's basically the Lakers front office apologist in reporting is actually saying all these things. Everyone associated with the Lakers is having a hangover today.
Did you actually listen to what she said? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Over the years, the Lakers have been substantially more successful at navigating through droughts and constructing championship contending teams. I'm not even sure the Spurs organization had ever experienced an NBA finals prior to drafting the best PF to ever play the game with the #1 overall selection after a 20-win season.
I'm not sure how you can say what you did about the Spurs franchise, and not apply the same statement AND THEN SOME, to the Lakers franchise considering they've done it to the tune of 16 championships over the course of time whereas the Spurs have their 5 all of which have come in their CURRENT run which, is going to end very soon.
You also forgot to mention, that those long droughts by the Lakers were being run by smart people.... Mitch/West/Dr. Buss..... now that is not the case.... this is the first time in probably Lakers history where the current drought could end up being a long one because of the lack of leadership in the Organization.
Sure. It could. It's too early to tell though.
None of those guys would have been immune to a drought. We'll get out. It's going to take time. It could take 2-3 years before we really look to be on an upward trajectory.
There is no use in pouting right now.
Its not pouting its being realistic about what the front office has done to the franchise in the last 3-4 years. They don't deserve a pass because the guy in charge has no experience running a basketball team and has made mostly terrible moves so far. This isn't the Minnesota Timberwolves. Someone smart needs to be running the team again.
Sure it's pouting. The guy was saying this team was going to win the West last year and was like a 5th seed or something this year. Because things aren't going well now, he's pouting.
Look, I'm not thrilled about where we are right now, but we're on the down part of the championship cycle. We could have kick started our ascent by not extending Kobe, but I don't think most fans were quite ready for that just yet. So we'll have to start that after next season. That's reality. Pouting won't change anything.
The fanbase has a right to an opinion. The problem is that we are in this situation. This down cycle is not the same as the others we've seen in the last 20 years. We have zero talent on the team besides Kobe and a 19 year old (that we got because Jim hired the wrong coach) and the 4th pick in the draft won't be helping us contend for titles any time soon (see 76ers). The current regime put us in this situation because they're incompetent. If people can't see that, they're likely in denial. I have higher standards for the franchise, personally. _________________ Championships since NBA/ABA merger in '76: Lakers 10 - Celtics 5 - Clippers 0 --- Phil Jackson 10 - Doc Rivers 1
She's not hearing that there's a vision because there isn't one. It seems to me that they're just blowing smoke up the fans butt. That FO is a disaster, and it has been ever since the firings of all our long-time employees. Nevertheless, Im shocked this is coming from Shelbourne.
Over the years, the Lakers have been substantially more successful at navigating through droughts and constructing championship contending teams. I'm not even sure the Spurs organization had ever experienced an NBA finals prior to drafting the best PF to ever play the game with the #1 overall selection after a 20-win season.
I'm not sure how you can say what you did about the Spurs franchise, and not apply the same statement AND THEN SOME, to the Lakers franchise considering they've done it to the tune of 16 championships over the course of time whereas the Spurs have their 5 all of which have come in their CURRENT run which, is going to end very soon.
You also forgot to mention, that those long droughts by the Lakers were being run by smart people.... Mitch/West/Dr. Buss..... now that is not the case.... this is the first time in probably Lakers history where the current drought could end up being a long one because of the lack of leadership in the Organization.
Sure. It could. It's too early to tell though.
None of those guys would have been immune to a drought. We'll get out. It's going to take time. It could take 2-3 years before we really look to be on an upward trajectory.
There is no use in pouting right now.
Its not pouting its being realistic about what the front office has done to the franchise in the last 3-4 years. They don't deserve a pass because the guy in charge has no experience running a basketball team and has made mostly terrible moves so far. This isn't the Minnesota Timberwolves. Someone smart needs to be running the team again.
Sure it's pouting. The guy was saying this team was going to win the West last year and was like a 5th seed or something this year. Because things aren't going well now, he's pouting.
Look, I'm not thrilled about where we are right now, but we're on the down part of the championship cycle. We could have kick started our ascent by not extending Kobe, but I don't think most fans were quite ready for that just yet. So we'll have to start that after next season. That's reality. Pouting won't change anything.
The fanbase has a right to an opinion. The problem is that we are in this situation. This down cycle is not the same as the others we've seen in the last 20 years. We have zero talent on the team besides Kobe and a 19 year old (that we got because Jim hired the wrong coach) and the 4th pick in the draft won't be helping us contend for titles any time soon (see 76ers). The current regime put us in this situation because they're incompetent. If people can't see that, they're likely in denial. I have higher standards for the franchise, personally.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even wrong opinions!
If you wanted to accelerate the path back to contention, you should have been in opposition to the Kobe extension. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
That extension put us in a purgatory, or limbo, for the duration of it. You don't see me pouting about it. I didn't agree with it but I understood why they did it, and I can also be realistic about it.
The fanbase has a right to an opinion. The problem is that we are in this situation. This down cycle is not the same as the others we've seen in the last 20 years. We have zero talent on the team besides Kobe and a 19 year old (that we got because Jim hired the wrong coach) and the 4th pick in the draft won't be helping us contend for titles any time soon (see 76ers). The current regime put us in this situation because they're incompetent. If people can't see that, they're likely in denial. I have higher standards for the franchise, personally.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even wrong opinions!
If you wanted to accelerate the path back to contention, you should have been in opposition to the Kobe extension. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
That extension put us in a purgatory, or limbo, for the duration of it. You don't see me pouting about it. I didn't agree with it but I understood why they did it, and I can also be realistic about it.
Dude you are preaching to the choir on that one. Obvious mistake to extend Kobe in that manner and yes I naturally wanted to not only accelerate the path to contention, I wanted to continue contending, which would have happened if we hired PJ so we could build around Dwight (yes, let Kobe go) and make another run at CP3 in 2013.
Jim Buss liked this plan better I guess. I wonder how the head honchos at TWC are feeling about their investment right about now _________________ Championships since NBA/ABA merger in '76: Lakers 10 - Celtics 5 - Clippers 0 --- Phil Jackson 10 - Doc Rivers 1
This should have been clear when they hired D'Antoni over Phil - because "MDA was the better fit".
Right! Forget the fact that if I was hiring a coach for anything in the universe including a life coach I'd hire the guy who has never sucked at it....ever regardless of context.....Phil would be my guy!
Forget all that and just speak purely basketball. MDA and his 7 seconds or less......would be AWESOME for the extremely agile and mobile players of:
38 year old Nash who was injured at the time...and you can't tell me Lakers were stupid enough to know how bad....or maybe you could since they seem pretty stupid
36 year old Kobe who was never a run and gun player....even when he was 26
33 year old Ron Artest who did this
33 year old Pau .....who was one step above Vlade in terms of coordination
27 year old D12 coming of back surgery.....who is a center
In one of Phil's books I read that Phil in speaking with Dr Buss was often aware of FA's the Lakers wanted years ahead. He also alluded to how Dr Buss wanted 2 all-star Laker represents at the ASG above all. There were clear cut goals and targets in mind. He planned 2-3 years ahead of time what to do with certain players on the current team and how to attain more star talent.
It seems this current regime is trying the same thing. They're looking to add all-star talent and are using the FA process to attain them. To be fair, they thought they already had the goundworks when they traded for Dwight in 2012. Dwight was their "core" all-star for the next 5-6 years. Kobe (at least at that time had mentioned about retiring in 2 years) retires by 2014. Lakers have FA capspace to lure in new FA's and bring in new star talent. In the mix somewhere they had to make a decision with what to do with Pau. I know few agree, but when you lose a top 10 player and an all-star like that, few teams recover quickly. It takes the team about 10 steps back.
So now when Dwight walks, Kobe announces he wants to play 2 more years and Pau is an impending FA, Lakers don't really have ground work anymore to get the FA's. What can they pitch roster wise in a FA recruitment plan? Melo said he liked LA's pitch business wise but the roster wasn't going to be any good. Why leave mediocrity in NY to go get same mediocrity in LA for less money? I wouldn't be surprised if most FA's viewed Lakers this way in 2014 and 2015.
It comes down to this for me. Until Kobe retires, Lakers are stuck. They simple have no realistic means to sign all-stars even though they hope someone will grab that max offer in the summers. They need to wait it out. Their vision may be viewed as invisible until they can get out of the Kobe era. Because you just can't sign all-stars and pair up guys now with a huge 25 M contract there taking up the space and guys thinking they are playing for 2nd and 3rd option shots on a ok team. That won't make stars sign. They need to establish a brand new identity, a team that's young, with guys like Randle on the way up with #1 and #2 option roles up for grabs. It'll be interesting to see if we still have no shot at improving with a FA plan after that.
BTW, IMO, a top 5 pick this year helps the cause even more. Brilliant if we can get it. Won't be easy though.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
On one of Phil's books I read that Phil in speaking with Dr Buss was often aware of FA's the Lakers wanted years ahead. He also alluded to how Dr Buss wanted 2 all-star Laker represents at the ASG above all. There were clear cut goals and targets in mind.
It seems this current regime is trying the same thing. They're looking to add all-star talent and are using the FA process to attain them. To be fair, they thought they already had the goundworks when they traded for Dwight in 2012. Dwight was their "core" all-star for the next 5-6 years. Kobe (at least at that time had mentioned about retiring in 2 years) retires by 2014. Lakers have FA capspace to lure in new FA's and bring in new star talent. In the mix somewhere they had to make a decision with what to do with Pau. I know few agree, but when you lose a top 10 player and an all-star like that, few teams recover quickly. It takes the team about 10 steps back.
So now when Dwight walks, Kobe announces he wants to play 2 more years and Pau is an impending FA, Lakers don't really have ground work anymore to get the FA's. What can they pitch roster wise in a FA recruitment plan? Melo said he liked LA's pitch business wise but the roster wasn't going to be any good. Why leave mediocrity in NY to go get same mediocrity in LA for less money? I wouldn't be surprised if most FA's viewed Lakers this way in 2014 and 2015.
It comes down to this for me. Until Kobe retires, Lakers are stuck. They simple have no realistic means to sign all-stars even though they hope someone will grab that max offer in the summers. They need to wait it out. Their vision may be viewed as invisible until they can get out of the Kobe era.
They can still try to compete. Sign some B rated stars to shorter contracts. No Jordan Hill is not a B rated star. You telling me Thomas wouldn't of taken 2 contract at a larger amount?
The not competing part sucks...like really sucks.....
Even in the early to mid 90s we tried our best to compete...
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