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lakersken80
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Dominator
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Joined: 19 Nov 2005
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Location: Irvine
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 Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| We really dodged a bullet when he turned us down. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dominator wrote: | | We really dodged a bullet when he turned us down. |
Didn't want the Lakers anywhere near that contract.
BTW, this is a blessing for NY. Unless I'm mistaken they finally have a draft pick. They not only are really bad, they are bad enough that as of now they have a shot at the top 3 pick. They haven't had a franchise altering draft pick in what decades? They need that like fish need water.
Most of the disgruntled players are carry overs from the last 2-3 years and most are gone at season's end. Melo is Melo, but in fairness to him his supporting cast is just as bad as Kobe's this season. |
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Steve007
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13224
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't be surprised if they are jealous of him, even if there is a lot of truth to their criticisms of him. He makes a lot more money and gets a lot more attention than anyone else on that team. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| The players vs. the Triangle dynamic was about the most predictable thing in the NBA this year. Wonder what the resolution to that is gonna be. They've dropped a full 10 spots in efficiency this year. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | The players vs. the Triangle dynamic was about the most predictable thing in the NBA this year. Wonder what the resolution to that is gonna be. They've dropped a full 10 spots in efficiency this year. |
Yeah, they look awful. In a weird way, they kind of look like us. One superstar name and some other guys.
I still think both teams should be better than their records.
Also, with the triangle, it can also be one of those things where it all just clicks. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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The other thing at doesn't get talked about is Phil's biggest transaction, where he traded an elite pick and roll and overall defensive big so he could get a "triangle friendly point guard. The return of Chandler is a bigger coup for Dallas than the poaching of Parsons.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't understand why Phil and Fish imposed the tri on a team that lacked the personnel to properly run the tri.
My lone takeaway is that I'm glad the front office failed to recruit Carmelo Anthony. If there's a silver lining to ineptitude, it is this.
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Billion year old carbon
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Caught in the devil's bargain
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | I really don't understand why Phil and Fish imposed the tri on a team that lacked the personnel to properly run the tri. |
You don't? I think it simply comes down to the fact that PJ doesn't accept that the triangle has never enjoyed much success unless he and Tex were coaching it. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | I really don't understand why Phil and Fish imposed the tri on a team that lacked the personnel to properly run the tri.
My lone takeaway is that I'm glad the front office failed to recruit Carmelo Anthony. If there's a silver lining to ineptitude, it is this. |
One trick pony? Of all the guys in the NBA, Melo is one of the ones that I would least be afraid of physically hurting me.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | I really don't understand why Phil and Fish imposed the tri on a team that lacked the personnel to properly run the tri. |
You don't? I think it simply comes down to the fact that PJ doesn't accept that the triangle has never enjoyed much success unless he and Tex were coaching it. |
Given its previous lack of success, yes. I would have thought that was one of the most obvious takeaways.
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And we've got to get ourselves
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | The other thing at doesn't get talked about is Phil's biggest transaction, where he traded an elite pick and roll and overall defensive big so he could get a "triangle friendly point guard. The return of Chandler is a bigger coup for Dallas than the poaching of Parsons. |
That was a real head scratcher. Phil's comments when Howard were here basically said he would give him enough touches to make him play defense, to be Kobe's Tyson Chandler. Then he has the real Chandler and trades him for a PG like Calderon. Interesting that Ellington was also traded to the Knicks in that deal.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | I really don't understand why Phil and Fish imposed the tri on a team that lacked the personnel to properly run the tri.
My lone takeaway is that I'm glad the front office failed to recruit Carmelo Anthony. If there's a silver lining to ineptitude, it is this. |
One trick pony? Of all the guys in the NBA, Melo is one of the ones that I would least be afraid of physically hurting me. |
Probably true. He strikes me (pun intended) as one of those guys who sprayed too much cologne in the locker room.
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Oliver Reed
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hilarious how many people on here wanted Lance Stephenson and Melo and Phil to run the show. Lakers right now are 3 for 3 by not getting those guys. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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NY needs house cleaning. The younger players who will stick moving forward are gaining valuable Tri experience as is Melo. Phil's faith in Melo may be his main mistake in this. I don't think Fisher incorp. the Tri will hurt them longterm at all. So say Melo doesn't run Tri this year. When will he learn it? Next year 101? Instead next year he's got a much much better grasp of it. What NY lacks is the playmakers the Bulls, Lakers had with Pippen/Kukoc and Odom/Gasol. Kobe/Jordan were much much better passers than Melo.
I have friends who are NY Knicks fans and they are giddy about this coming summer - they see a top 5-7 pick and tons of capspace.. They want to start over and can finally bring in pieces they never could before. They don't seem to mind the losing since they want to see a complete overhaul.
Won't judge Jackson's moves until after next summer. If he bombs in how he uses his team's FA money and who they draft in the lotto, certainly will prove his doubters correct. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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We'll see wolf. Had Phil been the Lakers coach vs. MDA, he could have pulled it off as we still have tri-ready personnel. Previously Phil succeeded in both Chicago as he inherited true triple threat players, and in LA he inherited the most dominant low post player of the era as well as stellar perimeter talent. That isn't the case in NYC. Perhaps he should have contented himself with running a few tri plays from time to time, but if Jim Cleamons is a guide he should have realized that the roster has to fit the system.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | I really don't understand why Phil and Fish imposed the tri on a team that lacked the personnel to properly run the tri. |
You don't? I think it simply comes down to the fact that PJ doesn't accept that the triangle has never enjoyed much success unless he and Tex were coaching it. |
Given its previous lack of success, yes. I would have thought that was one of the most obvious takeaways. |
The problem with this type of thinking - ok lets assume they run the standard S/R most teams run. Melo has played in that sort of O under Karl and MDA and even Woodson. He's basically played that type of O his entire career. This team is almost the exact same team as last year Knicks, without Tyson. So when they ran a different O last year, what was the result? I believe they were really bad for half the season, went on a run late in the year and wound up in the lottery. So assuming they make players on this team happy, the net gain is what? 35-40 wins? That's nothing to aim for. Instead you maybe lose more games this year (and gain lottery position in the draft) and also get Melo valuable Tri experience (as do some younger players you may wanna keep).
It could still lead to exactly the same thing a year from now, but if you make some good moves in the summer and actually have a good team, Melo now has a year of Tri under his belt and you know the offense much better. It gives you a better starting point. All of this is assuming they are thinking that far ahead. I agree there are little gains to be running it this season.
| Quote: | | That isn't the case in NYC. Perhaps he should have contented himself with running a few tri plays from time to time, but if Jim Cleamons is a guide he should have realized that the roster has to fit the system. |
Definitely agree with what you are saying. What I'm thinking is he already knows they don't fit and wants the Tri experience for the players who are going to matter next year. I could be wrong, but I'd like to see how they're playing a year from now with a different roster and Melo having Tri experience.
In general though, I just don't like Melo that much as a player. The very fact that he would have to be the best player in any NY success plan leads me to think that this won't end very well for Phil.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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As I said wolf, a few tri plays would have sufficed. I think that group is so limited they need a transitory period before more tri-capable players are signed or drafted.
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We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
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Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | As I said wolf, a few tri plays would have sufficed. I think that group is so limited they need a transitory period before more tri-capable players are signed or drafted. |
Gotya. Agreed. Certainly if they want to win more games with the talent they have, it had to be brought along slowly. I totally agree this is not a Tri friendly team. No facilitators. No real playmakers around Melo. And Melo himself is not like Kobe/Jordan in having ability to be the team's #1 scorer and #1 playmaker in the Tri. |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Alright offer Nash and Lin to NY for Melo.
Linsanity 2.0
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Alright offer Nash and Lin to NY for Melo.
Linsanity 2.0 |
Lakers would definitely do that, I doubt Phil is going to make that move.... |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Houston all over again for them. Not in terms of attitude, but in terms of a $100+ million for a guy going into his 30's, then his game heads south and becomes a toxic contract. Lakers dodged it for sure. Heck even Amare got his last big deal with the Knicks, right? |
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Shaber
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Yeah, they look awful. In a weird way, they kind of look like us. One superstar name and some other guys. |
Kind of proves (again) that this model just does not work.
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Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | The other thing at doesn't get talked about is Phil's biggest transaction, where he traded an elite pick and roll and overall defensive big so he could get a "triangle friendly point guard. The return of Chandler is a bigger coup for Dallas than the poaching of Parsons. |
From reports the chemistry issue was Carmelo really hates Tyson, and Melo was a free agent.
From a practical sense though, i think being bad, hoping to sign a free agent and then having a high pick to trade for that last guy (ala Cleveland) is probably better than winning 35 games and making the east 8th seed.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | From a practical sense though, i think being bad, hoping to sign a free agent and then having a high pick to trade for that last guy (ala Cleveland) is probably better than winning 35 games and making the east 8th seed. |
Phil would be foolish to trade the pick. The Knicks need a young draft pick who can develop for them as a core player as bad as any team ever has. They have literally no one to move forward it for the cheap. This draft pick could be that player, just like Julius Randle could be for us. If Phil trades this pick, he's only proving his doubters right by following the highly successful (sic) path of his predecessors like Isiah Thomas and Walsh who just kept trading picks for the "name" players.
It's also imperative that he not blow the capspace on a player like Amare. Everyone celebrated in NY when Amare got his 100 M/5 and I was like WTH? He didn't show himself to be that sort of player in PHX. And his health was shaky. So what Phil does with the capspace money and the lottery pick will define his tenure there IMO. Re-signing Melo to me was something he had to do, as in it was part of the job agreement with Dolan. You don't let Melo walk, if you've come in specifically to get him to stay and re-build the franchise. Now in 2-3 years if Melo doesn't pan out, maybe you try to trade out of that contract. Anyway, the real test will be what happens in summer 2015 and possibly 2016 for them. |
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