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bws94
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 1563
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 Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | Scott has succeeded in reducing Lin's contributions to Ronnie Price levels. I wonder what his next trick will be? Maybe he'll turn Hill into Sacre? |
He's headed in that direction. Remember when Hill was a reliable double-double just about every game? Hill is trying but the offense isn't taking full advantage of getting him in the right position. In fact, hardly anyone is in the right position. It's an ugly situation. |
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koen
Sixth Man
Joined: 11 Nov 2014
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| What's going to be Byron's new starting line up after 17 more games? Lakers are out of bench players....maybe he can start Nash and Randle in wheelchairs? |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23913
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| terpski wrote: | | How about cutting Kobe's minutes late in the game and letting Lin loose with Davis? C'mon B.Scott, you tried everything else! |
Kobe isn't going to get fewer minutes unless he specifically requests that. Byron is not in charge of Kobe. |
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Honeybadger81
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Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 1253
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | terpski wrote: | | How about cutting Kobe's minutes late in the game and letting Lin loose with Davis? C'mon B.Scott, you tried everything else! |
Kobe isn't going to get fewer minutes unless he specifically requests that. Byron is not in charge of Kobe. |
even if he reduces kobe's minutes, he will not increase Lin's minutes, it is very obvious... |
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bws94
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 1563
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| koen wrote: | | What's going to be Byron's new starting line up after 17 more games? Lakers are out of bench players....maybe he can start Nash and Randle in wheelchairs? |
shhh. Don't give him any ideas. |
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Quartz888
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jun 2013
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakersprime wrote: | | Quartz888 wrote: | | If they don't want Lin as a starter, they need to get a better startingPG than Price. |
I agree with you but who wants to be here? |
There must be someone out there.  |
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Quartz888
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Joined: 30 Jun 2013
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| sullenberger wrote: | | Quartz888 wrote: | | If they don't want Lin as a starter, they need to get a better startingPG than Price. |
Price is not a starter material. Kobe is a shooting guard and aging. Playing PG is too much for him and affect his shooting percentage.
Either get a new PG or start JLin. |
Yeah we're giving Kobe more responsibilities because he's only 26 years old. Smh. |
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Honeybadger81
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Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 1253
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quartz888 wrote: | | Lakersprime wrote: | | Quartz888 wrote: | | If they don't want Lin as a starter, they need to get a better startingPG than Price. |
I agree with you but who wants to be here? |
There must be someone out there. |
i am pretty sure Isaiah Thomas would like to start in the lakers, and he will do just fine with Byron... not sure if Kobe will like it since he does not defend... for Byron, you don't need to really defend, you just run your quick feet, seem to be hustling, there you pass the eye test... |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| koen wrote: | | What's going to be Byron's new starting line up after 17 more games? Lakers are out of bench players....maybe he can start Nash and Randle in wheelchairs? |
I was going to try to respond with a joke lineup of our suckiest players and Kobe... but the only change to his current lineup would be Sacre. |
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TDRock
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Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 49188
Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| So I missed the live broadcast, just got home and tuned into the re-run and the current score is 6-26 Pacers. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess we lost this one? Lol... Ah boy... |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38790
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: | | So I missed the live broadcast, just got home and tuned into the re-run and the current score is 6-26 Pacers. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess we lost this one? Lol... Ah boy... |
6-26 is not the worst of it....  |
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Beto
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Joined: 12 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Just wondering: what kind of case do you think Lin could make? If he plays out of his mind the next 20 games, will Scott put Lin in the starting lineup or just say that benching Lin finally has motivated Lin to play hard? From previous games this season, playing well seems to lead to Lin being benched more than playing lukewarm.
| Honeybadger81 wrote: | | catman2u wrote: | | Sleepy wrote: | | Lin not making much of a case to be a starter, that's for sure. |
Lin needs to be in with Davis. He also needs players cutting thru the lanes, not standing around for long 2's. The Laker offense is the worst. Lin at least tries to attack the basket but it helps if his team mates set up picks to open driving lanes. Its a team game but there is no team work on the Lakers. |
Lin certainly is not making a case for himself... played an lethargic game, no energy, no passion... |
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nashftw
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Joined: 19 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Honeybadger81 wrote: | | Lakersprime wrote: | | Misaeng wrote: | Byron Scott's post game interview. "We lack focus. Didn't play hard enough. You know about the animals in the zoo? They are staring right back at you. I'm going to make some changes. Not yet but I'm getting there."
Seriously, the team is bad enough without a (bleep) offensive scheme combined with a (bleep) defensive scheme along with questionable rotations and outdated playbook. |
Make some changes again? Scott actually is an assistant coach and has to consult with Kobe before making the decision. |
he was mocking Byron... |
for once, after Scott says his usual line of "i'm gonna make some more changes" or "i did not like the effort etc" to sound intelligently cryptic, maybe some reporter should straight up ask him -- what is it exactly that each player is deficient in so that everyone else can measure what we see versus BS' expectations. it's ok if he says outright that Kobe can shoot all he wants and relax a bit on defense because he has earned that, but he has to make that clear so that everyone will not be left wondering, including his own players.
otherwise, everything he says seems to have no meaning or purpose other than to make himself seem mysterious, or to continuously give props to Kobe. you're running a whole team for crying out loud. |
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TDRock
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Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 49188
Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | TDRock wrote: | | So I missed the live broadcast, just got home and tuned into the re-run and the current score is 6-26 Pacers. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess we lost this one? Lol... Ah boy... |
6-26 is not the worst of it.... |
Nope. Sho wasn't. |
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terpski
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Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| nashftw wrote: | | Honeybadger81 wrote: | | Lakersprime wrote: | | Misaeng wrote: | Byron Scott's post game interview. "We lack focus. Didn't play hard enough. You know about the animals in the zoo? They are staring right back at you. I'm going to make some changes. Not yet but I'm getting there."
Seriously, the team is bad enough without a (bleep) offensive scheme combined with a (bleep) defensive scheme along with questionable rotations and outdated playbook. |
Make some changes again? Scott actually is an assistant coach and has to consult with Kobe before making the decision. |
he was mocking Byron... |
for once, after Scott says his usual line of "i'm gonna make some more changes" or "i did not like the effort etc" to sound intelligently cryptic, maybe some reporter should straight up ask him -- what is it exactly that each player is deficient in so that everyone else can measure what we see versus BS' expectations. it's ok if he says outright that Kobe can shoot all he wants and relax a bit on defense because he has earned that, but he has to make that clear so that everyone will not be left wondering, including his own players.
otherwise, everything he says seems to have no meaning or purpose other than to make himself seem mysterious, or to continuously give props to Kobe. you're running a whole team for crying out loud. |
B.Scott's comments at the end of games are meaningless. He holds Kobe to one standard and everyone else to another standard. It's clear B.Scoot has favorites and he acts on his favoritism to the detriment of this team. Meanwhile Kupchak and the Busses act like they don't know anything and do nothing. |
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cthroatgtr
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Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:28 am Post subject: |
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You can (bleep) about the coach all you want, but there isn't much talent on this team. Lin doesn't look great. His sole approach is drive the lane and sometimes it works and sometimes he gets bottled up and he either makes an awful shot attempt or passes to no one.
D'Antoni makes PG look special. Steve Blake under D'Antoni was playing at all star levels....I mean Steve friggin' Blake. Lin has proven in Houston and LA he isn't all that special. Just a 1 hit wonder. Kobe is Kobe (for better or worse now) and Swaggy can bring some offensive punch. Boozer is actually playing better off of the bench and can score for you. Beyond that, I mean that's about it isn't it? Davis can block some shots and Wes will play a good game right after you write him off, but I mean Ronnie Price is the other PG.
Sorry but no coach can make this team a winner. Cupboard is bare folks. Amazing they have won the games they have. |
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cthroatgtr
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Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Forgot Hill...on any other team he is bench energy, hustle and rebounds. On the Lakers he is a starting center??? |
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LakersMDGurl
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 18015
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: |
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We need to get Isiah Thomas from the Suns, think they' d bite? Give them Lin.
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13th Man
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe is great but he said it himself that he needs a pg that would help take the load off of him. Instead, BS does the opposite. |
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jlinfan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| nashftw wrote: | | Honeybadger81 wrote: | | Lakersprime wrote: | | Misaeng wrote: | Byron Scott's post game interview. "We lack focus. Didn't play hard enough. You know about the animals in the zoo? They are staring right back at you. I'm going to make some changes. Not yet but I'm getting there."
Seriously, the team is bad enough without a (bleep) offensive scheme combined with a (bleep) defensive scheme along with questionable rotations and outdated playbook. |
Make some changes again? Scott actually is an assistant coach and has to consult with Kobe before making the decision. |
he was mocking Byron... |
for once, after Scott says his usual line of "i'm gonna make some more changes" or "i did not like the effort etc" to sound intelligently cryptic, maybe some reporter should straight up ask him -- what is it exactly that each player is deficient in so that everyone else can measure what we see versus BS' expectations. it's ok if he says outright that Kobe can shoot all he wants and relax a bit on defense because he has earned that, but he has to make that clear so that everyone will not be left wondering, including his own players.
otherwise, everything he says seems to have no meaning or purpose other than to make himself seem mysterious, or to continuously give props to Kobe. you're running a whole team for crying out loud. |
BS was referencing Boozer and Lin when talking about making lineup changes last round. This time who is he referencing? I'm guessing he likes the starting unit so he can only be talking about the bench. Which means Lin to deep bench?
I've got my popcorn ready. |
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JLinfanJoe
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Remember earlier game when Byron Scott was furious and said changes were coming?
He specifically referred to one player as "entitled" (starter position safe because of injuries at that position) and one player was "tired" and could only play 8 minutes at a time.
Then a day later, he backed off and said he would just have a shorter leash, pulling players earlier, but not shaking up starting line up.
My guess for whom Byron Scott was referring to then was Wes Johnson ("entitled") and Jordan Hill ("tired" and not able to play more than 8 minutes at a time).
And as a Lin fan, what I see is Lin being unfairly blamed for mental mistakes and lack of effort by others on the team, especially on the defensive end. (e. g. to this uneducated eye, the ultimate problem with Wes Johnson is that he doesn't know where to go when set defense breaks down into a scramble to recover situation and he has to figure out what to do on his own, like in transition, or when Lakers half court defense looked so jumbled and congested at times earlier in season, and ultimate problem with Jordan Hill is that he lacks the foot speed to successfully hard show for his point guard (Lin or Price), and then be able to successfully recover back to his own man or protect the rim). Patrick Beverley or Rajon Rondo may be able to hide the fundamental flaw better than Lin, but seems like good team like Spurs, Mavericks, Grizzlies, will ruthlessly and systematically exploit it at end of any close game in playoffs. I think Suns did this second loss, as did Grizzlies second game, and perhaps even Wizards when game started to get away from Lakers (?)
Perhaps Lin can't apply the type of ball pressure Ronnie Price can, but Ronnie Price Lakers have reverted to what they looked like in pre-season, scoring perhaps 20 points per quarter.
How many games would the Spurs win in the West if they scored at that type of pace?
(I would also say that Byron Scott coaching style of very deliberate offense, no turnovers or bad shots leading to long rebounds and easy buckets for other team, then iso-Kobe to close out close game in fourth, really needs to be in the Eastern Conference. They would have to play perfectly on defense through three high powered Western Conference teams just to get to Finals, vs. maybe only one team like that in East to get to Finals).
Look at the records of teams Byron Scott / Jason Kidd led Nets went through to get to the finals, vs. the 60+ win teams and eventual champion teams Steve Nash led Mavericks went through:
| Quote: | "There then comes the issue that not all championships or finals appearances can be considered equal. To show this, let’s look at the teams JASON KIDD and the Nets beat to make the finals.
2002- Beat the 42 win Pacers 3-2, beat the 44 win Hornets 4-1, beat the 49 win celtics 4-2. Got swept by the 58 win Lakers.
2003- Best the 42 wins Bucks 4-2, beat the 44 win Celtics 4-0, and swept the 50 win Pistons. Lost in 6 to the to win Spurs.
Of those, the only truly impressive victory was sweeping the 50 win Pistons. That Pistons team did win the championship the next year, but they had yet to acquire Rasheed Wallace, and Tayshaun Prince was a rookie who played just 42 games and averaged 10 minutes. So it wasn’t the same team at all. Nevertheless, sweeping a 50 win team is always impressive.
So in those 2 years they beat 6 teams with an average of 45 wins between them, and lost to 2 teams with an average of 59 wins.
Now let’s look at STEVE NASH in those same 2 years, and figure out why he never got to meet up with Kidd in the finals.
2002- Beat the 50 win Timberwolves 3-0, lost to 61 win Kings 4-1.
2003- Beat the 50 win Blazers 4-3, beat the 59 win Kings 4-3, lost to the 60 win Spurs 4-2.
So the Mavs beat 3 teams who won an average of 53 games between them, and lost to 2 who won an average of 60.5 games between them."
http://www.fullcourtpest.com/2012/01/in-defence-of-steve-nash-part-2.html |
| Quote: | "Defence is half the game.
This is what most Nash critics will say. As a team, it is definitely true. As a point guard, it is not. Why? Because the amount that a point guard can impact your team defensively at the NBA level with one on one defence is almost insignificant compared to his impact on offence. How often do you see a point guard just try to break down the other point guard one on one in the half court? Not that often except against a choice few guards (Rose, Westbrook come to mind). How many times do they instead try to score via a pick and roll of some sort? Far more often. So really the biggest one on one responsibility of a point guard is pick and roll defence. But how big of a role does he play in this?
On any pick and roll, assuming the opponents run it well and the opposing point guard uses the screen properly, the defence has 3 real options.
Have the screener’s defender stay on his man, and have the point guard go under the screen. This is used mainly when playing against point guards who are uncomfortable shooting distance shots off the dribble, since this strategy gives the point guard a wide open jumper off the top of the screen.
Have the screener’s defender “hedge” quickly to take away the jump shot, giving the time for the point guard to recover on defence. This is probably the most common defence used.
Switch. Have the screener’s defender pick up the point guard and the defending point guard pick up the screener. Most teams don’t do it too often since it generally ends with the offense having 2 mismatches.
So now let’s look at the point guard’s role in these different options.
In option 1, the point guard has to go under the screen and stop the point guard from getting to the rim after going around the screen. In this case the point guard is the primary defender.
In option 2, the point guard still has to recover, but since his teammate is “hedging”, the point guard has plenty of time to get back to his man. The effectiveness of this defence is dependant on how quickly the screener’s defender gets back to his man to deny an easy pass to his man for a layup. In this situation, the screener’s defender (generally a big man), is the primary defender.
In option 3, the actual screen is essentially useless, other than it forces the switch. The other team will then likely have 2 mismatches unless you have a Garnett/Ben Wallace type defender guarding the point guard, and even that might not be enough. However, since the opposing point guard still has the ball, this is the mismatch they are most likely to exploit. So in this situation, the screener’s defender is usually the primary defender.
So even in pick and roll situations the point guard is not the most important defender. And then when you consider that even if the point guard gets beat its not a bad thing so long as he has quality defenders at the rim to funnel his match up to. While obviously you would rather not need help, I think this demonstrates why a point guard cannot possibly impact the game on defence as much as other players, particularly interior players.
Want an example? The Spurs have been the best defensive team of the past 10 years. They were 1st in the league (in terms of points allowed per 100 possessions) 4 times, and near the top a number of other times. They started Tony Parker for the majority of this run, one of the worst defensive starting point guards in the league. Why were they so good? The answer has a lot to do with Tim Duncan and Gregg Poppovich and very little to do with Parker. Orlando was the top defensive team in 2010, they started Jameer Nelsom, a worse defender than Nash. The Bulls last year were number 1 in defence despite having an average (at best) defensive point guard in Rose. The Bulls in the 90s were consistently elite while giving huge minutes to John Paxson and Steve Kerr. On the contrary, The Sonics were 26th defensively in 1999 despite having Gary Payton who is widely considered the best defensive point guard of all time. And this wasn’t post prime Payton, he still averaged 22 and 9, made 1st team defence, and made 3 more all defensive 1stteams after that year. Why were they so bad? Because despite being a great defender, he just couldn’t have as big of an impact on that end as other players, such as Dwight who lead a top 5 defence last year with some of the worst defenders in the league at every position playing big minutes for them. Why? Because a center has a huge impact on team defence, a point guard does not. Nash has not played on a good defensive team in Phoenix, this has very little to do with Nash, and a lot to do with having lazy frontcourt defenders (I’m looking at you Amare) and a poor defensive coach."
http://www.fullcourtpest.com/2012/01/in-defence-of-steve-nash-part-1.html |
To get far in playoffs, Byron Scott really needs to be coaching in the Eastern Conference. |
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LakersMDGurl
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 18015
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| 13th Man wrote: | | Kobe is great but he said it himself that he needs a pg that would help take the load off of him. Instead, BS does the opposite. |
Well that PG is NOT Lin either.. You need a star PG who doesn't care what Kobe thinks. Doesn't pass him the ball every time he calls for it. Kobe can cry about not having a better PG all he wants, fact of the matter is the offense stalls once he gets the ball, everyone is around waiting to see what Kobe does
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pio2u
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Fortunately for us the team cannot play any worse than it did against the lowly Pacers. The team had no energy from start to finish. |
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Vin
Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 6005
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Sleepy wrote: | Can we call it a heat check if Kobe has made 1 in a row?  |
Lol man this thread is a great read. |
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13th Man
Star Player
Joined: 10 Sep 2014
Posts: 1009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMDGurl wrote: | | 13th Man wrote: | | Kobe is great but he said it himself that he needs a pg that would help take the load off of him. Instead, BS does the opposite. |
Well that PG is NOT Lin either.. You need a star PG who doesn't care what Kobe thinks. Doesn't pass him the ball every time he calls for it. Kobe can cry about not having a better PG all he wants, fact of the matter is the offense stalls once he gets the ball, everyone is around waiting to see what Kobe does |
Disagree. Lin did this in 2 games and he was benched both times.
The problem is that Kobe wanted Lin to play a certain way (be more aggressive to take the load off of him) but BS wants him to play another way, he cannot satisfy both at the same time.
They don't need a star PG, they need a PG that understands his role, which is to distribute the ball but not do too much on offense. This is why BS moved Price into the starting lineup. The end result of this system is an over-reliance on Kobe. If Kobe ends up having to do too much, it's on Byron Scott. |
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