Did we take out too much offense from the starting lineup?
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Kobe2Clark
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Did we take out too much offense from the starting lineup?

I really liked Price's defense tonight but he is not a deterrent to teams swarming Kobe and the bigs at all. I think we need Davis' rim protection but Hill and Boozer could switch roles.

Wes suddenly becoming good at 3s is masking the weak starting lineup so hopefully his range is here to stay
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LakerLand247
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject:

Time to create a Byron Scott statue outside of Staples Center cause this guy is a genius! He should definitely donate his brain to science, I mean seriously! Whoever would of thought running a starting 4 instead of the usual 5, would win games. Byron is a legendary coach in the making.






/where is the sarcasm button?
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Captain America
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:17 pm    Post subject:

Well I was happy to see price at least playing defense tonight because usually he does neither. I thought he was pretty effective even if it was against rookies. I'm still waiting to see how that starting five does against full strength legit competition. We will see very soon I guess...
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Honeybadger81
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:18 pm    Post subject:

LakerLand247 wrote:
Time to create a Byron Scott statue outside of Staples Center cause this guy is a genius! He should definitely donate his brain to science, I mean seriously! Whoever would of thought running a starting 4 instead of the usual 5, would win games. Byron is a legendary coach in the making.






/where is the sarcasm button?


lol, you nailed it... starting 4...
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Treble Clef
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject:

Lin and Boozer seem to get more opportunities when their minutes are staggered from Kobe's. In that sense, it seems to make sense to not always have them playing together. When Kobe is in, he can do what he needs to do and the other guys can focus on offensive boards and defense.
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ryan_c
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject:

Price should begin shooting thousand jumps shots just like what Hill did before.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject:

I think DUH is the answer. And I think Byron may be the only coach out of the 200 or so coaches and assistants in the league that doesn't realize it. Ronnie is not going to go against 19 year old rookies every night, but at least we can ensure he plays against backups.
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vankenn
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject:

Ronnie Price avg 1.75pts as a starter in his last 4 games. Seriously?!! Like... seriously!!?!?!!!

Why don't the Lakers get someone from the D-League to play the PG position if you're gonna start a Ronnie nobody freaking Price. Wow! just wow. unreal.

I can see the hate for JLin from the coach but this is beyond stupidity.
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DShotMaker1824
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:42 pm    Post subject:

vankenn wrote:
Ronnie Price avg 1.75pts as a starter in his last 4 games. Seriously?!! Like... seriously!!?!?!!!

Why don't the Lakers get someone from the D-League to play the PG position if you're gonna start a Ronnie nobody freaking Price. Wow! just wow. unreal.

I can see the hate for JLin from the coach but this is beyond stupidity.

We also have J Clarkson.
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vankenn
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject:

diando wrote:
vankenn wrote:
Ronnie Price avg 1.75pts as a starter in his last 4 games. Seriously?!! Like... seriously!!?!?!!!

Why don't the Lakers get someone from the D-League to play the PG position if you're gonna start a Ronnie nobody freaking Price. Wow! just wow. unreal.

I can see the hate for JLin from the coach but this is beyond stupidity.

We also have J Clarkson.


I see Clarkson as a shooter as he loves to shoot. Don't think he can play the PG position but that is sure an upgrade from Price. Let Kobe play the PG and Clarkson as the SG.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject:

I think Ellington starting might be something to try. He is a jumpshooting threat at least
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject:

Scott would care less about offense... but it doesn't make sense seeing how Price is also a terrible defender.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject:

Kobe2Clark wrote:
I think Ellington starting might be something to try. He is a jumpshooting threat at least


who is guarding opposing PGs?
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vankenn
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject:

BTW, this isn't a hate about Kobe but he is only .387% and .275% from 3s for the season. He does throw up a lot of bad shots. Maybe benching Kobe will help the starters? (exaggerating)
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K28
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:14 pm    Post subject:

Ronnie Price makes me pine for Kendall Marshall (aka Vlade's illegitimate love child).
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:17 pm    Post subject:

Price made Lavine struggle. 4 of 15.

Can't tell me PG defense doesn't exist.

Frankly, I don't even care if he scores or not. Boozer is doing far better off the bench.

If you want the starting line up to work better, put Wesley on the pine, start Ellington at 2, with Bryant at 3.
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K28
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Price made Lavine struggle. 4 of 15.

Can't tell me PG defense doesn't exist.

Frankly, I don't even care if he scores or not. Boozer is doing far better off the bench.

If you want the starting line up to work better, put Wesley on the pine, start Ellington at 2, with Bryant at 3.


Lavine is a 2 being forced to play point. He's a pretty easy cover. Price is significantly less effective against most starting points in this league.

In fact, I would say that Lin is quietly more effective defensively. He won't belly up like Price does or try to force steals, but he plays better sound position D and is a better team/help defender too. Better rebounder...and of course his offense is much better.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject:

kray28_ wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Price made Lavine struggle. 4 of 15.

Can't tell me PG defense doesn't exist.

Frankly, I don't even care if he scores or not. Boozer is doing far better off the bench.

If you want the starting line up to work better, put Wesley on the pine, start Ellington at 2, with Bryant at 3.


Lavine is a 2 being forced to play point. He's a pretty easy cover. Price is significantly less effective against most starting points in this league.

In fact, I would say that Lin is quietly more effective defensively. He won't belly up like Price does or try to force steals, but he plays better sound position D and is a better team/help defender too. Better rebounder...and of course his offense is much better.


Nope.

Lavine played PG all throughout HS. There were just better PGs at UCLA.

If he was such an easy cover, why did he explode for 11 of 14 the last game against the Lakers?

There's no contest who plays better position defense. It's easily Ronnie Price hands down. Lin goes behind screens and only bodies up when his opponent actually drives.

Price bodies up right at the three-point line and keeps his feet moving to stay away from fouls.

Frankly, offensive output at PG doesn't matter, because offense wasn't the issue with the Lakers.

It's defense.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject:

Lavine is a rookie. He just got a pair of hot hands last time they(he and Jeremy) met. Any experienced defender can stop a rookie PG. Just saying.
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K28
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Price made Lavine struggle. 4 of 15.

Can't tell me PG defense doesn't exist.

Frankly, I don't even care if he scores or not. Boozer is doing far better off the bench.

If you want the starting line up to work better, put Wesley on the pine, start Ellington at 2, with Bryant at 3.


Lavine is a 2 being forced to play point. He's a pretty easy cover. Price is significantly less effective against most starting points in this league.

In fact, I would say that Lin is quietly more effective defensively. He won't belly up like Price does or try to force steals, but he plays better sound position D and is a better team/help defender too. Better rebounder...and of course his offense is much better.


Nope.

Lavine played PG all throughout HS. There were just better PGs at UCLA.

If he was such an easy cover, why did he explode for 11 of 14 the last game against the Lakers?

There's no contest who plays better position defense. It's easily Ronnie Price hands down. Lin goes behind screens and only bodies up when his opponent actually drives.

Price bodies up right at the three-point line and keeps his feet moving to stay away from fouls.

Frankly, offensive output at PG doesn't matter, because offense wasn't the issue with the Lakers.

It's defense.


The way the first quarter unfolded doesn't support your claim. You're right that Price gave Lavine a hard time....but on the offensive side things were so bogged down that the Lakers were down 6 early on before the first subs came in. It's the same problem....whoever's covering Ronnie cheats off and sags on Kobe...who predicatably started off 0-4 with two defenders draped over him.
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Lorenzomax
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject:

Last time they met... Lavine was also lighting up Price in the 1st half. He scored 7~8 straight pts against Price until Lin came back in.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Price made Lavine struggle. 4 of 15.

Can't tell me PG defense doesn't exist.

Frankly, I don't even care if he scores or not. Boozer is doing far better off the bench.

If you want the starting line up to work better, put Wesley on the pine, start Ellington at 2, with Bryant at 3.


Lavine is a 2 being forced to play point. He's a pretty easy cover. Price is significantly less effective against most starting points in this league.

In fact, I would say that Lin is quietly more effective defensively. He won't belly up like Price does or try to force steals, but he plays better sound position D and is a better team/help defender too. Better rebounder...and of course his offense is much better.


Nope.

Lavine played PG all throughout HS. There were just better PGs at UCLA.

If he was such an easy cover, why did he explode for 11 of 14 the last game against the Lakers?


There's no contest who plays better position defense. It's easily Ronnie Price hands down. Lin goes behind screens and only bodies up when his opponent actually drives.

Price bodies up right at the three-point line and keeps his feet moving to stay away from fouls.

Frankly, offensive output at PG doesn't matter, because offense wasn't the issue with the Lakers.

It's defense.


Lavine is a good rookie, he will be inconsistent, he will have games where he will shoot lights out and games where he will look like crap.

last game he shot lights out 2 for 2 in 3 point shot and 4-4 free throw and midrange shots all falling.

This game Shabbazz scored 28 points in 27 minutes. but last game shabbazz was only 1-5.



Main difference for Lavine this game:

1st game: lavine was 6/6 in the paint

2nd game: Lavine is 3/8 in the paint

this is where lavine gets most his points from. this game lavine got into the paint more times than last time. but yet made less. the difference? its the INTERIOR DEFENSE! not price not lin. but Ed davis for Boozer.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:52 pm    Post subject:

vankenn wrote:
BTW, this isn't a hate about Kobe but he is only .387% and .275% from 3s for the season. He does throw up a lot of bad shots. Maybe benching Kobe will help the starters? (exaggerating)


What bad shots did he take tonight? Kobe is just missing a lot of his normal jumpers while not getting easy points at the rim.

Would be nice to see him somehow get it to 41% though
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:02 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Price made Lavine struggle. 4 of 15.

Can't tell me PG defense doesn't exist.

Frankly, I don't even care if he scores or not. Boozer is doing far better off the bench.

If you want the starting line up to work better, put Wesley on the pine, start Ellington at 2, with Bryant at 3.


Lavine played 39 minutes, Ronnie 25 minutes... it should be Ronnie and Jeremy forced Lavine 4-15

i rewatched lavine's 15 shots, two on Ronnie, one right in front of him, one blew by him, two on fast breaks when Jeremy were on the court...
overall, it really was not what Ronnie and Lin did to him, he purely missed one after another...


Last edited by Honeybadger81 on Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sonic the laker
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject:

In all honesty, B.Scott is trying to do his best, with a limited roster. And, it's showing with the Lakers actually putting together a clump of wins, instead of the initial loss, after loss, after loss.

And, I can see why Byron switched up the lineup like he did....

Starter: PG- R.Price
SG- K.Bryant
SF- W.Johnson
PF- E.Davis
C- J.Hill

The starter lineup is full of hustle/energy players, who primarily play defense. With this lineup, Kobe is the initiates/directs the offense. The only thing the rest of the starters should focus on is being in the right spots to receive passes for open shots, play defense, and play the boards.

Bench: PG- J.Lin
SG- W.Ellington
SF- N.Young
PF- C.Boozer
C- R.Sacre

The bench carries most of the teams offensive power, aside for Kobe. Their primary goal is to score, and to keep the Lakers in the game, while the starters rest. Not big on defense, but offense is no problem.

In addition to the stated reasons above, I can speculate on other reasons why B.Scott made the lineup changes. It was apparent that despite encouragement to do so, Lin is just not as aggressive with his game, playing with Kobe for extended minutes. Lin is used to having the ball in his hands, the same as Kobe. Lin likes to play up/down ball, with pick and rolls, here and there. Kobe likes to go iso, with the occasional pick. The two different styles were not meshing, as hoped.

That problem was solved by moving Lin to lead the bench. That freed up both players to play their style of ball, w/o clashing with each other. Boozer was moved because his lack of defense was just appalling. But, as a bench player, he's shining.

It's unfortunate that it took B.Scott this long to figure the team out, but it is what it is. At least it shows that the man is capable, despite the cries for his head. Honestly, if the Lakers were able to strengthen at least a couple of positions this season (R.Price, R.Sacre), then the Lakers may actually be halfway decent.

But, if the Lakers improved, would they actually threaten to get into the playoffs, and pose a threat? Or, just be a semi-decent team on the outside looking in....with no draft pick? I'm sure that's what the FO is discussing amongst themselves, right now. Try to get good, or stay bad.


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