Kobe is and has been a great player. But he is not as good as Michael Jordan. Very few players will ever be as good as Jordan. Jordan was a pure shooter; Kobe is a good volume shooter.
Although Reggie Miller's statement was silly, the intent was accurate and appreciated. Michael was a much better player than Kobe Bryant.
You're not in Reggie Miller's mind so you can't know what his intent was,you can appreciate what he said,that's your prerogative and your own business.
Miller's statement was not accurate but asinine.
Correction,utterly asinine.
I think another factor which plays a role in why MJ will be considered "better" is because he accomplished so much yet, leaves room for reasonable speculation that he could have done even more.
Meanwhile, with Kobe, he's played every season essentially, so there is no room for speculation and so his story has clear bounds.
6 games played coming back from severe injury is not "essentially".
Why the constant need to twist the truth to make your point about the guy?
The sensitivity is real and clouding your judgment on this one. Twist the truth? You clearly misunderstood my post. I'm speculating as to why Kobe falls short relative to Jordan for many people. That's why I put the word better in quotes. I'm not saying WHY he falls short.
And Kobe's played I think, a season's worth of games in 17 out of 18 seasons which is over 94%.
My point is that people can look at what Jordan actually accomplished and it still feels a little incomplete given his absence in some years. But with Kobe, he didn't really miss any time, and even the one season he did, we were clearly not a contender so there's little to wonder in that regard.
And so I'm speculating, that one reason that some people might give Jordan the edge, is because they're thinking at worst he accomplished the same, at best he accomplished more, and yet, had he not been hurt in 1986, missed time in 1993-1994 and didn't retire at the young age of 34, he could have done even more. It's more challenging to think that way with Kobe because he's played in essentially every season where he'd have had a reasonable chance to further this legacy.
FWIW, this isn't the reason I give Jordan the edge, I was just trying to think of other explanations as to why others might.
I think another factor which plays a role in why MJ will be considered "better" is because he accomplished so much yet, leaves room for reasonable speculation that he could have done even more.
Meanwhile, with Kobe, he's played every season essentially, so there is no room for speculation and so his story has clear bounds.
6 games played coming back from severe injury is not "essentially".
Why the constant need to twist the truth to make your point about the guy?
The sensitivity is real and clouding your judgment on this one. Twist the truth? You clearly misunderstood my post. I'm speculating as to why Kobe falls short relative to Jordan for many people. That's why I put the word better in quotes. I'm not saying WHY he falls short.
And Kobe's played I think, a season's worth of games in 17 out of 18 seasons which is over 94%.
My point is that people can look at what Jordan actually accomplished and it still feels a little incomplete given his absence in some years. But with Kobe, he didn't really miss any time, and even the one season he did, we were clearly not a contender so there's little to wonder in that regard.
And so I'm speculating, that one reason that some people might give Jordan the edge, is because they're thinking at worst he accomplished the same, at best he accomplished more, and yet, had he not been hurt in 1986, missed time in 1993-1994 and didn't retire at the young age of 34, he could have done even more. It's more challenging to think that way with Kobe because he's played in essentially every season where he'd have had a reasonable chance to further this legacy.
FWIW, this isn't the reason I give Jordan the edge, I was just trying to think of other explanations as to why others might.
This reminds me of those old arguments with the "what if" Bynum crowd.
You're using speculation to make your case but you aren't considering the other end of the stick. He could've also played in 93-94 and had a career ending injury and never been the Jordan he is today.
There's nothing wrong with using the 6 rings, multiple MVP's, DPOY, etc to make a case for Jordan without it hurting Kobe's legacy. But at least those are facts, and not some "what-if" theories.
Now give us reasons why you think some consider Kobe to be "better"...
I think another factor which plays a role in why MJ will be considered "better" is because he accomplished so much yet, leaves room for reasonable speculation that he could have done even more.
Meanwhile, with Kobe, he's played every season essentially, so there is no room for speculation and so his story has clear bounds.
6 games played coming back from severe injury is not "essentially".
Why the constant need to twist the truth to make your point about the guy?
The sensitivity is real and clouding your judgment on this one. Twist the truth? You clearly misunderstood my post. I'm speculating as to why Kobe falls short relative to Jordan for many people. That's why I put the word better in quotes. I'm not saying WHY he falls short.
And Kobe's played I think, a season's worth of games in 17 out of 18 seasons which is over 94%.
My point is that people can look at what Jordan actually accomplished and it still feels a little incomplete given his absence in some years. But with Kobe, he didn't really miss any time, and even the one season he did, we were clearly not a contender so there's little to wonder in that regard.
And so I'm speculating, that one reason that some people might give Jordan the edge, is because they're thinking at worst he accomplished the same, at best he accomplished more, and yet, had he not been hurt in 1986, missed time in 1993-1994 and didn't retire at the young age of 34, he could have done even more. It's more challenging to think that way with Kobe because he's played in essentially every season where he'd have had a reasonable chance to further this legacy.
FWIW, this isn't the reason I give Jordan the edge, I was just trying to think of other explanations as to why others might.
This reminds me of those old arguments with the "what if" Bynum crowd.
You're using speculation to make your case but you aren't considering the other end of the stick. He could've also played in 93-94 and had a career ending injury and never been the Jordan he is today.
There's nothing wrong with using the 6 rings, multiple MVP's, DPOY, etc to make a case for Jordan without it hurting Kobe's legacy. But at least those are facts, and not some "what-if" theories.
Now give us reasons why you think some consider Kobe to be "better"...
Speculation to make my case? I'm not making a case either way in that post. I've speculated on why most pundits are steadfast on crowning MJ over Kobe including guys like Carlos Boozer who said as much in the post-game interview. And I think there are factors which might (correctly or incorrectly) sway people in MJ's favor. One being he did it first. And whenever the first, you get a much longer leash. Is it fair? Debatable. The other is, he has gaps which allows someone to say if filled, it COULD have been more but even if he did get an injury like you said and you discount those gaps, he'd still have his 6 rings and DPOY and 10 scoring titles in his 13 seasons as a Chicago Bull. Is it fair? Debatable.
As for why some people think Kobe is better? When you say people, are you saying non-Laker fans? Because I think the majority of people who think Kobe is better than MJ, are Laker fans. I mean, even current Laker players think MJ is better. But outside of those? I think media exposure has some to do with it (though, I agree with the point that can go both ways but MJ did not have 21 million people subscribing to receive regular brand updates). I think the arguments about whether Kobe was better offensively have some merit (I believe even Steve Kerr said this once). Some people point to the 81 and 62 and incorrectly use that as the basis for their argument. (One game shouldn't be worth more than 1 season, and Jordan has the best season(s) by far).
But most people don't put Kobe > MJ. Laker fans do, but no one else does really. So it's not that interesting to look at reasons why they do. I'm trying to find reasons beyond rings/stats/accolades/etc that people might put Jordan unfairly ahead of Kobe.
"Most of us in our era think Michael is the greatest player of all-time and right behind him is Kob, so, for him to pass Mike tonight, I'm honored to be a part of that and honored to be a part of this team."
In any event, I don't see why it is a slight, for a person to think Kobe is right behind Michael Jordan of all players.
If to you want to see the true differences between these players you have to look at their psychological approach to the game. It's actually quite simple. Jordan probably has the edge but it's slight. People who are saying Jordan is infinity better than kobe are just as blinded as those who say the opposite.it comes down to this.
Jordan: Ultimate competitor. Will do anything to win, and will do what gives his team best chance to win. At the end of the day he is playing and game and wants to kick everyone's ass
Kobe: sociopath. His goal in life has been to be one of the best players to play the game. Puts so much pressure on himself to accomplish that goal. If his teammates aren't working ad hard as him they are just getting in his way. Will do anything to accomplish that goal. Kobe doesn't want to beat you, he wants to humiliate you. His way or the high way.
I personally think Kobe is more fundamentally sound than Jordan but Jordan is just the smarter player. Kobe's ego gets in the way of his own goals sometime. Jordan had an ego too, but Kobe's life is defined by basketball Jordan's is by competition.
If you put them against each other in their primes on equal teams, flip a coin, that's who will end up winning the game. One on one I think Kobe might have the edge.
Kobe is and has been a great player. But he is not as good as Michael Jordan. Very few players will ever be as good as Jordan. Jordan was a pure shooter; Kobe is a good volume shooter.
Although Reggie Miller's statement was silly, the intent was accurate and appreciated. Michael was a much better player than Kobe Bryant.
You're not in Reggie Miller's mind so you can't know what his intent was,you can appreciate what he said,that's your prerogative and your own business.
Miller's statement was not accurate but asinine.
Correction,utterly asinine.
I may not be in his head, but you didn't play against Kobe and MJ. Reggie Miller did. I'll take his opinion over yours because he has actual experience.
Joined: 21 Mar 2002 Posts: 1408 Location: Long Beach, CA
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:15 am Post subject:
troy wrote:
mixtim wrote:
troy wrote:
There is no comparison.
Kobe is and has been a great player. But he is not as good as Michael Jordan. Very few players will ever be as good as Jordan. Jordan was a pure shooter; Kobe is a good volume shooter.
Although Reggie Miller's statement was silly, the intent was accurate and appreciated. Michael was a much better player than Kobe Bryant.
You're not in Reggie Miller's mind so you can't know what his intent was,you can appreciate what he said,that's your prerogative and your own business.
Miller's statement was not accurate but asinine.
Correction,utterly asinine.
I may not be in his head, but you didn't play against Kobe and MJ. Reggie Miller did. I'll take his opinion over yours because he has actual experience.
I repeat...MJ was a better player than Kobe.
Just because Miller played against both does not make him right. I'm pretty sure if you polled all players who played against both, they would not agree that "MJ on his worst day was 10 times better than Kobe on his best day."
That's an exaggeration and anyone with half a brain knows it.
Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 733 Location: Los Angeles, CA.
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:49 am Post subject:
P.K. wrote:
Cancun Van Exel wrote:
MJ was in college at the same age that Kobe was coming off the bench. Kobe had way more points and experience by the age of 21. That's a wash in my book in terms of either having an advantage based on those set of circumstances.
Also, lets not forget MJ didn't play for a year or two in his prime or he would've scored another 3-6,000 points.
and 1 or 2 more rings
And yet, you don't see anyone adding M.J.'s college years to how long it took him to reach his career point total. It's not a wash. _________________ Blood, sweat, tears,
We dripped all three just to get here.
No longer will I wake up and my dreams just vanished.
It’s staring right at me, I must take advantage.
Do some homers here actually think Kobe is better than Michael Jordan?
John Wooden said Kobe was the greatest ball player of all time. There are more Jordan homers than Kobe homers and that is due to Nike, wheaties, and the constant media hype. Many people in the media are Jordan homers.
Kobe is a better player than Jordan...more skilled, Better shooter, more dominant offensively, better durability and longevity...what helped Jordan boost his stats and accolades was playing in a very watered down era.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject:
ringfinger wrote:
Even his own teammates think MJ > Kobe.
Carlos Boozer on Kobe passing MJ in scoring:
"Most of us in our era think Michael is the greatest player of all-time and right behind him is Kob, so, for him to pass Mike tonight, I'm honored to be a part of that and honored to be a part of this team."
In any event, I don't see why it is a slight, for a person to think Kobe is right behind Michael Jordan of all players.
No slight, just disagreement. Jordan was Jordan, Kobe has been Jordan and Pippen. Still, neither's career holds a candle to Caps. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
MJ himself said Kobe would beat him 1 on 1. Kobe is the clearly more skilled player that has played in a more competitive era than Jordan did.
You've taken that quote completely out of context.
Attached is a link to that video interview.
1. Jordan clearly says "I am the greatest player ever"
2. he's talking about playing 1-1 against OJ Mayo when Mayo was the #1 high school player, and beating him multiple times. repeat the multiple times
3. he's immediately asked after that if he could pllay anyone in his prime, and says he that he'd beat them all. Then he jokingly says, well except Kobe because he stole all my moves. and he smiles and chuckles
3A: he was obviously kidding
3B: he's talking about it right after talking about playing 1-1 against Mayo in the context of multiple games - ie. Kobe might beat me once out of multiple games...and again, he's chuckling about it
MJ quite obviously thinks he's still the greatest that ever played
If you guys are going to keep throwing soundbites out there, at least make sure you're using it in the context that the person quoted meant it
Kobe is and has been a great player. But he is not as good as Michael Jordan. Very few players will ever be as good as Jordan. Jordan was a pure shooter; Kobe is a good volume shooter.
Although Reggie Miller's statement was silly, the intent was accurate and appreciated. Michael was a much better player than Kobe Bryant.
You're not in Reggie Miller's mind so you can't know what his intent was,you can appreciate what he said,that's your prerogative and your own business.
Miller's statement was not accurate but asinine.
Correction,utterly asinine.
I may not be in his head, but you didn't play against Kobe and MJ. Reggie Miller did. I'll take his opinion over yours because he has actual experience.
I repeat...MJ was a better player than Kobe.
And I will take John Wooden's opinion over both you and Reggie Miller as Kobe as the greatest of all time over Jordan.
And it isn't by any means a slight for Jordan to be behind Kobe...were talking about a guy that scored 81 points in a game here...something no other guard has done in the nba. It's not an insult for Jordan to be behind Kobe if you look at what Kobe has accomplished.
And now I can add longevity, 32k 6k 6k club, and 3rd all time points over Jordan to my argument.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject:
P.K. wrote:
PhoenixForce wrote:
MJ himself said Kobe would beat him 1 on 1. Kobe is the clearly more skilled player that has played in a more competitive era than Jordan did.
You've taken that quote completely out of context.
Attached is a link to that video interview.
1. Jordan clearly says "I am the greatest player ever"
2. he's talking about playing 1-1 against OJ Mayo when Mayo was the #1 high school player, and beating him multiple times. repeat the multiple times
3. he's immediately asked after that if he could pllay anyone in his prime, and says he that he'd beat them all. Then he jokingly says, well except Kobe because he stole all my moves. and he smiles and chuckles
3A: he was obviously kidding
3B: he's talking about it right after talking about playing 1-1 against Mayo in the context of multiple games - ie. Kobe might beat me once out of multiple games...and again, he's chuckling about it
MJ quite obviously thinks he's still the greatest that ever played
If you guys are going to keep throwing soundbites out there, at least make sure you're using it in the context that the person quoted meant it
If you have to try to convince people you are the greatest ever, you probably don't really believe it. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Kobe is and has been a great player. But he is not as good as Michael Jordan. Very few players will ever be as good as Jordan. Jordan was a pure shooter; Kobe is a good volume shooter.
Although Reggie Miller's statement was silly, the intent was accurate and appreciated. Michael was a much better player than Kobe Bryant.
You're not in Reggie Miller's mind so you can't know what his intent was,you can appreciate what he said,that's your prerogative and your own business.
Miller's statement was not accurate but asinine.
Correction,utterly asinine.
I may not be in his head, but you didn't play against Kobe and MJ. Reggie Miller did. I'll take his opinion over yours because he has actual experience.
I repeat...MJ was a better player than Kobe.
And I will take John Wooden's opinion over both you and Reggie Miller as Kobe as the greatest of all time over Jordan.
And it isn't by any means a slight for Jordan to be behind Kobe...were talking about a guy that scored 81 points in a game here...something no other guard has done in the nba. It's not an insult for Jordan to be behind Kobe if you look at what Kobe has accomplished.
And now I can add longevity, 32k 6k 6k club, and 3rd all time points over Jordan to my argument.
That quote was never substantiated. It may have been misheard or misinterpreted by the comedian who claimed it to have been said.
Also, the quote is being misrepresented. I thought the actual quote, which only 1 person has ever actually heard and that person was some comedian, was that he thought Kobe was the best to play the game from a physical point of view.
Wooden also said he'd take Lebron over Kobe in 2009 before Kobe had won rings 4 and 5. Do you agree with that? Or just the other part?
It's between magic and Kobe for me right now for goat. Kobe still has a chance though. But if he completes another season after this....20 seasons on one team...I will have no choice but to give Kobe the nod over magic.
Do some homers here actually think Kobe is better than Michael Jordan?
Jeggs wrote:
It's between magic and Kobe for me right now for goat. Kobe still has a chance though. But if he completes another season after this....20 seasons on one team...I will have no choice but to give Kobe the nod over magic.
_________________ Championships since NBA/ABA merger in '76: Lakers 10 - Celtics 5 - Clippers 0 --- Phil Jackson 10 - Doc Rivers 1
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