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lakerjoshua
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jodeke
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 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I hope relationships between the two countries improve. Not only will it help our economy but in some way might ease the tensions that exist between the two nations.
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tlim
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:23 am Post subject: |
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This could be a great opportune time to do so! Russia is in zero position to do squat and really would be good to at least show them what a free market could be like.
They should at least shift to an England like socialist/capitalist type of economy. It'll "help their people" and could be a huge destination (again) for US citizens one of these days. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Should've been lifted years ago but I think the Cuban-American community has a lot of power to keep the status quo. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Should've been lifted years ago but I think the Cuban-American community has a lot of power to keep the status quo. |
Why would they want to do that?
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Should've been lifted years ago but I think the Cuban-American community has a lot of power to keep the status quo. |
Why would they want to do that? |
Two Words: Fidel Castro
They want to punish him for what he did to that country until the day he dies. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Should've been lifted years ago but I think the Cuban-American community has a lot of power to keep the status quo. |
Why would they want to do that? |
Two Words: Fidel Castro
They want to punish him for what he did to that country until the day he dies. |
Do you think Cuban Americans will put their dislike for Castro before their people? I don't think so.
I think it would be a opportunity to visit friends and families without fear of retaliation if relations between countries improve if that were a caveat.
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Should've been lifted years ago but I think the Cuban-American community has a lot of power to keep the status quo. |
Why would they want to do that? |
Two Words: Fidel Castro
They want to punish him for what he did to that country until the day he dies. |
Do you think Cuban Americans will put their dislike for Castro before their people? I don't think so.
I think it would be a opportunity to visit friends and families without fear of retaliation if relations between countries improve if that were a caveat. |
http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-cuba-policy-change-aided-shift-cuban-american-demographics-1761523
Most of those against the change are of the older generation who had family or relatives who were jailed or executed by Castro....so you can see why they didn't want to loosen the embargo. Coupled that with Florida being a swing state in presidential elections and you can see why the policy has been slow to change. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Should've been lifted years ago but I think the Cuban-American community has a lot of power to keep the status quo. |
Why would they want to do that? |
Two Words: Fidel Castro
They want to punish him for what he did to that country until the day he dies. |
Do you think Cuban Americans will put their dislike for Castro before their people? I don't think so.
I think it would be a opportunity to visit friends and families without fear of retaliation if relations between countries improve if that were a caveat. |
http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-cuba-policy-change-aided-shift-cuban-american-demographics-1761523
Most of those against the change are of the older generation who had family or relatives who were jailed or executed by Castro....so you can see why they didn't want to loosen the embargo. Coupled that with Florida being a swing state in presidential elections and you can see why the policy has been slow to change. |
I understand the older generations reasons but in this case I believe the younger generation walks the path more benificial.
Even the elders will be allowed to visit family in Cuba and not worry about being able to return to the United States.
Your article bolsters my stance.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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NickF
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
When has that ever happened? All the former Communist states turned to capitalism to end their economic troubles. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
What certain people are you speaking of? What ideas are you talking about.
If you don't mind please detail?
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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This would be a bad thing for Cuban cigars in the long run. People would discover that they actually sort of suck. If you smoke a good Cuban cigar, you probably just smoked a high quality fake. Most Cuban cigars sold in the US are fakes, but the smart fakers use high quality cigars in their operations. They take a good cigar from Nicaragua or the DR, put a fake Cuban band on it, and voila! They sell it for two or three times cost, and they have happy customers who think that Cuban cigars are awesome.
Just the other day, a guy gave me a "Cuban" cigar. He was so proud of himself for getting the real deal, and he bragged about his sources, yada yada yada. I smoked it, and it was good. I recognized the taste almost immediately. It was an Oliva Connecticut Reserve Churchill from Nicaragua ("Connecticut" refers to the type of tobacco used for the wrapper -- it is actually grown in Ecuador). I smoke them all the time, though usually in the Robusto size. The Churchill would cost $8-10 in Texas (we have low cigar taxes). A faker could probably get $25-30 a stick from some sucker. But if you're going to get cheated, you might as well get a good cigar out of the deal.
If you get a Cuban cigar that is poorly constructed, dried out, and sort of generally lousy, it might be the real deal. Or you can get the real deal at high end shops in Europe, and some of those are pretty good. Not in Cuba, though. Most of the cigars sold to tourists in Cuba are fakes. I've heard that they import them from Mexico. No joke. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
What certain people are you speaking of? What ideas are you talking about.
If you don't mind please detail? |
This is a complex, sensitive subject. I spent a lot of time in Miami back around 2000. Suffice it to say that the other posters are dead on the money. There are lot of people in South Florida who are so deeply angry about what happened in Cuba that logic is out the window. Perhaps this will pass with time as the older generation passes on. Or perhaps not. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | This would be a bad thing for Cuban cigars in the long run. People would discover that they actually sort of suck. If you smoke a good Cuban cigar, you probably just smoked a high quality fake. Most Cuban cigars sold in the US are fakes, but the smart fakers use high quality cigars in their operations. They take a good cigar from Nicaragua or the DR, put a fake Cuban band on it, and voila! They sell it for two or three times cost, and they have happy customers who think that Cuban cigars are awesome.
Just the other day, a guy gave me a "Cuban" cigar. He was so proud of himself for getting the real deal, and he bragged about his sources, yada yada yada. I smoked it, and it was good. I recognized the taste almost immediately. It was an Oliva Connecticut Reserve Churchill from Nicaragua ("Connecticut" refers to the type of tobacco used for the wrapper -- it is actually grown in Ecuador). I smoke them all the time, though usually in the Robusto size. The Churchill would cost $8-10 in Texas (we have low cigar taxes). A faker could probably get $25-30 a stick from some sucker. But if you're going to get cheated, you might as well get a good cigar out of the deal.
If you get a Cuban cigar that is poorly constructed, dried out, and sort of generally lousy, it might be the real deal. Or you can get the real deal at high end shops in Europe, and some of those are pretty good. Not in Cuba, though. Most of the cigars sold to tourists in Cuba are fakes. I've heard that they import them from Mexico. No joke. |
IIRC AH you own a cigar shop and I assume you to be a aficionado.
Not to derail the thread but, I don't understand the fascination with cigars. What is the attraction? Do you inhale?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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No, I don't own a cigar shop. I refer to it as "my cigar shop" in the same way that other people would say that they are going to "my grocer."
Cigars are great, and the nanny state wants to keep them away from you. What's not to like about that? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | No, I don't own a cigar shop. I refer to it as "my cigar shop" in the same way that other people would say that they are going to "my grocer."
Cigars are great, and the nanny state wants to keep them away from you. What's not to like about that? |
Do you inhale? Is there a nicotine addiction?
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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lakerjoshua
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Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 11277
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
What certain people are you speaking of? What ideas are you talking about.
If you don't mind please detail? |
This is a complex, sensitive subject. I spent a lot of time in Miami back around 2000. Suffice it to say that the other posters are dead on the money. There are lot of people in South Florida who are so deeply angry about what happened in Cuba that logic is out the window. Perhaps this will pass with time as the older generation passes on. Or perhaps not. |
The bolded may be a more accurate generalization  |
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | This would be a bad thing for Cuban cigars in the long run. People would discover that they actually sort of suck. If you smoke a good Cuban cigar, you probably just smoked a high quality fake. Most Cuban cigars sold in the US are fakes, but the smart fakers use high quality cigars in their operations. They take a good cigar from Nicaragua or the DR, put a fake Cuban band on it, and voila! They sell it for two or three times cost, and they have happy customers who think that Cuban cigars are awesome.
Just the other day, a guy gave me a "Cuban" cigar. He was so proud of himself for getting the real deal, and he bragged about his sources, yada yada yada. I smoked it, and it was good. I recognized the taste almost immediately. It was an Oliva Connecticut Reserve Churchill from Nicaragua ("Connecticut" refers to the type of tobacco used for the wrapper -- it is actually grown in Ecuador). I smoke them all the time, though usually in the Robusto size. The Churchill would cost $8-10 in Texas (we have low cigar taxes). A faker could probably get $25-30 a stick from some sucker. But if you're going to get cheated, you might as well get a good cigar out of the deal.
If you get a Cuban cigar that is poorly constructed, dried out, and sort of generally lousy, it might be the real deal. Or you can get the real deal at high end shops in Europe, and some of those are pretty good. Not in Cuba, though. Most of the cigars sold to tourists in Cuba are fakes. I've heard that they import them from Mexico. No joke. |
IIRC AH you own a cigar shop and I assume you to be a aficionado.
Not to derail the thread but, I don't understand the fascination with cigars. What is the attraction? Do you inhale? |
The thread was actually about cigars and AH is spot on. Of all the amazing cigars I've smoked, none have ever been a genuine cuban cigar. I'd like to try the real deal one day. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | This would be a bad thing for Cuban cigars in the long run. People would discover that they actually sort of suck. If you smoke a good Cuban cigar, you probably just smoked a high quality fake. Most Cuban cigars sold in the US are fakes, but the smart fakers use high quality cigars in their operations. They take a good cigar from Nicaragua or the DR, put a fake Cuban band on it, and voila! They sell it for two or three times cost, and they have happy customers who think that Cuban cigars are awesome.
Just the other day, a guy gave me a "Cuban" cigar. He was so proud of himself for getting the real deal, and he bragged about his sources, yada yada yada. I smoked it, and it was good. I recognized the taste almost immediately. It was an Oliva Connecticut Reserve Churchill from Nicaragua ("Connecticut" refers to the type of tobacco used for the wrapper -- it is actually grown in Ecuador). I smoke them all the time, though usually in the Robusto size. The Churchill would cost $8-10 in Texas (we have low cigar taxes). A faker could probably get $25-30 a stick from some sucker. But if you're going to get cheated, you might as well get a good cigar out of the deal.
If you get a Cuban cigar that is poorly constructed, dried out, and sort of generally lousy, it might be the real deal. Or you can get the real deal at high end shops in Europe, and some of those are pretty good. Not in Cuba, though. Most of the cigars sold to tourists in Cuba are fakes. I've heard that they import them from Mexico. No joke. |
IIRC AH you own a cigar shop and I assume you to be a aficionado.
Not to derail the thread but, I don't understand the fascination with cigars. What is the attraction? Do you inhale? |
The thread was actually about cigars and AH is spot on. Of all the amazing cigars I've smoked, none have ever been a genuine cuban cigar. I'd like to try the real deal one day. |
OK My curiosity has not been satisfied. What's the fascination? Is it an acquired taste? Do you inhale? Is there a nicotine addicition?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NickF
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| You think we crushed the Cuban economy for 50 years because of what??? We did it because communism is a threat to capitalism and the upper class, in the 50's we had numerous states turning to communism, we had 2 wars and McCarthyism to stop it, fear is what has dictated US policy to Cuba for the last half century. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
This is a complex, sensitive subject. I spent a lot of time in Miami back around 2000. Suffice it to say that the other posters are dead on the money. There are lot of people in South Florida who are so deeply angry about what happened in Cuba that logic is out the window. Perhaps this will pass with time as the older generation passes on. Or perhaps not. |
The Elian Gonzalez fiasco happened in 2000. Remember all the uproar about him being taken back to Cuba (to his PARENT). They had to snatch him out of there with guns drawn. CNN reporter said earlier that she noticed the split between the older protesters and the youth who weren't as affected by Castro, his regime, embargo, etc. Older people strongly seemed against the concept of normalization. The younger ones, as young people often are, are piqued by the idea of change.
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NickF
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
When has that ever happened? All the former Communist states turned to capitalism to end their economic troubles. |
You say that now, but that is irrelevant when we are talking about the 50's-60's and spread communism, it was a big threat to the people running this country. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: |
OK My curiosity has not been satisfied. What's the fascination? Is it an acquired taste? Do you inhale? Is there a nicotine addicition? |
Maybe its in part due to the relishing of a luxury item. It's like drinking Dom Per-IG-non. I don't get the champagne or the $300 bottle of Irish whiskey, but I remember someone somewhere explaining that people like to luxuriate every so often and for most, a fine Italian sportscar is out of the question. A tailored Armani suit. A Rolex. Are they necessary? Maybe not. Are they nice? Yep.
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Heartburn
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
This is a complex, sensitive subject. I spent a lot of time in Miami back around 2000. Suffice it to say that the other posters are dead on the money. There are lot of people in South Florida who are so deeply angry about what happened in Cuba that logic is out the window. Perhaps this will pass with time as the older generation passes on. Or perhaps not. |
The Elian Gonzalez fiasco happened in 2000. Remember all the uproar about him being taken back to Cuba (to his PARENT). They had to snatch him out of there with guns drawn. CNN reporter said earlier that she noticed the split between the older protesters and the youth who weren't as affected by Castro, his regime, embargo, etc. Older people strongly seemed against the concept of normalization. The younger ones, as young people often are, are piqued by the idea of change. |
Spite drives the older generation's view of US/Cuban relations. |
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