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lakersken80
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 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| NickF wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
When has that ever happened? All the former Communist states turned to capitalism to end their economic troubles. |
You say that now, but that is irrelevant when we are talking about the 50's-60's and spread communism, it was a big threat to the people running this country. |
People who think Communism is great obviously never lived under it.
Let me guess you are one of those hipsters who think Communism is awesome?
When you have family that lived under the hammer and sickle of Communism then we can talk. We debate about how great a centrally planned economy and inefficiencies lead to everyone being poorer than dirt. The only people who benefit from Communism are the people who hold political power, and at the end of the day, that is the only group of people who benefit. It is a power grab pure and simple. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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^^^^^ I apologize for allowing myself to start a political discussion. This thread is about cigars. I'm dying to have my curiosity quelled.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | No, I don't own a cigar shop. I refer to it as "my cigar shop" in the same way that other people would say that they are going to "my grocer."
Cigars are great, and the nanny state wants to keep them away from you. What's not to like about that? |
Do you inhale? Is there a nicotine addiction? |
No and no. I won't say that they are harmless, but the same is true of almost all of the good stuff. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | No, I don't own a cigar shop. I refer to it as "my cigar shop" in the same way that other people would say that they are going to "my grocer."
Cigars are great, and the nanny state wants to keep them away from you. What's not to like about that? |
Do you inhale? Is there a nicotine addiction? |
No and no. I won't say that they are harmless, but the same is true of almost all of the good stuff. |
Some pipe tobaccos have a pleasant aroma. I don't know if those who smoke them inhale or can become addicted.
I've never smelled a cigar I liked. Are there any with the same pleasant aromas as some pipe tobaccos?
You guys have piqued my curiosity.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | ^^^^^ I apologize for allowing myself to start a political discussion. This thread is about cigars. I'm dying to have my curiosity quelled. |
If you ever come to Houston, I'll fix you up with a nice cigar. Aside from the fact that cigars are good, the cigar store culture is a lot of fun. It's sort of like barber shops used to be. As I like to tell newbies, we don't have whites and blacks and browns and yellows in a cigar store. We have naturals, maduros, sun-growns, and claros. Everyone else complains about us, so we have to stick together.
And no, cigars are not aromatic like some pipe tobacco.
Well, there are flavored cigars that tend to be popular with girls and barflies. But they don't smell that great, either. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ^^^^^ I apologize for allowing myself to start a political discussion. This thread is about cigars. I'm dying to have my curiosity quelled. |
If you ever come to Houston, I'll fix you up with a nice cigar. Aside from the fact that cigars are good, the cigar store culture is a lot of fun. It's sort of like barber shops used to be. As I like to tell newbies, we don't have whites and blacks and browns and yellows in a cigar store. We have naturals, maduros, sun-growns, and claros. Everyone else complains about us, so we have to stick together.
And no, cigars are not aromatic like some pipe tobacco.
Well, there are flavored cigars that tend to be popular with girls and barflies. But they don't smell that great, either. |
From what I garner, it's more of a culture than a habit. The ability to differentiate is important. It's a gathering.
Is Michael Jordan considered to be a member of the "club?"
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Heartburn wrote: | | non-player zealot wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
This is a complex, sensitive subject. I spent a lot of time in Miami back around 2000. Suffice it to say that the other posters are dead on the money. There are lot of people in South Florida who are so deeply angry about what happened in Cuba that logic is out the window. Perhaps this will pass with time as the older generation passes on. Or perhaps not. |
The Elian Gonzalez fiasco happened in 2000. Remember all the uproar about him being taken back to Cuba (to his PARENT). They had to snatch him out of there with guns drawn. CNN reporter said earlier that she noticed the split between the older protesters and the youth who weren't as affected by Castro, his regime, embargo, etc. Older people strongly seemed against the concept of normalization. The younger ones, as young people often are, are piqued by the idea of change. |
Spite drives the older generation's view of US/Cuban relations. |
I have no personal stake in this game. But, to dismiss the feelings of the people to whom Castro happened as just "Spite" seems callous and misguided IMO.
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tlim
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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No matter the personal feelings, I'm not sure how keeping it for another 100 years or something like that would help. Making them dependent on world economics could force their hand without as much bloodshed.
I'm not sure if there was a better option because one thing is true; the current option just isn't working. |
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| They are already dependant on world economy. People from Europe, Latin America and yes even the USA travel there. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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NickF wrote:
| Quote: | | You say that now, but that is irrelevant when we are talking about the 50's-60's and spread communism, it was a big threat to the people running this country. |
Those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.
John f. Kennedy
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Is Michael Jordan considered to be a member of the "club?" |
I doubt that he hangs out at cigar shops. The only famous person who comes to my cigar shop is Rudy Giuliani. We see him a handful of times a year. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Is Michael Jordan considered to be a member of the "club?" |
I doubt that he hangs out at cigar shops. The only famous person who comes to my cigar shop is Rudy Giuliani. We see him a handful of times a year. |
I think I'm beginning to understand. Smoking cigars is a sign of living the good life. An indulgence for pleasure of the culture. Taste and recognition of a good cigar important to the culture.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, cigars are a luxury item. Oh, I don't mean machine made stuff like Black and Milds or Swisher Sweets. I mean fine hand rolled cigars, which start with Macanudos and the like on the low end and extend to Opus X, Padron 1926, and the like on the high end. It's something that you can kick back with on your patio . . . hmm . . . at the end of . . . hmm . . . a long day. Uh, nevermind. I need to go do something. Later, man. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Yes, cigars are a luxury item. Oh, I don't mean machine made stuff like Black and Milds or Swisher Sweets. I mean fine hand rolled cigars, which start with Macanudos and the like on the low end and extend to Opus X, Padron 1926, and the like on the high end. It's something that you can kick back with on your patio . . . hmm . . . at the end of . . . hmm . . . a long day. Uh, nevermind. I need to go do something. Later, man. |
Thanks AH it's been and enlightening conversation. Later 
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:56 am Post subject: |
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I just received a couple of small boxes of Cubans; not high-end, but still cognac worthy. I've never really had trouble bringing in the contrabandista from Hong Kong, except for one occasion where the customs officer snatched a very expensive one, presumably for his personal consumption.
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Billion year old carbon
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And we've got to get ourselves
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easybreeze
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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The thing that always bothered me is I've met people who are so quick to sell a so called Cuban with no intent to show authenticity.
My favorite lounge is XO in Woodland Hills.
In Pasadena, Cigars by Chivas, a bit more expensive with fewer selections. In Studio City , there is a nice lounge, called Havana Cigars.
Then there is Havana House and Lounge, in Alhambra that has an actual bar that serves drinks. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: |
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The real Cubans are available overseas from a reputable dealer. The cigars are also packaged with holograms.
_________________
We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
We are golden
Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden
-Joni Mitchell |
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tlim
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | They are already dependant on world economy. People from Europe, Latin America and yes even the USA travel there. |
The inability to trade with a neighbor who has that much GDP and cash flowing severely limits them. And a small # of people traveling to Cuba is not free flowing.
Economic success is like a drug. People in Cuba could being to enjoy it and if you take it away, that is much more painful that being stuck in misery the entire time. Get the frogs out of the well and they'll figure out a better path than pure communism. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | | ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | They are already dependant on world economy. People from Europe, Latin America and yes even the USA travel there. |
The inability to trade with a neighbor who has that much GDP and cash flowing severely limits them. And a small # of people traveling to Cuba is not free flowing.
Economic success is like a drug. People in Cuba could being to enjoy it and if you take it away, that is much more painful that being stuck in misery the entire time. Get the frogs out of the well and they'll figure out a better path than pure communism. |
Cuba is courting serious financial disaster if they don't court the U.S. They've been recipients of massive amounts of "free" (bartered) oil with Venezuela, who is on the verge of going broke. They've been subsidized from afar the Russia, and that's about to change as well.
For the US this is a strategic move as well. It is taking away Russia's closest friend to the US, a reminder to Putin that the old USSR is past tense and that invading Crimea won't bring it back.
_________________
We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
We are golden
Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden
-Joni Mitchell |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | tlim wrote: | | ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | They are already dependant on world economy. People from Europe, Latin America and yes even the USA travel there. |
The inability to trade with a neighbor who has that much GDP and cash flowing severely limits them. And a small # of people traveling to Cuba is not free flowing.
Economic success is like a drug. People in Cuba could being to enjoy it and if you take it away, that is much more painful that being stuck in misery the entire time. Get the frogs out of the well and they'll figure out a better path than pure communism. |
Cuba is courting serious financial disaster if they don't court the U.S. They've been recipients of massive amounts of "free" (bartered) oil with Venezuela, who is on the verge of going broke. They've been subsidized from afar the Russia, and that's about to change as well.
For the US this is a strategic move as well. It is taking away Russia's closest friend to the US, a reminder to Putin that the old USSR is past tense and that invading Crimea won't bring it back. |
Yep, this is basically a chess move. Russia won't be able to push back or place their warplanes on Cuban soil if they are going to normalize relations with the US. This pushes them back all the way to Venezuela, so the effective Russian threat is much further away. |
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kenkoy
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| What did Cuban do this time? Did he yell at Joey Crawford too much? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | tlim wrote: | | ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | They are already dependant on world economy. People from Europe, Latin America and yes even the USA travel there. |
The inability to trade with a neighbor who has that much GDP and cash flowing severely limits them. And a small # of people traveling to Cuba is not free flowing.
Economic success is like a drug. People in Cuba could being to enjoy it and if you take it away, that is much more painful that being stuck in misery the entire time. Get the frogs out of the well and they'll figure out a better path than pure communism. |
Cuba is courting serious financial disaster if they don't court the U.S. They've been recipients of massive amounts of "free" (bartered) oil with Venezuela, who is on the verge of going broke. They've been subsidized from afar the Russia, and that's about to change as well.
For the US this is a strategic move as well. It is taking away Russia's closest friend to the US, a reminder to Putin that the old USSR is past tense and that invading Crimea won't bring it back. |
Yep, this is basically a chess move. Russia won't be able to push back or place their warplanes on Cuban soil if they are going to normalize relations with the US. This pushes them back all the way to Venezuela, so the effective Russian threat is much further away. |
Watch the Repukelicans find a way to discredit President Obama for this milestone.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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NickF
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
When has that ever happened? All the former Communist states turned to capitalism to end their economic troubles. |
You say that now, but that is irrelevant when we are talking about the 50's-60's and spread communism, it was a big threat to the people running this country. |
People who think Communism is great obviously never lived under it.
Let me guess you are one of those hipsters who think Communism is awesome?
When you have family that lived under the hammer and sickle of Communism then we can talk. We debate about how great a centrally planned economy and inefficiencies lead to everyone being poorer than dirt. The only people who benefit from Communism are the people who hold political power, and at the end of the day, that is the only group of people who benefit. It is a power grab pure and simple. |
Of course I don't think it's awesome, actually I think it's as much a failure as capitalism is to meet the demands of the world today. But whether one likes it or not is completely irrelevant when we are talking about the perceived threat of communism to the people dictating policy in USA in the 50's and later.
Don't you think it's interesting that you can't even talk about the origins of US policy to Cuba without having to throw around accusations? People in USA are so programmed that they can't even discuss the subject. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| NickF wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
When has that ever happened? All the former Communist states turned to capitalism to end their economic troubles. |
You say that now, but that is irrelevant when we are talking about the 50's-60's and spread communism, it was a big threat to the people running this country. |
People who think Communism is great obviously never lived under it.
Let me guess you are one of those hipsters who think Communism is awesome?
When you have family that lived under the hammer and sickle of Communism then we can talk. We debate about how great a centrally planned economy and inefficiencies lead to everyone being poorer than dirt. The only people who benefit from Communism are the people who hold political power, and at the end of the day, that is the only group of people who benefit. It is a power grab pure and simple. |
Of course I don't think it's awesome, actually I think it's as much a failure as capitalism is to meet the demands of the world today. But whether one likes it or not is completely irrelevant when we are talking about the perceived threat of communism to the people dictating policy in USA in the 50's and later.
Don't you think it's interesting that you can't even talk about the origins of US policy to Cuba without having to thrown around accusations? People in USA are so programmed that they can't even discuss the subject. |
Or you could gain a perspective that there are Americans whose parents or family have fled from Communist regimes to live a better life in a capitalist society such as the USA. People aren't so naive as you think they are as they actually have real life experiences in the matter at hand. Does the USA have its share of problems? It sure does. But if you want to talk about failed systems, Communism is at the top. There isn't one functioning communist regime left in the world, not even ones that claim to fight for "workers" rights. They are communist in name only, as in the politicians in power have all the luxuries that are denied to their fellow "workers". |
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NickF
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Posts: 1946
Location: Caerbannog
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | The reason we hammered Cuba into the ground is because certain people have a vested interested in preventing a communist state from prospering so close to USA, might give the lower classes ideas. |
When has that ever happened? All the former Communist states turned to capitalism to end their economic troubles. |
You say that now, but that is irrelevant when we are talking about the 50's-60's and spread communism, it was a big threat to the people running this country. |
People who think Communism is great obviously never lived under it.
Let me guess you are one of those hipsters who think Communism is awesome?
When you have family that lived under the hammer and sickle of Communism then we can talk. We debate about how great a centrally planned economy and inefficiencies lead to everyone being poorer than dirt. The only people who benefit from Communism are the people who hold political power, and at the end of the day, that is the only group of people who benefit. It is a power grab pure and simple. |
Of course I don't think it's awesome, actually I think it's as much a failure as capitalism is to meet the demands of the world today. But whether one likes it or not is completely irrelevant when we are talking about the perceived threat of communism to the people dictating policy in USA in the 50's and later.
Don't you think it's interesting that you can't even talk about the origins of US policy to Cuba without having to thrown around accusations? People in USA are so programmed that they can't even discuss the subject. |
Or you could gain a perspective that there are Americans whose parents or family have fled from Communist regimes to live a better life in a capitalist society such as the USA. People aren't so naive as you think they are as they actually have real life experiences in the matter at hand. Does the USA have its share of problems? It sure does. But if you want to talk about failed systems, Communism is at the top. There isn't one functioning communist regime left in the world, not even ones that claim to fight for "workers" rights. They are communist in name only, as in the politicians in power have all the luxuries that are denied to their fellow "workers". |
Everything you are saying NOW in 2014 is completely irrelevant to what people thought in the 50's. You keep bringing info NOW that is unrelated to what people thought THEN.
You can keep going on about the ills of communism but how is that in any way related to the fact the establishment was clearly threatened by it 50 years ago?
You're so programmed that even the mere mention of the word in a context related to US policy, brings on a diatribe unrelated to the subject. |
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