|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ROTL
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 211
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jordan only played 13 seasons and 43000 minutes at a top 5 level. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
vixvolatility
Rookie
Joined: 19 Oct 2014
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ROTL wrote: | Kobe's played 19 years and 55000 minutes. Of that he's been a top 5 player in the game for 15 years and 50,000 minutes. The only other player in that realm is Kareem. Kobe dominated 3 different generations of players.
To say that longevity, along with toughness, and ability to play through and rebound from injuries, isn't a defining part of Kobe's career is asinine. |
kobe was a top 5 player from 2000 to 2010. how is that 15 years? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tagurt
Starting Rotation
Joined: 03 Jun 2012
Posts: 739
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vixvolatility wrote: | | ROTL wrote: | Kobe's played 19 years and 55000 minutes. Of that he's been a top 5 player in the game for 15 years and 50,000 minutes. The only other player in that realm is Kareem. Kobe dominated 3 different generations of players.
To say that longevity, along with toughness, and ability to play through and rebound from injuries, isn't a defining part of Kobe's career is asinine. |
kobe was a top 5 player from 2000 to 2010. how is that 15 years? |
They probably included 2011-2013 and this year just for the heck of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67773
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I may have missed it, I didn't see any mention of Tim Duncan. He came in the league in 1997 one year after Kobe. Has just as many rings 5. Still playing at a high level. Why doesn't he get any respect?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| saacman5033 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Shaq has 19 seasons. He was clearly dominant for his first 14 seasons (92/93 - 05/06). He was also dominant in 08/09. That would be 15. |
Normally like your takes and have no problem with much of this one, but the bolded is laughable. |
That season Shaq played 75 games and avg 18/8/1 on 61%. He had a PER of 22 and made an All-NBA team. That's just as dominant as Kobe's 3rd season (98/99), which I counted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SuperboyReformed wrote: | I feel it's difficult to compare Kareem and Kobe. Look at Duncan right now and compare him to Kobe...his role is much less "involved" than Kobe's, for whatever reason...coaching, teammates, system.
Dunca in this stage is basically a good role player. He's not running the offense, the offense doesn't really run through him. Ginobli is more of their emergency savior player. His load is much lighter compared to Kobe's and has been for a long time.
But that's what bigmen do. In Kareem's case, even he wasn't really the main guy for many many years after Magic came along. So his load also wasn't the same as Kobe's. |
This isn't true. Duncan isn't the primary option but he isn't just some role player. He is still the Spurs defensive anchor and primary post option. They have no reliable post threat without him, and his presence in the paint on both sides is the main reason they beat OKC and Miami. How many bigs in the league can give you 15/10, control the paint defensively and be an offensive post presence when needed (ala old Kareem). Can you even count 5?
Spot on that he has less responsibility than Kobe now, but the roles were reversed in the early 2000's. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ROTL
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 211
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vixvolatility wrote: | | ROTL wrote: | Kobe's played 19 years and 55000 minutes. Of that he's been a top 5 player in the game for 15 years and 50,000 minutes. The only other player in that realm is Kareem. Kobe dominated 3 different generations of players.
To say that longevity, along with toughness, and ability to play through and rebound from injuries, isn't a defining part of Kobe's career is asinine. |
kobe was a top 5 player from 2000 to 2010. how is that 15 years? |
1999-2013. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67773
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | I feel it's difficult to compare Kareem and Kobe. Look at Duncan right now and compare him to Kobe...his role is much less "involved" than Kobe's, for whatever reason...coaching, teammates, system.
Dunca in this stage is basically a good role player. He's not running the offense, the offense doesn't really run through him. Ginobli is more of their emergency savior player. His load is much lighter compared to Kobe's and has been for a long time.
But that's what bigmen do. In Kareem's case, even he wasn't really the main guy for many many years after Magic came along. So his load also wasn't the same as Kobe's. |
This isn't true. Duncan isn't the primary option but he isn't just some role player. He is still the Spurs defensive anchor and primary post option. They have no reliable post threat without him, and his presence in the paint on both sides is the main reason they beat OKC and Miami. How many bigs in the league can give you 15/10, control the paint defensively and be an offensive post presence when needed (ala old Kareem). Can you even count 5?
Spot on that he has less responsibility than Kobe now, but the roles were reversed in the early 2000's. |
Duncan is the player I call the silent assassin. He gets it done without fanfare. He's been doing it for 17 years without flash and still doing it.
Every year he's too old. Every year there he is in the playoffs.
One day look at his career stats. The silent assassin is always in the game.
His responsibility is underrated.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tagurt
Starting Rotation
Joined: 03 Jun 2012
Posts: 739
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | I feel it's difficult to compare Kareem and Kobe. Look at Duncan right now and compare him to Kobe...his role is much less "involved" than Kobe's, for whatever reason...coaching, teammates, system. |
And Duncan is excelling at the role he's in, which is being their only post scorer and elite defensive anchor. Which role did Kobe fill in this season outside of missing shots? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PhoenixForce
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 1780
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vixvolatility wrote: | | ROTL wrote: | Kobe's played 19 years and 55000 minutes. Of that he's been a top 5 player in the game for 15 years and 50,000 minutes. The only other player in that realm is Kareem. Kobe dominated 3 different generations of players.
To say that longevity, along with toughness, and ability to play through and rebound from injuries, isn't a defining part of Kobe's career is asinine. |
kobe was a top 5 player from 2000 to 2010. how is that 15 years? |
Kobe was still top 5 the year he tore his achilles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
where24happens
Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 3410
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I would say Kobe was a top 5 Player from the 2000-2001 season to 2012-2013 season. That's a still incredible 13 year run. However in the 99-00 season, he only averaged, 22.5 pts a game, wouldn't put him in Top 5 then. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PhoenixForce
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 1780
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | saacman5033 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Shaq has 19 seasons. He was clearly dominant for his first 14 seasons (92/93 - 05/06). He was also dominant in 08/09. That would be 15. |
Normally like your takes and have no problem with much of this one, but the bolded is laughable. |
That season Shaq played 75 games and avg 18/8/1 on 61%. He had a PER of 22 and made an All-NBA team. That's just as dominant as Kobe's 3rd season (98/99), which I counted. |
 stop it. Shaq was not dominant in 2008-09. The only players that can say they've had similar or better longevity as Kobe are Kareem and Malone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47594
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: "Kobe did it better for longer than any player in the history of the NBA" |
|
|
| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | At the end of the day, THIS is the claim that Kobe Bryant will be able to lay claim to.
Period.
Did Michael have a higher peak? Maybe. But he also had the benefit of playing for one coach, one system, and teammates who were mainstays (Pippen, Grant/Rodman, Paxson/Kerr, Cartwright/Kukoc) for the majority of his career. Who knows how Kobe would have performed if the roles were reversed. Kobe and Jordan and Magic/Bird and Russell/Wilt were the best of their respective generations. The only way we could have KNOWN who was better in their prime is if they had PLAYED against one another in their prime, which will always and forever be subject to debate.
But what is NOT is Kobe's longevity. Greater than MJ's. Greater than Bird's. Greater than Magic's.
The only one that holds a candle is Kareem, but here is Kobe, coming off MAJOR injury, leading the league in scoring at age 36, still playing at an all star level. Kareem was still effective until retirement, yes, but not a dominant player in the vein of what Kobe is still, remarkably, doing now.
That Jordan took a few years off to play baseball, or remove himself for the spotlight of gambling, or for whatever reason, is beside the point. These are "what ifs", and in the realm of what IS, Kobe's longevity - particularly as a perimeter player - is unrivaled.
If Jordan is the NBA's Jim Brown, Kobe is Jerry Rice.
At the end of the day, if Kobe plays two more years beyond this, he will have a chance to make a run at the all time scoring mark. And regardless of whether or not he hits that mark, when he hangs them up, it will be very difficult to say that anyone did it better - for longer - in the history of the game. |
Great post.
I agree that his high level of play for so long is what sets Kobe apart. To me, the 81 point game is impressive, but not near the level of the multiple 40 and 50 pt games he has laid down in the NBA record books. Including in big, huge playoff games....remember at San Antonio in the #8 days?
Kobe is an amazing player, truly a virtuoso like a great guitarist or boxer or painter.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144476
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| beKObe wrote: | | Agreed. Only Kareem had that much longevity with similar results. |
Exactly, which makes the OP's statement not entirely correct.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
moonriver24
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: "Kobe did it better for longer than any player in the history of the NBA" |
|
|
| LakerLanny wrote: | | KobeIsTheOne wrote: | At the end of the day, THIS is the claim that Kobe Bryant will be able to lay claim to.
Period.
Did Michael have a higher peak? Maybe. But he also had the benefit of playing for one coach, one system, and teammates who were mainstays (Pippen, Grant/Rodman, Paxson/Kerr, Cartwright/Kukoc) for the majority of his career. Who knows how Kobe would have performed if the roles were reversed. Kobe and Jordan and Magic/Bird and Russell/Wilt were the best of their respective generations. The only way we could have KNOWN who was better in their prime is if they had PLAYED against one another in their prime, which will always and forever be subject to debate.
But what is NOT is Kobe's longevity. Greater than MJ's. Greater than Bird's. Greater than Magic's.
The only one that holds a candle is Kareem, but here is Kobe, coming off MAJOR injury, leading the league in scoring at age 36, still playing at an all star level. Kareem was still effective until retirement, yes, but not a dominant player in the vein of what Kobe is still, remarkably, doing now.
That Jordan took a few years off to play baseball, or remove himself for the spotlight of gambling, or for whatever reason, is beside the point. These are "what ifs", and in the realm of what IS, Kobe's longevity - particularly as a perimeter player - is unrivaled.
If Jordan is the NBA's Jim Brown, Kobe is Jerry Rice.
At the end of the day, if Kobe plays two more years beyond this, he will have a chance to make a run at the all time scoring mark. And regardless of whether or not he hits that mark, when he hangs them up, it will be very difficult to say that anyone did it better - for longer - in the history of the game. |
Great post.
I agree that his high level of play for so long is what sets Kobe apart. To me, the 81 point game is impressive, but not near the level of the multiple 40 and 50 pt games he has laid down in the NBA record books. Including in big, huge playoff games....remember at San Antonio in the #8 days?
Kobe is an amazing player, truly a virtuoso like a great guitarist or boxer or painter. |
Todate, I still think 62 in 3 quarters against dallas is the best, followed by back2back 40+ point games against kings n spurs in western semi n finals and then the 81.
_________________
Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nevitt_smrek
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2803
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | beKObe wrote: | | Agreed. Only Kareem had that much longevity with similar results. |
Exactly, which makes the OP's statement not entirely correct. |
Those who weren't alive back then can't fully appreciate how dominant Kareem was. The skyhook was automatic. And when the defender(s) overplayed him on the left shoulder, he was so quick to go the other way. Loved it when he would catch them off-guard with a quick baseline spin, ending up with dunks and layups. His durability is underrated too. He played in over 95% of the total number of games possible. He was sidelined in 1975 and 1978 with serious injury. In those other 18 seasons, he played in 1433 of 1476 games: 97%. 2.4 games per year.
Kobe has great work ethic and takes the game seriously, but at times I think people are using that to excuse his bad performances. Oh he works hard in the gym, so it's okay that he took those bad shots.
_________________
Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PhoenixForce wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | saacman5033 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Shaq has 19 seasons. He was clearly dominant for his first 14 seasons (92/93 - 05/06). He was also dominant in 08/09. That would be 15. |
Normally like your takes and have no problem with much of this one, but the bolded is laughable. |
That season Shaq played 75 games and avg 18/8/1 on 61%. He had a PER of 22 and made an All-NBA team. That's just as dominant as Kobe's 3rd season (98/99), which I counted. |
stop it. Shaq was not dominant in 2008-09. The only players that can say they've had similar or better longevity as Kobe are Kareem and Malone. |
Was Kobe dominant in 98/99?
How can you argue that Duncan has not had, at least, similar longevity? Same question for Hakeem? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Manny450r
Star Player
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 4309
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nahtanoj wrote: | | 2005? Were you even watching basketball.. Kobe entered his peak in 2001. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7165
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
We have to give props to all the players mentioned, however KAJ is still at the top of the mountain in terms of longevity. KAJ was a freak. What makes his accomplishment even more astounding was that he did it a long time ago. No special training, no medical technology (he only went to Germany when he read about it), he did not fly to practice, wore bricks (adidas which compared to today's shoes are insane), played more back to back games during the 85 season (the league played more back to back games than today), and he did not make the $ of today's athletes ($ has an impact on longevity ie. personal trainers, chefs, etc). No disrespect to KB and the other players mentioned, but please do not forget KAJ was.....
DOMINANT AND FINALS MVP at 38. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kobeandgary
Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6345
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RI Laker wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | To say today's NBA is not diluted compared to KAJ's time is in my opinion wrong. Take a brief look at the centers KAJ went against in 84-85 when he was 37/38 years of age. |
Using the center position to prove your point was a mistake. The center position has evolved due to changes in tactics and the tastes of young players. The game is dominated by the three point shot, and the low post game isn't considered glamorous. Elite big men want to play forward, or even guard. In Kareem's day, guys like Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Griffin, Davis, and Aldridge would all have been centers. Heck, Durant might have been bulked up and stuck in the low post. This all dates back to Ralph Sampson -- an elite big man who did not want to play the low post.
In the modern game, the prototypical center is a defensive anchor who protects the rim, rebounds, and boxes out. On offense, the center's job is to set screens and convert the occasional lob. With the occasional exception of a throw back like Marc Gasol or maybe Cousins, the guys with offensive skills have moved away from the low post.
So no, the changes in the center position do not reflect a dilution in the league. In fact, the center position is probably stronger than ever from a defensive perspective, because that is the role of the modern center.
Looking at it from a different perspective, compare the PFs of the '80s to the modern PFs, and tell me which era was diluted. You had Kevin McHale, Karl Malone, and Charles Barkley, and then a lot of guys who are about at the same quality level as the modern center position. In the '80s, PF was the defensive position. PFs were supposed to be the enforcers. |
I only stated the center position because we were discussing KAJ and his longevity. I also said " compare the rest of the position players of today's league vs 84-85." Every team in the league had at least a couple of very good players. Today's diluted league does not have the depth of teams during KAJ's day. I know its difficult to compare era's, but the players during the mid eighties had to bring it every night. There were no off nights like there are in today's league. The league should just get rid of some teams as they lack stars and quite frankly, are a joke. |
Todays average NBA player is way more talented then the average NBA player of the 80's, many players back then still dribbled with one hand and had no concept of cross over dribbling, todays average players have gotten so good it has become tougher to stand out and garner "star" status. Not to mention the fact that wing defenders keep getting more and more athletic and longer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hopandskip
Sixth Man
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 85
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
In the 80s, league parity was only the truth for the top 3 or 4 teams, in that you had the top teams take turns beating each other in the Finals. Kareem was playing against good to great centers (esp. Moses and Parish), but how many of those teams ever made the Finals? Even up and coming teams like the Bucks and the Knicks never made it over the hump.
And while maybe the players overall were more fundamentally sound back then, today's players supposedly have more overall natural talent and physical ability. Also, defense was considered lax in the 80s league wide, though I'm not sure if that's true or not.
The game was actually faster back then, with more points scored and you didn't have guys camping out at the 3-pt line (even though that creeped in later, thanks in part to Byron and Cooper, and Ainge). Nor did they hold the ball within shot clock expiration very much. Teams went for the easiest fastest scoring play available and didn't really have to think it out - they just went for it.
The teams with the mini-All-Star Rosters - the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Pistons - were the ones that won the titles, not surprisingly. Even those Pistons teams were stacked compared to todays teams.
The league is watered down. And the game is different. Could those 80s teams defend what the Spurs did last year? It'd be interesting to see. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kobeandgary wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | To say today's NBA is not diluted compared to KAJ's time is in my opinion wrong. Take a brief look at the centers KAJ went against in 84-85 when he was 37/38 years of age. |
Using the center position to prove your point was a mistake. The center position has evolved due to changes in tactics and the tastes of young players. The game is dominated by the three point shot, and the low post game isn't considered glamorous. Elite big men want to play forward, or even guard. In Kareem's day, guys like Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Griffin, Davis, and Aldridge would all have been centers. Heck, Durant might have been bulked up and stuck in the low post. This all dates back to Ralph Sampson -- an elite big man who did not want to play the low post.
In the modern game, the prototypical center is a defensive anchor who protects the rim, rebounds, and boxes out. On offense, the center's job is to set screens and convert the occasional lob. With the occasional exception of a throw back like Marc Gasol or maybe Cousins, the guys with offensive skills have moved away from the low post.
So no, the changes in the center position do not reflect a dilution in the league. In fact, the center position is probably stronger than ever from a defensive perspective, because that is the role of the modern center.
Looking at it from a different perspective, compare the PFs of the '80s to the modern PFs, and tell me which era was diluted. You had Kevin McHale, Karl Malone, and Charles Barkley, and then a lot of guys who are about at the same quality level as the modern center position. In the '80s, PF was the defensive position. PFs were supposed to be the enforcers. |
I only stated the center position because we were discussing KAJ and his longevity. I also said " compare the rest of the position players of today's league vs 84-85." Every team in the league had at least a couple of very good players. Today's diluted league does not have the depth of teams during KAJ's day. I know its difficult to compare era's, but the players during the mid eighties had to bring it every night. There were no off nights like there are in today's league. The league should just get rid of some teams as they lack stars and quite frankly, are a joke. |
Todays average NBA player is way more talented then the average NBA player of the 80's, many players back then still dribbled with one hand and had no concept of cross over dribbling, todays average players have gotten so good it has become tougher to stand out and garner "star" status. Not to mention the fact that wing defenders keep getting more and more athletic and longer. |
Less skilled or less talented then ? No. That was not what you described.
Players in Baylor's day dribbled with two hands but had to keep their hand on top of the ball. Their activity was limited by rule enforcement. Their problem was that the crossover move was whistled as palming the dribble, as carrying over. It was simply not permitted. We don't know what those guys could have done under today's relaxed rule set for the ball-handler. For example, players today are permitted the Euro step, the jump stop, and two and a half steps; players in Baylor's day would have been whistled for traveling in all three cases. The rule enforcement is too different to use the playing differences in these areas to claim superiority of the modern player's "talent". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7165
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The last two post were very good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ribeye
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12640
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now, when you view Kobe by LA fan standards, of course one could say "Kobe did it better for longer than any player in the history of the NBA."
If you view Kobe according to ALL fans voting for their favorite via all star games (one of the top 24, or so, players), he is second to Kareem.
If you view Kobe according to sportswriters and broadcasters, he and Karl Malone have the most (ALL NBA) firsts (top five player), and seconds (top ten player); and he and Kareem have the most firsts, seconds and thirds (top fifteen player).
If you view Kobe according to the most MVP's (as voted by the sportswriters and broadcasters), he's down the list behind Kareem 6, Michael 5, Russell 4, Wilt 3, LeBron 3, Bird 3, Magic 3, Moses 3 , TimmyD 2, Karl 2, Nash 2, and Pettit 2.
If you view Kobe according to rings, there is the 1960's Celtics (starting with Russell 11 and SJones 10), Horry 7, Michael 6 , Kareem 6, Scottie 6, before the next 13 tied with Kobe at 5
Then there is statistic measurement.
I will only use PER, since it is common and Win Shares as this is becoming more common and factors defense.
Most times leading the league in PER: Kareem 9, Wilt 8, Michael 7, LeBron 6 (Kobe 0).
Most times in the top 5: Kareem 15, KMalone 13, Shaq 12, Michael 11, Wilt 10, Duncan 9 (Kobe 5)
Most times leading the league in Win Shares: Kareem 9, MJ 9, Wilt 8, LeBron & Neil Johnson 5 (Kobe 0)
Most times in the top 5: Chamberlain 13, Kareem 12, MJ 11, LeBron 10, Robinson & Russell 9, Magic & Duncan 8 (Kobe 4)
In looking at this in total, I see a very good argument for Kareem as the one who did it better for longer than any player in the history of the NBA.
When we look at his UCLA career, one can also argue that he was the best basketball player ever.
But when we factor to Finals MVPs, the top NBA player will remain MJ.
_________________
"A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Second to Kareem is not a bad place to be. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
