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K28
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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 Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersJunkie wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | lakeshow83 wrote: | | When has our fo ever shown the ability to build through the draft? |
When West was our GM: 1993-1996.
One of the more epic rebuilds in NBA history.
When Mitch was our GM: 2004-2008
He drafted Luke, Cook, Sasha, Drew, Ronny, Farmar, and Marc Gasol. Cook became Trevor, and Marc became Pau.
Like West, Mitch had one lottery pick to work with. |
Frankie King, Eddie Jones, George Lynch, D Fish and NVE is an epic rebuild through the draft? The epic rebuild was signing Shaq with an offer we couldn't make under the current CBA and trading for Kobe. |
I count Kobe as a draft pick...he was drafted for us by Charlotte. Beyond that, the 1995-1996 Lake Show team won 53 games before Shaq and Kobe got here.
So yeah, epic rebuild from being just two seasons removed from 33 wins and the lottery. |
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Drifts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28374
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| kray28_ wrote: | | LakersJunkie wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | lakeshow83 wrote: | | When has our fo ever shown the ability to build through the draft? |
When West was our GM: 1993-1996.
One of the more epic rebuilds in NBA history.
When Mitch was our GM: 2004-2008
He drafted Luke, Cook, Sasha, Drew, Ronny, Farmar, and Marc Gasol. Cook became Trevor, and Marc became Pau.
Like West, Mitch had one lottery pick to work with. |
Frankie King, Eddie Jones, George Lynch, D Fish and NVE is an epic rebuild through the draft? The epic rebuild was signing Shaq with an offer we couldn't make under the current CBA and trading for Kobe. |
I count Kobe as a draft pick...he was drafted for us by Charlotte. Beyond that, the 1995-1996 Lake Show team won 53 games before Shaq and Kobe got here.
So yeah, epic rebuild from being just two seasons removed from 33 wins and the lottery. |
I agree. while Boston literally wallowed in mediocrity for almost 2 decades, West built a team in like a jiffy...
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Voices
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | Mavs have arguably the best starting 5 right now.
Rondo
Monta
Parsons
Dirk
Chandler
Kobe probably would have had 2 or 3 more rings as a part of the Mavs org.
They have always put together a very strong and competitive team around Dirk. It is kind of strange that he only has 1 ring.
Well, here is his chance for the 2nd. Wouldn't surprise me.
One of the best ran org in the league
Lakers are one of the worst. |
Yeah, the way they dismantled a title team the next offseason was mighty impressive. |
If Cuban did that as the owner of the Lakers he would have been blasted. However, they have rebuilt in a very short time, they are a contender once again. The Lakers are getting nothing from either trades or FA interest, that should be a major concern for Laker fans, nobody wants to be a Laker under the teams current circumstances.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17103
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| kray28_ wrote: | | LakersJunkie wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | lakeshow83 wrote: | | When has our fo ever shown the ability to build through the draft? |
When West was our GM: 1993-1996.
One of the more epic rebuilds in NBA history.
When Mitch was our GM: 2004-2008
He drafted Luke, Cook, Sasha, Drew, Ronny, Farmar, and Marc Gasol. Cook became Trevor, and Marc became Pau.
Like West, Mitch had one lottery pick to work with. |
Frankie King, Eddie Jones, George Lynch, D Fish and NVE is an epic rebuild through the draft? The epic rebuild was signing Shaq with an offer we couldn't make under the current CBA and trading for Kobe. |
I count Kobe as a draft pick...he was drafted for us by Charlotte. Beyond that, the 1995-1996 Lake Show team won 53 games before Shaq and Kobe got here.
So yeah, epic rebuild from being just two seasons removed from 33 wins and the lottery. |
Can't count Kobe as a pure draft pick when we traded an All-Star center (Vlade) to get him.
West made some GREAT trades, but his drafts were average. He hit on his few lottery picks, missed on a lot of late picks and plucked a gem with NVE (only because Nick fell like a stone after being projected in the lottery).
If you look at his last 10 drafts:
1990 - took Seldom Campbell, Tony Smith, missed Toni Kukoc, Bimbo Coles, Antonio Davis, Cedric Ceballos
1991 - no pick until #52
1992 - took Peeler and traded for Christie (then later traded him away) with Sprewell, PJ Brown and other dudes were on the board.
1993 - took George Lynch, left Sam Cassell, Bryon Russell on the board, stole NVE in 2nd round.
1994 - took Eddie Jones - left Jalen Rose, which was probably a wash.
1995 - no #1,Frankie King in the 2nd with Eric Snow on the board.
1996 - DFish and traded for Kobe. Great year.
1997 - only pick was 51st.
1998 - took Sam Jacobsen and Ruben Patterson, then cut Patterson! Left Nazr Mohammed, Rashard Lewis, Skip To M'Lou, Cuttino Mobley and others on the board.
1999 - took Devean George, John Celestand; missed AK47, Manu Ginobili
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Voices
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Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Thank You Mitch |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | LAL4K3RS wrote: | Thank you Mitch for not destroying our cap space or ejecting our future draft picks for Rondo.
Rondo is good but what Dallas gave up for him is absolutely stupid and helps to make them redundant in a year or two.
I would give up one decent player for him but Boston gets to finally unload him which is great for them and they get to build on more draft picks and the players they got or good.
I was really worried the Lakers would make a run for him but it seems the Mavs were willing to give up everything for that guy which is fine with me. |
Did you thank Mitch when he gave up 2 first round picks and 2 second round picks for an old injury prone PG named Steve Nash? |
Hell yes, LG was enthralled with that deal. Only Nash hadn't been injury prone, I realize you added that to play toward your bias. Check the records and you will see how wrong you are. |
LG posters do not get paid to make player personal decisions. Posters have every right to look back and reassess. When you are the one that actually pulls the strings and you determine two first round picks for an old injury prone player is s good deal then you should be fired, there are very few players in today's NBA that are worth two first round picks. The Lakers should of been able to make a deal with an UFA with one first round pick. Nash was in the drivers seat and wanted to be a Laker, he could of force the Suns to deal with the Lakers or risk getting nothing in return. One first round pick was a lot and should of been acceptable.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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salami
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Joined: 06 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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the front office does not deserve any thanks for this garbage
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Thank You Mitch |
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| Voices wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | LAL4K3RS wrote: | Thank you Mitch for not destroying our cap space or ejecting our future draft picks for Rondo.
Rondo is good but what Dallas gave up for him is absolutely stupid and helps to make them redundant in a year or two.
I would give up one decent player for him but Boston gets to finally unload him which is great for them and they get to build on more draft picks and the players they got or good.
I was really worried the Lakers would make a run for him but it seems the Mavs were willing to give up everything for that guy which is fine with me. |
Did you thank Mitch when he gave up 2 first round picks and 2 second round picks for an old injury prone PG named Steve Nash? |
Hell yes, LG was enthralled with that deal. Only Nash hadn't been injury prone, I realize you added that to play toward your bias. Check the records and you will see how wrong you are. |
LG posters do not get paid to make player personal decisions. Posters have every right to look back and reassess. When you are the one that actually pulls the strings and you determine two first round picks for an old injury prone player is s good deal then you should be fired, there are very few players in today's NBA that are worth two first round picks. The Lakers should of been able to make a deal with an UFA with one first round pick. Nash was in the drivers seat and wanted to be a Laker, he could of force the Suns to deal with the Lakers or risk getting nothing in return. One first round pick was a lot and should of been acceptable. |
You two have had this convo a zillion times. Nash played 62 games at his lowest minutes per game in a decade his last year in Phoenix. The writing on the wall was there. The excited LG fans (myself included) weren't paying attention to the details. But that doesn't mean it excuses our FO's decision.
A good and bad FO in the NBA is relative to the other FOs around the league. And we got played by Phoenix's FO. They figured Nash's best years were behind him. That's why they invested in Dragic.
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misterrunon
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Posts: 1904
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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What's the big deal? This season is already lost, and Rondo is a UFA next year.. he won't command the max either, so the only benefit for him (though it is significant) is that he'd be able to get a 5 year contract with the Mavs.
We will pursue him in the summer. |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Not a big fan of Rondo but he is a good fit for the Mavs. |
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legend825
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 2496
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Not a fan of Rondo and happy LAL didn't get him. Better to go younger or guy that can score a bit while being able to pass like Dragic. Would love to have Jimmy Butler but not happening. Probably the best SF prospect that's going to be a free agent besides Durant in the next few years |
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philipm35
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | Look, I understand people who say that we are more than one piece away, and I agree, but do people really believe that some late first round pick that is going to need more time to develop is more important in a rebuild than a proven star?
I understand people being scared, I really do, but how anyone can make moves even in life outta fear is beyond me. |
AHEM...
Nick Van Exel--pick 37 (2nd Rd)
Vlade Divac--pick 26 (late 1st)
Derek Fisher--pick 24
Norm Nixon--late 20s
Coop--3rd Round Pick (16th pick of the round)
So, um yeah, you are way off thinking that the team needs to sacrifice building a solid core for the future, whether that results in tradeable assets, breakout stars, or both, hopefully.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/740136-all-lakers-draft-steal-team |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: |
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RJax.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Yep. Possible impact level player, young, on a maxed out, small market team with a demonstrated sensitivity to the cap.
The problem is that OKC has a smart GM. He'll anticipate RJax getting that huge offer and either trade him or try to keep him with what was Perkins' salary and maneuver to find a cheap center.
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philipm35
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: |
Yep. Possible impact level player, young, on a maxed out, small market team with a demonstrated sensitivity to the cap.
The problem is that OKC has a smart GM. He'll anticipate RJax getting that huge offer and either trade him or try to keep him with what was Perkins' salary and maneuver to find a cheap center. |
Absolutely.
Would LOVE to see Marc down low with Randle, but Wallace will sign him as soon as possible, probably before Gasol hits FA.
But that would one heck of a dynamic frontcourt on both sides of the ball. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: |
Yep. Possible impact level player, young, on a maxed out, small market team with a demonstrated sensitivity to the cap.
The problem is that OKC has a smart GM. He'll anticipate RJax getting that huge offer and either trade him or try to keep him with what was Perkins' salary and maneuver to find a cheap center. |
Yup. Best we can do is Lin/hill/houston 1st. Two rotation players and a pick back. Not optimal trade package but if I could get RJax do it.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Thank You Mitch |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | LAL4K3RS wrote: | Thank you Mitch for not destroying our cap space or ejecting our future draft picks for Rondo.
Rondo is good but what Dallas gave up for him is absolutely stupid and helps to make them redundant in a year or two.
I would give up one decent player for him but Boston gets to finally unload him which is great for them and they get to build on more draft picks and the players they got or good.
I was really worried the Lakers would make a run for him but it seems the Mavs were willing to give up everything for that guy which is fine with me. |
Did you thank Mitch when he gave up 2 first round picks and 2 second round picks for an old injury prone PG named Steve Nash? |
Hell yes, LG was enthralled with that deal. Only Nash hadn't been injury prone, I realize you added that to play toward your bias. Check the records and you will see how wrong you are. |
LG posters do not get paid to make player personal decisions. Posters have every right to look back and reassess. When you are the one that actually pulls the strings and you determine two first round picks for an old injury prone player is s good deal then you should be fired, there are very few players in today's NBA that are worth two first round picks. The Lakers should of been able to make a deal with an UFA with one first round pick. Nash was in the drivers seat and wanted to be a Laker, he could of force the Suns to deal with the Lakers or risk getting nothing in return. One first round pick was a lot and should of been acceptable. |
You two have had this convo a zillion times. Nash played 62 games at his lowest minutes per game in a decade his last year in Phoenix. The writing on the wall was there. The excited LG fans (myself included) weren't paying attention to the details. But that doesn't mean it excuses our FO's decision.
A good and bad FO in the NBA is relative to the other FOs around the league. And we got played by Phoenix's FO. They figured Nash's best years were behind him. That's why they invested in Dragic. |
I hate to nitpick, but it has been pointed out a gazillion times that the 62 games played was in the lockout shortened season that only had 66 games.
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Dallas is in a different situation. They want to win now. Fair enough, they have a decent team. Despite this move (not movie  ), their chances revolve mostly around Chandler.
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: |
And let's not forget drafting Divac, who was used to entice Charlotte into giving us the draft rights to Kobe. Or Peeler and Lynch, solid role players who were drafted and later deftly traded to make space for Shaq.
West orchestrated some great moves that made the Lakers a championship team. It amazes me how short memories are around here. |
Fantastic post.
West was a genius, what he did to build the Lake Show Lakers was amazing, even before they got Kobe and Shaq.
To be fair though this is a totally different environment now under this current CBA.
So far, the Lakers seem to be struggling on how to adapt to the new rules. We clearly need to gain assets through the draft, that is why so many here are passionate about losing enough games to keep the pick this year.
I think it is fair to say that the jury is very much out on if this version of the Lakers ownership and management is up for the challenge under these new rules.
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philipm35
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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True, the FO has its work cut out for it, but I really think they realize that; but they also want to appear to be trying to win, when it behooves them to hoard draft picks, make wise FA signings and then cultivate young stars who can become tradeable assets or cornerstones of their rebuilding process. Just as Divac, EJones, Campbell, Van Exel, even Ceballos (to a degree) were instrumental in reshaping the Lakers.
It took a long time to get to that point, and it was over a decade before LA was a legit title contender.
Sadly, nobody here seems to think there is anything good that can come out of taking the long view. How did that work out though? We ended up getting Kobe and Shaq in one offseason, instantly remaking the team and garnering LA another five titles in the process.
Patience, people. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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I have been preaching patience, as you posted, West didn't do all he had to do to get the team in contention in one or two seasons. IMO it took him 7 seasons until the team was a real contender, and another couple of seasons before they were in the Finals.
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm really surprised that Boston didn't get more picks in the deal as opposed to all the mediocre players considering that their goal is clearly to rebuild now.... Nelson is 32 years old and the other two players don't come close to breaking the 20 min per game playing time mark.... Jameer has a "player option" next year so the only CAP space they really save is if the do not resign Wright which amounts to 5M.... You simply do not rebuild around any of the players they got in return and just one first pick and one second pick isn't going to help Boston that much considering where the picks will be.... admittedly the $12.9 million trade exception can help Boston however.
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markjay
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| dmorans1 wrote: | Oh and when summer comes and we don't end up in the top 5 and strike out on all of the free agents please don't start a thread saying you were all in for Rondo.
One of the dumbest moves, or non-moves, we have made in a few years. We had a shot at an actual star for nothing, a protection for a pick we won't even get equals nothing, and we didn't jump on it. |
Rondo will be 29 next season and has an injury history.
I really want to see the Lakers building for the future by picking up some great prospects in their early to mid-20s, rather than throwing money at players like Rondo who are already past their peak. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| markjay wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | Oh and when summer comes and we don't end up in the top 5 and strike out on all of the free agents please don't start a thread saying you were all in for Rondo.
One of the dumbest moves, or non-moves, we have made in a few years. We had a shot at an actual star for nothing, a protection for a pick we won't even get equals nothing, and we didn't jump on it. |
Rondo will be 29 next season and has an injury history.
I really want to see the Lakers building for the future by picking up some great prospects in their early to mid-20s, rather than throwing money at players like Rondo who are already past their peak. |
Even quality players do not fetch much if they have ending contracts. At best the acquiring team will have to pay market rate to keep them, at worst they are a half season rental. Similar to the Lakers experience with Pau Gasol, Ainge sat on his asset too long though Danny Boy has the excuse that Rondo was injured for much of last season.
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We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
We are golden
Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I have been preaching patience, as you posted, West didn't do all he had to do to get the team in contention in one or two seasons. IMO it took him 7 seasons until the team was a real contender, and another couple of seasons before they were in the Finals. |
We have been too spoiled. Too many fans think this is a quick fix.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | I'm really surprised that Boston didn't get more picks in the deal as opposed to all the mediocre players considering that their goal is clearly to rebuild now.... Nelson is 32 years old and the other two players don't come close to breaking the 20 min per game playing time mark.... Jameer has a "player option" next year so the only CAP space they really save is if the do not resign Wright which amounts to 5M.... You simply do not rebuild around any of the players they got in return and just one first pick and one second pick isn't going to help Boston that much considering where the picks will be.... admittedly the $12.9 million trade exception can help Boston however. |
Maybe teams value picks more than we fans realize.
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