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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:48 am Post subject: |
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I do think Kobe needs to fully commit to team basketball and hang up the hero ball, he's beyond that; IMO.
However, time will tell and contrary to what Kobe's said, he will not admit he done, few players ever do.
Let it play out, it's not like we're winning anything soon... _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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K28 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Posts: 10038
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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zePokar wrote: | thejet24 wrote: | Jeggs wrote: | Kobe just isn't the same. I think the Achilles has affected his shot. I think if Kobe starts shooting the ball like curry, on the way up instead of at the peak he would gain more accuracy. |
You think?
People make it seem as if this guy is a robot and should have come back better than before. That's how he has spoiled us for almost 20 years.
I'll be the first to say Kobe this year is playing like garbage...but compared to what he use to be.
But then I remember how delusional do you have to be to think a guy who is 36 years old can come back to the same legendary level we are use to after completely tearing one of the most important muscles in the human body.
Walking the same would be difficult for some, and here he is running up and down with some of the best athletes in the world. |
Well said. |
Except the part about the Achilles being a muscle. |
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K28 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Posts: 10038
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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In all seriousness, I do think Kobe needs to adjust the mechanics of his shot. It's not like he's airballing them....it's just off a smidge. Basically he was off his legs for over a year, and the whole his muscle memory system needs to be rebooted to adjust to his Achilles and reduced lift.
But to hear people say that he's done. That's really sad. A guy that's done doesn't draw triple teams. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Triple teams? Kobe never draws triple teams anymore. Did you mean before when he was in his prime?
No one now is employing that because they don't have to. |
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K28 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Posts: 10038
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Triple teams? Kobe never draws triple teams anymore. Did you mean before when he was in his prime?
No one now is employing that because they don't have to. |
Yeah triple teams. See the San Antonio game. Doubles happen more often.
It's obvious to me now that you don't actually watch the games. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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kray28_ wrote: | In all seriousness, I do think Kobe needs to adjust the mechanics of his shot. It's not like he's airballing them....it's just off a smidge. Basically he was off his legs for over a year, and the whole his muscle memory system needs to be rebooted to adjust to his Achilles and reduced lift.
But to hear people say that he's done. That's really sad. A guy that's done doesn't draw triple teams. |
I've actually been impressed with how well he shot his new less lift-shot, from day 1 this pre season. It's money when it's not contested - but when it is contested, late in games when he has even less lift - it's hard to make SUCH a contested shot. He used to be able to elevate over the defense and always see the basket cleanly, not anymore. So he can either choose to shoot less contested shots, or change his release??? the latter seems much more difficult. What he needs to improve/adjust IMO is his ability off the dribble to create open looks. defenders see his moves coming from a mile away now - there's no new variations of that fadeaway, defenders have seen all the shakes. He's been doing the same damn shakes on that fadeway since 2006.
Last edited by KeepItRealOrElse on Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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kray28_ wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Triple teams? Kobe never draws triple teams anymore. Did you mean before when he was in his prime?
No one now is employing that because they don't have to. |
Yeah triple teams. See the San Antonio game. Doubles happen more often.
It's obvious to me now that you don't actually watch the games. |
Hogwash. You're not watching the games, or, you are, and you are seeing what you want to see.
If what you're saying is true, then Kobe would be the primary reason we are losing.
How can any player who takes more shots than any other player in the league, draw 3 defenders, leaving two wide open, and only average 1.8 assists more than black hole Carmelo?
Most of Kobe's shots are taken in single coverage. Maybe you have blurred vision? |
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K28 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Posts: 10038
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | kray28_ wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Triple teams? Kobe never draws triple teams anymore. Did you mean before when he was in his prime?
No one now is employing that because they don't have to. |
Yeah triple teams. See the San Antonio game. Doubles happen more often.
It's obvious to me now that you don't actually watch the games. |
Hogwash. You're not watching the games, or, you are, and you are seeing what you want to see.
If what you're saying is true, then Kobe would be the primary reason we are losing.
How can any player who takes more shots than any other player in the league, draw 3 defenders, leaving two wide open, and only average 1.8 assists more than black hole Carmelo?
Most of Kobe's shots are taken in single coverage. Maybe you have blurred vision? |
You are so full of (bleep) that I don't think it's even worth arguing with you.
In the last game he was doubled...with a help defender digging down to help Roberson, and it's been that was for most of the season. Pop went as far as throwing a third player at him to make him get rid of the ball.
Read DB's review since you didn't watch the game:
The Thunder was sending a lot of help on Kobe early on, but he was moving the ball well and had some support from teammates making shots early on.
He's seeing it...but you aren't. Because you didn't watch the game. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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kray28_ wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | kray28_ wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Triple teams? Kobe never draws triple teams anymore. Did you mean before when he was in his prime?
No one now is employing that because they don't have to. |
Yeah triple teams. See the San Antonio game. Doubles happen more often.
It's obvious to me now that you don't actually watch the games. |
Hogwash. You're not watching the games, or, you are, and you are seeing what you want to see.
If what you're saying is true, then Kobe would be the primary reason we are losing.
How can any player who takes more shots than any other player in the league, draw 3 defenders, leaving two wide open, and only average 1.8 assists more than black hole Carmelo?
Most of Kobe's shots are taken in single coverage. Maybe you have blurred vision? |
You are so full of (bleep) that I don't think it's even worth arguing with you.
In the last game he was doubled...with a help defender digging down to help Roberson, and it's been that was for most of the season. Pop went as far as throwing a third player at him to make him get rid of the ball.
Read DB's review since you didn't watch the game:
The Thunder was sending a lot of help on Kobe early on, but he was moving the ball well and had some support from teammates making shots early on.
He's seeing it...but you aren't. Because you didn't watch the game. |
What's the difference between a double and triple team?
Kobe is NOT triple teamed like you said. Maybe on the rare occasion he gets past his man, there is help that slides over but thats not a double team either.
You're just making that up man for obvious reasons. Makes no sense to triple Kobe on a regular basis, he can miss against 1 defender. |
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Tagurt Starting Rotation
Joined: 03 Jun 2012 Posts: 739
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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If Kobe is triple teamed all the time then he would be leading the league in assists even with his trigger happy mentality. |
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Jordan-esque Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 10262
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Did this stat jump up to 15 teams after tonight? _________________
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LakeShow06 Star Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 2176
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Jeggs wrote: | Kobe just isn't the same. I think the Achilles has affected his shot. I think if Kobe starts shooting the ball like curry, on the way up instead of at the peak he would gain more accuracy. |
Kobe doesn't need to be like Steph BLEEP Curry.....Kobe was making shots while he Curry was sucking on his momma's titties _________________ "We might have had the worst season ever or could have the worst season ever for a Lakers team, but now let's have the greatest comeback that the league has ever seen." - Kobe Bryant |
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LakeShow06 Star Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 2176
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Tagurt wrote: | If Kobe is triple teamed all the time then he would be leading the league in assists even with his trigger happy mentality. |
that's if some of his guys could shoot/play... _________________ "We might have had the worst season ever or could have the worst season ever for a Lakers team, but now let's have the greatest comeback that the league has ever seen." - Kobe Bryant |
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pjiddy Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 29017
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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LakeShow06 wrote: | Tagurt wrote: | If Kobe is triple teamed all the time then he would be leading the league in assists even with his trigger happy mentality. |
that's if some of his guys could shoot/play... |
This is such a tired and preposterous statement. There's only one guy in the rotation shooting worse than Kobe right now, and that's Ronnie Price. The rest of the team is managing to shoot over 40%. |
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P.K. Retired Number
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 29641
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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LakeShow06 wrote: | Jeggs wrote: | Kobe just isn't the same. I think the Achilles has affected his shot. I think if Kobe starts shooting the ball like curry, on the way up instead of at the peak he would gain more accuracy. |
Kobe doesn't need to be like Steph BLEEP Curry.....Kobe was making shots while he Curry was sucking on his momma's (bleep) |
This year Curry is shooting 48.5%, 39.1% on 3's, with 7.6APG and only 3.3 TO's for 23.9ppg
Kobe's shooting 37% (and falling dramatically), 26% 3's, 5APG and 3.3 TO's for 24.6 ppg
yes, please....we'll take a little Steph _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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P.K. wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | Jeggs wrote: | Kobe just isn't the same. I think the Achilles has affected his shot. I think if Kobe starts shooting the ball like curry, on the way up instead of at the peak he would gain more accuracy. |
Kobe doesn't need to be like Steph BLEEP Curry.....Kobe was making shots while he Curry was sucking on his momma's (bleep) |
This year Curry is shooting 48.5%, 39.1% on 3's, with 7.6APG and only 3.3 TO's for 23.9ppg
Kobe's shooting 37% (and falling dramatically), 26% 3's, 5APG and 3.3 TO's for 24.6 ppg
yes, please....we'll take a little Steph |
I think Jeggs has a point. Theres a great video out there going over the mechanics of Curry's shot. The way he does it on the way up is fascinating. Im sure Kobe would be willing to learn that at some point. But the systems they play in are different too. Curry often gets screens for his shots. kob usually is surrounded or jumping over defenders so it's not like he has the room to shoot it from the hip like that. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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SuperboyReformed wrote: | P.K. wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | Jeggs wrote: | Kobe just isn't the same. I think the Achilles has affected his shot. I think if Kobe starts shooting the ball like curry, on the way up instead of at the peak he would gain more accuracy. |
Kobe doesn't need to be like Steph BLEEP Curry.....Kobe was making shots while he Curry was sucking on his momma's (bleep) |
This year Curry is shooting 48.5%, 39.1% on 3's, with 7.6APG and only 3.3 TO's for 23.9ppg
Kobe's shooting 37% (and falling dramatically), 26% 3's, 5APG and 3.3 TO's for 24.6 ppg
yes, please....we'll take a little Steph |
I think Jeggs has a point. Theres a great video out there going over the mechanics of Curry's shot. The way he does it on the way up is fascinating. Im sure Kobe would be willing to learn that at some point. But the systems they play in are different too. Curry often gets screens for his shots. kob usually is surrounded or jumping over defenders so it's not like he has the room to shoot it from the hip like that. |
Kobe would have to COMPLETELY overhaul his release to do that. Curry shoots from his forehead to accomplish this. Kobe shoots from above his head. Also, Curry shoots something of a set shot about half the time, and like you said, Kobe is used to elevating over his defenders. Harden has a similar on the way up-shot - very little lift, and low release...(he just angles his body more than Curry)
nonetheless I'm SURE Kobe has contemplated not elevating as much on his J, to save his legs. |
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Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23744
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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They try to trap Kobe and send hard doubles at him late in the clock to force turnovers. It isn't the same as earlier in his career where they were using two guys to guard him. |
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Iconic Star Player
Joined: 14 Mar 2012 Posts: 1376
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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LakeShow06 wrote: | Tagurt wrote: | If Kobe is triple teamed all the time then he would be leading the league in assists even with his trigger happy mentality. |
that's if some of his guys could shoot/play... |
Considering how many shots Kobe is taking per game and his piss poor shooting % in addition to his lack of defense, I could argue that no body on the team is playing worse than Kobe this season. Notice how we usually play better when Kobe is facilitating or just on the bench... |
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terpski Sixth Man
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 Posts: 98
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:50 am Post subject: |
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I don't think Kobe will get the message to stop shooting long contested jumpers to win games until fans start booing him at home. |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12665
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:53 am Post subject: |
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deal wrote: | I do think Kobe needs to fully commit to team basketball and hang up the hero ball, he's beyond that; IMO. |
I'm not sure he's capable of it. He's leading the league in shots by nearly 3 shots per game, and shooting 37%. Kobe's days of being a top tier superstar seem to be over. But he can still be a very productive player. He needs to accept that role for it to happen though, and I'm not sure that his ego can accept it.
I don't doubt Kobe's heart or will. His ego, will, and belief in himself is what separated him from players like Carter or McGrady. It's what allowed him to take so many clutch shots in his career without fear. But at this stage of his career it is a hindrance to his team. Because he still believes he can do it and seems hellbent to prove it. |
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mhan00 Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32025
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Jeggs wrote: | My thing is if we're going to continue this and not go any where regardless of how we play I want Kobe to shoot 30-40 shots a game. And I want at least half of those to come off of screens. |
Why? Does it bring you joy to watch Kobe suck and give his haters more ammunition they can throw his way? Kobe's clearly exhausted. He should be tailing back and taking a smaller role for now as they figure out how much he has left physically and how to maximize his time on the floor. Nobody besides people who hate Kobe want to see him missing 20+ shots a game (at least!) which is what he'd probably be doing if he was taking 30-40 a night.
Kobe wanted to prove ESPN wrong for their ranking? He's doing it right now, but not the way he wants. 25 is looking wildly optimistic for him right now. Cut back the minutes, get more rest, get the legs working again, and Kobe can get back to the top ten ranking he was looking like his first five to ten games. Keep throwing himself against the wall, and I fear he will only get worse. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:38 am Post subject: |
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J.C. Smith wrote: | deal wrote: | I do think Kobe needs to fully commit to team basketball and hang up the hero ball, he's beyond that; IMO. |
I'm not sure he's capable of it. He's leading the league in shots by nearly 3 shots per game, and shooting 37%. Kobe's days of being a top tier superstar seem to be over. But he can still be a very productive player. He needs to accept that role for it to happen though, and I'm not sure that his ego can accept it.
I don't doubt Kobe's heart or will. His ego, will, and belief in himself is what separated him from players like Carter or McGrady. It's what allowed him to take so many clutch shots in his career without fear. But at this stage of his career it is a hindrance to his team. Because he still believes he can do it and seems hellbent to prove it. |
Agree. On the othe hand, the only thing he is proving is can't do it.
I heard he'll rest a game or two, he needs to sit and think about what he's doing and what he should be doing... _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: |
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LakeShow06 wrote: | Jeggs wrote: | Kobe just isn't the same. I think the Achilles has affected his shot. I think if Kobe starts shooting the ball like curry, on the way up instead of at the peak he would gain more accuracy. |
Kobe doesn't need to be like Steph BLEEP Curry.....Kobe was making shots while he Curry was sucking on his momma's (bleep) |
And Curry is the better player now. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | Jeggs wrote: | Kobe just isn't the same. I think the Achilles has affected his shot. I think if Kobe starts shooting the ball like curry, on the way up instead of at the peak he would gain more accuracy. |
Kobe doesn't need to be like Steph BLEEP Curry.....Kobe was making shots while he Curry was sucking on his momma's (bleep) |
And Curry is the better player now. |
and 100 times the shooter. which is what the suggestion pertained to |
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