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| What is Phil's Mid-Term Grade? |
| A |
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32% |
[ 32 ] |
| B |
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49% |
[ 49 ] |
| C |
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15% |
[ 15 ] |
| D |
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4% |
[ 4 ] |
| F |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 100 |
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Message |
dubaholic1
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 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: Give Phil His Mid-Term Grade Here |
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| What grade do you give him at the half way point of the season and why? |
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LkrsOvrMia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: |
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23 - 19 with this roster = an "A" now and forever.
Go Lakers!!
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: |
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B.
Good work in regards to forming a team defensive and a team oriented offensive system.
But the lack of developpment of Kwame Brown (a player he coveted and wanted) a long with the inability to care about some very important X's and O's have barred me from giving him an A. He hasn't really set up Odom or Kwame enough to really feel confident about this team moving forward.
Not that my opinion matters of his job, but I don't think Phil deserves an A. He has done a good - B worthy - job though. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I actually give him a B- at this point. A 23-19 record isn't that much of a better record than we had at this point last year. Considering the following:
1) Kobe is reasonably healthy without the debilitating foot injury of last year.
2) That Smush, even with his inconsistant play is much better than Chucky.
3) DG is healthy and capable of playing (not available all of last year) which helps our defense, immensely.
4) Mihm is more effective this year over all with a year of experience as a starter.
5) The addition of Kwame brings added defense, gives us a legit PF (as opposed to last year) and allows Odom to play a position he is better suited at.
6) Cook has improved his all around game with an added year of experience.
7) The overall health of the team has been much better than last year.
Considering these points and more I would definitely EXPECT THE LAKERS TO BE BETTER THIS YEAR.
So based on this I think a B- is as generous as I can be at this point. Considering that the players have had to absorb more of the Triangle and learn to play together the current record isn't terribly bad. But I actually was expecting a little better record at this point of the season, considering my points (above). However, I am expecting improvement as the season progresses and if so then Phil will of course raise his grade in the end, presumably as the Lakers improve their record and position in the standings.
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LkrsOvrMia
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Joined: 27 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | B.
Good work in regards to forming a team defensive and a team oriented offensive system.
But the lack of developpment of Kwame Brown (a player he coveted and wanted) a long with the inability to care about some very important X's and O's have barred me from giving him an A. He hasn't really set up Odom or Kwame enough to really feel confident about this team moving forward.
Not that my opinion matters of his job, but I don't think Phil deserves an A. He has done a good - B worthy - job though. |
Lack of development falls on Phil how?
Kareem recently said because Kwame feels he's a face-up player is why he doesn't work with Kareem much.
Give it time. Phil said it's a project and not to expect anything in the first two seasons. Now whether or not he is being literal is not for sure but this is not on Phil IMO.
Go Kwame! Go Lakers!!
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Lack of development falls on Phil how? |
He's approaching this team the same way he would a veteran team.
You have to set up more plays for these guys. Especially early on. Phil expects them to know the Triangle to the point where they can use it to get shots off but that's not how it is.
When you have mentally challenged players like Odom and Kwame - you have to get them involved early on. If you don't set them up early, they tend to dissapear on offense. And since those two are our best athletes/talents after Kobe - you must not let that happen.
He has also not used Bynum and Kwame or Mihm out there together much. I mean Bynum + another C would be deadly defensively. I recall a game vs the Knicks early on the season where he had Bynum+Mihm out there. It was excellent.
While I think Phil's biggest strength is what's keeping the Lakers competitive (Composure/Mental strength) he can do a better job of setting up his main players and giving Bynum some more minutes with starting players.
To earn an A in my book, Phil must develop Odom, Kwame and Bynum much more than he is. |
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LkrsOvrMia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | Lack of development falls on Phil how? |
He's approaching this team the same way he would a veteran team.
You have to set up more plays for these guys. Especially early on. Phil expects them to know the Triangle to the point where they can use it to get shots off but that's not how it is.
When you have mentally challenged players like Odom and Kwame - you have to get them involved early on. If you don't set them up early, they tend to dissapear on offense. And since those two are our best athletes/talents after Kobe - you must not let that happen.
He has also not used Bynum and Kwame or Mihm out there together much. I mean Bynum + another C would be deadly defensively. I recall a game vs the Knicks early on the season where he had Bynum+Mihm out there. It was excellent.
While I think Phil's biggest strength is what's keeping the Lakers competitive (Composure/Mental strength) he can do a better job of setting up his main players and giving Bynum some more minutes with starting players.
To earn an A in my book, Phil must develop Odom, Kwame and Bynum much more than he is. |
I'm not so sure how we gauge how strongly Phil feels they should be running things.
Your points are well received and I hope to see even more development by season's end.
Go Lakers!
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OdomX2
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | Lack of development falls on Phil how? |
He's approaching this team the same way he would a veteran team.
You have to set up more plays for these guys. Especially early on. Phil expects them to know the Triangle to the point where they can use it to get shots off but that's not how it is.
When you have mentally challenged players like Odom and Kwame - you have to get them involved early on. If you don't set them up early, they tend to dissapear on offense. And since those two are our best athletes/talents after Kobe - you must not let that happen.
He has also not used Bynum and Kwame or Mihm out there together much. I mean Bynum + another C would be deadly defensively. I recall a game vs the Knicks early on the season where he had Bynum+Mihm out there. It was excellent.
While I think Phil's biggest strength is what's keeping the Lakers competitive (Composure/Mental strength) he can do a better job of setting up his main players and giving Bynum some more minutes with starting players.
To earn an A in my book, Phil must develop Odom, Kwame and Bynum much more than he is. |
Kwame and Bynum are young guys that would benefit from some extra plays and Phil Jackson attention. Odom is a veteran that should be making his own strides. I don't blame Phil for Odom being a dud. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Anyone give Phil an "A" is out of the question, imo.
All of my 7 points (above) previously posted (on this page) HAS NOTHING OR VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH PHIL and would have happened WITHOUT PHIL.
All of those 7 points have helped improve our team to a huge degree over last year. So considering these things have little to do with Phil's presense and thus Phil cannot take credit for these factors which have helped the team I think anything better than a B- is very generous.
After all considing the greatly improved health of Kobe and the addition of Smush, Kwame and George over last year one would expect the Lakers to be MUCH better this year on just that alone. Again, it is clear that these factors have very little if any to do with Phil.
Otherwise I would have expected the Lakers to have an improved record and level of play just simply based on the contrast to last years players and bad luck. So a lot of this years success cannot be attributed to Phil, imo, but I think he brings stability and respect from the players which is a huge asset. I am hopeful that the Lakers will absorbe the Triangle much better than they have in the long term and improve their record down the road otherwise Phil could even drop lower than the B- I give him to this point.
Also I feel that some of his substition patterns have been not as impressive as I would have liked to this point. I feel that some of Luke's playing time should be alloted to Cook and Bynum. I also feel that while Phil has done a better job of calling time outs, he still needs to use them to stop momentum considering how this team is so young. There have been times when Mihm is sitting on the bench without foul trouble that I find disturbing as well. I would also like to see more combinations of Bynum and Mihm on the court now and then.
Where I give Phil credit is keeping the team focused (although I still see a lot of room for improvement there as well) and keeping a good attitude with the players, especially regarding Kobe considering the past. It appears that he has maintained a loyalty and respect from the players which is a very important aspect to succesful coaching. A player commitment to Phil's Triangle is critical and he seem to have achieved this overall commitment besides the difficulties in learning this system.
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Sage_10
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| B- He has done great with this team but I still think this team can be better. Neigh they should be better. |
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NY_LakerFan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | I actually give him a B- at this point. A 23-19 record isn't that much of a better record than we had at this point last year. Considering the following:
1) Kobe is reasonably healthy without the debilitating foot injury of last year.
2) That Smush, even with his inconsistant play is much better than Chucky.
3) DG is healthy and capable of playing (not available all of last year) which helps our defense, immensely.
4) Mihm is more effective this year over all with a year of experience as a starter.
5) The addition of Kwame brings added defense, gives us a legit PF (as opposed to last year) and allows Odom to play a position he is better suited at.
6) Cook has improved his all around game with an added year of experience.
7) The overall health of the team has been much better than last year.
Considering these points and more I would definitely EXPECT THE LAKERS TO BE BETTER THIS YEAR.
So based on this I think a B- is as generous as I can be at this point. Considering that the players have had to absorb more of the Triangle and learn to play together the current record isn't terribly bad. But I actually was expecting a little better record at this point of the season, considering my points (above). However, I am expecting improvement as the season progresses and if so then Phil will of course raise his grade in the end, presumably as the Lakers improve their record and position in the standings. |
I'm curious ... just HOW do you think Mihm raised his game? Cook has become more effective ... Sash is playing like he actually belongs in the NBA ... and Smush has been ineffective playing under every other coach.
I guess you think these players all suddenly developed game on their own without assistance from anyone.
Phil has managed to draw out better play from a number of players throughout his career including total busts like Steve Kerr and Bill Wennington. Even Longley and Kukoc had their best years under him.
I give Phil a solid A+. The Kwame trade made this team weaker ... not better as Kwame is the one guy Phil has been unable to reach. He has managed to take a lineup with a starting PG NOBODY wanted ... two first round draft picks who have underachieved their whole careers (Mihm & Kwame) ... and a bench that at the beginning of the season was a consensus zero.
I would have LOVED to see what he would have done with Caron. Imagine Kobe hitting for 30+ a night, Caron as the SECOND option at 16-18; and Odom as a solid third option at 14 ppg.
In the absence of a solid number two, he has been smart enough to recognize that he needed to take as much of the burden of running the offense as possible off Kobe and allow him to simply take over games with his second-to-none scoring ability. For all the complaints about Phil's ego ... this took one helluva lot of selflessness on his part. After all, it helps fuel the incredibly dumb arguments that Phil has nothing to do with this team's success ... that it is all Kobe. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm not impressed. We've won more games because of Kobe's heroics than Phil's coaching...
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gill2k
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: |
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I give him a B. His substitutions have been mystifying to say the least. And the fact that Luke still gets a load of minutes is beyond me.
And as Drifts already pointed out, we're above 500 more because of Mr. 81.
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NY_LakerFan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Glad you added the "IMO". In MY opinion, you could not be further off base. Of course, I must admit that I look at things from a coach's perspective as well as that of a player.
Just to add to my post above ... The addition of Kwame is a negative so far NOT a positive. Caron on this team would have been HUGE while Kwame effective defense has been limited to large post players (think Fat Snaq) while he has had major difficulties guarding quicker PFs. And Odom's best games have come while playing PF not at his supposedly natural positio of SF.
Your suggestion that his substitution pattern would be improved by allocating Luke's minutes to Cook and Bynum doesn't make a lot of sense considering that Luke normally enters the game to replace Odom and run the offense or is used when Phil goes all small. This is especially true in Bynum's case. You cannot simply decide that minutes can be switched from one player to another without at least some regard as to the positions they play.
All that being said I must say I like how you've been optimistic about this team from the beginning. I agree. IMO ... I just don't think you're giving enough credit to Phil for the improvements our young players have made.
| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | Anyone give Phil an "A" is out of the question, imo.
All of my 7 points (above) previously posted (on this page) HAS NOTHING OR VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH PHIL and would have happened WITHOUT PHIL.
All of those 7 points have helped improve our team to a huge degree over last year. So considering these things have little to do with Phil's presense and thus Phil cannot take credit for these factors which have helped the team I think anything better than a B- is very generous.
After all considing the greatly improved health of Kobe and the addition of Smush, Kwame and George over last year one would expect the Lakers to be MUCH better this year on just that alone. Again, it is clear that these factors have very little if any to do with Phil.
Otherwise I would have expected the Lakers to have an improved record and level of play just simply based on the contrast to last years players and bad luck. So a lot of this years success cannot be attributed to Phil, imo, but I think he brings stability and respect from the players which is a huge asset. I am hopeful that the Lakers will absorbe the Triangle much better than they have in the long term and improve their record down the road otherwise Phil could even drop lower than the B- I give him to this point.
Also I feel that some of his substition patterns have been not as impressive as I would have liked to this point. I feel that some of Luke's playing time should be alloted to Cook and Bynum. I also feel that while Phil has done a better job of calling time outs, he still needs to use them to stop momentum considering how this team is so young. There have been times when Mihm is sitting on the bench without foul trouble that I find disturbing as well. I would also like to see more combinations of Bynum and Mihm on the court now and then.
Where I give Phil credit is keeping the team focused (although I still see a lot of room for improvement there as well) and keeping a good attitude with the players, especially regarding Kobe considering the past. It appears that he has maintained a loyalty and respect from the players which is a very important aspect to succesful coaching. A player commitment to Phil's Triangle is critical and he seem to have achieved this overall commitment besides the difficulties in learning this system. |
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NY_LakerFan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | I'm not impressed. We've won more games because of Kobe's heroics than Phil's coaching... |
So ...Kobe's not being heroic last year was why we finished so strong (said with sarcasm)? |
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NY_LakerFan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| I am also curious why those who voted to give him a C orf a D did not have the guts to posts why they feel that way? |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I would have LOVED to see what he would have done with Caron. Imagine Kobe hitting for 30+ a night, Caron as the SECOND option at 16-18; and Odom as a solid third option at 14 ppg |
I'm still angry about that one.
Worst thing?
Caron easily gets traded to Indy for Artest.
You have an even better core in Bryant, Odom and Artest.
That just friggen sucks .... Caron deal really hurt the Lakers this past month. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Just_Looking wrote:
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LA_Lakers_Rule wrote:
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I actually give him a B- at this point. A 23-19 record isn't that much of a better record than we had at this point last year. Considering the following:
1) Kobe is reasonably healthy without the debilitating foot injury of last year.
2) That Smush, even with his inconsistant play is much better than Chucky.
3) DG is healthy and capable of playing (not available all of last year) which helps our defense, immensely.
4) Mihm is more effective this year over all with a year of experience as a starter.
5) The addition of Kwame brings added defense, gives us a legit PF (as opposed to last year) and allows Odom to play a position he is better suited at.
6) Cook has improved his all around game with an added year of experience.
7) The overall health of the team has been much better than last year.
Considering these points and more I would definitely EXPECT THE LAKERS TO BE BETTER THIS YEAR.
So based on this I think a B- is as generous as I can be at this point. Considering that the players have had to absorb more of the Triangle and learn to play together the current record isn't terribly bad. But I actually was expecting a little better record at this point of the season, considering my points (above). However, I am expecting improvement as the season progresses and if so then Phil will of course raise his grade in the end, presumably as the Lakers improve their record and position in the standings.
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I'm curious ... just HOW do you think Mihm raised his game? Cook has become more effective ... Sash is playing like he actually belongs in the NBA ... and Smush has been ineffective playing under every other coach.
I guess you think these players all suddenly developed game on their own without assistance from anyone.
Phil has managed to draw out better play from a number of players throughout his career including total busts like Steve Kerr and Bill Wennington. Even Longley and Kukoc had their best years under him.
I give Phil a solid A+. The Kwame trade made this team weaker ... not better as Kwame is the one guy Phil has been unable to reach. He has managed to take a lineup with a starting PG NOBODY wanted ... two first round draft picks who have underachieved their whole careers (Mihm & Kwame) ... and a bench that at the beginning of the season was a consensus zero.
I would have LOVED to see what he would have done with Caron. Imagine Kobe hitting for 30+ a night, Caron as the SECOND option at 16-18; and Odom as a solid third option at 14 ppg.
In the absence of a solid number two, he has been smart enough to recognize that he needed to take as much of the burden of running the offense as possible off Kobe and allow him to simply take over games with his second-to-none scoring ability. For all the complaints about Phil's ego ... this took one helluva lot of selflessness on his part. After all, it helps fuel the incredibly dumb arguments that Phil has nothing to do with this team's success ... that it is all Kobe.
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I agree with you on Caron to some degree, but I think our interior defense would have suffered going this route. I think Kwame still has more upside than Caron and thus as a "true" big at the PF position was worth the trade. With Kwame we have a much better defensive presence on the front line which also accounts for the improved defense of Odom by allowing him to play the smaller forwards as opposed to facing up against PF's all of the time as he did last year. These factors have a lot do do with our improved defense this year, imo. But as I said I see your point here.
Otherwise let's take the players you've mentioned....
1) Mihm was a starter for an entire season for the first time in his career. Wouldn't one expect a player to naturally improve considering this. Also I think that Kareem is more responsible than anyone else beyond the added experience of a year of starting under his belt. Actually isn't this what you would expect from a player who has never had the opportunity to start until last year and is just now entering his prime with the very valuable added experience.
2) Cook improved dramatically LAST year with his very effective 3-point shot. Cook appears to me to be the type of player who is simply upgrading his game as a result of practice and simply based no his ability to catch and shoot the ball very effectively. I don't see this as somehow an outgrowth of Phil's enfluence in the least. As I said Cook's dramatic improvement last year supports my claim that Cook's improved play would have occured regardless of Phil and is simply a result of added experience. Actually if anything Phil is holding back Cook's development, imo due to more limited time on the court in contrast to last year.
3) In regards to Smush, I would agree that the added playing time that Phil is giving them him is impacting the improved play over previous seasons. But that is more out of necessity than anything else. Who else would Phil start at PG, for instance. If the Lakers had the same quality players that the other teams had that Smush was on in the past Smush would still be riding the bench even under Phil.
4) Sasha for the most part needed to bulk up, practice in the off-season and simply gain more confidence. The confidence he has gained I can attribute to Phil for suppporting him, yes, but otherwise what I mentioned before along with the added experience of a year has little to do with Phil.
5) For Kobe it is simple, as I said Kobe was suffering last year for many reasons, most of all his foot problems. Beyond that the personel distractions didn't help either. Kobe prepared, worked out and came into this season fully recovered and ready to go this season. I would have expected no less from Kobe under any coach, imo.
6) As far as the bench and Phil bringing the best out of "fringe" players, I will agree that he may have some impact in this area. But I really believe a completely healthy George is a huge reason the bench is better this year. I think you would agree that other than George and Cook (who I mentioned above) the bench is not that formidable. In fact I think you might agree that Luke has actually regressed in contrast to last year. So I contend it has more to do with the health of George at 27 entering his prime and Cook's tendency to improve dramatically each year as he proved to do last year (without Phil).
Granted Phil has a very impressive resume and highly respected which goes a long way in gaining the respect and admiration of his players. This in turn can have a positive impact on their game, but I really think that a lot of other factors are at play than to conclude that Phil is the major factor of the Laker success. I would also suggest that the Lakers success is not that great as matter of fact and has been very erratic so far this year. The record hasn't dramatically improves so far and considering that the new players we acquired were much more defensive minded in contrast to Chucky and Caron who are not as defensive minded I think it is the players qualities rather than Phil that has improved the defense. Other than the improved defense I see little improvment over last year, thus while Phil brings respect and admiration from the players I think that circumstances outside of Phil has a lot to do with the Laker resurgence as moderate as that resurgence is so far.
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Drifts wrote:
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I'm not impressed. We've won more games because of Kobe's heroics than Phil's coaching...
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I think there is a lot to be said here...
What do you think our record would be now if Kobe were averaging 27 PPG this season as he did last year as oppossed to the 34 PPG he is averaging this year!!!
That is a difference right there of 7 ppg!!
I'll tell you what our record would be, we would undoubtedly have a losing record this year and the fact is our scoring would be less than what our defense gives up.
Kobe's ability to play healthy and raise his average dramatically is unquestionably a critical aspect to our above 500 record so far.
As Drift's suggests, a healthy Kobe is the biggest factor to our winning record this year. But beyond that I think the more balanced team in the front line (especially defensively) along with a healthy George who adds even more needed defense that was missing last year.
Fact is it is not the offense that has kept us above 500, but the defense and I really don't think that Phil and the Triangle offense has a lot to do with that. Rather it is having the players that can contribute that kind of play as oppossed to what we had last year that is making the difference.
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CabinCreek44
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I give him a C.
We're 23-19 because Kobe is having an otherworldly season. He's a one-man wrecking crew in virtually every game. The team is getting nothing even remotely acceptable on a consistent basis at the offensive end from its second most talented player. Of course that's not all on Phil, but some of it is to be sure. Getting Odom involved night in and night out should be the No. 1 priority of this coaching staff the remainder of the season. They say they don't want to see Coltrane - I mean, Kobe - doing all this heavy lifting out there but yet that's what we see every night. So either someone isn't doing his job or someone (Odom) isn't listening. Either way, it's up to the coaching staff to make the proper corrections.
Defensively, we look much better than last season but there are still far too many breakdowns/mental lapses. If I hadn't watched that same thing the last 3 or 4 years of the Phil/Shaq/Kobe teams, I would lay that all at the feet of the current players, but...
Game management is still an issue with Phil. His substitutions are at times completely beyond logic. Continued fascination with Luke Walton is mind-boggling. No minutes for Bynum stupefying. Puts players on the bench who are playing well (Smush was the victim last night) and then forgets all about them.
Phil said he would be more involved during the games...I don't see it. Last night, two classic examples...his team comes out of the locker room sleepwalking to start the third, no timeout from Phil as they get blitzed 13-0. Then, in the OT, 7 seconds left and Kobe standing at the foul line to ice it, the zebras suddenly have a meeting at the scorer's table and decide to "correct a mistake" from an entire play sequence earlier, and suddenly there's 13 seconds on the clock and Smush at the foul line instead of Kobe! And Phil never moved! Unbelievable! I've never seen that happen in an NBA game! Whether the refs were right or wrong was irrelevant...Phil should have been over there in their faces demanding "WHAT THE BLUE HELL IS GOING ON OUT HERE??!!"
Phil gets credit for keeping his relationship straight with Kobe so far (although the Coltrane-Miles analogy smacks of an earlier time, I don't want to see any more of those), and for hiring Kareem (if indeed that was his idea) to work with Mihm (much improved) and Bynum. I guess Kwame is too advanced to have to worry about seeking out Kareem's advice, another situation that the coaching staff might want to correct.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still glad the guy is back (for now), but I still think he could be doing much much better. As Wolf points out, he cannot coach this team as if it is some battled-tested veteran squad capable of figuring it out while Phil practices his usual "let them eat cake" management style. He needs to do more.
And let me add...I've defended Mitch for a long time but the talent level on this team simply is not adding up out on the floor. One more major piece is necessary. If it doesn't come before the trading deadline, it simply HAS TO come in the offseason. |
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NY_LakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1297
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: |
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As long as you insist on listing things numerically ....
But first ... why did you ignore my point about substitution patterns???
1. Mihm started 103 out of 133 games in his first two years. You forget he was the number 7 pick in 2000 and was actually expected to contribute immediately. He was a major disappointment for Cleveland. Kareem has certainly helped him this year but it is well chronicled how early this season Phil's constant benching of him every time he picked up a cheap foul was the trick that got his attention (along with Phil showing him increased confidence at crunch time).
2. You are way off base on Cook. Yes ... he improved on 3 pt shooting last year. SO what? He is not even shooting 3 pointers this year. Last year he averaged 3 attempts a game ... this year less than a HALF per game. Instead Phil has him playing a decent backup PF this year whcih is where we need him. As a result he is playing MORE not less as you claim AND his overall FG perentage is WAY UP. He is shooting 52% this year compared to 42% last year in large part because Phil has stopped using him as an oversized 3 pt specialist the way the idiots did last year.
3. Same quality players that the other teams had??? You act as if Smush had never been in the NBA before. He was a rookie for a TERRIBLE Cleveland leam that went 17-65 in 2002-03, He played 66 games and started 18 because THEY had no choice. The other points were an injured Bimbo Coles and Terrible Brown (remeber him?). Smush played himself right off one of the worst teams in the league by being unable to shoot, pass, or handle the ball. Smush is effective on the Lakers BECAUSE of the triangle offense and Phil's offensive scheme's which minimize his poor handles and allows him more scoring opportunities.
4. I agree that Sash has played a big part in his improvement. Adding muscle and working hard in teh offseason. Despite all that though he was TERRIBLE in the preseason league. Not mediocre ... TERRIBLE. It wasn't until Phil got his hands on Sash that he started to show improvement. I do think that Kobe has also done wonders for this young man's confidence. But again ... the triangle and Phil using him in crunch time ... not to mention convincing him that he can have an impact as a DEFENSIVE player ... are the primary reasons for his improvement.
5. Kobe is great ... awesome ... the best. He would play great under ANY coach. However, give Phil credit for recognizing that by taking the burden of being all things ... PG, SG and Defensive specialist ... off of Kobe it would allow him to REALLY flourish like never before. Kobe as a free flowing offensive weapon with Odom and others setting HIM up has allowed Kobe to reach his highest level yet ... and I think he has another level in him yet.
6. Yes ... George has given us strong bench support as has Cook AND Sash AND Kwame (when Phil had him backing up Mihm). BUt as I stated above ... I give Phil credit for Cook and Sash. Plus Walton ... despite everyone's perception is no worse than last year ... it's just that last year everyone else was so bad he LOOKED better. He is actually better this year in both rebounding and passing. His shot is off and he has admittedly and mysteriously disappeared in several games but ... he is what he is.
Overall ... I give Phil WAY more credit than most people for the turnaround. But then again ... that's may just be the coach in me. I was never a good enough player (except for a brief time in my HS senior year) to play great without a great coaching scheme. So I have a tendency to give more credit than most to the coach ... both good and bad. Last year's disaster IMO was mainly due to absolutely LOUSY coaching.
| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: |
1) Mihm was a starter for an entire season for the first time in his career. Wouldn't one expect a player to naturally improve considering this. Also I think that Kareem is more responsible than anyone else beyond the added experience of a year of starting under his belt. Actually isn't this what you would expect from a player who has never had the opportunity to start until last year and is just now entering his prime with the very valuable added experience.
2) Cook improved dramatically LAST year with his very effective 3-point shot. Cook appears to me to be the type of player who is simply upgrading his game as a result of practice and simply based no his ability to catch and shoot the ball very effectively. I don't see this as somehow an outgrowth of Phil's enfluence in the least. As I said Cook's dramatic improvement last year supports my claim that Cook's improved play would have occured regardless of Phil and is simply a result of added experience. Actually if anything Phil is holding back Cook's development, imo due to more limited time on the court in contrast to last year.
3) In regards to Smush, I would agree that the added playing time that Phil is giving them him is impacting the improved play over previous seasons. But that is more out of necessity than anything else. Who else would Phil start at PG, for instance. If the Lakers had the same quality players that the other teams had that Smush was on in the past Smush would still be riding the bench even under Phil.
4) Sasha for the most part needed to bulk up, practice in the off-season and simply gain more confidence. The confidence he has gained I can attribute to Phil for suppporting him, yes, but otherwise what I mentioned before along with the added experience of a year has little to do with Phil.
5) For Kobe it is simple, as I said Kobe was suffering last year for many reasons, most of all his foot problems. Beyond that the personel distractions didn't help either. Kobe prepared, worked out and came into this season fully recovered and ready to go this season. I would have expected no less from Kobe under any coach, imo.
6) As far as the bench and Phil bringing the best out of "fringe" players, I will agree that he may have some impact in this area. But I really believe a completely healthy George is a huge reason the bench is better this year. I think you would agree that other than George and Cook (who I mentioned above) the bench is not that formidable. In fact I think you might agree that Luke has actually regressed in contrast to last year. So I contend it has more to do with the health of George at 27 entering his prime and Cook's tendency to improve dramatically each year as he proved to do last year (without Phil).
Granted Phil has a very impressive resume and highly respected which goes a long way in gaining the respect and admiration of his players. This in turn can have a positive impact on their game, but I really think that a lot of other factors are at play than to conclude that Phil is the major factor of the Laker success. I would also suggest that the Lakers success is not that great as matter of fact and has been very erratic so far this year. The record hasn't dramatically improves so far and considering that the new players we acquired were much more defensive minded in contrast to Chucky and Caron who are not as defensive minded I think it is the players qualities rather than Phil that has improved the defense. Other than the improved defense I see little improvment over last year, thus while Phil brings respect and admiration from the players I think that circumstances outside of Phil has a lot to do with the Laker resurgence as moderate as that resurgence is so far. |
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bambam
Star Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 9013
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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In the A to B territory.
Certianly nothing lower.
This team has 1 All star, one "starter" and 3 bench players as the rest of the starting unit. The bench consists of 3rd stringers.
23-19 is basically the same record as last season only the difficulty in the schedule so far is FAR from equal... I think before the memphis game where kobe elbowed miller, it was said on espn that the lakers schedule had been the 3rd most difficult in the league.
Thats a big change..In the first half of last season the lakers won by having the most home games and below .500 opponents out of any team in the league.
They play on the road well. THey were close to matching last seasons total in road wins in DECEMBER of this season. (not sure what it is @ currently and too lazy to check  )
Last edited by bambam on Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 22-19 is basically the same record as last season |
It's 23-19 now, Bammer
I agree no lower than a B. Kobe is having an amazing season, but you can also credit Phil Jackson for knowing that Kobe needed to stop being a facilitator and move Odom into that role.
If no adjustment were being made, Kobe would score 29 per and average 6 assists but be a leading TO'er in the league and be a little fatigued at the end of games. Not to mention, Kobe would also stop running the offense and go 1 on 1 from the point spot thus enabling way for another fued.
So a lot of Kobe's success is that Phil made the adjustment of removing Kobe from a guard role and placing him in an attack/scoring role.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bambam
Star Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 9013
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | 22-19 is basically the same record as last season |
It's 23-19 now, Bammer |
corrected.. thanks |
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iml84myd8s
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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D (Phil's grade)
I’m a Phil-guy who is somewhat pleased with the team this season.
However, here is why I think Phil deserves a D grade at the halfway point.
Cons
Hands-off approach during the draft…sat at home in Montana.
Hands-off approach on trades…Greg Pop takes full responsibility for his roster.
Moving LO to the point…Riley turned LO into an all star in the post.
Playing small ball against the Suns and other up & down teams.
Emphasis on defense has faded away as the season progressed.
Poor 3rd quarters are a result of halftime motivation and adjustments.
#1 reason – Lakers are a .500 ball club with the greatest player currently in the game.
Pros
Implementing a system…Rudy was just letting them play.
A high caliber coach takes some pressure off Kobe.
That’s it…
If the Lakers don’t get into the playoff and past the first round with arguably the greatest player and coach in the game, the Lakers season is a D-grade at best. I'm not lowering my expectations for the Lakers as long as Kobe and Phil are part of the team. The NBA does not have a hard salary cap. Therefore, any excuse about not having enough talent around Kobe is not a valid excuse!
The head coach is fully responsible for a team's success and failure. |
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