SUNS -at- LAKERS - 12-28-14 - DIY Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject: SUNS -at- LAKERS - 12-28-14 - DIY Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

Post them here. I didn't get to see the game tonight.
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Phillycheese
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject:

Starters:
Kobe - played within himself and more facilitator tonight. Too many turnovers and had a couple of forced shots but generally a quiet night. When he hit that big three I thought he was going to revert to hero mode but glad he did not. Had a number of blown assists as our bigs fumbled a few layups.

Hill - Disappointing performance with the missed wide open set shots from the top of key. He also missed a few close to basket baby hooks/shot puts. He rolled and Kobe expected a pop for another turnover. Defensively, he was was ok but still too many hoops in the paint.

Wes - Wes is the most uncoordinated 4th pick I have ever seen. Does not have a clue on how balls bounce off rims and loses concentration. Had a few nice jumpers for threes though and looked confident shooting. On d he caused a few turnovers with his long arms and ok man defense but still gets stuck on picks. Had a nice block but he can learn to keep those in play rather than putting them into the stands.

Davis - he needs topractice the FT because it was ugly. fumbled a few but had a nice roll with Kobe's pass finding him, and had another roll with Price. best defensive player we have. Kept his fouls in check so that was good.

Price - started off strong but not sure what happens in 2nd half as he fizzled out. Was a pest in general on D but did get his pocket oicked on the O side by Bledsoe. Could not stay in front of the Suns guards though so that was probably why he sat.

Bench
Lots of unconscious shooting from Nick who couldn't miss for a few threes and also was aggressive attacking the hoop. I was reallyhappy with Nick's play. Lin had a strong game and shot the ball well. He played good D on Thomas in the fourth. Two blocks and a steal so he was aggressive on D and that was probably why he played more than Price. Boozer had a couple of easy missed layups and a couple of push offs that really bother me. He did try to hard hedge a few pnr so the effort was there but he needs to be smarter with the shoves. Ellington had a nice baseline attack which was nice but he cannot handle the ball because bad things happen when he does and Sacre was a nonfactor.


Last edited by Phillycheese on Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mhan00
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:59 pm    Post subject:

Not too much to complain about besides the horrible rebounding and turnovers.

Kobe - good floor game, but a little careless with the ball. You could see that he was a little rusty from the time off, and he didn't force much today, which was good. Got burned a couple times on defense, but shored that up late. Those turnovers hurt, though.

Hill - paging Jordan Hill. Paging Jordan Hill. One rebound tonight from Hill will not get it done. And our attempt to post him up are laughable. Hill needs to find a way to contribute.

Davis - good game from Davis as he did his normal good job making himself a target for the guards and challenging on the rim. We need more boards from him, but he was working to challenge shots too, so hard to get too mad at him.

Price - insane first quarter from him. Knocking down threes, driving to the rim. And then he disappeared. Vanished. And he got KILLED on defense by Bledsoe. What happened Ronnie?

Wes - as cold as he was last game, he was hot this game. Great defense from him, and we had him on Dragic to Morris at different parts of the game. He had some nice blocks in transition and in the half court. He was also knocking down some big fourth quarter threes to help bring us back in it.

Nick - flame thrower hot when he first subbed in. He got a little colder as the game went on, but he compensated by moving his game inside the arc and making a couple nice drives. He got absolutely HAMMERED by Len on one dunk attempt with no call, and Swaggy came damn close to getting a T or getting thrown out even as a result. Crazy, idiotic no call.

Lin - this is the Lin we need. It helped that Thomas was guarding him for quite a bit, Lin did struggle when Bledsoe was on him. Got called for a couple of cheap fouls, but great defense from him, helping down low against bigs and recovering out to his man and challenging drives to the rim from his man. He did a good job getting his shot against a smaller man today, and he was hot from three himself, though he rimmed out what could have been one of the best shots of the night that would have tied it. Good job by Lin, more of this please.

Boozer - meh. Some decent scores, but he blew a couple of easy ones and he was the same horrible defensive sieve he's always been.

Wayne - not much from Wayne today. He had a nice transition layup and made himself a target for a Davis pass after Ed dived on the floor to get a ball. It would be nice to get Wayne some more shots off of thise curls off the screen he's so good at.

Sacre - I think he had a couple of nice challenges, especially one against Green where Rob went straight up, but the shot he showed in November is gone.

Scott - too much ISO for Kobe. We need to work to get Kobe easier shots. When we give it to him in the high post extended on the right side of the floor, the Suns just edged towards him. Anytime he got it down low the big came over to help. We need to work some quick strikes in for Kobe, and Scott just isn't doing it. Better minutes management for Kobe, but I'd like to see one or two more shaved off for now. Left Lin in to close, which was good, since Price had vanished and was getting killed on D. Starting lineup still isn't great, Price helped that a lot by catching fire, but that can't be depended on. Bledsoe still gave Price no credit on offense and was looking to help off of him all game long. And Price didn't make him pay much after the first quarter.
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tyusedney1
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:42 am    Post subject:

Kobe - :old:

Hill - :dead:

Davis - :apple:

Price - :) :dead:

Wes - :wink:

Nick - :devil: :bdead:

Lin - :bdance:

Boozer - :thumbsup: :thumbsdown:

Wayne - :)

Sacre - :huh:

Scott - :tank:

What?! no staticons?
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tyusedney1
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:43 am    Post subject:

at least give us the staticons, DB
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nshid
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:23 am    Post subject:

Kobe played facilitator tonight...just majority of Lakers "are who we thought they were".

This is another close game where no one else could take over the game other than Kobe. For some reason, many feel Kobe should be neutered from shooting and I don't get it. Kobe is better when he is himself. If Kobe gets in incredible form mid-season (gets his legs back, finds his shot - which is very plausible) and had a competent bunch around him that could close out these type of games, the Lakers would be a force to be reckoned with...unfortunately this is not the case.
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:48 am    Post subject:

DB - you deserve some time for your own life and everybody here GREATLY appreciate your efforts

The game is another confirmation that our roster is made of good NBA players that could/would be good complimentary bench players (at this time) - except for The Black Mamba

Players's Imact on the Game
Kobe - he stabilized the team by organizing the offensive sets through mainly controlling the ball in the post to force teams to double him (they were loading up on him) making him pass to open shooters where many times they missed

Davis - his production on the glass and D were a welcome sight. His improve FT (he has been working with the coaches to eliminate a "hitch" in his emotion) was not seen today. BScott has been awarding him with more PT

Hill - his pattern of inconsistency is continuing, as opposing coaches are scouting him. Of course, they are allowing him to be a consummate bricklayer who lives at the FT line and beyond. The old axiom of the reason why you are open is because they want you to take the shot applies here. His first priority should be getting boards. In practice, practice fimishimg at the rim would be nice - maybe he should consider attacking
attacking the basket with dunks since he is definitely does not have the offensive skills of Pau

Price - great example of a good NBA player best suited coming off the bench. His offensive production was good at the beginning but even his D disappeared as the game continued

JLin - he bounced back from a series of games where he disappeared and was tentative to where he actually made some impact on the game that allowed him to have more PT. He still is having problems finishing at the basket, something that he excelled at last year. Good NBA players will make shots during the game, clutch players will make it at crunch time - as JLin showed tonight. He generally kept his man in front of him and played better D.

Swaggy - he had a good bounce back game and added a needed spark. The ISO plays that used to be seen generally with Kobe went to him. He provided production on offense that was greatly needed. Starting to see a trend where opposing teams are posting him on the block to try to take him out of games. He is starting to add some diversity to his game by driving to the paint that Jordan Hill should do

Johnson - played better D and was making some of his shots. Unfortunately, not at the end. Considering his offensive inconsistencies, maybe BScott can try full court press (ala UCLA) with a lineup of Johnson, Davis, Hill, JLin and Kobe.

Ellington - as a starter, his influence on the game was minimal

Sacre - was he even on the court - lol
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JLinfanJoe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject:

To me, the Lakers offense is just too predictable in crunch time: just dump the ball to Kobe or Swaggy P and let them try and take their own defender one on one.

I don't really watch the Warriors much, but I do remember reading about a very effective three headed monster they had a few seasons ago when Jarrett Jack was with team: Jack would play point guard, and Curry and Thompson would start off ball and perhaps curl or come off screen to catch and shoot or catch and attack off a pass from Jack.

Wonder if something similar could work for Lakers (Lin, Kobe, Swaggy P), especially if it isn't set in stone who will get ball before play even starts and Lin is allowed to read and react and decide whether to get ball to Kobe, Swaggy, or try and take the ball to hoop himself or pull up for midrange jumper off dribble.

I would think that coordinated action, especially if Lin decides to keep the ball himself (or attack out of pnr with Ed Davis on floor nicely spaced by Kobe and Swaggy P off ball), would also be more likely to involve other players on court if defense has to start charging out away from rim to stop Lin.






Did a quick YouTube search for Jarrett Jack Warriors and found this:



http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20130426&game=DENGSW


(the type of space that the Curry / Thompson combo off ball creates for Jack reminds me of what Harden did for Lin when they used to attack from opposite sides of the court, where last year Lin literally started the season off shooting almost 50 40 90 because of all the attention Harden would draw from the defense (and those numbers only started to fall off when Harden started completely sitting out games to rest his swollen foot and teams could just start totally loading up to just stop Lin at the initial point of attack (IIRC, Sixers game and afterwards is when Harden started sitting out games to rest his swollen foot. Later on, injuries also started to play a factor (back spasms Warriors game, bruised knee Grizzlies game, perhaps a dislocated shoulder Knicks game, and then, at least to me, the deliberate marginalization of Lin out of Rockets offense going into All Star Break and especially at beginning of March (my thought is that Morey thought that reinserting Beverley into starting lineup would lead to an NBA championship for Rockets last year).


Last edited by JLinfanJoe on Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:13 am; edited 6 times in total
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LakersInFour
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Got called for a couple of cheap fouls


Lin is horrendous at this. If there's one thing you can count on, it's Lin giving up an unnecessary foul at the end of the shot-clock or a quarter, and standing there with his hands in the air with a stupid look on his face. He needs to have better situational awareness in those circumstances. Inexcusable.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject:

1 more win for the tank team!!!
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nshid
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:06 pm    Post subject:

Also, a lot of the Lakers bench played horrible off-the-ball 3-pt defense last night.

Just TURRIBLE!
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Shaqtin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:16 pm    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
Also, a lot of the Lakers bench played horrible off-the-ball 3-pt defense last night.

Just TURRIBLE!


Part of it is attributed to BS over support on guards helping to defend PnR and Zone. This issue has been addressed through preseason.
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Richmond
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:23 pm    Post subject:

LakersInFour wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
Got called for a couple of cheap fouls


Lin is horrendous at this. If there's one thing you can count on, it's Lin giving up an unnecessary foul at the end of the shot-clock or a quarter, and standing there with his hands in the air with a stupid look on his face. He needs to have better situational awareness in those circumstances. Inexcusable.

I think what he meant is that they weren't egregious and yet it still gets called. Swaggy was practically knocked off his feet on a body check and gets nothing but these little swipe fouls are called. HATE NBA reffing.
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nshid
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject:

Shaqtin wrote:
nshid wrote:
Also, a lot of the Lakers bench played horrible off-the-ball 3-pt defense last night.

Just TURRIBLE!


Part of it is attributed to BS over support on guards helping to defend PnR and Zone. This issue has been addressed through preseason.


It has nothing to do with BS or PnR strategy or Zone.

Other than Kobe and Swaggy, the other guards are out-matched with the rest of the Phoenix guards. They are just better. But this is still no excuse for the bench not bringing it defensively against a team that has been lighting it up at the 3 all year.

The truth is that the Lakers deserve to lose. This weak defense played by the 2nd stringers doesn't warrant a win. This and the fact these type of players need to be spoon fed offensively is what is stunting the Lakers from growing and truly being successful. Some of these players are parasites, just holding on for dear life, just happy to be there, continually sucking the life blood out of the team. These players don't possess the intangibles that allow them to improve and make the team better as the season progresses. In laymen terms, the other players should be putting their energies into cutting to the basket and setting up Kobe, Swaggy, Ed Davis, and Boozer for shots...not the other way around. It's not that complicated!
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psy123321123
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:19 pm    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
Kobe played facilitator tonight...just majority of Lakers "are who we thought they were".

This is another close game where no one else could take over the game other than Kobe. For some reason, many feel Kobe should be neutered from shooting and I don't get it. Kobe is better when he is himself. If Kobe gets in incredible form mid-season (gets his legs back, finds his shot - which is very plausible) and had a competent bunch around him that could close out these type of games, the Lakers would be a force to be reckoned with...unfortunately this is not the case.


8/30
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Shaqtin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
Shaqtin wrote:
nshid wrote:
Also, a lot of the Lakers bench played horrible off-the-ball 3-pt defense last night.

Just TURRIBLE!


Part of it is attributed to BS over support on guards helping to defend PnR and Zone. This issue has been addressed through preseason.


It has nothing to do with BS or PnR strategy or Zone.

Other than Kobe and Swaggy, the other guards are out-matched with the rest of the Phoenix guards. They are just better. But this is still no excuse for the bench not bringing it defensively against a team that has been lighting it up at the 3 all year.

The truth is that the Lakers deserve to lose. This weak defense played by the 2nd stringers doesn't warrant a win. This and the fact these type of players need to be spoon fed offensively is what is stunting the Lakers from growing and truly being successful. Some of these players are parasites, just holding on for dear life, just happy to be there, continually sucking the life blood out of the team. These players don't possess the intangibles that allow them to improve and make the team better as the season progresses. In laymen terms, the other players should be putting their energies into cutting to the basket and setting up Kobe, Swaggy, Ed Davis, and Boozer for shots...not the other way around. It's not that complicated!


Lakers offense from the bench is ranked 1#PPG from the line up change 10 games ago. Please the benched scored 56 pts. The problem is defense. We could not keep up with them.

You know why the 1st unit was benched? Because they got beat on defense.
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject:

Shaqtin wrote:
nshid wrote:
Shaqtin wrote:
nshid wrote:
Also, a lot of the Lakers bench played horrible off-the-ball 3-pt defense last night.

Just TURRIBLE!
Part of it is attributed to BS over support on guards helping to defend PnR and Zone. This issue has been addressed through preseason.
It has nothing to do with BS or PnR strategy or Zone.

Other than Kobe and Swaggy, the other guards are out-matched with the rest of the Phoenix guards. They are just better. But this is still no excuse for the bench not bringing it defensively against a team that has been lighting it up at the 3 all year.

The truth is that the Lakers deserve to lose. This weak defense played by the 2nd stringers doesn't warrant a win. This and the fact these type of players need to be spoon fed offensively is what is stunting the Lakers from growing and truly being successful. Some of these players are parasites, just holding on for dear life, just happy to be there, continually sucking the life blood out of the team. These players don't possess the intangibles that allow them to improve and make the team better as the season progresses. In laymen terms, the other players should be putting their energies into cutting to the basket and setting up Kobe, Swaggy, Ed Davis, and Boozer for shots...not the other way around. It's not that complicated!
eLakers offense from the bench is ranked 1#PPG from the line up change 10 games ago. Please the benched scored 56 pts. The problem is defense. We could not keep up with them.

You know why the 1st unit was benched? Because they got beat on defense.
D requires energy, effort and communications.

When players openly admitted that they were flat for a Christmas Day game, this is yet another indication that the players on this roster not name Kobe are best suited as bench players.

One can blame the system or the coach, but the bottom line is the players executing basic basketball plays. As Coach Dave stated on radio, BScott does not call out most of the plays. JLin should always enter the front court with speed to force the D to work and work with other players that actually hustling in various P&R situations. Hill needs to get boards and attack the basket on both sides of the ball. Johnson needs to ShutDown the opposing team'a top scorers. Boozer needs to move his feet on D. Swaggy needs to develop counters since he is being scouted.
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tyusedney1
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
Kobe played facilitator tonight...just majority of Lakers "are who we thought they were".

This is another close game where no one else could take over the game other than Kobe. For some reason, many feel Kobe should be neutered from shooting and I don't get it. Kobe is better when he is himself. If Kobe gets in incredible form mid-season (gets his legs back, finds his shot - which is very plausible) and had a competent bunch around him that could close out these type of games, the Lakers would be a force to be reckoned with...unfortunately this is not the case.


nobody is saying kobe should stop shooting. they are saying he should take better shots. and that doesn't mean he should be the main facilitator, either. how about playing OFF the ball like a SG is suppose to do? how about allowing the point guard to do their jobs and facilitate so that the whole team can get better looks? every team with a superstar that's trying to take over the coach's and pg's job is running their team into the ground
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nshid
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject:

tyusedney1 wrote:
nshid wrote:
Kobe played facilitator tonight...just majority of Lakers "are who we thought they were".

This is another close game where no one else could take over the game other than Kobe. For some reason, many feel Kobe should be neutered from shooting and I don't get it. Kobe is better when he is himself. If Kobe gets in incredible form mid-season (gets his legs back, finds his shot - which is very plausible) and had a competent bunch around him that could close out these type of games, the Lakers would be a force to be reckoned with...unfortunately this is not the case.


nobody is saying kobe should stop shooting. they are saying he should take better shots. and that doesn't mean he should be the main facilitator, either. how about playing OFF the ball like a SG is suppose to do? how about allowing the point guard to do their jobs and facilitate so that the whole team can get better looks? every team with a superstar that's trying to take over the coach's and pg's job is running their team into the ground


If Kobe goes into a supporting role, which you are clearly stating, who is going to take over and create for the team?

JLin is not a real PG, so all they have left is Price...and someone has to pick up the slack. Lin is more of a 2-guard and is too inconsistent on D, passing, and shooting to lead this team as the starting PG. Maybe there's hope in the near future, but right now...don't make me laugh.
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Shaqtin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
tyusedney1 wrote:
nshid wrote:
Kobe played facilitator tonight...just majority of Lakers "are who we thought they were".

This is another close game where no one else could take over the game other than Kobe. For some reason, many feel Kobe should be neutered from shooting and I don't get it. Kobe is better when he is himself. If Kobe gets in incredible form mid-season (gets his legs back, finds his shot - which is very plausible) and had a competent bunch around him that could close out these type of games, the Lakers would be a force to be reckoned with...unfortunately this is not the case.


nobody is saying kobe should stop shooting. they are saying he should take better shots. and that doesn't mean he should be the main facilitator, either. how about playing OFF the ball like a SG is suppose to do? how about allowing the point guard to do their jobs and facilitate so that the whole team can get better looks? every team with a superstar that's trying to take over the coach's and pg's job is running their team into the ground


If Kobe goes into a supporting role, which you are clearly stating, who is going to take over and create for the team?

JLin is not a real PG, so all they have left is Price...and someone has to pick up the slack. Lin is more of a 2-guard and is too inconsistent on D, passing, and shooting to lead this team as the starting PG. Maybe there's hope in the near future, but right now...don't make me laugh.


This team has enough offense to go to in Boozer, Young, Ellington, Wesley, and Lin. What they lack is defense giving up 109 since the lineup change. They do not have a true defensive center to stop teams in the paint.

Kobe has missed 12 consective game closing shots.
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
Shaqtin wrote:
nshid wrote:
Also, a lot of the Lakers bench played horrible off-the-ball 3-pt defense last night.

Just TURRIBLE!


Part of it is attributed to BS over support on guards helping to defend PnR and Zone. This issue has been addressed through preseason.


It has nothing to do with BS or PnR strategy or Zone.

Other than Kobe and Swaggy, the other guards are out-matched with the rest of the Phoenix guards. They are just better. But this is still no excuse for the bench not bringing it defensively against a team that has been lighting it up at the 3 all year.

The truth is that the Lakers deserve to lose. This weak defense played by the 2nd stringers doesn't warrant a win. This and the fact these type of players need to be spoon fed offensively is what is stunting the Lakers from growing and truly being successful. Some of these players are parasites, just holding on for dear life, just happy to be there, continually sucking the life blood out of the team. These players don't possess the intangibles that allow them to improve and make the team better as the season progresses. In laymen terms, the other players should be putting their energies into cutting to the basket and setting up Kobe, Swaggy, Ed Davis, and Boozer for shots...not the other way around. It's not that complicated!


I haven't had time to watch the full game yet, but this discussion got me interested so I pulled up the reel of made Suns 3s from NBA.com. There was only one play where you could say that the bench played bad off ball D on the 3 point shooters, and that was Lin losing Thomas on the weakside while standing on the nail.

For starters the one example was Price helping in the post off Dragic and giving up an open 3- but I don't blame him because it's clear that that's what Byron wants.

The rest of the 3s were the Suns taking advantage of the inherent weaknesses of the Lakers zone.

For on ball 3s, 1 was in transition, and 2 were because the defenders decided to go under screens, which you can't tell whether it was a mistake or in the game plan.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
nshid wrote:
Shaqtin wrote:
nshid wrote:
Also, a lot of the Lakers bench played horrible off-the-ball 3-pt defense last night.

Just TURRIBLE!


Part of it is attributed to BS over support on guards helping to defend PnR and Zone. This issue has been addressed through preseason.


It has nothing to do with BS or PnR strategy or Zone.

Other than Kobe and Swaggy, the other guards are out-matched with the rest of the Phoenix guards. They are just better. But this is still no excuse for the bench not bringing it defensively against a team that has been lighting it up at the 3 all year.

The truth is that the Lakers deserve to lose. This weak defense played by the 2nd stringers doesn't warrant a win. This and the fact these type of players need to be spoon fed offensively is what is stunting the Lakers from growing and truly being successful. Some of these players are parasites, just holding on for dear life, just happy to be there, continually sucking the life blood out of the team. These players don't possess the intangibles that allow them to improve and make the team better as the season progresses. In laymen terms, the other players should be putting their energies into cutting to the basket and setting up Kobe, Swaggy, Ed Davis, and Boozer for shots...not the other way around. It's not that complicated!


I haven't had time to watch the full game yet, but this discussion got me interested so I pulled up the reel of made Suns 3s from NBA.com. There was only one play where you could say that the bench played bad off ball D on the 3 point shooters, and that was Lin losing Thomas on the weakside while standing on the nail.

For starters the one example was Price helping in the post off Dragic and giving up an open 3- but I don't blame him because it's clear that that's what Byron wants.

The rest of the 3s were the Suns taking advantage of the inherent weaknesses of the Lakers zone.

For on ball 3s, 1 was in transition, and 2 were because the defenders decided to go under screens, which you can't tell whether it was a mistake or in the game plan.


This!
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Shaqtin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject:

Alloy wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
nshid wrote:
Shaqtin wrote:
nshid wrote:
Also, a lot of the Lakers bench played horrible off-the-ball 3-pt defense last night.

Just TURRIBLE!


Part of it is attributed to BS over support on guards helping to defend PnR and Zone. This issue has been addressed through preseason.


It has nothing to do with BS or PnR strategy or Zone.

Other than Kobe and Swaggy, the other guards are out-matched with the rest of the Phoenix guards. They are just better. But this is still no excuse for the bench not bringing it defensively against a team that has been lighting it up at the 3 all year.

The truth is that the Lakers deserve to lose. This weak defense played by the 2nd stringers doesn't warrant a win. This and the fact these type of players need to be spoon fed offensively is what is stunting the Lakers from growing and truly being successful. Some of these players are parasites, just holding on for dear life, just happy to be there, continually sucking the life blood out of the team. These players don't possess the intangibles that allow them to improve and make the team better as the season progresses. In laymen terms, the other players should be putting their energies into cutting to the basket and setting up Kobe, Swaggy, Ed Davis, and Boozer for shots...not the other way around. It's not that complicated!


I haven't had time to watch the full game yet, but this discussion got me interested so I pulled up the reel of made Suns 3s from NBA.com. There was only one play where you could say that the bench played bad off ball D on the 3 point shooters, and that was Lin losing Thomas on the weakside while standing on the nail.

For starters the one example was Price helping in the post off Dragic and giving up an open 3- but I don't blame him because it's clear that that's what Byron wants.

The rest of the 3s were the Suns taking advantage of the inherent weaknesses of the Lakers zone.

For on ball 3s, 1 was in transition, and 2 were because the defenders decided to go under screens, which you can't tell whether it was a mistake or in the game plan.


This!


Dave Miller and the gang kept on harping on BS on this over help on PnR defense and using zone at the beginning of preseason. The lack of a defensive Center is also attribute to this and miss rotations. I don't know why Scott kept on playing Zone on a team that shoots 3 consistantly.
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tyusedney1
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
tyusedney1 wrote:
nshid wrote:
Kobe played facilitator tonight...just majority of Lakers "are who we thought they were".

This is another close game where no one else could take over the game other than Kobe. For some reason, many feel Kobe should be neutered from shooting and I don't get it. Kobe is better when he is himself. If Kobe gets in incredible form mid-season (gets his legs back, finds his shot - which is very plausible) and had a competent bunch around him that could close out these type of games, the Lakers would be a force to be reckoned with...unfortunately this is not the case.


nobody is saying kobe should stop shooting. they are saying he should take better shots. and that doesn't mean he should be the main facilitator, either. how about playing OFF the ball like a SG is suppose to do? how about allowing the point guard to do their jobs and facilitate so that the whole team can get better looks? every team with a superstar that's trying to take over the coach's and pg's job is running their team into the ground


If Kobe goes into a supporting role, which you are clearly stating, who is going to take over and create for the team?

JLin is not a real PG, so all they have left is Price...and someone has to pick up the slack. Lin is more of a 2-guard and is too inconsistent on D, passing, and shooting to lead this team as the starting PG. Maybe there's hope in the near future, but right now...don't make me laugh.


what are you talking about? Price is a real PG and Lin isn't? laff. in fact, Lin is a much better PG than he is a SG. BS is an offensive dummy who doesn't know how to utilize his players to their strength. he doesn't have an offensive strategy. the only thing he's doing is running the offense through Kobe. they need to play correct way, see what works, then tweak it a bit
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Honeybadger81
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject:

tyusedney1 wrote:
nshid wrote:
tyusedney1 wrote:
nshid wrote:
Kobe played facilitator tonight...just majority of Lakers "are who we thought they were".

This is another close game where no one else could take over the game other than Kobe. For some reason, many feel Kobe should be neutered from shooting and I don't get it. Kobe is better when he is himself. If Kobe gets in incredible form mid-season (gets his legs back, finds his shot - which is very plausible) and had a competent bunch around him that could close out these type of games, the Lakers would be a force to be reckoned with...unfortunately this is not the case.


nobody is saying kobe should stop shooting. they are saying he should take better shots. and that doesn't mean he should be the main facilitator, either. how about playing OFF the ball like a SG is suppose to do? how about allowing the point guard to do their jobs and facilitate so that the whole team can get better looks? every team with a superstar that's trying to take over the coach's and pg's job is running their team into the ground


If Kobe goes into a supporting role, which you are clearly stating, who is going to take over and create for the team?

JLin is not a real PG, so all they have left is Price...and someone has to pick up the slack. Lin is more of a 2-guard and is too inconsistent on D, passing, and shooting to lead this team as the starting PG. Maybe there's hope in the near future, but right now...don't make me laugh.


what are you talking about? Price is a real PG and Lin isn't? laff. in fact, Lin is a much better PG than he is a SG. BS is an offensive dummy who doesn't know how to utilize his players to their strength. he doesn't have an offensive strategy. the only thing he's doing is running the offense through Kobe. they need to play correct way, see what works, then tweak it a bit



this team only Kobe and Lin can make plays for teammates, Kobe depends on his passes off double teaming, JLin creates through PnR, on transition, drive to the lane... Jlin might not consistently play his best when teaming up with Kobe, but Kobe's offense is lot better when Jlin is on the court...
JHill's offense also suffers since Lin was demoted to the bench....
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