I like his skillset and I think in 2 years he'll have it all together. It take PGs and Centers the longest IMO to get the game.
sounds about right. he's no lillard, obviously, but he can still be a pretty decent player.
he's really only played significant minutes for 2 years, going into his third. outside of that stretch in new york, year 1 in houston was more or less his rookie year, and he averaged 16 and 5 and made the playoffs. 2nd year he went to the bench because they needed another defender next to harden. and 3rd year, here we are, him trying to figure out where he fits on the team.
i'd give him a little more time to really know his game and get it all together.
Doesn't help that there is no one on this team for him to PnR with as that is probably his only elite skill. The rest of his skill set is pretty average.
well, you can look it as a golden opportunity for him to shore up his weaknesses.
Hmm true he did do just that in Houston working on his lefty and improving his catch and shoot numbers.
it seems like everyone is (bleep) about or hating Lin even though we didn't have Kobe. i know it is a loss but this team was fighting hard until the end without Kobe.
Exactly, our starting unit consisted of Ronnie Price, Ryan Kelly, Jordan Hill, Ed Davis, and Wayne Ellington.....I mean seriously guys, if the game was close at the end, who did you really think was going to win the game?
You know, Young is capable of hitting a big contested shot, Lin, but better on a drive or a shorter step-back, or someone getting hammered and nailing the FTs. Team got cold for a stretch in the 4th so Portland came back powered by Lillard. No shame, it was a very competitive game and I think Portland fans were sweating through most of it.
Was there anything in way Portland was defending so that Lin and Ed Davis couldn't have attacked out of pnr if Byron Scott had asked them to?
Portland defends the PnR the same way as Indiana, and to some extent the same way we do. They would have sagged back and tried to make Lin take a contested mid range jumper.
So Davis is covered and they are packing the paint?
I'm not going to jump into another Price vs Lin debate. But from a purely basketball perspective, Price was not very good on defense tonight.
Damn, this too...
bws94 wrote:
I've seen Lillard get hot and score in the 4th against top defenders. Lin played him pretty well, Lilllard got hot. Lin gets beat on drives, so does Price, and at the other end Lin can beat others on drives. That's his value. If I'm coach I say when they beat you on the drive, Lin, drive right back at them. That's what PGs with quickness and quick first steps do to each other, very few can stay in front of each other. Sometimes they recover and block or alter shots, which Lin can do sometimes.
Geez...another good one....
Reflexx wrote:
We really shouldn't be expecting any one player to stop Damien effing Lillard. If that guy is "on", then he's one of the best in the game.
Christ..you guys must be super fast typist compared to me... beating me to the punch with these thoughts...
mhan00 wrote:
Price wasn't better than Lin on d tonight, IMO. He got roasted by Steve BLake of all people in the first half during that 10-0 run the Blazers put on us. Blake crossed him up two times straight to get into the lane and create plays. He also got wiped out on screens and nothing I saw convinces me he would have done anything more than Lin on those Lillard threes coming off the screens. If the big doesn't come up on that shot, it is very hard to contest.
Whoa, Whoa...BUT NOT THIS TOUGH...
Laker Intervention wrote:
I'm sorry. But Russ Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, or even Beverley aren't going to let Lillard have a 4th quarter like that. It's how Lin was guarding him. The Lillard layup that gave them the lead off the timeout was all on Lin. I'm sorry, as a basketball coach the onus is on him. I have no hesitation when I say that. It took 7 seconds and Lin just had a mental lapse.
The 3s - yes Lillard was on fire. But you can still fight the screens. The fact that you're turning this conversation into what Lin can do offense is deflecting from my purpose and only gravitating the conversation into the very intention I'm avoiding. The reflex of some people here to respond to criticism of Lin by highlighting positives of him that aren't related to the criticism is what turns these conversations into Lord of the Rings length discussions. I'm not doing that. I'll be more emphatic one last time - No more Lin vs. Price. Team played hard. We lost for many reasons. Neither is a starting PG in a PG heavy league. They both had good moments tonight. They both had bad. The end.
OK...look, you just indicated that Lin is a back up so I'm scratching my head as to why you feel the need to even mention the likes of Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, etc... They should be better, right?
I mean, is it me?
Oh. My… Okay. For the last time. I was not comparing him to elite! I was simply responding to people saying no one could have defended that. In the ways he was scoring there's tactical ways to play that screen. Also the layup that took the lead was on Lin. It just was. I'm not expecting Lin to have stopped that whole 4th quarter. Lillard was on fire. Is it me or is no one saying Lin could have stopped that layup. Is it me or did someone actually show Lin's stats against a Bulls team that had no Rose and a Thunder game where Russ wasn't guarding him.
Again, Lillard is fantastic. He could do that to those players as well. I don't expect Lin to be an elite defender. But if you say no one could have guarded the way in which he scored tonight, I simply disagree. Not that anyone would have completely shut him down. Some was preventable. Okay we disagree, I'm fine with that Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
Agreed that he should have been able to stop him but after Lillard just hit 2 3s on screens he was overplaying him to try and prevent another 3 but Lillard burned him for it.
If you looked at how he was defending him before those 2 3s Lillard would have needed a screen for a lay up as he was playing him a step or 2 away and not all over him which allowed him to burn lin for the layup.
Last edited by Hurrican on Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
I'm not going to jump into another Price vs Lin debate. But from a purely basketball perspective, Price was not very good on defense tonight.
Damn, this too...
bws94 wrote:
I've seen Lillard get hot and score in the 4th against top defenders. Lin played him pretty well, Lilllard got hot. Lin gets beat on drives, so does Price, and at the other end Lin can beat others on drives. That's his value. If I'm coach I say when they beat you on the drive, Lin, drive right back at them. That's what PGs with quickness and quick first steps do to each other, very few can stay in front of each other. Sometimes they recover and block or alter shots, which Lin can do sometimes.
Geez...another good one....
Reflexx wrote:
We really shouldn't be expecting any one player to stop Damien effing Lillard. If that guy is "on", then he's one of the best in the game.
Christ..you guys must be super fast typist compared to me... beating me to the punch with these thoughts...
mhan00 wrote:
Price wasn't better than Lin on d tonight, IMO. He got roasted by Steve BLake of all people in the first half during that 10-0 run the Blazers put on us. Blake crossed him up two times straight to get into the lane and create plays. He also got wiped out on screens and nothing I saw convinces me he would have done anything more than Lin on those Lillard threes coming off the screens. If the big doesn't come up on that shot, it is very hard to contest.
Whoa, Whoa...BUT NOT THIS TOUGH...
Laker Intervention wrote:
I'm sorry. But Russ Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, or even Beverley aren't going to let Lillard have a 4th quarter like that. It's how Lin was guarding him. The Lillard layup that gave them the lead off the timeout was all on Lin. I'm sorry, as a basketball coach the onus is on him. I have no hesitation when I say that. It took 7 seconds and Lin just had a mental lapse.
The 3s - yes Lillard was on fire. But you can still fight the screens. The fact that you're turning this conversation into what Lin can do offense is deflecting from my purpose and only gravitating the conversation into the very intention I'm avoiding. The reflex of some people here to respond to criticism of Lin by highlighting positives of him that aren't related to the criticism is what turns these conversations into Lord of the Rings length discussions. I'm not doing that. I'll be more emphatic one last time - No more Lin vs. Price. Team played hard. We lost for many reasons. Neither is a starting PG in a PG heavy league. They both had good moments tonight. They both had bad. The end.
OK...look, you just indicated that Lin is a back up so I'm scratching my head as to why you feel the need to even mention the likes of Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, etc... They should be better, right?
I mean, is it me?
Oh. My… Okay. For the last time. I was not comparing him to elite! I was simply responding to people saying no one could have defended that. In the ways he was scoring there's tactical ways to play that screen. Also the layup that took the lead was on Lin. It just was. I'm not expecting Lin to have stopped that whole 4th quarter. Lillard was on fire. Is it me or is no one saying Lin could have stopped that layup. Is it me or did someone actually show Lin's stats against a Bulls team that had no Rose and a Thunder game where Russ wasn't guarding him.
Again, Lillard is fantastic. He could do that to those players as well. I don't expect Lin to be an elite defender. But if you say no one could have guarded the way in which he scored tonight, I simply disagree. Not that anyone would have completely shut him down. Some was preventable. Okay we disagree, I'm fine with that Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
Agreed that he should have been able to stop him but after Lillard just hit 2 3s on screens he was overplaying him to try and prevent another 3 but Lillard burned him for it.
Yeah the big also needed to communicate better so it's not just on Lin. I never said Lin's defense was horrible. I said a few of those plays were preventable. The biggest mistake was that layup and it was at a crucial moment. But Lillard was also great. Scott should have taken a timeout and told Lin and the big how to play that screen. 45 degree hedge with Lin fighting to make Lilllard go left would have been a tougher shot for Lillard going change in direction.
All good. It wasn't why we lost. Just something to learn from.
Last edited by Laker Intervention on Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
By the way, Lillard is very good offensively but he is a bad defender.
Another tank game that did not look like a tank. No coaching adjustment and ISO play smh.
We pretty much should have been doing the same thing right back at them. P&R them to death.
Agreed. Our coach is allergic to P&R. We can P&R them to death but we're not doing that....very baffling. Tanking in a subtle way.
Nope, our coach was just allergic to Lin playing with Davis.
both
Price/Davis/Hill
Lin/Boozer runs P&R and P&P
Kinda wished Booz would roll more instead of popping because I dunno why but I am amazed that his rainbow arc shot is able to go in as much as it does.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:54 pm Post subject:
bws94 wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
JLinfanJoe wrote:
Hi fiendishoc:
Was there anything in way Portland was defending so that Lin and Ed Davis couldn't have attacked out of pnr if Byron Scott had asked them to?
Portland defends the PnR the same way as Indiana, and to some extent the same way we do. They would have sagged back and tried to make Lin take a contested mid range jumper.
So Davis is covered and they are packing the paint?
They'd just drop Davis' man next to the basket. Also, if Booze is in there and too close, his man would help too.
I'm not going to jump into another Price vs Lin debate. But from a purely basketball perspective, Price was not very good on defense tonight.
Damn, this too...
bws94 wrote:
I've seen Lillard get hot and score in the 4th against top defenders. Lin played him pretty well, Lilllard got hot. Lin gets beat on drives, so does Price, and at the other end Lin can beat others on drives. That's his value. If I'm coach I say when they beat you on the drive, Lin, drive right back at them. That's what PGs with quickness and quick first steps do to each other, very few can stay in front of each other. Sometimes they recover and block or alter shots, which Lin can do sometimes.
Geez...another good one....
Reflexx wrote:
We really shouldn't be expecting any one player to stop Damien effing Lillard. If that guy is "on", then he's one of the best in the game.
Christ..you guys must be super fast typist compared to me... beating me to the punch with these thoughts...
mhan00 wrote:
Price wasn't better than Lin on d tonight, IMO. He got roasted by Steve BLake of all people in the first half during that 10-0 run the Blazers put on us. Blake crossed him up two times straight to get into the lane and create plays. He also got wiped out on screens and nothing I saw convinces me he would have done anything more than Lin on those Lillard threes coming off the screens. If the big doesn't come up on that shot, it is very hard to contest.
Whoa, Whoa...BUT NOT THIS TOUGH...
Laker Intervention wrote:
I'm sorry. But Russ Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, or even Beverley aren't going to let Lillard have a 4th quarter like that. It's how Lin was guarding him. The Lillard layup that gave them the lead off the timeout was all on Lin. I'm sorry, as a basketball coach the onus is on him. I have no hesitation when I say that. It took 7 seconds and Lin just had a mental lapse.
The 3s - yes Lillard was on fire. But you can still fight the screens. The fact that you're turning this conversation into what Lin can do offense is deflecting from my purpose and only gravitating the conversation into the very intention I'm avoiding. The reflex of some people here to respond to criticism of Lin by highlighting positives of him that aren't related to the criticism is what turns these conversations into Lord of the Rings length discussions. I'm not doing that. I'll be more emphatic one last time - No more Lin vs. Price. Team played hard. We lost for many reasons. Neither is a starting PG in a PG heavy league. They both had good moments tonight. They both had bad. The end.
OK...look, you just indicated that Lin is a back up so I'm scratching my head as to why you feel the need to even mention the likes of Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, etc... They should be better, right?
I mean, is it me?
Oh. My… Okay. For the last time. I was not comparing him to elite! I was simply responding to people saying no one could have defended that. In the ways he was scoring there's tactical ways to play that screen. Also the layup that took the lead was on Lin. It just was. I'm not expecting Lin to have stopped that whole 4th quarter. Lillard was on fire. Is it me or is no one saying Lin could have stopped that layup. Is it me or did someone actually show Lin's stats against a Bulls team that had no Rose and a Thunder game where Russ wasn't guarding him.
Again, Lillard is fantastic. He could do that to those players as well. I don't expect Lin to be an elite defender. But if you say no one could have guarded the way in which he scored tonight, I simply disagree. Not that anyone would have completely shut him down. Some was preventable. Okay we disagree, I'm fine with that Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
Hey Mr... I actually understand where you might be coming from. However, I think where your message can get misconstrued is that you might be coming off as stating what you deem to be facts vs. your opinions. 'Cause in that case, I'm guessing that there are others here who will try to spank you with their own opinions.
But for the sake of peace, bloody hell, we can congenially disagree. Hopefully, you cool wit dat?
Notice in the replay what Lin does? He assumes Lillard's gonna use the pick, which is what Lillard had been doing all 4th quarter, so Lin tries to head him off which is what you're supposed to do to defeat the pnr. Lillard sees this, and changes direction.
Ed sees this too, but gets beat to the rack.
I'm not going to jump into another Price vs Lin debate. But from a purely basketball perspective, Price was not very good on defense tonight.
Damn, this too...
bws94 wrote:
I've seen Lillard get hot and score in the 4th against top defenders. Lin played him pretty well, Lilllard got hot. Lin gets beat on drives, so does Price, and at the other end Lin can beat others on drives. That's his value. If I'm coach I say when they beat you on the drive, Lin, drive right back at them. That's what PGs with quickness and quick first steps do to each other, very few can stay in front of each other. Sometimes they recover and block or alter shots, which Lin can do sometimes.
Geez...another good one....
Reflexx wrote:
We really shouldn't be expecting any one player to stop Damien effing Lillard. If that guy is "on", then he's one of the best in the game.
Christ..you guys must be super fast typist compared to me... beating me to the punch with these thoughts...
mhan00 wrote:
Price wasn't better than Lin on d tonight, IMO. He got roasted by Steve BLake of all people in the first half during that 10-0 run the Blazers put on us. Blake crossed him up two times straight to get into the lane and create plays. He also got wiped out on screens and nothing I saw convinces me he would have done anything more than Lin on those Lillard threes coming off the screens. If the big doesn't come up on that shot, it is very hard to contest.
Whoa, Whoa...BUT NOT THIS TOUGH...
Laker Intervention wrote:
I'm sorry. But Russ Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, or even Beverley aren't going to let Lillard have a 4th quarter like that. It's how Lin was guarding him. The Lillard layup that gave them the lead off the timeout was all on Lin. I'm sorry, as a basketball coach the onus is on him. I have no hesitation when I say that. It took 7 seconds and Lin just had a mental lapse.
The 3s - yes Lillard was on fire. But you can still fight the screens. The fact that you're turning this conversation into what Lin can do offense is deflecting from my purpose and only gravitating the conversation into the very intention I'm avoiding. The reflex of some people here to respond to criticism of Lin by highlighting positives of him that aren't related to the criticism is what turns these conversations into Lord of the Rings length discussions. I'm not doing that. I'll be more emphatic one last time - No more Lin vs. Price. Team played hard. We lost for many reasons. Neither is a starting PG in a PG heavy league. They both had good moments tonight. They both had bad. The end.
OK...look, you just indicated that Lin is a back up so I'm scratching my head as to why you feel the need to even mention the likes of Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, etc... They should be better, right?
I mean, is it me?
Oh. My… Okay. For the last time. I was not comparing him to elite! I was simply responding to people saying no one could have defended that. In the ways he was scoring there's tactical ways to play that screen. Also the layup that took the lead was on Lin. It just was. I'm not expecting Lin to have stopped that whole 4th quarter. Lillard was on fire. Is it me or is no one saying Lin could have stopped that layup. Is it me or did someone actually show Lin's stats against a Bulls team that had no Rose and a Thunder game where Russ wasn't guarding him.
Again, Lillard is fantastic. He could do that to those players as well. I don't expect Lin to be an elite defender. But if you say no one could have guarded the way in which he scored tonight, I simply disagree. Not that anyone would have completely shut him down. Some was preventable. Okay we disagree, I'm fine with that Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
Hey Mr... I actually understand where you might be coming from. However, I think where your message can get misconstrued is that you might be coming off as stating what you deem to be facts vs. your opinions. 'Cause in that case, I'm guessing that there are others here who will try to spank you with their own opinions.
But for the sake of peace, bloody hell, we can congenially disagree. Hopefully, you cool wit dat?
As cool as the other side of the pillow
Nothing will make me happier than Lin having a big game on Sunday when we play them again.
I'm not going to jump into another Price vs Lin debate. But from a purely basketball perspective, Price was not very good on defense tonight.
Damn, this too...
bws94 wrote:
I've seen Lillard get hot and score in the 4th against top defenders. Lin played him pretty well, Lilllard got hot. Lin gets beat on drives, so does Price, and at the other end Lin can beat others on drives. That's his value. If I'm coach I say when they beat you on the drive, Lin, drive right back at them. That's what PGs with quickness and quick first steps do to each other, very few can stay in front of each other. Sometimes they recover and block or alter shots, which Lin can do sometimes.
Geez...another good one....
Reflexx wrote:
We really shouldn't be expecting any one player to stop Damien effing Lillard. If that guy is "on", then he's one of the best in the game.
Christ..you guys must be super fast typist compared to me... beating me to the punch with these thoughts...
mhan00 wrote:
Price wasn't better than Lin on d tonight, IMO. He got roasted by Steve BLake of all people in the first half during that 10-0 run the Blazers put on us. Blake crossed him up two times straight to get into the lane and create plays. He also got wiped out on screens and nothing I saw convinces me he would have done anything more than Lin on those Lillard threes coming off the screens. If the big doesn't come up on that shot, it is very hard to contest.
Whoa, Whoa...BUT NOT THIS TOUGH...
Laker Intervention wrote:
I'm sorry. But Russ Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, or even Beverley aren't going to let Lillard have a 4th quarter like that. It's how Lin was guarding him. The Lillard layup that gave them the lead off the timeout was all on Lin. I'm sorry, as a basketball coach the onus is on him. I have no hesitation when I say that. It took 7 seconds and Lin just had a mental lapse.
The 3s - yes Lillard was on fire. But you can still fight the screens. The fact that you're turning this conversation into what Lin can do offense is deflecting from my purpose and only gravitating the conversation into the very intention I'm avoiding. The reflex of some people here to respond to criticism of Lin by highlighting positives of him that aren't related to the criticism is what turns these conversations into Lord of the Rings length discussions. I'm not doing that. I'll be more emphatic one last time - No more Lin vs. Price. Team played hard. We lost for many reasons. Neither is a starting PG in a PG heavy league. They both had good moments tonight. They both had bad. The end.
OK...look, you just indicated that Lin is a back up so I'm scratching my head as to why you feel the need to even mention the likes of Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, etc... They should be better, right?
I mean, is it me?
Oh. My… Okay. For the last time. I was not comparing him to elite! I was simply responding to people saying no one could have defended that. In the ways he was scoring there's tactical ways to play that screen. Also the layup that took the lead was on Lin. It just was. I'm not expecting Lin to have stopped that whole 4th quarter. Lillard was on fire. Is it me or is no one saying Lin could have stopped that layup. Is it me or did someone actually show Lin's stats against a Bulls team that had no Rose and a Thunder game where Russ wasn't guarding him.
Again, Lillard is fantastic. He could do that to those players as well. I don't expect Lin to be an elite defender. But if you say no one could have guarded the way in which he scored tonight, I simply disagree. Not that anyone would have completely shut him down. Some was preventable. Okay we disagree, I'm fine with that Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
Hey Mr... I actually understand where you might be coming from. However, I think where your message can get misconstrued is that you might be coming off as stating what you deem to be facts vs. your opinions. 'Cause in that case, I'm guessing that there are others here who will try to spank you with their own opinions.
But for the sake of peace, bloody hell, we can congenially disagree. Hopefully, you cool wit dat?
As cool as the other side of the pillow
Nothing will make me happier than Lin having a big game on Sunday when we play them again.
Ya you could tell Lin was getting pissed that Lillard was making those 3s on him as he tried to get to the rim on the next 2 plays but sadly the paint was packed.
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Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
