I'm not going to jump into another Price vs Lin debate. But from a purely basketball perspective, Price was not very good on defense tonight.
Damn, this too...
bws94 wrote:
I've seen Lillard get hot and score in the 4th against top defenders. Lin played him pretty well, Lilllard got hot. Lin gets beat on drives, so does Price, and at the other end Lin can beat others on drives. That's his value. If I'm coach I say when they beat you on the drive, Lin, drive right back at them. That's what PGs with quickness and quick first steps do to each other, very few can stay in front of each other. Sometimes they recover and block or alter shots, which Lin can do sometimes.
Geez...another good one....
Reflexx wrote:
We really shouldn't be expecting any one player to stop Damien effing Lillard. If that guy is "on", then he's one of the best in the game.
Christ..you guys must be super fast typist compared to me... beating me to the punch with these thoughts...
mhan00 wrote:
Price wasn't better than Lin on d tonight, IMO. He got roasted by Steve BLake of all people in the first half during that 10-0 run the Blazers put on us. Blake crossed him up two times straight to get into the lane and create plays. He also got wiped out on screens and nothing I saw convinces me he would have done anything more than Lin on those Lillard threes coming off the screens. If the big doesn't come up on that shot, it is very hard to contest.
Whoa, Whoa...BUT NOT THIS TOUGH...
Laker Intervention wrote:
I'm sorry. But Russ Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, or even Beverley aren't going to let Lillard have a 4th quarter like that. It's how Lin was guarding him. The Lillard layup that gave them the lead off the timeout was all on Lin. I'm sorry, as a basketball coach the onus is on him. I have no hesitation when I say that. It took 7 seconds and Lin just had a mental lapse.
The 3s - yes Lillard was on fire. But you can still fight the screens. The fact that you're turning this conversation into what Lin can do offense is deflecting from my purpose and only gravitating the conversation into the very intention I'm avoiding. The reflex of some people here to respond to criticism of Lin by highlighting positives of him that aren't related to the criticism is what turns these conversations into Lord of the Rings length discussions. I'm not doing that. I'll be more emphatic one last time - No more Lin vs. Price. Team played hard. We lost for many reasons. Neither is a starting PG in a PG heavy league. They both had good moments tonight. They both had bad. The end.
OK...look, you just indicated that Lin is a back up so I'm scratching my head as to why you feel the need to even mention the likes of Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, etc... They should be better, right?
I mean, is it me?
Oh. My… Okay. For the last time. I was not comparing him to elite! I was simply responding to people saying no one could have defended that. In the ways he was scoring there's tactical ways to play that screen. Also the layup that took the lead was on Lin. It just was. I'm not expecting Lin to have stopped that whole 4th quarter. Lillard was on fire. Is it me or is no one saying Lin could have stopped that layup. Is it me or did someone actually show Lin's stats against a Bulls team that had no Rose and a Thunder game where Russ wasn't guarding him.
Again, Lillard is fantastic. He could do that to those players as well. I don't expect Lin to be an elite defender. But if you say no one could have guarded the way in which he scored tonight, I simply disagree. Not that anyone would have completely shut him down. Some was preventable. Okay we disagree, I'm fine with that Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
Hey Mr... I actually understand where you might be coming from. However, I think where your message can get misconstrued is that you might be coming off as stating what you deem to be facts vs. your opinions. 'Cause in that case, I'm guessing that there are others here who will try to spank you with their own opinions.
But for the sake of peace, bloody hell, we can congenially disagree. Hopefully, you cool wit dat?
As cool as the other side of the pillow
Nothing will make me happier than Lin having a big game on Sunday when we play them again.
First time poster here. I've been following Lin's NBA career since the NY days then Huston and now LA. Just wanted to offer my 2 cents:
1) Lakersground is by far the most civilized forum I've ever been to regarding any discussion related to Jeremy. I mean if the same game type of game happened in Huston the Cluthfans would explode and Lin would get ripped a new one. So that is very refreshing for me to say the least.
2) Being a huge Lin fan, I would have to agree on the layup made by Lillard being 100% on Lin. I'm not saying the game loss is on Lin, but the layup was surely the turning point. Sure good PGs are hard to defend in today's league. As someone said before "Lillard can''t guard Lillard tonight." Still Lin could have handle that move better. But other than that, I think he had a OK game. Not great or close to his best, but good enough.
3) I'm actually quite happy with the result tonight. LAL played an entertaining game, kept the game close, loose the game so keep the lottery pick dream alive, but did not loose too much to the point it demoralize both the players and the fans. JHill up his trade value a bit, Price was solid for the most part, Jeremy 14 points in 21 mins and 3rd game in a role in double digit. Plus Kobe got some rest time. No complain here.
I'm not going to jump into another Price vs Lin debate. But from a purely basketball perspective, Price was not very good on defense tonight.
Damn, this too...
bws94 wrote:
I've seen Lillard get hot and score in the 4th against top defenders. Lin played him pretty well, Lilllard got hot. Lin gets beat on drives, so does Price, and at the other end Lin can beat others on drives. That's his value. If I'm coach I say when they beat you on the drive, Lin, drive right back at them. That's what PGs with quickness and quick first steps do to each other, very few can stay in front of each other. Sometimes they recover and block or alter shots, which Lin can do sometimes.
Geez...another good one....
Reflexx wrote:
We really shouldn't be expecting any one player to stop Damien effing Lillard. If that guy is "on", then he's one of the best in the game.
Christ..you guys must be super fast typist compared to me... beating me to the punch with these thoughts...
mhan00 wrote:
Price wasn't better than Lin on d tonight, IMO. He got roasted by Steve BLake of all people in the first half during that 10-0 run the Blazers put on us. Blake crossed him up two times straight to get into the lane and create plays. He also got wiped out on screens and nothing I saw convinces me he would have done anything more than Lin on those Lillard threes coming off the screens. If the big doesn't come up on that shot, it is very hard to contest.
Whoa, Whoa...BUT NOT THIS TOUGH...
Laker Intervention wrote:
I'm sorry. But Russ Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, or even Beverley aren't going to let Lillard have a 4th quarter like that. It's how Lin was guarding him. The Lillard layup that gave them the lead off the timeout was all on Lin. I'm sorry, as a basketball coach the onus is on him. I have no hesitation when I say that. It took 7 seconds and Lin just had a mental lapse.
The 3s - yes Lillard was on fire. But you can still fight the screens. The fact that you're turning this conversation into what Lin can do offense is deflecting from my purpose and only gravitating the conversation into the very intention I'm avoiding. The reflex of some people here to respond to criticism of Lin by highlighting positives of him that aren't related to the criticism is what turns these conversations into Lord of the Rings length discussions. I'm not doing that. I'll be more emphatic one last time - No more Lin vs. Price. Team played hard. We lost for many reasons. Neither is a starting PG in a PG heavy league. They both had good moments tonight. They both had bad. The end.
OK...look, you just indicated that Lin is a back up so I'm scratching my head as to why you feel the need to even mention the likes of Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, etc... They should be better, right?
I mean, is it me?
Oh. My… Okay. For the last time. I was not comparing him to elite! I was simply responding to people saying no one could have defended that. In the ways he was scoring there's tactical ways to play that screen. Also the layup that took the lead was on Lin. It just was. I'm not expecting Lin to have stopped that whole 4th quarter. Lillard was on fire. Is it me or is no one saying Lin could have stopped that layup. Is it me or did someone actually show Lin's stats against a Bulls team that had no Rose and a Thunder game where Russ wasn't guarding him.
Again, Lillard is fantastic. He could do that to those players as well. I don't expect Lin to be an elite defender. But if you say no one could have guarded the way in which he scored tonight, I simply disagree. Not that anyone would have completely shut him down. Some was preventable. Okay we disagree, I'm fine with that Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
Agreed that he should have been able to stop him but after Lillard just hit 2 3s on screens he was overplaying him to try and prevent another 3 but Lillard burned him for it.
Yeah the big also needed to communicate better so it's not just on Lin. I never said Lin's defense was horrible. I said a few of those plays were preventable. The biggest mistake was that layup and it was at a crucial moment. But Lillard was also great. Scott should have taken a timeout and told Lin and the big how to play that screen. 45 degree hedge with Lin fighting to make Lilllard go left would have been a tougher shot for Lillard going change in direction.
All good. It wasn't why we lost. Just something to learn from.
Scott doesn't call time outs because he has no solutions anyway. It would just be, "Hey guys. We're getting burned there. Yeah... Just so you know. Ok. I got nuthin. Good luck."
Last edited by Reflexx on Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Notice in the replay what Lin does? He assumes Lillard's gonna use the pick, which is what Lillard had been doing all 4th quarter, so Lin tries to head him off which is what you're supposed to do to defeat the pnr. Lillard sees this, and changes direction. I feel it's unfair to blame Lin for this. What's he supposed to do? Follow Lillard around the pick, and let him shoot a 3 which is what he had done several times already in the quarter?
Last edited by jormungand on Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
it seems expectations have gone up considerably since nov/dec.
forget that tonight's game was a b2b, on the road, against a top tier team, without kobe, if this were 5 weeks ago, everyone on LG would be whooping it up and saying what a great game the team played despite the loss.
look at the bright side, the team has improved by leaps and bounds from the time Charles Barkley pleaded on the air to take the Lakers out from national TV schedules, and it is obvious that a lot of this has come from players getting to know each other more and playing more games together.
the games have become more watchable by far, and hopefully the team keeps improving because if they continue this path, am sure people will say the '15 team is a breath of fresh air compared to the '14 team.
let's not let our heightened expectations spoil our enjoyment
Notice in the replay what Lin does? He assumes Lillard's gonna use the pick, which is what Lillard had been doing all 4th quarter, so Lin tries to head him off which is what you're supposed to do to defeat the pnr. Lillard sees this, and changes direction. I feel it's unfair to blame Lin for this. What's he supposed to do? Follow Lillard around the pick, and let him shoot a 3 which is what he had done several times already in the quarter?
Well I wouldn't mind that if Jeremy put up a bit more fight when Lilliard went pass him and lay it up. As soon as Lilliard get away from Lin Lin basically just gave up, no chasing up, no attempt to foul/block, no nothing. I'm not blaming Jeremy for letting Lilliard slip through, it happened to the best of PG. I just think Jeremy can do better and put up a bit more fight after that.
Notice in the replay what Lin does? He assumes Lillard's gonna use the pick, which is what Lillard had been doing all 4th quarter, so Lin tries to head him off which is what you're supposed to do to defeat the pnr. Lillard sees this, and changes direction. I feel it's unfair to blame Lin for this. What's he supposed to do? Follow Lillard around the pick, and let him shoot a 3 which is what he had done several times already in the quarter?
Well I wouldn't mind that if Jeremy put up a bit more fight when Lilliard went pass him and lay it up. As soon as Lilliard get away from Lin Lin basically just gave up, no chasing up, no attempt to foul/block, no nothing. I'm not blaming Jeremy for letting Lilliard slip through, it happened to the best of PG. I just think Jeremy can do better and put up a bit more fight after that.
watching it again, I think it's already established that it's already a switched with ed Davis, ed davis is already between lin and lillard. It's like Lin telling davis to go for the block and I will get your man (LA). Davis then got beat, and hill came over to help. I think we played that one correctly, Lillard was just too quick. The result will actually be better if Davis came from the weak side instead of hill.
And someone please explain why ed davis only played one minute in the 4th? we need him to guard the paint.
Notice in the replay what Lin does? He assumes Lillard's gonna use the pick, which is what Lillard had been doing all 4th quarter, so Lin tries to head him off which is what you're supposed to do to defeat the pnr. Lillard sees this, and changes direction. I feel it's unfair to blame Lin for this. What's he supposed to do? Follow Lillard around the pick, and let him shoot a 3 which is what he had done several times already in the quarter?
Well I wouldn't mind that if Jeremy put up a bit more fight when Lilliard went pass him and lay it up. As soon as Lilliard get away from Lin Lin basically just gave up, no chasing up, no attempt to foul/block, no nothing. I'm not blaming Jeremy for letting Lilliard slip through, it happened to the best of PG. I just think Jeremy can do better and put up a bit more fight after that.
watching it again, I think it's already established that it's already a switched with ed Davis, ed davis is already between lin and lillard. It's like Lin telling davis to go for the block and I will get your man (LA). Davis then got beat, and hill came over to help. I think we played that one correctly, Lillard was just too quick. The result will actually be better if Davis came from the weak side instead of hill.
And someone please explain why ed davis only played one minute in the 4th? we need him to guard the paint.
Any explanation would sound like a conspiracy theory because there is no sane explanation that would fit.
Notice in the replay what Lin does? He assumes Lillard's gonna use the pick, which is what Lillard had been doing all 4th quarter, so Lin tries to head him off which is what you're supposed to do to defeat the pnr. Lillard sees this, and changes direction. I feel it's unfair to blame Lin for this. What's he supposed to do? Follow Lillard around the pick, and let him shoot a 3 which is what he had done several times already in the quarter?
Well I wouldn't mind that if Jeremy put up a bit more fight when Lilliard went pass him and lay it up. As soon as Lilliard get away from Lin Lin basically just gave up, no chasing up, no attempt to foul/block, no nothing. I'm not blaming Jeremy for letting Lilliard slip through, it happened to the best of PG. I just think Jeremy can do better and put up a bit more fight after that.
watching it again, I think it's already established that it's already a switched with ed Davis, ed davis is already between lin and lillard. It's like Lin telling davis to go for the block and I will get your man (LA). Davis then got beat, and hill came over to help. I think we played that one correctly, Lillard was just too quick. The result will actually be better if Davis came from the weak side instead of hill.
And someone please explain why ed davis only played one minute in the 4th? we need him to guard the paint.
Any explanation would sound like a conspiracy theory because there is no sane explanation that would fit.
I kind of like the stealth tank hypothesis myself hehe.
why nobody talks about booze's habitual push leading to 4 points play
i love boozer, but man, can he not do this in one game???
He probably has 5 that don't get called that may have resulted in its getting possession.
Yeah he does it because he finds success with it. He's pushing someone on every play but only gets 3 fouls per game. Much more often than not, it means a shooter is being pushed while he's shooting, a rebounder is being pushed out of position, or a defender is being pushed away from his man.
Notice in the replay what Lin does? He assumes Lillard's gonna use the pick, which is what Lillard had been doing all 4th quarter, so Lin tries to head him off which is what you're supposed to do to defeat the pnr. Lillard sees this, and changes direction. I feel it's unfair to blame Lin for this. What's he supposed to do? Follow Lillard around the pick, and let him shoot a 3 which is what he had done several times already in the quarter?
Watching it again, it does really look like Davis should have been more aggressive to keep Lillard from driving to the hoop (or at least should have fouled him and forced him to FTs). Lin and Davis switched pretty much the moment the pass was made, so it looks like that's how they prepared to defend the play.
The bigs in the 4th quarter sagged into the paint too much and Portland exploited this. Whenever you have Boozer and Hill together, neither one likes to come out to defend because they are both too slow to recover into the paint. Coach should have put Davis in much earlier than 40 sec left. Standard play was whoever is guarded by Boozer or Hill would come out to set the pick. Boozer or Hill would sit back too far and the guard coming around the screen has a lot of daylight to shoot since his defender has been rubbed off by the big and Boozer/Hill are not close enough to contest. There was not lot the guard could do since he has no time to recover. Portland bigs set some good picks and Lillard used it effectively.
Good game overall and Scott just needs to tweak his P&R defending a little to eliminate these plays. Big needs to come out and take on the ball handler and guard has to chase to double team otherwise they're going to get killed if the ball handler is hitting shots.
The bigs in the 4th quarter sagged into the paint too much and Portland exploited this. Whenever you have Boozer and Hill together, neither one likes to come out to defend because they are both too slow to recover into the paint. Coach should have put Davis in much earlier than 40 sec left. Standard play was whoever is guarded by Boozer or Hill would come out to set the pick. Boozer or Hill would sit back too far and the guard coming around the screen has a lot of daylight to shoot since his defender has been rubbed off by the big and Boozer/Hill are not close enough to contest. There was not lot the guard could do since he has no time to recover. Portland bigs set some good picks and Lillard used it effectively.
Good game overall and Scott just needs to tweak his P&R defending a little to eliminate these plays. Big needs to come out and take on the ball handler and guard has to chase to double team otherwise they're going to get killed if the ball handler is hitting shots.
Davis would come in earlier if price isn't injured.
I'm not going to jump into another Price vs Lin debate. But from a purely basketball perspective, Price was not very good on defense tonight.
Damn, this too...
bws94 wrote:
I've seen Lillard get hot and score in the 4th against top defenders. Lin played him pretty well, Lilllard got hot. Lin gets beat on drives, so does Price, and at the other end Lin can beat others on drives. That's his value. If I'm coach I say when they beat you on the drive, Lin, drive right back at them. That's what PGs with quickness and quick first steps do to each other, very few can stay in front of each other. Sometimes they recover and block or alter shots, which Lin can do sometimes.
Geez...another good one....
Reflexx wrote:
We really shouldn't be expecting any one player to stop Damien effing Lillard. If that guy is "on", then he's one of the best in the game.
Christ..you guys must be super fast typist compared to me... beating me to the punch with these thoughts...
mhan00 wrote:
Price wasn't better than Lin on d tonight, IMO. He got roasted by Steve BLake of all people in the first half during that 10-0 run the Blazers put on us. Blake crossed him up two times straight to get into the lane and create plays. He also got wiped out on screens and nothing I saw convinces me he would have done anything more than Lin on those Lillard threes coming off the screens. If the big doesn't come up on that shot, it is very hard to contest.
Whoa, Whoa...BUT NOT THIS TOUGH...
Laker Intervention wrote:
I'm sorry. But Russ Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, or even Beverley aren't going to let Lillard have a 4th quarter like that. It's how Lin was guarding him. The Lillard layup that gave them the lead off the timeout was all on Lin. I'm sorry, as a basketball coach the onus is on him. I have no hesitation when I say that. It took 7 seconds and Lin just had a mental lapse.
The 3s - yes Lillard was on fire. But you can still fight the screens. The fact that you're turning this conversation into what Lin can do offense is deflecting from my purpose and only gravitating the conversation into the very intention I'm avoiding. The reflex of some people here to respond to criticism of Lin by highlighting positives of him that aren't related to the criticism is what turns these conversations into Lord of the Rings length discussions. I'm not doing that. I'll be more emphatic one last time - No more Lin vs. Price. Team played hard. We lost for many reasons. Neither is a starting PG in a PG heavy league. They both had good moments tonight. They both had bad. The end.
OK...look, you just indicated that Lin is a back up so I'm scratching my head as to why you feel the need to even mention the likes of Westbrook, Conley, CP3, Rondo, Rose, etc... They should be better, right?
I mean, is it me?
Oh. My… Okay. For the last time. I was not comparing him to elite! I was simply responding to people saying no one could have defended that. In the ways he was scoring there's tactical ways to play that screen. Also the layup that took the lead was on Lin. It just was. I'm not expecting Lin to have stopped that whole 4th quarter. Lillard was on fire. Is it me or is no one saying Lin could have stopped that layup. Is it me or did someone actually show Lin's stats against a Bulls team that had no Rose and a Thunder game where Russ wasn't guarding him.
Again, Lillard is fantastic. He could do that to those players as well. I don't expect Lin to be an elite defender. But if you say no one could have guarded the way in which he scored tonight, I simply disagree. Not that anyone would have completely shut him down. Some was preventable. Okay we disagree, I'm fine with that Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
Hey Mr... I actually understand where you might be coming from. However, I think where your message can get misconstrued is that you might be coming off as stating what you deem to be facts vs. your opinions. 'Cause in that case, I'm guessing that there are others here who will try to spank you with their own opinions.
But for the sake of peace, bloody hell, we can congenially disagree. Hopefully, you cool wit dat?
Sheesh. Enough already. I've seen the "elite" Beverly get burned many times by Lillard. As someone smart said "Russell Westbrook couldn't cover Russell Westbrook". Its a team game, or I should say the only way to win is as a team. Team DEFENSE. Also people keep talking of "a player that can make his own shot". That's a losing strategy just as pick & pop and JHill's long range jumpers. Sure they get hot the Lakers do well. They, or as last night HIll goes cold and the Lakers lose.
Lin should feel bad about choking that Airball. But it's should make him want to take the next one has well.
As many people on this forum like to note Kobe Byrant is seen as one of the most clutch players of all time and this happened to him...
_________________ For the whole real truth about Jeremy Lin and his toxic tenure with Houston and Kevin Mchale to a new beginning with the Lakers read my post on Pg 108 in "Official Jeremy Lin thread" posted 11/20/14 at 7:39pm.
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Sorry if people can't deal with reality.
