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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| SDLakersFan wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | Lowry just wasn't famous enough to be an offseason priority. Probably couldn't have got him anyway because he actually likes his teammates and the city, but if they threw more money at him who knows! He's a bargain at what's he's currently making and I said that at the time.
The Melo obsession was just sad. |
Think management was going for a homerun, which is why they didn't go after guys like Lowry. |
For his contract Lowry has turned out to be a home run or at the least a triple. Hopefully lesson learned. |
This is a prime case of working backward from a premise and making it fit, when it fact it doesn't really. Toronto has built their team around Lowry, given him the coach he praises for turning him into the player he could be, put him beside a complementary option that also happens to be his best buddy, and stocked the team with more complementary players, some young with upside. All in a city he truly loves living in. Hes happy as can be there, so while he will certainly look at offers, he had no real desire to leave. He believes in what they are doing, and as you can see, that belief is not misplaced. They are a solid team.
But even if he was entertaining LA as a serious alternative, he could easily have waited, because Toronto was not going to just go a different direction. He probably could have gotten even more money. The bottom line is he didn't really want LA more than Toronto. |
LMAO you guys are laying it on pretty thick. Short term memory or nah?
And I quote...
| Quote: | According to several reports, the Knicks were prepared to trade Raymond Felton and Metta World Peace plus Iman Shumpert or Tim Hardaway Jr. or a 2018 first-round pick. The Raptors preferred the first-round pick, but Dolan — who negotiated the Carmelo Anthony trade with Raptors GM Masai Ujiri when Ujiri was with the Denver Nuggets — got cold feet about trading a future asset. That could open the door for the Brooklyn Nets to acquire Lowry instead.
“Dolan didn’t want to get fleeced again by Masai,” was how one Knicks source put it. “They had a deal ready.” |
The Raptors were hours away from trading Lowry for Felton, Artest, and a 1st Round Pick.
Who knows how that trade could've reshaped things for both franchises. Maybe the Knicks would suck and still be in rebuild mode. Maybe Melo + Lowry was enough to make noise in the East. |
I totally forgot about that. You are right, they were one 2019 1st rounder away from getting Lowry for basically nothing. Toronto lucked into keeping Lowry to be frank, and Lakers not even reaching out to him since his agent told him that the Lakers were going to wait around for LBJ/Melo was also verified by guys like Zach Lowe.
Regardless, I don't think anyone disagrees at $12m/year Lowry is an amazing deal.
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | mykeinla wrote: | | Oh i dont know. Did the lakers FO make the right decision with steve nash? |
FO made an "All In" gamble that 99% of the people (including Magic) thought was a great deal
Melo and Lebron are with their present teams and if the Lakers has them, they still would not be the favorites (especially with have multiple $$$$$$$ on the DL and scrubs playing instead).
Would Laker fans sit still with Phil saying that it was his mistake in misjudging the talent while the team is going through a LONG losing streak - nope. DFish is in a bad situation of trying to teach old dogs new tricks and it ain't working
As the article memtioned, Knicks will have CAP space but they will have to overpay one star a max contract to attract others. They have the risk of signing a Rashard Lewis/DWill/Rudy Gay/Amare-type contracts that Isiah Thomas was infamously known for because of the judgement of players that has recently been seen.
Mitch has demonstrated the ability to pick the right star/superstar players to win rings. It might not be fan favs such as Marc Gasol, but Mitch seems to pull off trades that surprises people and win rings |
The Nash deal was not a great deal, sure fans were happy but the price was way to high, the Dwight deal was messy, getting nothing for Gasol was a huge mistake, Mike Brown and MDA coaching debacles were huge mistakes.
Also, the argument that is old is the failure of the CP3 deal. The CP3 deal was not the best deal for the Lakers. Missing out on trading with Houston for Gasol was the biggest mistake. The options with Houston would have been far better than the CP3 deal. What has the CP3 deal done with the Clippers?
Mitch and Jim have made a mess of the Lakers future. Mitch is following orders but he is part of the mess that is the Lakers today. |
If there's an unspoken popularity requirement the Buss kids have put on new acquisitions I'll give Mitch a pass. The TWC deal, from what little has been confirmed and reported, probably exacerbates an already tough balancing act between pleasing the lowest common denominator and doing what's best to build a quality team. The Knicks are the best example. |
No doubt Mitch is following orders, taking orders from a spoiled owner has got to be hard to take, however putting bread on the table is the highest priority for any family, so I will give Mitch 1/2 a pass.
The Knicks are a mess, but cleaning house needs to be done before the team can move forward.
It will be interesting to see who recovers from bad management first, the Lakers or Knicks. |
Your comments are interesting since the vast majority of all basketball experts felt that it was a great trade and most had assumed that they would be in The Finals.
Not sure what you meant by "trading with Houston for Gasol"
CP3, at the time of the trade, was judged by many as the best PG. They were in the process of getting D12 creating a lineup with Kobe, CP3 and Howard. His performance with the Clippers is irrevelevant to what he would have some with the Lakers
Why would you think that the "Houston" deal was better?
Dr. Buss wanted MDA
Mitch is a first class GM, better than GM Phil Jackson |
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DocK36
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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A few people here also wanted Blatt to be our head coach, so far his NBA coaching debut in Cleveland has been a debacle.
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silkwilkes
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the Lakers can "move on" before Kobe retires and that's just another year away. Until then, i'm more interested on the kids we draft and the FAs we sign then coach, president, etc.
We're in transition. There's is no magic wand for that. |
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TheLakerWay
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:48 am Post subject: |
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I think the FO made the right decisions with Zen Master & DFish, yeah.
I also think the FO was correct about Melo.
If we could have gotten Lebron I would have taken him, even though I can't stand him personally. But now he is breaking down too. |
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Tony Anapolis
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: |
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[quote="dino"]the mistake was in not pursuing lowry more ardently...[/quote"
Could not agree more, I said the same thing back then. If Nash at 39 was worth two first rounders, we could have got Lowry for the same. This is the biggest mistake the fo has made since 2010. I would say the hiccups really started after 2010 finals, should of shook things up a bit and traded some combination of Artest, LO, Gasol, or Bynum. Value was sky high after 2010 Nba finals. The teams play was slipping by the end of that season, Kobe was already getting old. Then again the CP3 trade was genious and we can not fault the fo for that disaster. Then should of never hired Mike Brown, then should of hired Phil. Dwight Howard is a wash to me because imo when they traded for Nash and didnt hire Phil, I think that was the end of that. As far as the way they handled Dwight is irrelevant.
I thought Lowry would have been the perfect fit though lol. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| TheLakerWay wrote: | I think the FO made the right decisions with Zen Master & DFish, yeah.
I also think the FO was correct about Melo.
If we could have gotten Lebron I would have taken him, even though I can't stand him personally. But now he is breaking down too. |
By correct about Melo, surely you're not crediting them for not getting Melo (and his current injury-riddle state)? They went full-court to get Melo and in terms of off-season goals, they failed at that in going for him.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| SDLakersFan wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | Lowry just wasn't famous enough to be an offseason priority. Probably couldn't have got him anyway because he actually likes his teammates and the city, but if they threw more money at him who knows! He's a bargain at what's he's currently making and I said that at the time.
The Melo obsession was just sad. |
Think management was going for a homerun, which is why they didn't go after guys like Lowry. |
For his contract Lowry has turned out to be a home run or at the least a triple. Hopefully lesson learned. |
This is a prime case of working backward from a premise and making it fit, when it fact it doesn't really. Toronto has built their team around Lowry, given him the coach he praises for turning him into the player he could be, put him beside a complementary option that also happens to be his best buddy, and stocked the team with more complementary players, some young with upside. All in a city he truly loves living in. Hes happy as can be there, so while he will certainly look at offers, he had no real desire to leave. He believes in what they are doing, and as you can see, that belief is not misplaced. They are a solid team.
But even if he was entertaining LA as a serious alternative, he could easily have waited, because Toronto was not going to just go a different direction. He probably could have gotten even more money. The bottom line is he didn't really want LA more than Toronto. |
LMAO you guys are laying it on pretty thick. Short term memory or nah?
And I quote...
| Quote: | According to several reports, the Knicks were prepared to trade Raymond Felton and Metta World Peace plus Iman Shumpert or Tim Hardaway Jr. or a 2018 first-round pick. The Raptors preferred the first-round pick, but Dolan — who negotiated the Carmelo Anthony trade with Raptors GM Masai Ujiri when Ujiri was with the Denver Nuggets — got cold feet about trading a future asset. That could open the door for the Brooklyn Nets to acquire Lowry instead.
“Dolan didn’t want to get fleeced again by Masai,” was how one Knicks source put it. “They had a deal ready.” |
The Raptors were hours away from trading Lowry for Felton, Artest, and a 1st Round Pick.
Who knows how that trade could've reshaped things for both franchises. Maybe the Knicks would suck and still be in rebuild mode. Maybe Melo + Lowry was enough to make noise in the East. |
Nice memory SD. Moves that could've been made but didn't happen (like the one you mentioned) rarely come up in general when talking basketball, whether you're a lakers fan or not.
I know alot of LGers aren't fans of Melo.
But the Melo for Bynum trade that we turned down when Denver was shopping him keeps me up at night.
Think about all the years prime Kobe and young Melo could've had together to figure things out. Scary. Especially considering we'd still have Pau.
We also refused to get rid of Bynum for Bosh.
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6101304
Of course hindsight is 20/20. But Melo, Bosh, and even Lowry now are can't-miss players. If you can ever get them...do so.
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Last edited by kikanga on Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, imagine:
Fisher-Kobe-Melo-LO-Gasol. WHAT?
Would have been a beauty to watch and I do think Kobe/Melo would have gotten along just fine.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Yeah, imagine:
Fisher-Kobe-Melo-LO-Gasol. WHAT?
Would have been a beauty to watch and I do think Kobe/Melo would have gotten along just fine. |
Wouldn't have been harder for Phil to deal with than Kobe/Shaq.
Considering they have a great relationship off the court as well.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Yeah, imagine:
Fisher-Kobe-Melo-LO-Gasol. WHAT?
Would have been a beauty to watch and I do think Kobe/Melo would have gotten along just fine. |
Wouldn't have been harder for Phil to deal with than Kobe/Shaq.
Considering they have a great relationship off the court as well. |
I totally understand why Mitch/FO wanted to go after Dwight (and I approved the move at the time). We just didn't know that Dwight would bolt so quickly. But yeah, fun to dream. Kobe/Melo in relative primes, oh my, with Odom/Pau providing more versatility at the big spot?
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheLakerWay wrote: | I think the FO made the right decisions with Zen Master & DFish, yeah.
I also think the FO was correct about Melo.
If we could have gotten Lebron I would have taken him, even though I can't stand him personally. But now he is breaking down too. |
By correct about Melo, surely you're not crediting them for not getting Melo (and his current injury-riddle state)? They went full-court to get Melo and in terms of off-season goals, they failed at that in going for him. |
FO was very serious about getting Melo but they realized that a team based on Melo, Pau (he didn't signed with the Bulls at that time) and Kobe could not win with scrubs coming in - as oppose to a Shaq/Kobe (vintage) or Lebron/DWade/Bosh teams because of their age and wear & tear.
The FO is gathering good complimentary players that is just 1 or 2 star players away. imho - the Lakers' way is a faster way back to being a title contender, as oppose to gathering a large number of draft choices (ala Danny Ainge). Since the only draft choices were acquiring will be kept by the Celtics, the 2nd round and low 1st round choices will usually get good complimentary that will need a minimum of a couple seasons to see if they can even stay in the NBA |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheLakerWay wrote: | I think the FO made the right decisions with Zen Master & DFish, yeah.
I also think the FO was correct about Melo.
If we could have gotten Lebron I would have taken him, even though I can't stand him personally. But now he is breaking down too. |
By correct about Melo, surely you're not crediting them for not getting Melo (and his current injury-riddle state)? They went full-court to get Melo and in terms of off-season goals, they failed at that in going for him. |
FO was very serious about getting Melo but they realized that a team based on Melo, Pau (he didn't signed with the Bulls at that time) and Kobe could not win with scrubs coming in - as oppose to a Shaq/Kobe (vintage) or Lebron/DWade/Bosh teams because of their age and wear & tear.
The FO is gathering good complimentary players that is just 1 or 2 star players away. imho - the Lakers' way is a faster way back to being a title contender, as oppose to gathering a large number of draft choices (ala Danny Ainge). Since the only draft choices were acquiring will be kept by the Celtics, the 2nd round and low 1st round choices will usually get good complimentary that will need a minimum of a couple seasons to see if they can even stay in the NBA |
By "realized" are you referring to after Melo rejected the Lakers max offer and full court pitch by the Lakers? And when Pau rejected a larger contract which had a coveted no trade clause?
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Lakers2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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This FO has screwed up so many times in the last few off seasons that i have no faith in them to get it right heading into the summer 2015.
No going after Lowery because they waited on melo and Lebron both whom had zero interest in the Lakers EVER!! You have to wonder will they screw up again this summer? |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheLakerWay wrote: | I think the FO made the right decisions with Zen Master & DFish, yeah.
I also think the FO was correct about Melo.
If we could have gotten Lebron I would have taken him, even though I can't stand him personally. But now he is breaking down too. |
By correct about Melo, surely you're not crediting them for not getting Melo (and his current injury-riddle state)? They went full-court to get Melo and in terms of off-season goals, they failed at that in going for him. |
FO was very serious about getting Melo but they realized that a team based on Melo, Pau (he didn't signed with the Bulls at that time) and Kobe could not win with scrubs coming in - as oppose to a Shaq/Kobe (vintage) or Lebron/DWade/Bosh teams because of their age and wear & tear.
The FO is gathering good complimentary players that is just 1 or 2 star players away. imho - the Lakers' way is a faster way back to being a title contender, as oppose to gathering a large number of draft choices (ala Danny Ainge). Since the only draft choices were acquiring will be kept by the Celtics, the 2nd round and low 1st round choices will usually get good complimentary that will need a minimum of a couple seasons to see if they can even stay in the NBA |
By "realized" are you referring to after Melo rejected the Lakers max offer and full court pitch by the Lakers? And when Pau rejected a larger contract which had a coveted no trade clause? |
Regarding Melo, was the FO very serious in trying to get Melo - yes. To satisfy their rabid fan base and Time Warner, it had to be serious. One would think that an "All In" offer would have included a few extra perks to compensate for the many millions Melo would be giving up. If the salary situation was the same - except the player was Anthony Davis, Kevin Durrant or Russell Westbrook - one could very easily visualize that it would truly be a full-blown John Wooden UCLA full-court press presentation with Jeanie, Mitch, Jimmy, Magic, Big Game James, Kareem and Shaq in the room.
In Pau's situation, without Melo or Lebron, it made complete sense that they parted ways. The FO's offer was out of respect for all the things that Pau has done for the team. With a Melo, Pau and Kobe-led team still having problems getting out of the first round - the Bulls was a better choice. A Melo-Pau led team will have even more issues. The FO would have the issue of 2 aging stars that would have delayed getting younger. Pau's decision was good for all parties |
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deal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I guess the thing here is that the FO gets no credit for anything regarding Melo, James, Pau, etc...they were victims; Lakers were blown off by all of them. Not getting PJ to coach when they hired MDA was an error, you don't put a time clock on one of the greatest coaches of all time in the middle of the night and then go with someone else; it doesn't matter who, in the FO, is to blame for that...
Maybe I don't get the heading on this tread and I'm off base with my comment...
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TheLakerWay
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheLakerWay wrote: | I think the FO made the right decisions with Zen Master & DFish, yeah.
I also think the FO was correct about Melo.
If we could have gotten Lebron I would have taken him, even though I can't stand him personally. But now he is breaking down too. |
By correct about Melo, surely you're not crediting them for not getting Melo (and his current injury-riddle state)? They went full-court to get Melo and in terms of off-season goals, they failed at that in going for him. |
Didn't Shelburne say they really weren't interested in Melo?
Either way, I'm just glad we didn't get him. So if the FO went all in on Melo, then I'm against that. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| TheLakerWay wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheLakerWay wrote: | I think the FO made the right decisions with Zen Master & DFish, yeah.
I also think the FO was correct about Melo.
If we could have gotten Lebron I would have taken him, even though I can't stand him personally. But now he is breaking down too. |
By correct about Melo, surely you're not crediting them for not getting Melo (and his current injury-riddle state)? They went full-court to get Melo and in terms of off-season goals, they failed at that in going for him. |
Didn't Shelburne say they really weren't interested in Melo?
Either way, I'm just glad we didn't get him. So if the FO went all in on Melo, then I'm against that. |
No. They went all in on him. No mistake about that.
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pio2u
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheLakerWay wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheLakerWay wrote: | I think the FO made the right decisions with Zen Master & DFish, yeah.
I also think the FO was correct about Melo.
If we could have gotten Lebron I would have taken him, even though I can't stand him personally. But now he is breaking down too. |
By correct about Melo, surely you're not crediting them for not getting Melo (and his current injury-riddle state)? They went full-court to get Melo and in terms of off-season goals, they failed at that in going for him. |
Didn't Shelburne say they really weren't interested in Melo?
Either way, I'm just glad we didn't get him. So if the FO went all in on Melo, then I'm against that. |
No. They went all in on him. No mistake about that. |
Yea but I believe he may have been toying with us as a courtesy to Kobe.
With his problems & the Knicks in the midst of a 16 game losing streak I'm sure he is now having second thoughts or wondering "what if?" |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Lakers put melo to a test. To come here he would have to give up money, being the man, and the NY situation. He would have to really want it. He didn't.
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Lakers put melo to a test. To come here he would have to give up money, being the man, and the NY situation. He would have to really want it. He didn't. |
Good decision for all parties involved.
Can anyone identify any reasons why adding Melo would have made the Lakers a viable title contender, noting that there would have been little cap space for any good complimentary players - even if Pau would have stayed.
Same question can be applied to Lowry |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| mykeinla wrote: | | Oh i dont know. Did the lakers FO make the right decision with steve nash? |
It was a good decision.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Yeah, imagine:
Fisher-Kobe-Melo-LO-Gasol. WHAT?
Would have been a beauty to watch and I do think Kobe/Melo would have gotten along just fine. |
Wouldn't have been harder for Phil to deal with than Kobe/Shaq.
Considering they have a great relationship off the court as well. |
I totally understand why Mitch/FO wanted to go after Dwight (and I approved the move at the time). We just didn't know that Dwight would bolt so quickly. But yeah, fun to dream. Kobe/Melo in relative primes, oh my, with Odom/Pau providing more versatility at the big spot? |
Some of us thought that.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers2001 wrote: | This FO has screwed up so many times in the last few off seasons that i have no faith in them to get it right heading into the summer 2015.
No going after Lowery because they waited on melo and Lebron both whom had zero interest in the Lakers EVER!! You have to wonder will they screw up again this summer? |
So Lowry saying no to them on top of Melo and Lebron would have somehow made you have more faith in the FO? Okay.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Lakers put melo to a test. To come here he would have to give up money, being the man, and the NY situation. He would have to really want it. He didn't. |
I do believe that Melo saying no did convince the FO that he wasn't worth the pursuit.
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