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ROTL
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 Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:38 pm Post subject: How much better would Kobe look if the refs didn't abuse him? |
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| And he was as protected as Jordan/Wade/Harden/Lebron? Not only is he not as protected as them but he is allowed to be blatantly fouled with no call. So it's a double killer to his numbers. If he got the ref treatment other stars get, I don't think there would be any doubt he was the GOAT. As it stands he's top 5 despite playing against the other team and the refs most of his career. |
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non-player zealot
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22
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Agreed |
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Vixen
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| He already averages more free throws per shot attempt then Jordan, despite being much more of a jump shooter and having taken over one thousand more three point shots. He gets his calls, just like every superstar has, and some calls are missed. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | :yawn: |
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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astrallionheart
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Refs can't will Kobe's 3s and long 2s in the basket, on which he is shooting 32% right now. On those same shots Dirk for example is shooting nearly 45% on a similar volume. |
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ROTL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe gets blatantly bumped while driving...no call. Lebron and Irving getting that call all game... |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Another one of those "the whole world is against the Lakers" threads |
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ROTL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow. Kobe almost won the game tonight despite playing 1 against 27. He almost beat the Cavs, the refs, his POS teammates and his moron coach..at the age of 36, 20 years in the league, coming off two major injuries. GOAT! |
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Title should be, "How much better would Kobe look if his coach didn't abuse him?" |
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kobeandgary
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| i don't really remember any missed calls on kobe, but Lebron as usual is allowed to take extra steps and bulldoze over people, not to mention taking step back shots in the lane and receiving mystery whistles in his favor. While Lin made a good move to the basket that should have been an obvious blocking call and was called a charge, oh well tho it is what it is. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Vixen wrote: | | He already averages more free throws per shot attempt then Jordan, despite being much more of a jump shooter and having taken over one thousand more three point shots. He gets his calls, just like every superstar has, and some calls are missed. |
That argument only works if you assume that MJ and Kobe are equally as skilled. The fact is that Kobe has been a far more skilled player throughout his career and just to make games competitive, the league refs operated under a sort of Anti-Jordan Rules called the Kobe rules. For a few years, he was fouled on virtually every single possession but wasn't given the call because it would have been like watching Barry Bonds walked 250 times a season. The league changed the rules on what you could do to perimeter players and then allowed Kobe to be treated as if it were the mid 80's.
It's definitely cost Kobe points and FG% points.
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| ROTL wrote: | | Wow. Kobe almost won the game tonight despite playing 1 against 27. He almost beat the Cavs, the refs, his POS teammates and his moron coach..at the age of 36, 20 years in the league, coming off two major injuries. GOAT! |
 ......True!
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Come on, man. If you're going to be a pro-Kobe mythologist, at least be creative. The whole "refs hate Kobe" thing is an eye roller for anyone other than the true believers. To everyone else, you just sound silly. Besides, it's just . . . old.
Here are some suggestions for new, fresh material:
Aliens are beaming waves into people's heads to make them think that MJ/Lebron/Magic/whoever was better than Kobe.
MJ/Lebron/Magic/whoever is an alien-human hybrid. Kobe is a genuine human being.
Kobe is an alien-human hybrid. This is why he is superior, and it is also why ESPN, the refs, David Stern, and Fox Mulder are out to discredit him.
The pro-Jordan Eastern media rigs the stats. Kobe actually made a lot more shots than what you see in the box scores.
Pro-Jordan thugs messed up Kobe's fingers, knees, and Achilles. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Come on, man. If you're going to be a pro-Kobe mythologist, at least be creative. The whole "refs hate Kobe" thing is an eye roller for anyone other than the true believers. To everyone else, you just sound silly. Besides, it's just . . . old.
Here are some suggestions for new, fresh material:
Aliens are beaming waves into people's heads to make them think that MJ/Lebron/Magic/whoever was better than Kobe.
MJ/Lebron/Magic/whoever is an alien-human hybrid. Kobe is a genuine human being.
Kobe is an alien-human hybrid. This is why he is superior, and it is also why ESPN, the refs, David Stern, and Fox Mulder are out to discredit him.
The pro-Jordan Eastern media rigs the stats. Kobe actually made a lot more shots than what you see in the box scores.
Pro-Jordan thugs messed up Kobe's fingers, knees, and Achilles. |
Discounting opinion that goes against narrative as told by powerful people is easy. I don't really care who or how many roll eyes, or how long the insults to Justice in the form of NBA refs has been going on, I'm good with my opinion on the subject.
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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ppineda
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Vixen wrote: | | He already averages more free throws per shot attempt then Jordan, despite being much more of a jump shooter and having taken over one thousand more three point shots. He gets his calls, just like every superstar has, and some calls are missed. |
That argument only works if you assume that MJ and Kobe are equally as skilled. The fact is that Kobe has been a far more skilled player throughout his career and just to make games competitive, the league refs operated under a sort of Anti-Jordan Rules called the Kobe rules. For a few years, he was fouled on virtually every single possession but wasn't given the call because it would have been like watching Barry Bonds walked 250 times a season. The league changed the rules on what you could do to perimeter players and then allowed Kobe to be treated as if it were the mid 80's.
It's definitely cost Kobe points and FG% points. |
Equally as skilled as Jordan?! Jordan shot a MUCH better percentage and Kobe went to the line A TON and you are complaining he needed more? Kobe plays in a world without hand checking, if MJ had that he would have dropped 50 a night when he played. Shaq was fouled on almost every possesion, and didn't get calls. Kobe was able to elbow Bibby in the face and get the foul called on Bibby. Your comparison is laughable.
There are no Kobe rules, other than Kobe parades to the free throw line, but do you know what the "Jordan Rules" were? The Pistons did that to play 4 or 5 on 1 and physically beat him up every play to try and stop him. Kobe had Shaq who always needed a double team. Never had to deal with a situation like that and then couldn't do anything without a HOF big man. After these last two seasons, no one will be having Kobe as GOAT... He is easily top 10 all time. I have Kobe 6 or 7th best ever to play the game. But he's not close to MJ... Sorry. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Vixen wrote: | | He already averages more free throws per shot attempt then Jordan, despite being much more of a jump shooter and having taken over one thousand more three point shots. He gets his calls, just like every superstar has, and some calls are missed. |
That argument only works if you assume that MJ and Kobe are equally as skilled. The fact is that Kobe has been a far more skilled player throughout his career and just to make games competitive, the league refs operated under a sort of Anti-Jordan Rules called the Kobe rules. For a few years, he was fouled on virtually every single possession but wasn't given the call because it would have been like watching Barry Bonds walked 250 times a season. The league changed the rules on what you could do to perimeter players and then allowed Kobe to be treated as if it were the mid 80's.
It's definitely cost Kobe points and FG% points. |
This is an opinion, not a fact. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Jordan had a smaller toolkit than Kobe, just as Shaq had a smaller toolkit than a bunch of other elite all time bigs. Because both had such elite physical gifts that they developed around. Mj shot a higher percentage on less overall moves because he could.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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It is actually a testament to Kobe that he developed all the other stuff to help close the gap, but the gap is there, and there's no purpose in dogging mj for not widening the net beyond what he needed, any more than there is for dogging Shaq for not developing an 18 foot jumper. Didn't need it, and you wouldn't want him doing that when he does other things so unstoppably.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Discounting opinion that goes against narrative as told by powerful people is easy. I don't really care who or how many roll eyes, or how long the insults to Justice in the form of NBA refs has been going on, I'm good with my opinion on the subject. |
That's fine with me. It speaks volumes about the wasteland of this season that we're even having this discussion again. |
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Gwyn
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Another one of those "the whole world is against the Lakers" threads |
So don't read them then.
_________________
Lakers win record when Kobe goes for 40+ points
God bless Kobe Bean Bryant and Gianna Maria Onore Bryant. |
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LuciusAllen
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Come on, man. If you're going to be a pro-Kobe mythologist, at least be creative. The whole "refs hate Kobe" thing is an eye roller for anyone other than the true believers. To everyone else, you just sound silly. Besides, it's just . . . old.
Here are some suggestions for new, fresh material:
Aliens are beaming waves into people's heads to make them think that MJ/Lebron/Magic/whoever was better than Kobe.
MJ/Lebron/Magic/whoever is an alien-human hybrid. Kobe is a genuine human being.
Kobe is an alien-human hybrid. This is why he is superior, and it is also why ESPN, the refs, David Stern, and Fox Mulder are out to discredit him.
The pro-Jordan Eastern media rigs the stats. Kobe actually made a lot more shots than what you see in the box scores.
Pro-Jordan thugs messed up Kobe's fingers, knees, and Achilles. |
Discounting opinion that goes against narrative as told by powerful people is easy. I don't really care who or how many roll eyes, or how long the insults to Justice in the form of NBA refs has been going on, I'm good with my opinion on the subject. |
The irony of your opinion, of course, is that Kobe himself would probably disagree with you.
| Quote: | | "Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket because you can't touch anybody," he said. "Back then, guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change directions and post up. You had to have midrange game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you'd get knocked [flat]. Playing the game back then required much more skill." |
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20140121-story.html
I think your argument would be that the refs hold Kobe to the old-school standard and everyone else to a different, more finesse-y standard. If that's true, Kobe's response was to develop the kinds of skills to adjust to that contact, rather than complain. And if he ain't complaining, I ain't complaining. |
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Laker Intervention
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Jordan had a smaller toolkit than Kobe, just as Shaq had a smaller toolkit than a bunch of other elite all time bigs. Because both had such elite physical gifts that they developed around. Mj shot a higher percentage on less overall moves because he could. |
Post of the Thread. |
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Gwyn
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| LuciusAllen wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Come on, man. If you're going to be a pro-Kobe mythologist, at least be creative. The whole "refs hate Kobe" thing is an eye roller for anyone other than the true believers. To everyone else, you just sound silly. Besides, it's just . . . old.
Here are some suggestions for new, fresh material:
Aliens are beaming waves into people's heads to make them think that MJ/Lebron/Magic/whoever was better than Kobe.
MJ/Lebron/Magic/whoever is an alien-human hybrid. Kobe is a genuine human being.
Kobe is an alien-human hybrid. This is why he is superior, and it is also why ESPN, the refs, David Stern, and Fox Mulder are out to discredit him.
The pro-Jordan Eastern media rigs the stats. Kobe actually made a lot more shots than what you see in the box scores.
Pro-Jordan thugs messed up Kobe's fingers, knees, and Achilles. |
Discounting opinion that goes against narrative as told by powerful people is easy. I don't really care who or how many roll eyes, or how long the insults to Justice in the form of NBA refs has been going on, I'm good with my opinion on the subject. |
The irony of your opinion, of course, is that Kobe himself would probably disagree with you.
| Quote: | | "Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket because you can't touch anybody," he said. "Back then, guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change directions and post up. You had to have midrange game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you'd get knocked [flat]. Playing the game back then required much more skill." |
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20140121-story.html
I think your argument would be that the refs hold Kobe to the old-school standard and everyone else to a different, more finesse-y standard. If that's true, Kobe's response was to develop the kinds of skills to adjust to that contact, rather than complain. And if he ain't complaining, I ain't complaining. |
He did work around that (bleep). There still shouldn't be a different standard for him than the rest.
_________________
Lakers win record when Kobe goes for 40+ points
God bless Kobe Bean Bryant and Gianna Maria Onore Bryant. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| You could turn it around and say Kobe's inability to get the refs to like him the same way they like MJ, Harden, and every other player to ever play in the NBA, keeps him short of GOAT status. |
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