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Klone_dd Star Player
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 7330
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:15 am Post subject: |
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DancingBarry wrote: | razor wrote: | Klone_dd wrote: | Thanks DB i'm missing more games than I'm watching these days |
So everyone is trying to pin this one on Lin. I'm no fan of Lin at all, but what kind of consistency do you expect from an ever changing lineup?
The Kobe effect once again, guess he couldn't be bothered to play in a game without Klove's butt to slap. Hating or loving Kobe doesn't mean you're not a Laker fan, tell it like it is...what a sad freakin mess. |
What just happened here? |
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bws94 Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014 Posts: 1563
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:16 am Post subject: |
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trunkz08 wrote: | Nobody played well tonight. No ball movement, no screens, no cuts. Everyone throwing stupid passes. If you watch Utah play, they have less talent than the lakers but move the ball so well. It's really not that hard to make a simple pass to the open man. Why's it so hard for these Lakers to make a simple pass?? Is it me or are we just running the same plays over and over. It's so predictable. |
Hayward is a good player. Take Kobe off of the court and Hayward is the best player. Which is what happened. And they played good team ball.
That is unlike the Lakers who played flat, uninspired, disorganized, sloppy, every man for himself bad basketball yesterday. Lin wasn't good. Hill and Young at least shot well. Wes disappeared again. Just, what DB said. |
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Quartz888 Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jun 2013 Posts: 192
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:31 am Post subject: |
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razor wrote: | Klone_dd wrote: | Thanks DB i'm missing more games than I'm watching these days |
So everyone is trying to pin this one on Lin. I'm no fan of Lin at all, but what kind of consistency do you expect from an ever changing lineup?
The Kobe effect once again, guess he couldn't be bothered to play in a game without Klove's butt to slap. Hating or loving Kobe doesn't mean you're not a Laker fan, tell it like it is...what a sad freakin mess. |
Random post...mentioning Lin out of nowhere. That's what haters do. Lol. Smh. |
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Richmond Starting Rotation
Joined: 03 Oct 2014 Posts: 169
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: |
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One thing I've noticed lately is that we just don't move the ball around. ALL of the Lakers are guilty of holding the ball too long. Boozer missed a few opportunities to get the ball to a man with a better shot and Ellington...not sure what to say there. Swaggy...great if he's hitting shots but this whole take 3-4 seconds to dribble around and then jack up a shot thing is an offense killer. Sure he was hitting them yesterday but imagine how effective he'd be if he'd wait for an open look. Very disappointed in Lin...he should've taken control and didn't...He took zero shots in the 1st qtr. Maybe he IS playing a little soft.
Sorry if I'm rambling..disappointed in yesterday's loss... |
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PPP Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Jul 2014 Posts: 124
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | This was basically a contest between a modern NBA pick and roll offense and a throwback isolation offense. Even though the Lakers shot better individually and got to the foul line, their quality of shots was much worse, and even their freethrows were off of tough contested jumpers. The offense was easily countered by denying the first option, which resulted in a lot of late shot clock situations and turnovers. It also had players playing to their weaknesses- Wes Johnson trying to facilitate off the dribble, Jordan Hill going one on one (though he killed it this game, he also had 4 TOs), Lin and Clarkson trying to iso late in the shot clock. If the Jazz weren't shooting poorly on open shots, they would have blown the game wide open.
Some stats-
FGs made at the basket:
Jazz 18
Lakers 8
3 pointers made:
Jazz 12 (100% assisted)
Lakers 3 (33% assisted)
Corner 3 pointers made:
Jazz 6 (15 attempted)
Lakers 0 (0 attempted)
Mid range jumpers made:
Jazz 6
Lakers 20
Passes:
Jazz 368
Lakers 227
Assists:
Jazz 24
Lakers 7
Secondary assists:
Jazz 5
Lakers 0
Assist percentage:
Jazz 66.7%
Lakers 22.6%
Uncontested field goal attempts:
Jazz 39
Lakers 20 |
3p attempt
Jazz 31
Lakers 7 |
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koen Sixth Man
Joined: 11 Nov 2014 Posts: 87
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:58 am Post subject: |
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BS offense: iso's resulting in long 2's
BS defense: run around a lot and give up open 3's and lay-up's |
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bws94 Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014 Posts: 1563
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Byron needs to cease with the talk of "softness" and his players and learn how to coach. By that I mean, alter some of his game plans, both offensively and defensively to whoever is on the court. Have some alternatives to the usual things we see. Don't treat every player the same and expect the same out of them. Motivation techniques should be different for Clarkson, Lin and Wesley than for Kobe, Price and Davis.
I don't see a very well prepared team in most games and although this isn't the coach P&M thread, he does have his game assessment here and this game like so many others features starters who come out flat and disorganized. That's on him in my opinion. It doesn't matter the personnel in the starting unit, they too often come out flat, disorganized, and rarely put the petal to the metal and put themselves in a position where the opponents have to fight back. If it doesn't happen in the first half, and the game is close, then there's a breakdown in the 3rd or early 4th like yesterday's game. |
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bws94 Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014 Posts: 1563
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Richmond wrote: | One thing I've noticed lately is that we just don't move the ball around. ALL of the Lakers are guilty of holding the ball too long. Boozer missed a few opportunities to get the ball to a man with a better shot and Ellington...not sure what to say there. Swaggy...great if he's hitting shots but this whole take 3-4 seconds to dribble around and then jack up a shot thing is an offense killer. Sure he was hitting them yesterday but imagine how effective he'd be if he'd wait for an open look. Very disappointed in Lin...he should've taken control and didn't...He took zero shots in the 1st qtr. Maybe he IS playing a little soft.
Sorry if I'm rambling..disappointed in yesterday's loss... |
Yep. I think Lin's approach should be as a scoring PG. Go in there and score, that opens up him setting up others. He has his best games when he does that. He didn't seem to have his perimeter shot last night but he needs to learn how to use floaters, or he can use that spin/turaround semi-fade shot more that he showed yesterday. Score the ball, then pass. That works better for him. |
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jlinfan Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jul 2014 Posts: 720
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | This was basically a contest between a modern NBA pick and roll offense and a throwback isolation offense. Even though the Lakers shot better individually and got to the foul line, their quality of shots was much worse, and even their freethrows were off of tough contested jumpers. The offense was easily countered by denying the first option, which resulted in a lot of late shot clock situations and turnovers. It also had players playing to their weaknesses- Wes Johnson trying to facilitate off the dribble, Jordan Hill going one on one (though he killed it this game, he also had 4 TOs), Lin and Clarkson trying to iso late in the shot clock. If the Jazz weren't shooting poorly on open shots, they would have blown the game wide open.
Some stats-
FGs made at the basket:
Jazz 18
Lakers 8
3 pointers made:
Jazz 12 (100% assisted)
Lakers 3 (33% assisted)
Corner 3 pointers made:
Jazz 6 (15 attempted)
Lakers 0 (0 attempted)
Mid range jumpers made:
Jazz 6
Lakers 20
Passes:
Jazz 368
Lakers 227
Assists:
Jazz 24
Lakers 7
Secondary assists:
Jazz 5
Lakers 0
Assist percentage:
Jazz 66.7%
Lakers 22.6%
Uncontested field goal attempts:
Jazz 39
Lakers 20 |
Thanks DB and fiendishoc.
ALWAYS LOVE THIS THREAD ! |
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Shaber Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 3731 Location: The other side
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: |
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JLinfanJoe wrote: |
Perhaps he needs to go and coach Lebron and the Cavaliers, then we will all see what a great coach Byron Scott truly is?
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Could we swap coaches? _________________ .
Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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ClutchJedi Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Nov 2014 Posts: 70
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:27 am Post subject: |
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s_habe wrote: | JLinfanJoe wrote: |
Perhaps he needs to go and coach Lebron and the Cavaliers, then we will all see what a great coach Byron Scott truly is?
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Could we swap coaches? | give me d'antoni back! at least he can make the games exciting and dynamic with the players we have! |
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madddogg Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 182
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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ClutchJedi wrote: | s_habe wrote: | JLinfanJoe wrote: |
Perhaps he needs to go and coach Lebron and the Cavaliers, then we will all see what a great coach Byron Scott truly is?
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Could we swap coaches? | give me d'antoni back! at least he can make the games exciting and dynamic with the players we have! |
I hate to agree with you on this one, but bring back D'antoni. At least offensively the games were better to watch, way more free flowing offense. |
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purple.23 Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Oct 2014 Posts: 592
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:27 am Post subject: |
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One thing about MDA's offense is spacing. I notice that this team offense is just a clutter in the middle - probably because this stupid Prineston thing bigs at the elbows. Absolutely no spacing at all, making the opponents so much easier to defend. |
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TTNN4 Sixth Man
Joined: 21 Jul 2014 Posts: 42
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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For this game, the team have:
1) only 65 FGA which is the lowest in this season so far.
2) 7 3pt FGA is the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit attempts, even less than games when Scott was saying "3 don't won championships" time.
3) 7 assist also the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit assist.
4) 86.7 pace is the second lowest in this season.
5) 19 TO is the second highest game in this season
overall, very slow game... |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6121
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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TTNN4 wrote: | For this game, the team have:
1) only 65 FGA which is the lowest in this season so far.
2) 7 3pt FGA is the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit attempts, even less than games when Scott was saying "3 don't won championships" time.
3) 7 assist also the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit assist.
4) 86.7 pace is the second lowest in this season.
5) 19 TO is the second highest game in this season
overall, very slow game... | Inefficient and sloppy ball-handling and production. Which player had the highest usage rate during that game. |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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A Mad Chinaman wrote: | TTNN4 wrote: | For this game, the team have:
1) only 65 FGA which is the lowest in this season so far.
2) 7 3pt FGA is the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit attempts, even less than games when Scott was saying "3 don't won championships" time.
3) 7 assist also the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit assist.
4) 86.7 pace is the second lowest in this season.
5) 19 TO is the second highest game in this season
overall, very slow game... | Inefficient and sloppy ball-handling and production. Which player had the highest usage rate during that game. |
Hill, then Young, then Clarkson. Then Boozer. Then Lin, then Ellington. |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6121
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:54 am Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | TTNN4 wrote: | For this game, the team have:
1) only 65 FGA which is the lowest in this season so far.
2) 7 3pt FGA is the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit attempts, even less than games when Scott was saying "3 don't won championships" time.
3) 7 assist also the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit assist.
4) 86.7 pace is the second lowest in this season.
5) 19 TO is the second highest game in this season
overall, very slow game... | Inefficient and sloppy ball-handling and production. Which player had the highest usage rate during that game. | Hill, then Young, then Clarkson. Then Boozer. Then Lin, then Ellington. | Thanks
Curious that a center (JHill) would have the highest usage rate
Young is the Black Hole that everybody knows that he will be shooting. His "assist" to Davis actually appears to be a fumble that acxidentally ended up in his hands
Clarkson was apparent as he was always trying to attack, whether in or out of control
Boozer was understandable as he was trying to score, though he was either blocked or closely guarded on most of his shots
JLin's usage rate was interesting considering that his reputation is as a ball-dominant PG
Is there a stat sheet that breaks down the "intention/purpose of a player's passes - leads to an assist (obvious), leads to a hockey assist, to a TO (obvious), pass to the post, around the perimeter, etc.?
Is there a stat sheet that compares their efficiency of their actions on one list the efficiency rate of JLin, Price, Clatkson and Kobe
• How many times they attack and beat their man
• How many times the opposing PGs attacked them and finished
• How many times their first pass is on the perimeter/around the horn
• P&R efficiencies
• Teammates' efficiency rate of the other players with the different PGs
• Efficiency rates per quarters
• Efficiency rates against opposing team's starters versus their bench
Remembering Golden Throat's detailed breakdowns in numerous categories of D12 a few years ago, one would imagine that the above-listed breakdowns are available |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:32 am Post subject: |
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A Mad Chinaman wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | TTNN4 wrote: | For this game, the team have:
1) only 65 FGA which is the lowest in this season so far.
2) 7 3pt FGA is the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit attempts, even less than games when Scott was saying "3 don't won championships" time.
3) 7 assist also the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit assist.
4) 86.7 pace is the second lowest in this season.
5) 19 TO is the second highest game in this season
overall, very slow game... | Inefficient and sloppy ball-handling and production. Which player had the highest usage rate during that game. | Hill, then Young, then Clarkson. Then Boozer. Then Lin, then Ellington. | Thanks
Curious that a center (JHill) would have the highest usage rate
Young is the Black Hole that everybody knows that he will be shooting. His "assist" to Davis actually appears to be a fumble that acxidentally ended up in his hands
Clarkson was apparent as he was always trying to attack, whether in or out of control
Boozer was understandable as he was trying to score, though he was either blocked or closely guarded on most of his shots
JLin's usage rate was interesting considering that his reputation is as a ball-dominant PG
Is there a stat sheet that breaks down the "intention/purpose of a player's passes - leads to an assist (obvious), leads to a hockey assist, to a TO (obvious), pass to the post, around the perimeter, etc.?
Is there a stat sheet that compares their efficiency of their actions on one list the efficiency rate of JLin, Price, Clatkson and Kobe
• How many times they attack and beat their man
• How many times the opposing PGs attacked them and finished
• How many times their first pass is on the perimeter/around the horn
• P&R efficiencies
• Teammates' efficiency rate of the other players with the different PGs
• Efficiency rates per quarters
• Efficiency rates against opposing team's starters versus their bench
Remembering Golden Throat's detailed breakdowns in numerous categories of D12 a few years ago, one would imagine that the above-listed breakdowns are available |
Looking at the player tracking and advanced box score is probably the easiest thing:
http://stats.nba.com/game/#!/0021400597/playertracking/
There are services that have more detailed breakdowns and stats but those are for professional subscribers only. NBA.com stats is an awesome resource though. You can get the opponent shooting percentages and filter by quarters there there. |
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maomao Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jan 2015 Posts: 841
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: |
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A Mad Chinaman wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | TTNN4 wrote: | For this game, the team have:
1) only 65 FGA which is the lowest in this season so far.
2) 7 3pt FGA is the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit attempts, even less than games when Scott was saying "3 don't won championships" time.
3) 7 assist also the lowest and the only game that we have less than double digit assist.
4) 86.7 pace is the second lowest in this season.
5) 19 TO is the second highest game in this season
overall, very slow game... | Inefficient and sloppy ball-handling and production. Which player had the highest usage rate during that game. | Hill, then Young, then Clarkson. Then Boozer. Then Lin, then Ellington. | Thanks
Curious that a center (JHill) would have the highest usage rate
Young is the Black Hole that everybody knows that he will be shooting. His "assist" to Davis actually appears to be a fumble that acxidentally ended up in his hands
Clarkson was apparent as he was always trying to attack, whether in or out of control
Boozer was understandable as he was trying to score, though he was either blocked or closely guarded on most of his shots
JLin's usage rate was interesting considering that his reputation is as a ball-dominant PG
Is there a stat sheet that breaks down the "intention/purpose of a player's passes - leads to an assist (obvious), leads to a hockey assist, to a TO (obvious), pass to the post, around the perimeter, etc.?
Is there a stat sheet that compares their efficiency of their actions on one list the efficiency rate of JLin, Price, Clatkson and Kobe
• How many times they attack and beat their man
• How many times the opposing PGs attacked them and finished
• How many times their first pass is on the perimeter/around the horn
• P&R efficiencies
• Teammates' efficiency rate of the other players with the different PGs
• Efficiency rates per quarters
• Efficiency rates against opposing team's starters versus their bench
Remembering Golden Throat's detailed breakdowns in numerous categories of D12 a few years ago, one would imagine that the above-listed breakdowns are available |
Byron called Lin out for being ball dominant earlier in the season. That's when he has 18/10 through 3 quarters and got benched.
In an interview Lin said his usage rate is the lowest in his career.
reputation? Lol |
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bws94 Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014 Posts: 1563
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe, Young, Lin all are playing below their career norms. Is it them or Scott? I say Scott. |
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summerly Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jul 2014 Posts: 239
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Missed the game and thanks DB for the report
7 assists is a joke. What kind of offense they were running?
I just love BS's professional sport coaching philosophy. Ellington was back to the starting lineup after few games DNP. What is his role on the team? You will never know what BS is thinking.
So pathetic to see Lin was failed to show up with Price and Kobe out.
Jump on the tank bandwagon today!
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Slicer Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Posts: 66
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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This Laker offense is completely and utterly putrid. While overall player talent is lacking, it's the coaching staff responsibility to at least implement a system that takes advantage of what few strengths this current roster has. It's unreasonable to blame any single player (as much as some unfair jackasses are doing their best to find scapegoats), until some semblance of scheme is put into place on both offense and defense. Once a scheme is in place THEN you assign blame on individuals for getting lost and not entering their sets on offense. Or on defense, not rotating to the correct man when a defender gets beat. THAT's when you know who's really screwing things up and you can talk to them and TEACH them how to fix it OR ELSE.
On defense getting beat individually IS NOT A MAIN CAUSE FOR BLAME, HOWEVER, its how the team reacts to a breakdown and how they rotate to minimize damage. On offense, THERE MUST BE BALL MOVEMENT!!! Unless you have a transcendent superstar who can will your team to victory. Sadly we dont have one anymore and need to learn to deal with it.
However since we're now crossing into blatant tanking territory, I can see why the coaching staff is getting lazy about going through this process, teaching people is a pain in the ass. However it's actually the MORE critical you teach people whatever you schemes you want to run since you can use REAL actual games to test not only the capabilities of your current players (who you may or may not resign at the end of the season), but also see whether the schemes you ARE preaching actually work or not, or maybe just need some fine tuning.
Furthermore this is a lost season needed as a testbed to mine the DLeauge and the end of our roster for talent. The greatest travesty of playing Price so many minutes isn't how unfair it is to Lin (which it is, to be frank), but not TRULY seeing if Lin is worth keeping and seeing where Clarkson is at in his current development to figure out what he needs to work on to be a better Laker in the future.
Tarik Black was an excellent pick up supplanting Sacre, who has clearly proven he doesnt have enough talent to bother to develop. Sacre was given a fair shake and a decent amount of PT to show what he's got and all he did with it was learn from Kobe to shoot turn around contested jumpers. Clarkson, Lin, Ellington, Davis, Hill, and Wes all need heavy mins to test/develop while guys like Boozer and Price are old and tapped out and should be summarily traded/benched. Young *shakes head* shouldn't be allowed to do what he's currently doing as it's destroying ball movement or whatever potential scheme the coach has for offense, instead one should incorporate his ability as an option within the offense instead of THE option once he touches the ball.
We're not here to win games anymore, so teach the young pups and ride or die with them. TEACH them a proper scheme, TEST them to see who's able to follow them, KEEP the ones who pick things up as continuity is important as well.
Kobe can actually leave a MAJOR positive mark on his legacy if he can help teach these young guys how to be proper ball players. (bleep) that stupid noise about being "soft", as being "tough" without purpose is plain stunted. I want guys who play hard, smart, and follow the gameplan no matter their talent level. If we build a core of guys like that, it'll make developing chemistry of the roster helluva lot easier as the current batch of guys know what their strengths and weaknesses are and onoce FA superstars are in place, we can then use the ones that fit with them. Instead of building a whole new bench out of scratch and wasting valuable time teaching EVERYONE the playbook.
Byron Scott has so far failed utterly in what I feel a coach should be doing for his team (which in this case is tank/develop). If he continues this boneheadedness after the trade deadline then the FO is truly stunted for not getting on his ass. After the deadline we should not have Hill, Lin, Davis, or Price as they should be traded for maximum value. If we were to keep any of them that means we should be developing them to the hilt to see if they're worth retaining after the season (well except for Price, Boozer is a definite goner unless he returns for the min). If Scott is just waiting for the trade deadline to pass before he decides to start properly coaching (since he knows what he has on the roster til the end of the year), i'll be annoyed but satisfied that he knows what he needs to do to rebuild a team.
Having super star talent is nice, but what truly show your coaching colors is how you get a bunch of misfits and castoffs to play together to the best of their abilities (whether they win or lose isn't important). PJax is one of if not the best coach imo not because he's got 11 rings, but how he got the Smush, Walton, LOdom, Kwame, and Kobe era Lakers into playoffs RUNNING A SYSTEM, helping those scrubs post career highs (then getting paid and fading to obscurity) and once he got real talent on the team, didn't miss a beat into integrating them and started dominating.
Mark my words, PJax is off to a horrendous start in NY inheriting that poo poo platter roster. But he'll get that (bleep) sorted out (especially when Bargnani and Amare's contracts are gone), get a system in place and develop a roster to utilize it. Then when they finally strike gold in FA, integrate those FAs with their developed young role players and start contending in the East.
The Lakers truly screwed the pooch in not getting PJax from a business standpoint. Jerry couldn't bear effectively labeling his eldest as a loser and hand over the Buss legacy to Jeanie who will effectively hand it over to PJax as part of her dowry for finally getting a ring on her finger. Sadly in the Game of Thrones its the small folk (fans) who suffer |
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