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ChefLinda
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 Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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As both a Laker fan and a Patriot fan, I can only say I feel the same way about Roger Goodell that I felt about David Stern.
And yes, the vast majority of the country hates both teams primarily because of their successes. The current "scandal" is just an excuse to vent the hate that was already there. It also makes it more convenient for the league to drop the over-the-top sledge hammer because outside of New England, there is absolutely no backlash for Goodell.
If they can prove Brady did what they say he did, then let them. I suspect they can't and that the suspension will eventually be dialed back.
All I can say to the rest of the league is be careful what you wish for. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Just because two things share one common element does not mean they are comparable.
Sure, I don't dispute that the desire to appease the owners of less successful franchises played a role in both the Brady suspension and the Lakers having their trade vetoed. But even that connection is not fully accurate. Deflategate was purely media driven. If there had not been so much press going into the NFL's begets couple of weeks, that whole situation likely just fades away and there is no suspension. So to say it was purely a move to satisfy ownership is not entirely true. The opposite is true of the Lakers situation. The press really had no issue with the CP3 trade - and media coverage was really along the lines of what a big trade it was and the media was as shocked as fans when the trade got vetoed. The action against the Lakers was SOLELY a move to appease owners of lesser franchises. It was in no way a reaction to what the media was saying or calling for.
Throw in the facts that the Lakers situation involved no accusations of wrong doing and that the action taken against the Lakers was far more damaging than a 4 game suspension is for the Patriots, and any similarity between the two is really quite small not non-existent. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/12/brady-will-use-kessler-for-appeal-of-suspension/
| Quote: | Brady will use Kessler for appeal of suspension
Patriots quarterback Tom Brady should have used the NFL Players Association in connection with the Ted Wells report. Brady didn’t. But he apparently won’t make the same mistake twice.
Per Adam Schefter of ESPN (via Phil Perry of CSN New England), Brady has added Jeffrey Kessler to the legal team that will handle the appeal. And Brady would be wise to let Kessler handle the whole thing, with agent/lawyer Don Yee taking a seat and watching.
It still would have been better for Brady to seek — and to implement — Kessler’s advice from the get go. Kessler would have nudged Brady in directions that would have established a better foundation for success on appeal or in court.
Kessler also may have been able to cajole Brady into accepting the league’s offer to allow Brady’s legal team to lift from his phone and email account any messages that may be relevant to the investigation, without supervision or involvement of the NFL.
Indeed, it’s possible that Yee simply wasn’t able to talk sense into Brady. Kessler, fully able to see how refusal to fully cooperate may have undermined Brady’s interests, may have been far more persuasive — and ultimately far more effective. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Also, the CP3 veto was executed by the ownership of the Hornets team. An owner has the right to veto any trade his management team wants to pursue. Yes it was a gray area because ownership was the NBA...
... but I don't believe the NBA could or would have vetoed a trade between any two teams so long as it within the CBA rules. |
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DaMuleRules
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rwongega
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| My bet is that the suspension will be reduced or even overturned. The court of law has a higher standard of proof than the NFL. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | My bet is that the suspension will be reduced or even overturned. The court of law has a higher standard of proof than the NFL. |
Yep. That's a certainty. It's perfect situation for the NFL - appear to be taking a tough stand and then have the punishment reduced on appeal. |
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Krispy Kreme
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:04 am Post subject: |
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interesting how wells said to have tom brady's agent look through text messages (on his own time), and report back to wells on any relevant texts pertaining to the investigation. and brady/his agent still refused to do that.
wells was OK with not having brady's phone in his possession.
i mean come on... why refuse that? you are privately looking through any potential text messages and then reporting it to an investigator. i'd love an answer on why this was refused by brady. guy is guilty as sin.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Tom Brady turned down Obama's White House invite
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| Quote: | | If you’re on the right, Brady obviously dislikes the president and this is a power move, a la Tim Thomas, the Boston Bruins goaltender who once declined his invite and said it was because he didn’t like Obama. |
I think Tom calls himself a Independent.
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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The Patriots cheated. 13 out of 14 balls deflated. Maybe it didn't give them a substantially remarkable advantage, but that is irrelevant. They still committed an infraction that goes agains the integrity of the game and tarnishes its image. I don't know why people think the Patriots should be above the league and not pay the price. Add to the fact that they have a substantial track record of classlessness and cheating allegations (*asterisks or whatever you want to call them), I actually think the commissioner came down light on them. 4 games is a slap on the wrist. And then to hear Brady's daddy and agent come out with the "Sting Op" bull (bleep),  what a joke. Just take your suspension and shut up. I for one am tired of the Patriots thinking they can bend the rules and not be called out for it. I expected more, 4 games is nothing. |
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pmacla
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | As both a Laker fan and a Patriot fan, I can only say I feel the same way about Roger Goodell that I felt about David Stern.
And yes, the vast majority of the country hates both teams primarily because of their successes. The current "scandal" is just an excuse to vent the hate that was already there. It also makes it more convenient for the league to drop the over-the-top sledge hammer because outside of New England, there is absolutely no backlash for Goodell.
If they can prove Brady did what they say he did, then let them. I suspect they can't and that the suspension will eventually be dialed back.
All I can say to the rest of the league is be careful what you wish for. |
No offense but I can never understand how any Laker fan can be a fan of anything Boston |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | | The Patriots cheated. 13 out of 14 balls deflated. Maybe it didn't give them a substantially remarkable advantage, but that is irrelevant. They still committed an infraction that goes agains the integrity of the game and tarnishes its image. I don't know why people think the Patriots should be above the league and not pay the price. Add to the fact that they have a substantial track record of classlessness and cheating allegations (*asterisks or whatever you want to call them), I actually think the commissioner came down light on them. 4 games is a slap on the wrist. And then to hear Brady's daddy and agent come out with the "Sting Op" bull (bleep), what a joke. Just take your suspension and shut up. I for one am tired of the Patriots thinking they can bend the rules and not be called out for it. I expected more, 4 games is nothing. |
So why have they been called out on this rule violation but other teams haven't? It has to be a bias against the Pats, especially when you get a Packer QB along with several other ex-NFL QBs publicly saying they do the same thing.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| pmacla wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | As both a Laker fan and a Patriot fan, I can only say I feel the same way about Roger Goodell that I felt about David Stern.
And yes, the vast majority of the country hates both teams primarily because of their successes. The current "scandal" is just an excuse to vent the hate that was already there. It also makes it more convenient for the league to drop the over-the-top sledge hammer because outside of New England, there is absolutely no backlash for Goodell.
If they can prove Brady did what they say he did, then let them. I suspect they can't and that the suspension will eventually be dialed back.
All I can say to the rest of the league is be careful what you wish for. |
No offense but I can never understand how any Laker fan can be a fan of anything Boston |
Even Boston cream pies? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | The Patriots cheated. 13 out of 14 balls deflated. Maybe it didn't give them a substantially remarkable advantage, but that is irrelevant. They still committed an infraction that goes agains the integrity of the game and tarnishes its image. I don't know why people think the Patriots should be above the league and not pay the price. Add to the fact that they have a substantial track record of classlessness and cheating allegations (*asterisks or whatever you want to call them), I actually think the commissioner came down light on them. 4 games is a slap on the wrist. And then to hear Brady's daddy and agent come out with the "Sting Op" bull (bleep), what a joke. Just take your suspension and shut up. I for one am tired of the Patriots thinking they can bend the rules and not be called out for it. I expected more, 4 games is nothing. |
So why have they been called out on this rule violation but other teams haven't? It has to be a bias against the Pats, especially when you get a Packer QB along with several other ex-NFL QBs publicly saying they do the same thing. |
Because right now, the most important thing is that someone pays. We're in a "we want justice" era. And the NFL is giving us that justice via the Pats.
I haven't seen any report that concluded that Tom Brady actually ordered or personally deflated the balls himself. Only, that it is "more likely than not" that Brady was "generally aware". So to me, suspending someone for 25% of a season for being most likely generally aware seems excessive.
What's next? Some catcher in baseball gets suspended for 40 games because he was more likely generally aware that a pitcher was using pine tar? |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | The Patriots cheated. 13 out of 14 balls deflated. Maybe it didn't give them a substantially remarkable advantage, but that is irrelevant. They still committed an infraction that goes agains the integrity of the game and tarnishes its image. I don't know why people think the Patriots should be above the league and not pay the price. Add to the fact that they have a substantial track record of classlessness and cheating allegations (*asterisks or whatever you want to call them), I actually think the commissioner came down light on them. 4 games is a slap on the wrist. And then to hear Brady's daddy and agent come out with the "Sting Op" bull (bleep), what a joke. Just take your suspension and shut up. I for one am tired of the Patriots thinking they can bend the rules and not be called out for it. I expected more, 4 games is nothing. |
So why have they been called out on this rule violation but other teams haven't? It has to be a bias against the Pats, especially when you get a Packer QB along with several other ex-NFL QBs publicly saying they do the same thing. |
I thought Rodgers said he likes his footballs over-inflated because it suits his grip? and that there should be a minimum but not a maximum for air pressure? |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | The Patriots cheated. 13 out of 14 balls deflated. Maybe it didn't give them a substantially remarkable advantage, but that is irrelevant. They still committed an infraction that goes agains the integrity of the game and tarnishes its image. I don't know why people think the Patriots should be above the league and not pay the price. Add to the fact that they have a substantial track record of classlessness and cheating allegations (*asterisks or whatever you want to call them), I actually think the commissioner came down light on them. 4 games is a slap on the wrist. And then to hear Brady's daddy and agent come out with the "Sting Op" bull (bleep), what a joke. Just take your suspension and shut up. I for one am tired of the Patriots thinking they can bend the rules and not be called out for it. I expected more, 4 games is nothing. |
So why have they been called out on this rule violation but other teams haven't? It has to be a bias against the Pats, especially when you get a Packer QB along with several other ex-NFL QBs publicly saying they do the same thing. |
Because right now, the most important thing is that someone pays. We're in a "we want justice" era. And the NFL is giving us that justice via the Pats.
I haven't seen any report that concluded that Tom Brady actually ordered or personally deflated the balls himself. Only, that it is "more likely than not" that Brady was "generally aware". So to me, suspending someone for 25% of a season for being most likely generally aware seems excessive.
What's next? Some catcher in baseball gets suspended for 40 games because he was more likely generally aware that a pitcher was using pine tar? |
Brady lobbied in 2006 for a rule that allowed QBs to check for the air pressure of footballs prior to games. It's also QBs job to check ball pressure before game time. To say that he was "probably aware" is being generous, more like "positively aware". And then to deny search of his texting records? Yeah, that gave it away. This is easier than a game of Clue to be frank. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | | The Patriots cheated. 13 out of 14 balls deflated. Maybe it didn't give them a substantially remarkable advantage, but that is irrelevant. They still committed an infraction that goes agains the integrity of the game and tarnishes its image. I don't know why people think the Patriots should be above the league and not pay the price. Add to the fact that they have a substantial track record of classlessness and cheating allegations (*asterisks or whatever you want to call them), I actually think the commissioner came down light on them. 4 games is a slap on the wrist. And then to hear Brady's daddy and agent come out with the "Sting Op" bull (bleep), what a joke. Just take your suspension and shut up. I for one am tired of the Patriots thinking they can bend the rules and not be called out for it. I expected more, 4 games is nothing. |
You should read the report; your numbers are wrong. In addition the "scientific testing" was deeply flawed, drawing into question the validity of the findings. |
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32
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | ESPN/ABC News poll shows support for NFL over Patriots, Brady
NFL fans, by nearly a 2-1 margin, support the league's sanctions against New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and the team, and more than half think Brady himself cheated in what has become known as Deflategate.
The ESPN/ABC News poll found that 63 percent of all fans surveyed, and 76 percent of self-described "avid" fans, supported the NFL's decision to suspend Brady for four games, fine the Patriots $1 million and take away a first-round and fourth-round draft pick from the team for its involvement in the using underinflated footballs during a January playoff game. In addition, 54 percent of all fans and 69 percent of avid fans think Brady "cheated," while 52 percent overall and 63 percent of avid fans think, regardless of Brady's actions, the Patriots cheated. |
LINK
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | The Patriots cheated. 13 out of 14 balls deflated. Maybe it didn't give them a substantially remarkable advantage, but that is irrelevant. They still committed an infraction that goes agains the integrity of the game and tarnishes its image. I don't know why people think the Patriots should be above the league and not pay the price. Add to the fact that they have a substantial track record of classlessness and cheating allegations (*asterisks or whatever you want to call them), I actually think the commissioner came down light on them. 4 games is a slap on the wrist. And then to hear Brady's daddy and agent come out with the "Sting Op" bull (bleep), what a joke. Just take your suspension and shut up. I for one am tired of the Patriots thinking they can bend the rules and not be called out for it. I expected more, 4 games is nothing. |
You should read the report; your numbers are wrong. In addition the "scientific testing" was deeply flawed, drawing into question the validity of the findings. |
You are right, my numbers are off. I was going going by memory, yet in these situations it's crucial to be accurate. It was 10 out of 12 balls. That's still more than 80%. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | The Patriots cheated. 13 out of 14 balls deflated. Maybe it didn't give them a substantially remarkable advantage, but that is irrelevant. They still committed an infraction that goes agains the integrity of the game and tarnishes its image. I don't know why people think the Patriots should be above the league and not pay the price. Add to the fact that they have a substantial track record of classlessness and cheating allegations (*asterisks or whatever you want to call them), I actually think the commissioner came down light on them. 4 games is a slap on the wrist. And then to hear Brady's daddy and agent come out with the "Sting Op" bull (bleep), what a joke. Just take your suspension and shut up. I for one am tired of the Patriots thinking they can bend the rules and not be called out for it. I expected more, 4 games is nothing. |
You should read the report; your numbers are wrong. In addition the "scientific testing" was deeply flawed, drawing into question the validity of the findings. |
You are right, my numbers are off. I was going going by memory, yet in these situations it's crucial to be accurate. It was 10 out of 12 balls. That's still more than 80%. |
And the actual PSI measurement was both potentially inaccurate and inconclusive for a variety of reasons that I introduced earlier in this thread.
I find the text messages suspicious, but after discounting the PSI data the text messages by themselves fall short of the bar (i.e. "more probable than not") in terms of judging misconduct. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | “Prior to Tommy and Peyton Manning going to the league and saying, ‘Let us doctor our balls' we used to all play with the same balls,” Feeley told 97.5 The Fanatic, via PFT.
(In 2006, two years after Feeley says he saw Brady breaking the rules, the NFL allowed teams to provide their own footballs for use during games, thanks largely to the lobbying efforts of Brady and Manning.)
Feeley continued: “Somehow this beat-up ball from the ball boy was getting thrown in on offense for New England, yet when we were on offense this orange brand new ball was getting thrown in.”
“He's getting his own balls thrown in on offense,” Feeley said. “That was an issue to me at the time. ...We saw it then.” |
AJ Feeley Calls Out Brady / Patriots
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | David Carr spoke of deflating footballs in 2006
As the search for evidence of other allegations of cheating against the Patriots continues, the search for evidence of other allegations of cheating by other teams continues. As does the search for evidence of other admissions of cheating.
Consider this 2006 article from Judy Battista, then of the New York Times and currently of NFL Media. It focuses on quarterback preferences regarding their footballs, and it includes the following paragraph regarding the preferences of former Texans quarterback David Carr.
“Carr, like several other quarterbacks, said Denver was one of the toughest places to play,” Battista wrote. “He said he thought the ball expanded slightly at the altitude and felt slick because of the lower humidity. Before Houston’s preseason game at Denver, Carr instructed the ball boys to let a little air out of the Texans’ footballs.” (Emphasis added.)....
Regardless, nothing in the article got anyone in trouble, perhaps because before January 18, 2015 it was a given that quarterbacks like their footballs to feel a certain way — and it also was a given that the league had no reason to keep them from being able to comfortably throw the ball. |
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/16/david-carr-spoke-of-deflating-footballs-in-2006/ |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/17/jack-del-rio-thinks-deflategate-punishment-an-overreaction/
| Quote: | Jack Del Rio thinks #DeflateGate punishment an “overreaction”
While most coaches are doing their best to stay out of the #DeflateGate business, Raiders coach Jack Del Rio didn’t mind wading in.
Speaking at his induction into the Southern Cal Athletics Hall of Fame, Del Rio compared the NFL’s punishment of the Patriots to the penalties levied against his alma mater after the Reggie Bush investigation.
“I think there are some similarities in terms of an overreaction, from my standpoint,” Del Rio said, via the Associated Press. “I think it was a little bit overdone, but that’s somebody else’s problem right now.”
The second part of that quote might not absolve him from the first in the minds of some, but Del Rio said that the league would have been better off giving advance notice to the teams involved.
“Everybody understands that quarterbacks all want to get the balls how they like them, and why not?” he said. “They throw these balls around, and one of the reasons the sport is so popular is the ability of guys like Peyton [Manning] and [Tom] Brady to throw the ball the way they do.”
The Patriots were fined $1 million and lost first- and fourth-round picks, and Brady was suspended four games, pending his appeal.
At the same event, Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said he supported the league’s investigation.
“Nobody wants to play this game thinking that somebody has some kind of advantage, players and fans alike, and so they did the right thing in following up on it,” Carroll said.
That’s the safer way to discuss something that’s not necessarily your business, which is the way most are choosing to go about it. |
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waterman40
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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I believe the severity of the sentence on both Brady and the Pats is an attempt to change the culture of gamesmanship (which slips into cheating) in New England. Other teams are being punished and the Saints were hit with a very strong penalty a few years ago too. I think my making it 4 games for Brady and a million dollar fine and loss of a first round pick, the league wants the Patriots to step back away from this edge of trying to get away with as much stuff as they can.
I hope the 4 game suspension holds, just so that the Pats have a reasonable chance to start the year 2-2, and maybe that makes them back away from the next thing they contemplate to get an illegal or onsavory edge over their competition. Now if Buffalo or the Dolphins start 4-0, and the pats are 2 games back, I think it will be a very strong lesson learned. |
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