D'Angelo Russell
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:09 pm    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
Lakers2001 wrote:
He's not a PG. So with a top 3 pick you would take a undersized SG?

So you haven't watched him play at all. But anyhow, how the heck is 6'5 with a 6'9 wingspan undersized?


Because it's 6'3.5" w/o shoes and a 6'8.5" wingspan, essentially, Russell Westbrook height and length.


It's better than Bradley Beal's measurements.


Beal doesn't have a lil hightop

I'm a height stickler. lmao really. especially since i want him to be a PG
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:52 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
My concern though is that on a few possessions, he just threw up contested 3's when he couldn't get past his man. I don't care if they go in or not, they're bad shots.


would you say the same to curry or klay? if you knock it down it's a good shot. that audacious arrogance is necessary to be a superstar.

for average players yes, they're terrible shots. for stars? meh.

he'll grow as a player and cut that stuff out, i like the arrogance.


Those guys are elite shooters with pure shot forms.

Russell, does not have that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:56 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
My concern though is that on a few possessions, he just threw up contested 3's when he couldn't get past his man. I don't care if they go in or not, they're bad shots.


would you say the same to curry or klay? if you knock it down it's a good shot. that audacious arrogance is necessary to be a superstar.

for average players yes, they're terrible shots. for stars? meh.

he'll grow as a player and cut that stuff out, i like the arrogance.


Those guys are elite shooters with pure shot forms.

Russell, does not have that.


he doesn't get enough extension on his follow through (he banked one in today) . he may be better from deeper (NBA 3)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Beal doesn't have a lil hightop

I'm a height stickler. lmao really. especially since i want him to be a PG


do you understand how height measurement works? hair isn't like concrete. it gets flattened down. it doesn't add height, if it does it's like less than an eighth of an inch. i have no idea why you keep bringing up hair. it's like people who think big beards help a fighter's chin lol
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject:

lkjhf wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Beal doesn't have a lil hightop

I'm a height stickler. lmao really. especially since i want him to be a PG


do you understand how height measurement works? hair isn't like concrete. it gets flattened down. it doesn't add height, if it does it's like less than an eighth of an inch. i have no idea why you keep bringing up hair. it's like people who think big beards help a fighter's chin lol


I always thought hair was included - ever since Kobe's 6'7 measurement..
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I always thought hair was included - ever since Kobe's 6'7 measurement..


it's not, or else ben wallace would be like a seven footer with his big azz old fro.

same with "with shoes" measurements, i do not see the point at all, and that awful "everyone plays in shoes" argument. some shoes add like half an inch to height while some add a full two inches. why not get, ya know, the ACTUAL heights of players to compare? lol
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:30 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
My concern though is that on a few possessions, he just threw up contested 3's when he couldn't get past his man. I don't care if they go in or not, they're bad shots.


would you say the same to curry or klay? if you knock it down it's a good shot. that audacious arrogance is necessary to be a superstar.

for average players yes, they're terrible shots. for stars? meh.

he'll grow as a player and cut that stuff out, i like the arrogance.


Those guys are elite shooters with pure shot forms.

Russell, does not have that.


This. And that it was (at least as far as I can tell) a bail out for not being able to get past his man is just not something I like.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:32 pm    Post subject:

lkjhf wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I always thought hair was included - ever since Kobe's 6'7 measurement..


it's not, or else ben wallace would be like a seven footer with his big azz old fro.

same with "with shoes" measurements, i do not see the point at all, and that awful "everyone plays in shoes" argument. some shoes add like half an inch to height while some add a full two inches. why not get, ya know, the ACTUAL heights of players to compare? lol


I know, I just don't get those people. Who cares if they play in shoes, the importance of height is relative, so if they're all on equal footing (pun intended,) then the differences would all be the same (and more accurate to actual physical differences.) And what guarantee does anyone have that the shoes they wear to the combine will be the shoes they play their games in?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:52 pm    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
My concern though is that on a few possessions, he just threw up contested 3's when he couldn't get past his man. I don't care if they go in or not, they're bad shots.


would you say the same to curry or klay? if you knock it down it's a good shot. that audacious arrogance is necessary to be a superstar.

for average players yes, they're terrible shots. for stars? meh.

he'll grow as a player and cut that stuff out, i like the arrogance.


Those guys are elite shooters with pure shot forms.

Russell, does not have that.


This. And that it was (at least as far as I can tell) a bail out for not being able to get past his man is just not something I like.




Same set shots behind the arc.

Same reasons why he hasn't proven he can legitimately handle playing PG full time.

Same reasons why he can be a great playmaking SG.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject:

It's not like he thought he couldn't get past his man, more like he just wanted to shoot a three. If you're shooting 44% from three, you can afford to take a few of those.

Regarding it being a set shot, there's really not a huge difference in vert between his vs Curry's jumper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=85027636&v=O70rVNKIUGE&feature=player_detailpage&;x-yt-ts=1422503916#t=149
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:17 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
It's not like he thought he couldn't get past his man, more like he just wanted to shoot a three. If you're shooting 44% from three, you can afford to take a few of those.

Regarding it being a set shot, there's really not a huge difference in vert between his vs Curry's jumper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=85027636&v=O70rVNKIUGE&feature=player_detailpage&;x-yt-ts=1422503916#t=149


I'm pretty sure Russell is going to be special by the time he's 25 if not sooner. He's the most exciting player in this draft by far.

He's the one I want paired with randle and Idc if he's at pg or sg. Doesn't matter as long as he's on the court.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:44 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
My concern though is that on a few possessions, he just threw up contested 3's when he couldn't get past his man. I don't care if they go in or not, they're bad shots.


would you say the same to curry or klay? if you knock it down it's a good shot. that audacious arrogance is necessary to be a superstar.

for average players yes, they're terrible shots. for stars? meh.

he'll grow as a player and cut that stuff out, i like the arrogance.


Those guys are elite shooters with pure shot forms.

Russell, does not have that.


This. And that it was (at least as far as I can tell) a bail out for not being able to get past his man is just not something I like.




Same set shots behind the arc.

Same reasons why he hasn't proven he can legitimately handle playing PG full time.

Same reasons why he can be a great playmaking SG.


I have no problem with his form from 3, it looks pure to me (and his 3pt % suggests that he is an elite 3 pt shooter). The best 3 point shooters all have a semi-set shot and shoot on the way up for a quick release rather than at the peak of their jump. In my own experience (and not to brag but I am a very good shooter) that's the most consistent way to shoot from range.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "same reasons"?

I watched the video and saw nothing to suggest he couldn't play as a PG - he is poised, makes accurate and timely passes, and has good court vision. He forces defenses into tough situations in pick and roll because you can't go under but if you fight over he can get in the lane and hit a pull up jumper, finish, or find the roll man.

I'm not sure what we're disagreeing on when we watch this kid because he looks like he's going to be a superstar to me at either backcourt position.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:52 am    Post subject:

His passing and ability to read the floor are everything you would want from your PG. I think Mike may have been referring to his loose handle and also lack of "get to the basket" burst in the half court. IMO these things can be worked on, and not all good PGs need the latter.

If you read DX's old scouting reports on Steph Curry, it actually fits Russell to a T. Not that I think he's going to be the next Curry, but a lot of the weaknesses they talk about is stuff that Curry completely shrugged off in the NBA.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NCAA-Weekly-Performers-22809-3122/

But the reason I'm high on him is not because he reminds me of any single player, but because of poise and his ability to completely control the action without forcing anything, and then step up in key moments. It's not common to see intangibles and leadership like that, even among NBA stars.

Full game vs Indiana:

Full game vs Maryland:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject:

Omg the kid is a pg. He already is a better passer than Steph Curry and Curry seems to be doing fine as a scoring pg. He will start at pg, then when Kobe comes off the court he will probably slide to 2 and bring the backup pg in. Atleast for next season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Shot form? This kid is knocking down 46.3% from 3 point range, with VERY few catch and shoot opportunities. Almost all of them are off the bounce, PUJITs, etc. He has a lightning quick release. I couldn't care less that his shot form is a little unorthodox. Certainly wouldn't be the first great shooter who's jumper fit that description.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:17 pm    Post subject:

He is really impressive. I just hope he doesn't get too cute with passing. But his vision is great. His 3 point shooting looks good too, though he settles a bit too much for the 3.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
My concern though is that on a few possessions, he just threw up contested 3's when he couldn't get past his man. I don't care if they go in or not, they're bad shots.


would you say the same to curry or klay? if you knock it down it's a good shot. that audacious arrogance is necessary to be a superstar.

for average players yes, they're terrible shots. for stars? meh.

he'll grow as a player and cut that stuff out, i like the arrogance.


Those guys are elite shooters with pure shot forms.

Russell, does not have that.


This. And that it was (at least as far as I can tell) a bail out for not being able to get past his man is just not something I like.




Same set shots behind the arc.

Same reasons why he hasn't proven he can legitimately handle playing PG full time.

Same reasons why he can be a great playmaking SG.


I have no problem with his form from 3, it looks pure to me (and his 3pt % suggests that he is an elite 3 pt shooter). The best 3 point shooters all have a semi-set shot and shoot on the way up for a quick release rather than at the peak of their jump. In my own experience (and not to brag but I am a very good shooter) that's the most consistent way to shoot from range.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "same reasons"?

I watched the video and saw nothing to suggest he couldn't play as a PG - he is poised, makes accurate and timely passes, and has good court vision. He forces defenses into tough situations in pick and roll because you can't go under but if you fight over he can get in the lane and hit a pull up jumper, finish, or find the roll man.

I'm not sure what we're disagreeing on when we watch this kid because he looks like he's going to be a superstar to me at either backcourt position.


He doesn't follow-through on his release well behind the arc. At times, he flings the ball up just to make sure it doesn't get swatted.

He has issues handling backcourt pressure and approaching trap defenses.

I still think he's a playmaking SG.

These are basic things that someone like, Tyus Jones has no problem with, despite having less size and wingspan.

I'm not doubting his talents at all. I just don't see how this guy is a PG at the NBA level when he struggles with ball-protection and does high risk moves 30' away from the hoop.

There's a difference between PG ball-handling and SG (iso) ball-handling.

It's difficult to have both in the same player.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:57 am    Post subject:

He doesn't struggle with ball protection.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
He doesn't struggle with ball protection.


I disagree.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:11 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
He doesn't struggle with ball protection.


I disagree.


He's turning the ball over 2.4 times per game in Big 10 play, which is very low for someone who has as much offensive responsibility as he does. Better college A:TO ratio than Lillard, Roy, Harden, Curry, or any of the other guys that he's compared to.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
He doesn't struggle with ball protection.


I disagree.


He's turning the ball over 2.4 times per game in Big 10 play, which is very low for someone who has as much offensive responsibility as he does. Better college A:TO ratio than Lillard, Roy, Harden, Curry, or any of the other guys that he's compared to.


I think i know what mike is talking about. I've seen Russell fumble his handle on multiple occasions and either recovers or turns the ball over when bringing the ball up court. I'm not so sure that he's struggling with the defense as much as it may be another issue. I'm concerned he may be either too lackadaisical, cocky, or looses focus because a lot of the times it seems as though they are unforced errors. Anyway you look at it he needs to work on his handle a little to prevent this from happening but I think he has the tools to do it. I've watched each of his games multiple times and I think he is fully capable of playing point guard with some development but he's not all the way there yet. However, with the size of his hands he should be able to develop into a pretty good ball handler eventually. What he's can't do is gain enough weight or athleticism to play at 2 guard full time. This may hurt his draft stock a bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:03 pm    Post subject:

He's a playmaker. I don't see him with curry/cp3 handles. I think they're diffrerent skills.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject:

PICKnPOP wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
He doesn't struggle with ball protection.


I disagree.


He's turning the ball over 2.4 times per game in Big 10 play, which is very low for someone who has as much offensive responsibility as he does. Better college A:TO ratio than Lillard, Roy, Harden, Curry, or any of the other guys that he's compared to.


I think i know what mike is talking about. I've seen Russell fumble his handle on multiple occasions and either recovers or turns the ball over when bringing the ball up court. I'm not so sure that he's struggling with the defense as much as it may be another issue. I'm concerned he may be either too lackadaisical, cocky, or looses focus because a lot of the times it seems as though they are unforced errors. Anyway you look at it he needs to work on his handle a little to prevent this from happening but I think he has the tools to do it. I've watched each of his games multiple times and I think he is fully capable of playing point guard with some development but he's not all the way there yet. However, with the size of his hands he should be able to develop into a pretty good ball handler eventually. What he's can't do is gain enough weight or athleticism to play at 2 guard full time. This may hurt his draft stock a bit.


Exactly.

This isn't about how many turnovers he averages. It is about how he gets the turnovers.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:43 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
He doesn't struggle with ball protection.


I disagree.


He's turning the ball over 2.4 times per game in Big 10 play, which is very low for someone who has as much offensive responsibility as he does. Better college A:TO ratio than Lillard, Roy, Harden, Curry, or any of the other guys that he's compared to.


I think i know what mike is talking about. I've seen Russell fumble his handle on multiple occasions and either recovers or turns the ball over when bringing the ball up court. I'm not so sure that he's struggling with the defense as much as it may be another issue. I'm concerned he may be either too lackadaisical, cocky, or looses focus because a lot of the times it seems as though they are unforced errors. Anyway you look at it he needs to work on his handle a little to prevent this from happening but I think he has the tools to do it. I've watched each of his games multiple times and I think he is fully capable of playing point guard with some development but he's not all the way there yet. However, with the size of his hands he should be able to develop into a pretty good ball handler eventually. What he's can't do is gain enough weight or athleticism to play at 2 guard full time. This may hurt his draft stock a bit.


Exactly.

This isn't about how many turnovers he averages. It is about how he gets the turnovers.


If we're not gauging it by whether or not he turns the ball over, it's an irrelevant discussion. You said that he struggles with ball protection. Coaches and talent evaluators aren't going to care if a guys dribbles like Kyrie Irving and then makes a bad decision at the end to turn the ball over. Conversely, they're not going to care if he's not an especially jaw-dropping dribbler, but creates open shots and doesn't give the ball to the other team very often. You either turn the ball over or you don't. You either create an open look or you don't. The "how" doesn't matter at all.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:16 am    Post subject:

The "how" matters when you're trying to predict how someone will do against different/higher competition.
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