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kaoss128
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 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: Is Zach Randolph A Hall Of Famer? |
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It completely blows my mind that I'm asking that especially when you think about how much of a cancer everyone use to view him as. But then I read this in Simmon's trade value column:
| Quote: | | He’s one of 18 players to play at least 850 games, average 17 ppg and 9.5 rpg and have a career PER over 19 … and the other 17 guys were Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers? |
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Sacreligious
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Given who gets in the Hall these days, I would not be surprised if he did get in.
Mitch Richmond is in the HoF for christ's sake. So pretty much anyone who puts up ok numbers can get in. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Is Zach Randolph A Hall Of Famer? |
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| kaoss128 wrote: | | Quote: | | He’s one of 18 players to play at least 850 games, average 17 ppg and 9.5 rpg and have a career PER over 19 … and the other 17 guys were Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers? |
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That kind of argument can be misleading. How does he actually compare to those other players? Is he in the middle of the pack, or does he just barely meet the minimum criteria? It's the latter, of course. This sort of argument groups a 17/9.5/19 PER guy with Wilt Chamberlain.
The real question is whether anyone with truly comparable stats has made the HoF, given that (1) he hasn't won a bunch of titles and doesn't get the halo effect, and (2) he doesn't have a great college resume ala Adrian Dantley.
The bottom line is that his chances of making the Hall of Fame are remote. Simmons isn't the brightest bulb when it comes to this stuff. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| He's been an All Star twice and has 1 All NBA selection (3rd team). He's not making it. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yes
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Variant
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| No. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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22
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| No bueno |
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K28
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| No. |
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OregonLakerGuy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Not if it were up to me |
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| lol. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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If you just say it out loud....."Zach Randolph, a Hall of Famer"......It kinda makes you bust out laughing....
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“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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thurloly
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| lol |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Is Zach Randolph A Hall Of Famer? |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: | | Quote: | | He’s one of 18 players to play at least 850 games, average 17 ppg and 9.5 rpg and have a career PER over 19 … and the other 17 guys were Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers? |
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That kind of argument can be misleading. How does he actually compare to those other players? Is he in the middle of the pack, or does he just barely meet the minimum criteria? It's the latter, of course. This sort of argument groups a 17/9.5/19 PER guy with Wilt Chamberlain.
The real question is whether anyone with truly comparable stats has made the HoF, given that (1) he hasn't won a bunch of titles and doesn't get the halo effect, and (2) he doesn't have a great college resume ala Adrian Dantley.
The bottom line is that his chances of making the Hall of Fame are remote. Simmons isn't the brightest bulb when it comes to this stuff. |
Bill James has written about stuff like this. The criteria is carefully selected to group a player with guys who are much better than him but separate him from lesser guys who are actually more comparable.
In terms of PPG/RPG, a more accurate grouping of players for Randolph would be Carlos Boozer, Jack Sikma, and Derrick Coleman. Statistically, he's closer to all those guys than to any of the 17 Hall of Famers. |
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K2
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| lol no |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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yes, punching the Kobe Stopper sealed the deal.
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Lakers2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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NO.
If he wins 2 rings and Finals MVP then maybe. |
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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As of now, no. If you have to think about it, you don't deserve to be in the Hall.
If I say Magic. Jordan. Jabbar. Chamberlain. O'Neal. Probably no thought was needed. Those are given. But if I have to weigh number and think about it, you shouldn't get it. All Halls are becoming watered down. It should be the best of the best of the best. |
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Not at this point. But if the Grizz win the title, people might suddenly sing a different tune.
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12
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Sacreligious wrote: | Given who gets in the Hall these days, I would not be surprised if he did get in.
Mitch Richmond is in the HoF for christ's sake. So pretty much anyone who puts up ok numbers can get in. |
Who the hell is Mitch Richmond? Why is he in the hall with Jordan, Shaq, Magic, Malone, Kareem, Pippen, Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson? Shouldn't the Hall of Fame be an exclusive club? Where you only get in if at some point of your career, you were considered or at least debated as the best in the game... I'm not trying to hate on Mitch Richmond... Even though I don't know who he is...
If you're gonna put everyone who ever played professionally into the Hall of Fame then you should have a different Hall for guys like Jordan, Kobe Magic, Bird and Wilt... Call it the Hall of Game!
We should start our own hall! With black jack and hookers!
End Rant |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| 12 wrote: | | Who the hell is Mitch Richmond? Why is he in the hall with Jordan, Shaq, Magic, Malone, Kareem, Pippen, Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson? Shouldn't the Hall of Fame be an exclusive club? Where you only get in if at some point of your career, you were considered or at least debated as the best in the game... I'm not trying to hate on Mitch Richmond... Even though I don't know who he is... |
Richmond actually played for the Lakers on the third title team with Snaq. He must have been before your time. He was a marginal pick for the HoF, but there have been a lot worse picks. Calvin Murphy and K.C. Jones pretty much define the bottom of the barrel for me, but the fact that toxic players like Adrian Dantley got into the Hall is galling.
I recommend Bill James' book The Politics of Glory (now called Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame? or something like that). It is about the baseball HoF, but much of the discussion is equally applicable to basketball. The key points are (1) the standards have never been as high as you want them to be, (2) from time to time, all sorts of people have gotten into the Hall due to cronyism and media campaigns, and (3) it is easy to manufacture arguments for why some marginal guy should be in the Hall. In the case of basketball, there is the additional level of confusion that comes from the fact that it is the Basketball HoF, not the NBA HoF. College and overseas accomplishments count, too.
Some of the teams from the '60s had 7 or 8 future Hall of Famers on their rosters. Many of those guys have no business being in the Hall. The dilution took place a long, long time ago. I'll take Mitch Richmond over many of those guys, and over Calvin Murphy. We just have to resist allowing the terrible picks from the past to define the standard for the present. Zach Randolph is a far greater player than K.C. Jones or Calvin Murphy, but he still doesn't belong in the Hall. Just because we can't get rid of Jones or Murphy does not mean that we have to keep making bad picks. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| doughboy90650 wrote: | As of now, no. If you have to think about it, you don't deserve to be in the Hall.
If I say Magic. Jordan. Jabbar. Chamberlain. O'Neal. Probably no thought was needed. Those are given. But if I have to weigh number and think about it, you shouldn't get it. All Halls are becoming watered down. It should be the best of the best of the best. |
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“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| 12 wrote: | | Sacreligious wrote: | Given who gets in the Hall these days, I would not be surprised if he did get in.
Mitch Richmond is in the HoF for christ's sake. So pretty much anyone who puts up ok numbers can get in. |
Who the hell is Mitch Richmond? Why is he in the hall with Jordan, Shaq, Magic, Malone, Kareem, Pippen, Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson? Shouldn't the Hall of Fame be an exclusive club? Where you only get in if at some point of your career, you were considered or at least debated as the best in the game... I'm not trying to hate on Mitch Richmond... Even though I don't know who he is...
If you're gonna put everyone who ever played professionally into the Hall of Fame then you should have a different Hall for guys like Jordan, Kobe Magic, Bird and Wilt... Call it the Hall of Game!
We should start our own hall! With black jack and hookers!
End Rant |
Exactly!
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“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Oliver Reed
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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There should only be a handful of hall of famers in each era. I do not know why so much discussion has to be made for a player to make it in to the hall of fame. Either you are, or you are not. This should not be in the discussion.
Is it just stats, titles and longevity? Hall of Famers need to be the true icons of the sport. The ones that changed an era, dominated in their era. Only a few do that. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Lol. No. |
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