ESPN: Lakers didn't treat aging superstar properly
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Lakers2001
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:10 pm    Post subject:

The only ones blaming Byron is the disgruntled Lin fans. Byrons handling of Kobe's minutes has nothing to do with the tear down of his body now. Its years of long hard use that is the factor. Kobe was this teams best chance to win games for the last decade or so just like Lebron he has to play big mintues. If lets say after the 2010 championship we had a slightly better 2nd option type then maybe it would have been wise to start reducing his minutes however that was never the case.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:21 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
If the Lakers got post Achilles Kobe "help," by tying guys up like Bledsoe to long term deals, then we would be in medicore hell for eternity. Spending money around THIS Kobe is stupid. They did the right thing. We need to let this thing crumble to the ground. You don't want to be the New York Knicks for the next 25 years.


I wonder how they handle this next offseason. They basically punted last offseason because they couldn't get a #1 and they didnt want to throw away this coming off seasons spending power by signing a guy that wasnt a franchise player. Since 2016 is tentatively scheduled to be Kobes last season, are they just going to go all in and sign whatever players are the best available for Kobe, even if they aren't the best fits for 2017 and beyond?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:22 am    Post subject:

Lakers2001 wrote:
The only ones blaming Byron is the disgruntled Lin fans. Byrons handling of Kobe's minutes has nothing to do with the tear down of his body now. Its years of long hard use that is the factor. Kobe was this teams best chance to win games for the last decade or so just like Lebron he has to play big mintues. If lets say after the 2010 championship we had a slightly better 2nd option type then maybe it would have been wise to start reducing his minutes however that was never the case.


I wouldn't say it had nothing to do with it. You can't blame Byron specifically for the shoulder injury, but a common sense thing to do with an aging coming off injury is to be conservative with his minutes. But then he decided to go the mentally challenged route and actually play him more than he wanted- which is a terrible mistake, even if Kobe didn't get a season ending injury. And I think a lot of the people are just reading the headline rather than the article. They DID mismanage Kobe's minutes. The FO could have stepped in and talked some sense into the coach, but they stood by and did nothing. Again, it was a huge mistake even without the shoulder injury.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:29 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Scott has talked about the Spurs being the “blueprint” for how to properly rest players


Scott talks too much.

If that's the blueprint, why don't you follow it?

I don't know if he blatantly lies or he actually does not understand what he is talking about [take Lin-Price controversy as another example].
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:32 am    Post subject:

s_habe wrote:
Quote:
Scott has talked about the Spurs being the “blueprint” for how to properly rest players


Scott talks too much.

If that's the blueprint, why don't you follow it?

I don't know if he blatantly lies or he actually does not understand what he is talking about [take Lin-Price controversy as another example].


I could fill three pages with the things that Scott has said he would do that he's actually done the opposite of.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:13 am    Post subject:

LOL giving your star 48m extension is being called mistreatment I will gladly be mistreated as a player.
Funny thing is if Kobe didn't have a major injury IMO he would take much less because I think he can have the assurance that he would last more and can extend after the contract is finish.
If Duncan/Dirk just came back from major injury I doubt Spurs/Dallas will give them half of their current salary now which I think is great for the organization but bad for the Players. And if both got an offer like kobe while they are coming back from a major injury I doubt they will not take 48m and insist on having a huge paycut.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:19 am    Post subject:

I'm talking about this year only. I see two sides to the mistreatment coin:

First, monetary - Kobe got paid. No argument about mistreatment there.

Second, physical management - this encompasses managing minutes, practices, injuries and aches and pains - this has been a complete failure. If you don't think so, ask yourself this "Day 1 of training camp next year, we have an exact replicate of this year up to now - and the result is season ending injury - is this just an aging superstar breaking down or sh$tty management?". You can debate both ways, but at least with a lighter load, you can say that the organization did everything they could to extend Kobe's career instead of where we are now.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:04 am    Post subject:

Kobe got paid.

Management got paid (through all the attention/hope for Kobe).

The Kobe gravy train will be ending soon. What is up management's sleeve? That is the ultimate question.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject:

jlinfan wrote:
I'm talking about this year only. I see two sides to the mistreatment coin:

First, monetary - Kobe got paid. No argument about mistreatment there.

Second, physical management - this encompasses managing minutes, practices, injuries and aches and pains - this has been a complete failure. If you don't think so, ask yourself this "Day 1 of training camp next year, we have an exact replicate of this year up to now - and the result is season ending injury - is this just an aging superstar breaking down or sh$tty management?". You can debate both ways, but at least with a lighter load, you can say that the organization did everything they could to extend Kobe's career instead of where we are now.


True. All the talk in this thread is about trashing Scott, Laker management, etc., and it all started with the BSPN article. We are in an inevitable down cycle, and this is a classic example of kicking someone when they're down.

Many Laker fans are buying into the hate until we rebuild this sucker. And yes it is a rebuild at this point...plain & simple.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Right... so Byron Scott represents the entire Los Angeles Lakers organization, now. Besides that, Kobe is in the twilight of his career. His body breaking down on him has nothing to do with mismanagement from coaching or anyone else.

Father Time is just catching up with him.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:05 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
s_habe wrote:
Quote:
Scott has talked about the Spurs being the “blueprint” for how to properly rest players


Scott talks too much.

If that's the blueprint, why don't you follow it?

I don't know if he blatantly lies or he actually does not understand what he is talking about [take Lin-Price controversy as another example].


I could fill three pages with the things that Scott has said he would do that he's actually done the opposite of.


Sounds like Presidential material.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: ESPN: Lakers didn't treat aging superstar properly

Voices wrote:
VegasLakerFan wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Not sure if already posted but this article has me shaking my head.

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/41019/lakers-didnt-treat-aging-superstar-properly

Quote:
SAN ANTONIO -- Kobe Bryant might have said it at a practice or a game, and he might have said it a month ago, or maybe longer. Byron Scott doesn't quite remember.

What the Lakers coach does remember is his star guard saying that his shoulder was bothering him.

“You all right?” Scott said he asked Bryant.

“I’m all right,” Bryant replied.

The two never talked about the issue again, Scott said.


Quote:
The first issue is well known: Scott simply played the 36-year old Bryant way too many minutes earlier this season -- a team-high 35.4 per night during the team’s first 27 games -- even though he said Bryant asked to play fewer minutes from the start.

Instead of employing a cautious Spurs-like approach, coach Byron Scott played Kobe Bryant too much early on.
“I don’t know if the wear and tear of playing so many minutes early is a result of what’s happening to him right now,” Scott said. “To be honest with you, I thought about that, it made me almost sick.”

Scott said he apologized to Bryant via text.

“His response was like, 'No, that ain’t it,'” Scott said. “He tried to make me feel better.”


Quote:
He still believes he can overcome because, well, he always has, even against great odds. The people around him -- namely Scott -- believe the same. At times, though, everyone seems to forget that Kobe Bryant is, first and foremost, human.

The usual protocol for a nagging injury, Scott said, is for a player to go talk to the team’s trainer, Gary Vitti. Does Scott know if Bryant ever did that? “I don’t,” Scott said.


Quote:
Where does blame lie? Certainly some falls on Bryant. He’s as powerful as any figure within the Lakers’ organization and as powerful as any player within any NBA franchise. If he wanted to play fewer minutes, he could have. If he wanted to get his shoulder examined earlier, he could have. The only person who could’ve stopped Kobe was Kobe, but he didn’t, because Kobe is Kobe. He believes he will overcome.

So the blame truly falls on Scott, who hasn’t been shy about admitting his fault in the issue. And, to a greater degree, the blame truly falls on the entire organization for not stepping in at some point earlier on when Bryant was playing all those minutes.

If the Lakers wanted a good lesson in how to handle superstars late in their careers, they only needed to glance down the sideline Friday.

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said he started resting Tim Duncan after winning the championship in 1999 “because the following year Timmy had a bad knee going into the playoffs. We had to make a decision.”

Duncan was 23 years old at the time and had just played his second NBA season.

“The docs cleared him, he could probably play, but I didn’t let him,” Popovich said. “I held him out. I did that with the thought of wanting him to have as long of a career as he wanted to. I didn’t want to take a chance to send him out there and do more damage to it. We had playoffs. So it started way back then.”

Fast-forward to Friday, and Duncan, now 38, had 14 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 blocks in 20 tidy minutes as the Spurs rolled to a double-digit win.

Scott has talked about the Spurs being the “blueprint” for how to properly rest players, and Popovich talked about that blueprint, the one the Lakers didn’t follow.

“You have a long view in the sense that you think about it, you look at the schedule at the beginning of the year, that kind of thing,” Popovich said. “Because it depends on how much people played in the last three days or last night and what’s coming up in the schedule or who else is hurt or injured.

“It’s never about wins or losses, it’s not about that,” Popovich said. “You don’t overplay somebody to get the win. Sometimes you’re in circumstances where it happens, like the two triple-overtimes we had. That really skewed things for us. I hated watching those guys play all those minutes, but I guess it would have been sweeter if we won. In general, it’s a process and you talk about it daily and weekly.”

The phrases “It’s never about wins and losses” and “You don’t overplay somebody to get the win” appear to be exactly what the Lakers didn’t do with Bryant early on this season, even though this season was never headed anywhere to begin with.

Either way, Bryant is now hurt, likely gone for the season, facing yet another rehab, and it’s not clear how this will affect what should be his final season in the NBA.


Yeah the Lakers have really mistreated Kobe Bryant.

Give me a break. Typical garbage ESPN hit piece. Lakers + something negative = clicks.


Agree..

Kobe averaged 1min. per game more than Duncan over his first 17 yrs.

Also, Pop is full of it as well, love Pop, but Duncan averaged almost 40min. Per game over his first 6 years. Pop did not limit Tim's min. At 23 yrs. old as he is saying.

This is a bunch poppycock, the stars play big min. period.

And who is responsible for Kobe own training routine.


Pop did play Tim heavy minutes for the first half of his career. But in 2000, Pop decided to not play Tim in the playoffs even though he was medically cleared, because he was worried he'd be permanently injured (a la Grant Hill). That was a ballsy move at the time, since Tim was not 100% committed yet...

That being said, the resurgence of the Spurs seems directly related to when they started playing the Big Three less and developed other players while resting their starters.

Bryon Scott is a bad coach, and could have handled Kobe's minutes better. Everyone knows that. His "No Threes" and "Play Kobe lots of minutes" strategies, is counter to basic understanding on how to paly in today's game.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:21 pm    Post subject:

I am still in amazement that posters here give such horrible opinions of ESPN, but still are the first to post articles from there. Which is it?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I am still in amazement that posters here give such horrible opinions of ESPN, but still are the first to post articles from there. Which is it?


I'm open-minded enough that I can tell the difference between Baxter Holmes and Henry Abbott. I also know that in media, the article writers generally don't write the headlines. Most people commenting to the thread are just reacting to the headline, while, I think a lot of the quotes and facts in the body of the interview are pretty damning of the way Kobe's condition were managed this year.

In hindsight, I should have titled this post: "Kobe played too many minutes and played hurt, and no one bothered to question it."
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:10 am    Post subject: Re: ESPN: Lakers didn't treat aging superstar properly

ppineda wrote:
Voices wrote:
VegasLakerFan wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Not sure if already posted but this article has me shaking my head.

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/41019/lakers-didnt-treat-aging-superstar-properly

Quote:
SAN ANTONIO -- Kobe Bryant might have said it at a practice or a game, and he might have said it a month ago, or maybe longer. Byron Scott doesn't quite remember.

What the Lakers coach does remember is his star guard saying that his shoulder was bothering him.

“You all right?” Scott said he asked Bryant.

“I’m all right,” Bryant replied.

The two never talked about the issue again, Scott said.


Quote:
The first issue is well known: Scott simply played the 36-year old Bryant way too many minutes earlier this season -- a team-high 35.4 per night during the team’s first 27 games -- even though he said Bryant asked to play fewer minutes from the start.

Instead of employing a cautious Spurs-like approach, coach Byron Scott played Kobe Bryant too much early on.
“I don’t know if the wear and tear of playing so many minutes early is a result of what’s happening to him right now,” Scott said. “To be honest with you, I thought about that, it made me almost sick.”

Scott said he apologized to Bryant via text.

“His response was like, 'No, that ain’t it,'” Scott said. “He tried to make me feel better.”


Quote:
He still believes he can overcome because, well, he always has, even against great odds. The people around him -- namely Scott -- believe the same. At times, though, everyone seems to forget that Kobe Bryant is, first and foremost, human.

The usual protocol for a nagging injury, Scott said, is for a player to go talk to the team’s trainer, Gary Vitti. Does Scott know if Bryant ever did that? “I don’t,” Scott said.


Quote:
Where does blame lie? Certainly some falls on Bryant. He’s as powerful as any figure within the Lakers’ organization and as powerful as any player within any NBA franchise. If he wanted to play fewer minutes, he could have. If he wanted to get his shoulder examined earlier, he could have. The only person who could’ve stopped Kobe was Kobe, but he didn’t, because Kobe is Kobe. He believes he will overcome.

So the blame truly falls on Scott, who hasn’t been shy about admitting his fault in the issue. And, to a greater degree, the blame truly falls on the entire organization for not stepping in at some point earlier on when Bryant was playing all those minutes.

If the Lakers wanted a good lesson in how to handle superstars late in their careers, they only needed to glance down the sideline Friday.

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said he started resting Tim Duncan after winning the championship in 1999 “because the following year Timmy had a bad knee going into the playoffs. We had to make a decision.”

Duncan was 23 years old at the time and had just played his second NBA season.

“The docs cleared him, he could probably play, but I didn’t let him,” Popovich said. “I held him out. I did that with the thought of wanting him to have as long of a career as he wanted to. I didn’t want to take a chance to send him out there and do more damage to it. We had playoffs. So it started way back then.”

Fast-forward to Friday, and Duncan, now 38, had 14 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 blocks in 20 tidy minutes as the Spurs rolled to a double-digit win.

Scott has talked about the Spurs being the “blueprint” for how to properly rest players, and Popovich talked about that blueprint, the one the Lakers didn’t follow.

“You have a long view in the sense that you think about it, you look at the schedule at the beginning of the year, that kind of thing,” Popovich said. “Because it depends on how much people played in the last three days or last night and what’s coming up in the schedule or who else is hurt or injured.

“It’s never about wins or losses, it’s not about that,” Popovich said. “You don’t overplay somebody to get the win. Sometimes you’re in circumstances where it happens, like the two triple-overtimes we had. That really skewed things for us. I hated watching those guys play all those minutes, but I guess it would have been sweeter if we won. In general, it’s a process and you talk about it daily and weekly.”

The phrases “It’s never about wins and losses” and “You don’t overplay somebody to get the win” appear to be exactly what the Lakers didn’t do with Bryant early on this season, even though this season was never headed anywhere to begin with.

Either way, Bryant is now hurt, likely gone for the season, facing yet another rehab, and it’s not clear how this will affect what should be his final season in the NBA.


Yeah the Lakers have really mistreated Kobe Bryant.

Give me a break. Typical garbage ESPN hit piece. Lakers + something negative = clicks.


Agree..

Kobe averaged 1min. per game more than Duncan over his first 17 yrs.

Also, Pop is full of it as well, love Pop, but Duncan averaged almost 40min. Per game over his first 6 years. Pop did not limit Tim's min. At 23 yrs. old as he is saying.

This is a bunch poppycock, the stars play big min. period.

And who is responsible for Kobe own training routine.


Pop did play Tim heavy minutes for the first half of his career. But in 2000, Pop decided to not play Tim in the playoffs even though he was medically cleared, because he was worried he'd be permanently injured (a la Grant Hill). That was a ballsy move at the time, since Tim was not 100% committed yet...

That being said, the resurgence of the Spurs seems directly related to when they started playing the Big Three less and developed other players while resting their starters.

Bryon Scott is a bad coach, and could have handled Kobe's minutes better. Everyone knows that. His "No Threes" and "Play Kobe lots of minutes" strategies, is counter to basic understanding on how to paly in today's game.


Dude, Kobe has played a very small amount of his playing career with BS as his coach. Please stop with the criticism of Scott who has accomplish more with less. Scott never landed in a great coaching position like the creepy Kerr who reneged on his agreement with PJ to coach NY. Scott has coached in the finals twice and has been coach of the year with NO, not bad for such a horrible coach.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:25 am    Post subject:

pluebot wrote:
LOL giving your star 48m extension is being called mistreatment I will gladly be mistreated as a player.
Funny thing is if Kobe didn't have a major injury IMO he would take much less because I think he can have the assurance that he would last more and can extend after the contract is finish.
If Duncan/Dirk just came back from major injury I doubt Spurs/Dallas will give them half of their current salary now which I think is great for the organization but bad for the Players. And if both got an offer like kobe while they are coming back from a major injury I doubt they will not take 48m and insist on having a huge paycut.


Hey rookie, putting Kobe contract in context, dude, rookies are suppose to be BS hatters and not make sense about Kobe and his mistreatment. Why would Dirk and Duncan want a contract that is more than double of what Kobe makes, crazy isn't it.

Good job.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: ESPN: Lakers didn't treat aging superstar properly

Treble Clef wrote:
VegasLakerFan wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Not sure if already posted but this article has me shaking my head.

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/41019/lakers-didnt-treat-aging-superstar-properly

Quote:
SAN ANTONIO -- Kobe Bryant might have said it at a practice or a game, and he might have said it a month ago, or maybe longer. Byron Scott doesn't quite remember.

What the Lakers coach does remember is his star guard saying that his shoulder was bothering him.

“You all right?” Scott said he asked Bryant.

“I’m all right,” Bryant replied.

The two never talked about the issue again, Scott said.


Quote:
The first issue is well known: Scott simply played the 36-year old Bryant way too many minutes earlier this season -- a team-high 35.4 per night during the team’s first 27 games -- even though he said Bryant asked to play fewer minutes from the start.

Instead of employing a cautious Spurs-like approach, coach Byron Scott played Kobe Bryant too much early on.
“I don’t know if the wear and tear of playing so many minutes early is a result of what’s happening to him right now,” Scott said. “To be honest with you, I thought about that, it made me almost sick.”

Scott said he apologized to Bryant via text.

“His response was like, 'No, that ain’t it,'” Scott said. “He tried to make me feel better.”


Quote:
He still believes he can overcome because, well, he always has, even against great odds. The people around him -- namely Scott -- believe the same. At times, though, everyone seems to forget that Kobe Bryant is, first and foremost, human.

The usual protocol for a nagging injury, Scott said, is for a player to go talk to the team’s trainer, Gary Vitti. Does Scott know if Bryant ever did that? “I don’t,” Scott said.


Quote:
Where does blame lie? Certainly some falls on Bryant. He’s as powerful as any figure within the Lakers’ organization and as powerful as any player within any NBA franchise. If he wanted to play fewer minutes, he could have. If he wanted to get his shoulder examined earlier, he could have. The only person who could’ve stopped Kobe was Kobe, but he didn’t, because Kobe is Kobe. He believes he will overcome.

So the blame truly falls on Scott, who hasn’t been shy about admitting his fault in the issue. And, to a greater degree, the blame truly falls on the entire organization for not stepping in at some point earlier on when Bryant was playing all those minutes.

If the Lakers wanted a good lesson in how to handle superstars late in their careers, they only needed to glance down the sideline Friday.

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said he started resting Tim Duncan after winning the championship in 1999 “because the following year Timmy had a bad knee going into the playoffs. We had to make a decision.”

Duncan was 23 years old at the time and had just played his second NBA season.

“The docs cleared him, he could probably play, but I didn’t let him,” Popovich said. “I held him out. I did that with the thought of wanting him to have as long of a career as he wanted to. I didn’t want to take a chance to send him out there and do more damage to it. We had playoffs. So it started way back then.”

Fast-forward to Friday, and Duncan, now 38, had 14 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 blocks in 20 tidy minutes as the Spurs rolled to a double-digit win.

Scott has talked about the Spurs being the “blueprint” for how to properly rest players, and Popovich talked about that blueprint, the one the Lakers didn’t follow.

“You have a long view in the sense that you think about it, you look at the schedule at the beginning of the year, that kind of thing,” Popovich said. “Because it depends on how much people played in the last three days or last night and what’s coming up in the schedule or who else is hurt or injured.

“It’s never about wins or losses, it’s not about that,” Popovich said. “You don’t overplay somebody to get the win. Sometimes you’re in circumstances where it happens, like the two triple-overtimes we had. That really skewed things for us. I hated watching those guys play all those minutes, but I guess it would have been sweeter if we won. In general, it’s a process and you talk about it daily and weekly.”

The phrases “It’s never about wins and losses” and “You don’t overplay somebody to get the win” appear to be exactly what the Lakers didn’t do with Bryant early on this season, even though this season was never headed anywhere to begin with.

Either way, Bryant is now hurt, likely gone for the season, facing yet another rehab, and it’s not clear how this will affect what should be his final season in the NBA.


Yeah the Lakers have really mistreated Kobe Bryant.

Give me a break. Typical garbage ESPN hit piece. Lakers + something negative = clicks.


This article says what most of us in here have been saying all season.


Then that means most of you think about as deeply your average ESPN writer. I'll just leave that there.

Quote:

Byron played Kobe as much as he could and relied on Kobe to pull himself out of games if it was too much. Something we all know is not something Kobe is going to do. Kobe was willingly playing with one arm the last game. As long as he put Kobe out there, Kobe was going to do his best to play. For some reason, Byron failed to realize that.


Sounds like Kobe wasn't adequately taking care of himself, in that case. If Kobe says he's fine then it is perfectly reasonable for people to take him at his word.
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