Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject: For those who blame MDA for Kobe's achilles......
Don't get me wrong. I didn't like the guy at all for our HC. But despite all medical evidence to the contrary, MDA has taken a lot of flack for somehow running Kobe into the ground and thereby causing the Achilles Rupture.
So, now Brandon Jennings at the age of 26 and playing 28 mpg goes out and does the same thing. Was he being over worked too?
Achilles tears just happen sometimes. No one knows what happened with Kobe. Period. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144469 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: For those who blame MDA for Kobe's achilles......
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I didn't like the guy at all for our HC. But despite all medical evidence to the contrary, MDA has taken a lot of flack for somehow running Kobe into the ground and thereby causing the Achilles Rupture.
So, now Brandon Jennings at the age of 26 and playing 28 mpg goes out and does the same thing. Was he being over worked too?
Achilles tears just happen sometimes. No one knows what happened with Kobe. Period.
I would trust your word as a Dr more than that of most posters here. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Kobe had a rupture not just a tear. Tears happen more often, ruptures are worse. _________________
"Through the legs to the left, through the legs to the right, we don't run them Laker plays, we just Kobe fadeaway..."
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:51 pm Post subject:
When it happened, i went back and looked at all the achilles ruptures dating back to 'nique, and there was no correlation with minutes, age (average age of achilles rupture, 29, average nba age over that span, something around 28, statistically insignificant), time of season, time of game, minutes, etc. not to mention, why wasn't it happening with regularity back when guys logged huge minutes? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
MDa wore kobe down at the end. But he probably was fearful of his job at that point. And kobe was willing the team to the playoffs. A terrible confluence there despite noble and understandable reasons. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: For those who blame MDA for Kobe's achilles......
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I didn't like the guy at all for our HC. But despite all medical evidence to the contrary, MDA has taken a lot of flack for somehow running Kobe into the ground and thereby causing the Achilles Rupture.
So, now Brandon Jennings at the age of 26 and playing 28 mpg goes out and does the same thing. Was he being over worked too?
Achilles tears just happen sometimes. No one knows what happened with Kobe. Period.
Kobe's Achilles rupture didn't just happen. He got stepped under by Dahntay Jones several weeks before on a jumpshot. Then he played 5 straight 48 minute games and then came up lame twice in the Golden State game. The second time looked very much like he injured his ankle pretty badly. Vitti was seen talking to D'Antoni on the sideline, but D'Anotni decided not to pull Kobe. After all that...the rupture happened.
Having played sports a lot and dealing with my share of injuries, I can tell you that most of my injuries happened when I was tired/fatigued. It gets even worse when you're already playing with damaged body parts.
I suffered a pretty severe ankle injury about three years ago...I tore two ligaments in my ankle and also stretched my Achilles. The doctor gave me a lot of insight on interrelated the ankle was with the Achilles and how a weak ankle could put excess strain on the Achilles tendon.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject:
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles?
Not every sprain is the same? I've had my share of turned/sprained ankles...and none were like this particular one. It took close to a year to heal.
Most sprains are minor too...usually a stretching of ligaments. Most severe tears and any additional torsion on the joint are where damage to the Achilles can occur.
In my case, I tripped over something on the field, by foot dug in and then twisted.
Last edited by K28 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: For those who blame MDA for Kobe's achilles......
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I didn't like the guy at all for our HC. But despite all medical evidence to the contrary, MDA has taken a lot of flack for somehow running Kobe into the ground and thereby causing the Achilles Rupture.
So, now Brandon Jennings at the age of 26 and playing 28 mpg goes out and does the same thing. Was he being over worked too?
Achilles tears just happen sometimes. No one knows what happened with Kobe. Period.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject:
kray28_ wrote:
24 wrote:
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles?
Not every sprain is the same?
Sure, but you would expect to see some correlation if indeed this is true. That's the thing. The evidence just doesn't back up the idea that heavy minutes or a dinged up ankle cause achilles ruptures. Just no evidence there at all. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
MDA's inability to handle the stacked 2012-2013 team set in motion our steep decline. Of course, the blame really belongs to the FO for hiring the wrong coach for the team personel.
Kobe injury or not, MDA and the FO still shoulder the blame for the current state of the franchise.
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles?
Not every sprain is the same?
Sure, but you would expect to see some correlation if indeed this is true. That's the thing. The evidence just doesn't back up the idea that heavy minutes or a dinged up ankle cause achilles ruptures. Just no evidence there at all.
I know you saw the game, and I know you saw him get hurt not once, but twice before the actual rupture happened. '
Are you going to dispute that D'Antoni declined to pull him....knowing how much he had already pushed him?
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:25 pm Post subject:
kray28_ wrote:
24 wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
24 wrote:
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles?
Not every sprain is the same?
Sure, but you would expect to see some correlation if indeed this is true. That's the thing. The evidence just doesn't back up the idea that heavy minutes or a dinged up ankle cause achilles ruptures. Just no evidence there at all.
I know you saw the game, and I know you saw him get hurt not once, but twice before the actual rupture happened. '
Are you going to dispute that D'Antoni declined to pull him....knowing how much he had already pushed him?
No, i'm disputing that this caused the achilles rupture, since guys go back in hurt all the time and don't rupture achilles tendons. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles?
Not every sprain is the same?
Sure, but you would expect to see some correlation if indeed this is true. That's the thing. The evidence just doesn't back up the idea that heavy minutes or a dinged up ankle cause achilles ruptures. Just no evidence there at all.
I know you saw the game, and I know you saw him get hurt not once, but twice before the actual rupture happened. '
Are you going to dispute that D'Antoni declined to pull him....knowing how much he had already pushed him?
No, i'm disputing that this caused the achilles rupture, since guys go back in hurt all the time and don't rupture achilles tendons.
I think a true apples to apples comparison with other athletes is tough to do here because how many players were coming off 6 straight 48 minute games? Is there a real comparable out there? Or are you going to listen to scores of athletes who will tell you fatigue does them no favors when it comes to injuries?
I am almost certain having watched that game several times that Kobe partially damaged his Achilles on that second injury...a stretch/partial tear. It later fully ruptured when pushed off on it for a drive.
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles?
Isn't that a bit like, why do you find people who smoke not getting lung cancer?
Health issues, at least for now are really just numbers games of probabilities. _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
Joined: 16 Apr 2014 Posts: 1526 Location: Vancouver BC
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject:
I also don't think it was MDA.
But be that as it may, it mortalized Kobe.
Now he is not better than Pau Gasol.
Before it happened he was still arguably the best player in the league.
He would still be at the level of LeBron and Durant if it never happened.
Kobe had a rupture not just a tear. Tears happen more often, ruptures are worse.
LOL. Rupture is just another way to say a complete tear. It's synonymous.
When someone says torn achilles, it is assumed that it is ruptured.
Otherwise, it is called a partial tear.
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles?
Not every sprain is the same?
Sure, but you would expect to see some correlation if indeed this is true. That's the thing. The evidence just doesn't back up the idea that heavy minutes or a dinged up ankle cause achilles ruptures. Just no evidence there at all.
I know you saw the game, and I know you saw him get hurt not once, but twice before the actual rupture happened. '
Are you going to dispute that D'Antoni declined to pull him....knowing how much he had already pushed him?
No, i'm disputing that this caused the achilles rupture, since guys go back in hurt all the time and don't rupture achilles tendons.
I think a true apples to apples comparison with other athletes is tough to do here because how many players were coming off 6 straight 48 minute games? Is there a real comparable out there? Or are you going to listen to scores of athletes who will tell you fatigue does them no favors when it comes to injuries?
I am almost certain having watched that game several times that Kobe partially damaged his Achilles on that second injury...a stretch/partial tear. It later fully ruptured when pushed off on it for a drive.
From what I remember, the injuries in that game were both knee injuries, not ankle.
Does anyone have video to clarify this?
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: For those who blame MDA for Kobe's achilles......
Achilles injuries can happen to anyone. I think the problem in Kobe's case though is that he had already looked like he was going to be lost to injury twice in that game before that, and they didn't even take him out of the game. He was obviously exhausted, stumbling around. The eye test at that point said to pull him. There were people in the game threads asking to pull him. I was watching the game with a friend and couldn't believe that they didn't even take him out the second time. They just kept going.
Maybe that had nothing to do with the achilles injury and it was concidental. But when players are exhausted, they are more prone to injury. There's no way to know if the two were in any way related. But Kobe needed to be sat for a while in that game. I admire the courage he was showing, but in the aftermath was it worth it? If it had anything to do with the achilles, then it obviously wasn't. And it's the coaches job to protect the players from themselves. The same can be said for Byron this season.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:16 pm Post subject:
Telleris wrote:
24 wrote:
So why then, for example, do you find hundreds of guys playing on sprains, yet not one of them ruptures an achilles?
Isn't that a bit like, why do you find people who smoke not getting lung cancer?
Health issues, at least for now are really just numbers games of probabilities.
No, it would be like finding no statistical rise in cancer among smokers. If fatigue from heavy minutes and risk from playing on an injured foot/leg cause Achilles tears, there should be some, any, data to support it. But the data doesn't bear it out.
BTW, the Achilles is usually ruptured in a north south plant, not a twist, which is why sprains don't increase risk to any measurable degree. Also, lack of stretching or warming up is far riskier than fatigue. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
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