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LakeShow06 Star Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 2176
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Jordan Hill, sadly, is one alcoholic binge away from trouble...he has nowhere near the stability/production that Pau had hence the lowered value. |
Yep....and everybody wanted Pau to stay here on LG, right?!
Also, I take it you know J Hill personally and are privy to his daily habits to make such a claim about his personal life? _________________ "We might have had the worst season ever or could have the worst season ever for a Lakers team, but now let's have the greatest comeback that the league has ever seen." - Kobe Bryant |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jordan Hill, sadly, is one alcoholic binge away from trouble...he has nowhere near the stability/production that Pau had hence the lowered value. |
Yep....and everybody wanted Pau to stay here on LG, right?!
Also, I take it you know J Hill personally and are privy to his daily habits to make such a claim about his personal life? |
Quote: | So the 27-year-old Hill said he has stopped drinking alcohol, admitting it hurt his efforts on becoming the Lakers’ renewable energy source. Hill said the lifestyle change helped him drop from 253 pounds to 240. |
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20141021/lakers-jordan-hill-envisions-better-season-without-mike-dantoni-and-alcohol/1
He admitted it himself. His party happy ways are also pretty known. But he has put it together, for one season. For his sake hopefully he can continue. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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dmorans1 wrote: | baker7007 wrote: | I believe in order for Hill to be traded, the year 2 option kicks in. So in essence, a team will be trading for Hill for this year and next at $9m per. |
Not necessarily. He can be traded but with his consent. Then the other team would have the option for next season. |
So it would have to be a situation to his liking, or the other team has to want him next year as well. If one of those don't apply, then no trade. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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madddogg wrote: | Bard207 wrote: | madddogg wrote: |
Hill and lin are already playing like late first rounders, so why would we trade them for a potential in a second rounder? Would take a late first rounder though and hopefully that pick turns into a legit option for us. |
The Lakers stayed above the Salary Cap for many years and player salaries weren't a huge concern as long as the FO - ownership could tolerate the penalties applicable under the CBA in force at the particular point in time.
The Lakers will likely be cycling above and below the Salary Cap number for the next few seasons and even slightly overpaying players their worth such as Hill and Lin can impair other roster moves.
Getting players to outperform their pay can be huge for teams.
Jimmy Butler is making $2,008,748 this season and that enabled the Bulls to make other roster moves such as sign Pau Gasol.
Carrying Lin and Hill on the payroll next season at salaries in the $8 - 9 million @ year area could hinder the FO from making other roster moves. |
I see your point. But we need some role players who can fill the team for the plan of getting a marquee free agent. Lin is expiring, would resign him for steve blake contract 4-5 mil per season, Hill has one year expiring that can net us a decent player in return.
Also, lakers don't have a history of really finding diamonds in the rough in the 2nd round. Last one I can remember is nick van exel and hopefully clarkson can turn into that diamond. |
What sucks about Lin is that if we do not renounce him, he counts $12.45 mil against out cap, cutting the amount we would have to spend. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Rawr Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2007 Posts: 1186
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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I want Hill traded so we lose more games and get a higher draft chance, but also because I want to see Tarik Black and Ryan Kelly get more minutes.
We might need one of those two to be a start next year, so I'd like to see them get better immediately. _________________ You are either in or on your way to the NBA Finals. |
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LakeShow06 Star Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 2176
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jordan Hill, sadly, is one alcoholic binge away from trouble...he has nowhere near the stability/production that Pau had hence the lowered value. |
Yep....and everybody wanted Pau to stay here on LG, right?!
Also, I take it you know J Hill personally and are privy to his daily habits to make such a claim about his personal life? |
Quote: | So the 27-year-old Hill said he has stopped drinking alcohol, admitting it hurt his efforts on becoming the Lakers’ renewable energy source. Hill said the lifestyle change helped him drop from 253 pounds to 240. |
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20141021/lakers-jordan-hill-envisions-better-season-without-mike-dantoni-and-alcohol/1
He admitted it himself. His party happy ways are also pretty known. But he has put it together, for one season. For his sake hopefully he can continue. |
That's fine to look at his past party days (wasn't denying that), but your post made it sound like he's a ticking time-bomb, waiting to explode as if there have been very recent incidents. _________________ "We might have had the worst season ever or could have the worst season ever for a Lakers team, but now let's have the greatest comeback that the league has ever seen." - Kobe Bryant |
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Hard_Butter Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12223 Location: The Two One Three
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jordan Hill, sadly, is one alcoholic binge away from trouble...he has nowhere near the stability/production that Pau had hence the lowered value. |
Yep....and everybody wanted Pau to stay here on LG, right?!
Also, I take it you know J Hill personally and are privy to his daily habits to make such a claim about his personal life? |
Quote: | So the 27-year-old Hill said he has stopped drinking alcohol, admitting it hurt his efforts on becoming the Lakers’ renewable energy source. Hill said the lifestyle change helped him drop from 253 pounds to 240. |
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20141021/lakers-jordan-hill-envisions-better-season-without-mike-dantoni-and-alcohol/1
He admitted it himself. His party happy ways are also pretty known. But he has put it together, for one season. For his sake hopefully he can continue. |
That's fine to look at his past party days (wasn't denying that), but your post made it sound like he's a ticking time-bomb, waiting to explode as if there have been very recent incidents. |
Dude dropped weight?! Where was it from? His gut? Hill needs to hit the weight room hard. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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EchoZulu wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jordan Hill, sadly, is one alcoholic binge away from trouble...he has nowhere near the stability/production that Pau had hence the lowered value. |
Yep....and everybody wanted Pau to stay here on LG, right?!
Also, I take it you know J Hill personally and are privy to his daily habits to make such a claim about his personal life? |
Quote: | So the 27-year-old Hill said he has stopped drinking alcohol, admitting it hurt his efforts on becoming the Lakers’ renewable energy source. Hill said the lifestyle change helped him drop from 253 pounds to 240. |
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20141021/lakers-jordan-hill-envisions-better-season-without-mike-dantoni-and-alcohol/1
He admitted it himself. His party happy ways are also pretty known. But he has put it together, for one season. For his sake hopefully he can continue. |
That's fine to look at his past party days (wasn't denying that), but your post made it sound like he's a ticking time-bomb, waiting to explode as if there have been very recent incidents. |
Dude dropped weight?! Where was it from? His gut? Hill needs to hit the weight room hard. |
I dropped 10 pounds almost immediately once I cut back on going out. If you met me in person even prior to the weight loss, you would've have thought I was skinny. There are a lot of guys with thin frames like that. Doughy body but it's evenly distributed. Carmelo looks lilke that the few times I've seen him on TV without a shirt. Skinny-fat is what I call it. Fortunately, that body type in my experience is easy to get shredded. |
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Hard_Butter Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12223 Location: The Two One Three
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | EchoZulu wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jordan Hill, sadly, is one alcoholic binge away from trouble...he has nowhere near the stability/production that Pau had hence the lowered value. |
Yep....and everybody wanted Pau to stay here on LG, right?!
Also, I take it you know J Hill personally and are privy to his daily habits to make such a claim about his personal life? |
Quote: | So the 27-year-old Hill said he has stopped drinking alcohol, admitting it hurt his efforts on becoming the Lakers’ renewable energy source. Hill said the lifestyle change helped him drop from 253 pounds to 240. |
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20141021/lakers-jordan-hill-envisions-better-season-without-mike-dantoni-and-alcohol/1
He admitted it himself. His party happy ways are also pretty known. But he has put it together, for one season. For his sake hopefully he can continue. |
That's fine to look at his past party days (wasn't denying that), but your post made it sound like he's a ticking time-bomb, waiting to explode as if there have been very recent incidents. |
Dude dropped weight?! Where was it from? His gut? Hill needs to hit the weight room hard. |
I dropped 10 pounds almost immediately once I cut back on going out. If you met me in person even prior to the weight loss, you would've have thought I was skinny. There are a lot of guys with thin frames like that. Doughy body but it's evenly distributed. Carmelo looks lilke that the few times I've seen him on TV without a shirt. Skinny-fat is what I call it. Fortunately, that body type in my experience is easy to get shredded. |
Oh no... I know about skinny-fat. Howard Stern and THIS GUY (That belly tat tho.. ) is a prime example of that. Naturally skinny dudes who don't give a lick about working out. It goes all in the gut. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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at skinny-fat. I'm just fat-fat, but I know exactly what you're talking about. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | LakeShow06 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jordan Hill, sadly, is one alcoholic binge away from trouble...he has nowhere near the stability/production that Pau had hence the lowered value. |
Yep....and everybody wanted Pau to stay here on LG, right?!
Also, I take it you know J Hill personally and are privy to his daily habits to make such a claim about his personal life? |
Quote: | So the 27-year-old Hill said he has stopped drinking alcohol, admitting it hurt his efforts on becoming the Lakers’ renewable energy source. Hill said the lifestyle change helped him drop from 253 pounds to 240. |
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20141021/lakers-jordan-hill-envisions-better-season-without-mike-dantoni-and-alcohol/1
He admitted it himself. His party happy ways are also pretty known. But he has put it together, for one season. For his sake hopefully he can continue. |
That's fine to look at his past party days (wasn't denying that), but your post made it sound like he's a ticking time-bomb, waiting to explode as if there have been very recent incidents. |
Was being facetious actually, but didn't understand why you took it so seriously.
My point is, that what, 6-7 years in all of a sudden he's like, "Damn, I probably should start taking my craft seriously." _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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misterrunon Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 1904
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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the warriors probably need to trade andre iguodala in order to re-sign draymond green. they don't really need AI at this point, since draymond does everything that he can.
would you guys be down with trading jordan hill + 2 2nd rounders for AI? he's not a gamechanger, but a valuable trade chip imo. |
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dmorans1 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2012 Posts: 11669
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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misterrunon wrote: | the warriors probably need to trade andre iguodala in order to re-sign draymond green. they don't really need AI at this point, since draymond does everything that he can.
would you guys be down with trading jordan hill + 2 2nd rounders for AI? he's not a gamechanger, but a valuable trade chip imo. |
They are not making major moves this season. They have a real shot at a ring, why would they break that up? They'll deal with all the FA stuff when the time comes. |
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misterrunon Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 1904
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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dmorans1 wrote: | misterrunon wrote: | the warriors probably need to trade andre iguodala in order to re-sign draymond green. they don't really need AI at this point, since draymond does everything that he can.
would you guys be down with trading jordan hill + 2 2nd rounders for AI? he's not a gamechanger, but a valuable trade chip imo. |
They are not making major moves this season. They have a real shot at a ring, why would they break that up? They'll deal with all the FA stuff when the time comes. |
good point. AI will probably traded in the offseason, but the thing is.. if they don't trade AI before the season ends, they will have to take someone else' salary for the upcoming year (unless they can get a TPE or trade with a team under the cap).
i guess we could option jordan hill in the summer.. if we can't sign anyone in the free agency, then we can absorb AI's contract for 2 2nd rounders.
then we can flip him to the clippers for JJ reddick + 2 first rounders. AI on the clippers might make them actual contenders.. he's just what they need.
or we can package him to memphis for jeff green + memphis first rounder. |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | ISOM wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: |
You don't understand. He's on the perimeter, but his man's in the paint. Why do you think he's always open?
Something similar was going on with the 2013 Suns:
Quote: | One adjustment Hornacek discussed was how when looking at the Suns' dreadful offense in 2013 (Phoenix ranked 29th in points per possession via Basketball-Reference.com), the coaching staff could see that the power forwards were clogged at the elbow, preventing Dragic and the other point guards from attacking. So immediately the staff set to work in moving Markieff Morris, the surprising young star for the team, down low. The result has been better work on the offensive glass, more efficiency from Morris, and more room for Dragic and Bledsoe to create. |
I would add, it's not just the perimeter players that he gets in the way of, but also the roll men. |
And what I'm saying is that Hill has actually been making them pay. He has been scoring from the perimeter at a decent clip for the past couple of weeks now. |
Certain games it's worked. But when he's in, our offense basically lives and dies by his jumper. And with his FG percentage from 16 ft < 3pt line at 38%, it's simply not good enough. When say, David West does it, the defense has to get on him because he's shooting over 49% from the same distance. |
To hammer the point home, Hill has by far the worst impact on our offense this season out of any player by on/off numbers.
When Hill plays, our offensive rating is 98.4 points per 100 possessions. When he sits, its 105.7 points. That -7.3 point differential is -5 points lower than the next worse player. |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Zach Lowe piles on Hill's defense:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-all-star-team-eastern-western-conference/
Quote: | 7. Jordan Hill’s Defense
There aren’t many big men who have been as uninterested on defense this season as Hill. Playing on a hopeless Lakers team could dull anyone’s motivation, and Hill has an incentive to jack up jumpers in what could be a contract year.
Hill has mastered the “rim protection” technique of leaping away from the basket and the opposing player, while at the same time reaching his arm out just in case he happens to get a fingertip on something. It’s classic phony rim protection. |
I haven't noticed this particular move myself, but I'll take Zach's word for it. Yes, Hill's on/off on defense is also the worst on the team. But shhhh... until he's traded. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | Zach Lowe piles on Hill's defense:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-all-star-team-eastern-western-conference/
Quote: | 7. Jordan Hill’s Defense
There aren’t many big men who have been as uninterested on defense this season as Hill. Playing on a hopeless Lakers team could dull anyone’s motivation, and Hill has an incentive to jack up jumpers in what could be a contract year.
Hill has mastered the “rim protection” technique of leaping away from the basket and the opposing player, while at the same time reaching his arm out just in case he happens to get a fingertip on something. It’s classic phony rim protection. |
I haven't noticed this particular move myself, but I'll take Zach's word for it. Yes, Hill's on/off on defense is also the worst on the team. But shhhh... until he's traded. |
Yeah. Hill isn't putting out the effort. He's no longer the energy guy off the bench (better role for him) but rather content at taking 18 foot jumper after 18 foot jumper. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32730
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:56 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | Zach Lowe piles on Hill's defense:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-all-star-team-eastern-western-conference/
Quote: | 7. Jordan Hill’s Defense
There aren’t many big men who have been as uninterested on defense this season as Hill. Playing on a hopeless Lakers team could dull anyone’s motivation, and Hill has an incentive to jack up jumpers in what could be a contract year.
Hill has mastered the “rim protection” technique of leaping away from the basket and the opposing player, while at the same time reaching his arm out just in case he happens to get a fingertip on something. It’s classic phony rim protection. |
I haven't noticed this particular move myself, but I'll take Zach's word for it. Yes, Hill's on/off on defense is also the worst on the team. But shhhh... until he's traded. |
Yeah. Hill isn't putting out the effort. He's no longer the energy guy off the bench (better role for him) but rather content at taking 18 foot jumper after 18 foot jumper. |
Which are reasons why I am skeptical as to the trade value of Hill. It seems the noise around Hill's trade value is emanating from LA, and yet there doesn't seem to be much buzz about him elsewhere in the league. I think he'll yield a second round pick, I just hope the front office finds a buyer and doesn't get greedy by holding out for a first rounder. |
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The Shadow King Star Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2011 Posts: 4363 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:13 am Post subject: |
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I just don't want Hill traded to Cleveland, San Antonio or the Clippers. No way do I want to help any of that scum win a championship. _________________ Lakers, today. Lakers, tomorrow. Lakers, forever. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:23 am Post subject: |
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angrypuppy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | Zach Lowe piles on Hill's defense:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-all-star-team-eastern-western-conference/
Quote: | 7. Jordan Hill’s Defense
There aren’t many big men who have been as uninterested on defense this season as Hill. Playing on a hopeless Lakers team could dull anyone’s motivation, and Hill has an incentive to jack up jumpers in what could be a contract year.
Hill has mastered the “rim protection” technique of leaping away from the basket and the opposing player, while at the same time reaching his arm out just in case he happens to get a fingertip on something. It’s classic phony rim protection. |
I haven't noticed this particular move myself, but I'll take Zach's word for it. Yes, Hill's on/off on defense is also the worst on the team. But shhhh... until he's traded. |
Yeah. Hill isn't putting out the effort. He's no longer the energy guy off the bench (better role for him) but rather content at taking 18 foot jumper after 18 foot jumper. |
Which are reasons why I am skeptical as to the trade value of Hill. It seems the noise around Hill's trade value is emanating from LA, and yet there doesn't seem to be much buzz about him elsewhere in the league. I think he'll yield a second round pick, I just hope the front office finds a buyer and doesn't get greedy by holding out for a first rounder. |
Especially when trading for him likely means you have to pick up that 2nd year at $9m. I don't think he's worth that at all. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28422 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | angrypuppy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | Zach Lowe piles on Hill's defense:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-all-star-team-eastern-western-conference/
Quote: | 7. Jordan Hill’s Defense
There aren’t many big men who have been as uninterested on defense this season as Hill. Playing on a hopeless Lakers team could dull anyone’s motivation, and Hill has an incentive to jack up jumpers in what could be a contract year.
Hill has mastered the “rim protection” technique of leaping away from the basket and the opposing player, while at the same time reaching his arm out just in case he happens to get a fingertip on something. It’s classic phony rim protection. |
I haven't noticed this particular move myself, but I'll take Zach's word for it. Yes, Hill's on/off on defense is also the worst on the team. But shhhh... until he's traded. |
Yeah. Hill isn't putting out the effort. He's no longer the energy guy off the bench (better role for him) but rather content at taking 18 foot jumper after 18 foot jumper. |
Which are reasons why I am skeptical as to the trade value of Hill. It seems the noise around Hill's trade value is emanating from LA, and yet there doesn't seem to be much buzz about him elsewhere in the league. I think he'll yield a second round pick, I just hope the front office finds a buyer and doesn't get greedy by holding out for a first rounder. |
Especially when trading for him likely means you have to pick up that 2nd year at $9m. I don't think he's worth that at all. |
Reggie Miller thinks Hill is worth something. Then again, he's Reggie Miller. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
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The Faceman wrote: | I just don't want Hill traded to Cleveland, San Antonio or the Clippers. No way do I want to help any of that scum win a championship. |
We should be in asset-gathering mode and not factor these in our equation. Except for the Celtics. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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gus26 Star Player
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 3099 Location: Colton
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:17 am Post subject: |
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still envision hill going to okc...
perkins and jackson for hill and ellington... |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:52 am Post subject: |
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gus26 wrote: | still envision hill going to okc...
perkins and jackson for hill and ellington... |
I can live with that. Nothing but expiring contracts coming in to the Lakers, at worse.
What package was Denver offering to OKC? The picks they got from Clev.? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31930 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:54 am Post subject: |
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As long as we waive Perkins right away _________________ Kobe |
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