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Don Draper
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 Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | Okafor is basically Duncan on offense with even better footwork. Keep in mind Duncan stayed at Wake Forest all 4 years. If he has the drive and work-ethic, he will be good defensively. He has the size, wingspan, and footwork to be good.
Towns is a bigger version of Horford. He has solid touch around the basket with a basic post-game that is effective against smaller players. He has a nice shooting touch but hasn't shown it much in games yet aside from FT shooting. Versatile defensively but not the most explosive athlete. |
I'll take Duncan on offense. Okafor will provide enough defense by just waving his mitts around. |
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NastyNas_87
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Based on yesterday's posts, I think more people want Okafor now |
count me in this camp. I was a big KAT guys at first. But the more I've watched Jahlil, the more I see how good he can be. I wouldn't mind having the next Tim Duncan fall to us at #2. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Bol wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | Do the Lakers have the guts to take D'Angelo Russell? Big men seem to be more boom/busts, and the game really is about guards nowadays and guys with the ball in their hands - not big days.
I dont see either Towns or Okafor being surefire great players. Neither are Anthony Davis skill wise, and athletically they are both limited. Okafor if he works reminds me of a young Tim Duncan. But Towns, I just dont know. I wasnt that impressed with him at Kentucky. Even if he turns out as good as Damarcus Cousins - i'd still rather have a great perimeter player than a Cousins. |
Since 2000, these are the #1 draft picks that were centers...
2001-Kwame Brown
2002-Yao Ming
2004-Dwight Howard
2005-Andrew Bogut
2006-Greg Oden
20012-Anthony Davis
Out of those 6, 3 are out of the league, 2 are gone because of injuries, and only 1 I would build my team around right now (Anthony Davis). I don't think Okafor or Towns are as good as Davis coming out of college and both of them have way more holes in their game. |
Kwame was just a horrible pick by someone with a demonstrated inability to judge talent (Jordan). He also came right out of high school, probably would've revealed his weaknesses if he played a year in college. Aside from him, the other guys were all beasts if not for injury. It's safe to say Okafor and Towns are not Kwames. |
Kwame was trhe best player of Chandler and Curry. Curry couldn't stay in shape. Chandler was allowed to develop. MJ broke Kwame mentally.
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epak
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Can someone explain why JO's ft% was so bad? |
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NastyNas_87
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | The Los Angeles Lakers may be on the verge of making a mammoth mistake come June. They are about to pass up the best backcourt player in college basketball for a big man with more holes in his game than swiss cheese.
D'Angelo Russell - a 6'5 PG and the only player to average 20pts, 5rbs, 5asts in the country. All while shooting 48% from the field, 41% from 3pt line with elite level floor vision both in transition and halfcourt. And, he just turned 19 in February.
Lets review Okafor's shortcomings:
- Atrocious free throw shooter
- Atrocious defense (one of the absolute worst defenders in college basketball)
- Poor shot blocking (for his height).
- Poor defensive rebounding
- Poor shooting range (compared to other big men like Towns, Kaminsky, etc)
- Lacks athleticism and quickness (recovery speed is non-existent)
- Plays "below the rim" (similar to Julius Randle)
Jahlil's strengths:
- High IQ... intelligent player
- A big man with the most polished offensive post play to come out of college in several years.
If Okafor's offense is not working on any given night, he is a liability on the court because his defense is lost. Plus, you can't have him on the floor at the end of games because of his A) poor free throws and B) inability to protect the rim. Add onto the fact that drafting Okafor would mean a front court with two "below the rim" players (Jahlil and Randle).
Jahlil Okafor is the biggest risk of the draft because his overall game is less than mediocre.
If Minnesota screws up and drafts Okafor, the Lakers need to sprint to the podium and select Towns. If the Timberwolves select Towns (as expected), the Lakers need to give serious consideration on selecting a floor leader with sensational all around ability instead of a one-dimensional "below the rim" scorer who couldn't defend anyone (let alone anchor a defense).
There are many more quality free agent Cs than there are PGs or SFs. If the Lakers can sign a Gasol / Jordan / Hibbert / Lopez / Chandler... picking up Russell (best backcourt player in the entire draft) should become the Lakers pick. |
1. I don't know how bad Okafor was at defense considering he anchored a team that won the national title.
2. Its funny that you highlight Okafor's issues with individual defense and being a below the rim player and ignore the fact that the same is true for Russell. He's also not a great athlete and is considered a question mark on defense.
given the choice of a big who lacks elite athleticism and a guard who lacks elite athleticism, gimme the big. |
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lakerglory
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Jahlil Okafor will be the next franchise player to take the Lakers to the promise land. I have a feeling he'll be Duncan 2.0 |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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I tend to agree that Russell should be the pick.
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Inverse
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| It's funny how everyone is coming around to Okafor. It was bound to happen. The scary thing is I think Minnesota will too, if they haven't already. |
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NastyNas_87
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Can someone explain why JO's ft% was so bad? |
huge hands.
same reason Shaq, Rajon Rondo, and other bigs struggle with free throws. now there are some guys with huge hands like Kawhi Leonard and Giannis that can get into the 70s and 80s so they're either outliers or maybe its more than huge hands that lead to low ft%. |
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exempt
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Inverse wrote: | | It's funny how everyone is coming around to Okafor. It was bound to happen. The scary thing is I think Minnesota will too, if they haven't already. |
Yeah, even some of the wolve fans are changing their position on Okafor. People are starting to watch video, instead of reading draft analysis. His low post skills could be elite which should leave a GM salivating in potential future if he able to improve on other facets of the game. Towns is a beast too, his all around game already may make the wolves management more comfortable, but I'm sure they are tempted to with Okafor skill set |
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governator
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Bol wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | Do the Lakers have the guts to take D'Angelo Russell? Big men seem to be more boom/busts, and the game really is about guards nowadays and guys with the ball in their hands - not big days.
I dont see either Towns or Okafor being surefire great players. Neither are Anthony Davis skill wise, and athletically they are both limited. Okafor if he works reminds me of a young Tim Duncan. But Towns, I just dont know. I wasnt that impressed with him at Kentucky. Even if he turns out as good as Damarcus Cousins - i'd still rather have a great perimeter player than a Cousins. |
Since 2000, these are the #1 draft picks that were centers...
2001-Kwame Brown
2002-Yao Ming
2004-Dwight Howard
2005-Andrew Bogut
2006-Greg Oden
20012-Anthony Davis
Out of those 6, 3 are out of the league, 2 are gone because of injuries, and only 1 I would build my team around right now (Anthony Davis). I don't think Okafor or Towns are as good as Davis coming out of college and both of them have way more holes in their game. |
Kwame was just a horrible pick by someone with a demonstrated inability to judge talent (Jordan). He also came right out of high school, probably would've revealed his weaknesses if he played a year in college. Aside from him, the other guys were all beasts if not for injury. It's safe to say Okafor and Towns are not Kwames. |
Kwame was trhe best player of Chandler and Curry. Curry couldn't stay in shape. Chandler was allowed to develop. MJ broke Kwame mentally. |
Kwame was a bust as a #1 pick... decent back up C actually
D12, Yao, Bogut, A.Davis... all legit draft. D12/Davis no question. Yao pre career ending injury was top 1-2 C in the league along with D12. Bogut is still top 10 active C in the league to date.
Oden... bad pick/luck
All of the picks, looks like the FO did their homework |
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HumanVictoryCigar
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:56 am Post subject: |
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LOLOLOL! now people are "worried" about Okafor's free throw shooting? Oh! he'll never get better, he's peaked...  |
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lakerglory
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Reports coming out saying Okafor's camp will ask T-Wolves not to draft him as he's got his heart on the Lakers. Even if they don't, there are ways for players to send a message they won't go to a specific team ala Julius Randle last year to the Celtics. I think Okafor is more marketable than Town's thus whomever he signs an endorsement deal Nike, Adidas or Under Armour will have some say where he plays. LAL>>>>MIN |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | | LOLOLOL! now people are "worried" about Okafor's free throw shooting? Oh! he'll never get better, he's peaked... |
I for one would like to know why it was so low. Ft% is a good indicator to how much range he has. And more range means more weapons. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| NastyNas_87 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Can someone explain why JO's ft% was so bad? |
huge hands.
same reason Shaq, Rajon Rondo, and other bigs struggle with free throws. now there are some guys with huge hands like Kawhi Leonard and Giannis that can get into the 70s and 80s so they're either outliers or maybe its more than huge hands that lead to low ft%. |
good point |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Kwame was a bust as a #1 pick... decent back up C actually |
Kwame had a mid-range jumpshot, a straight-line drive, and beat Chandler in workouts. Curry was more of a risk because of his weight and perceived work ethic. The Wizards were not a good play for Kwame to develop. They wanted a franchise player, and he needed time to get there. They didn't give time.
| Quote: | | Oden... bad pick/luck |
Understand issues about running gait, but a guy who killed it in the combine, shot his FTs left handed during the tournament at a decent percentage, and played defense like Karl Towns? That's not a bad pick.
All of the picks, looks like the FO did their homework
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BennyLava
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | | LOLOLOL! now people are "worried" about Okafor's free throw shooting? Oh! he'll never get better, he's peaked... |
if we had the 4th pick, everyone would be wishing they could get Okafor. Its all a matter of perception. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | | LOLOLOL! now people are "worried" about Okafor's free throw shooting? Oh! he'll never get better, he's peaked... |
I for one would like to know why it was so low. Ft% is a good indicator to how much range he has. And more range means more weapons. |
Might be a good indicator sometimes but Okafor has a solid midrange bank shot jumper
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Spirit
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| NastyNas_87 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Can someone explain why JO's ft% was so bad? |
huge hands.
same reason Shaq, Rajon Rondo, and other bigs struggle with free throws. now there are some guys with huge hands like Kawhi Leonard and Giannis that can get into the 70s and 80s so they're either outliers or maybe its more than huge hands that lead to low ft%. |
It's more than that. Huge hands shouldn't be an excuse for poor mechanics (stance, balance, shot pocket, follow through, etc.). Jordan and Dr. J had large hands. So does Dwayne Wade. None of them had or has much trouble shooting a good percentage from the charity stripe. |
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exempt
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Okafor has a nice touch around the rim. I seen him use the soft Tim Duncan bank shot from mid range. I see no issue in him improving his free throw shooting unlike other bigs who have no touch at all |
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lakerglory
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Spirit wrote: | | NastyNas_87 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Can someone explain why JO's ft% was so bad? |
huge hands.
same reason Shaq, Rajon Rondo, and other bigs struggle with free throws. now there are some guys with huge hands like Kawhi Leonard and Giannis that can get into the 70s and 80s so they're either outliers or maybe its more than huge hands that lead to low ft%. |
It's more than that. Huge hands shouldn't be an excuse for poor mechanics (stance, balance, shot pocket, follow through, etc.). Jordan and Dr. J had large hands. So does Dwayne Wade. None of them had or has much trouble shooting a good percentage from the charity stripe. |
Tim Duncan had the same problem with his free throw shooting tough. I think is all about practice and mechanics. Lakers just need to hire the best free throw shooter ever in Steve Nash to work with him and he'll be good. |
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jwbrown77
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Tim Duncan averaged 14.7 rebounds and 3.3 blocks per game in his last year of college. Jahlil Okafor averaged 8.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game.
Can we please stop with the Tim Duncan comparisons?
And yes, I realize Duncan was a senior and Okafor a freshman. But the fact remains Duncan was committed to defense and rebounding, and I don't see that commitment here.
All that said, yes, I'd be thrilled with Okafor, because I see lots of offensive potential, but the Duncan comparisons are either disrespectful to Duncan or lack historical perspective. |
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Mini Mamba
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: | Tim Duncan averaged 14.7 rebounds and 3.3 blocks per game in his last year of college. Jahlil Okafor averaged 8.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game.
Can we please stop with the Tim Duncan comparisons?
And yes, I realize Duncan was a senior and Okafor a freshman. But the fact remains Duncan was committed to defense and rebounding, and I don't see that commitment here.
All that said, yes, I'd be thrilled with Okafor, because I see lots of offensive potential, but the Duncan comparisons are either disrespectful to Duncan or lack historical perspective. |
What were Duncan's stats as a freshman? |
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governator
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | Kwame was a bust as a #1 pick... decent back up C actually |
Kwame had a mid-range jumpshot, a straight-line drive, and beat Chandler in workouts. Curry was more of a risk because of his weight and perceived work ethic. The Wizards were not a good play for Kwame to develop. They wanted a franchise player, and he needed time to get there. They didn't give time.
| Quote: | | Oden... bad pick/luck |
Understand issues about running gait, but a guy who killed it in the combine, shot his FTs left handed during the tournament at a decent percentage, and played defense like Karl Towns? That's not a bad pick.
All of the picks, looks like the FO did their homework |
Agreed. I think without knowing about future injury/future mental development growth damage by MJ... you had to grab Oden and Kwame as #1 if you're the FO.
D12 over Okafor and Yao over everybody, I thought, was a gutsy gamble (great scouting) |
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: | Tim Duncan averaged 14.7 rebounds and 3.3 blocks per game in his last year of college. Jahlil Okafor averaged 8.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game.
Can we please stop with the Tim Duncan comparisons?
And yes, I realize Duncan was a senior and Okafor a freshman. But the fact remains Duncan was committed to defense and rebounding, and I don't see that commitment here.
All that said, yes, I'd be thrilled with Okafor, because I see lots of offensive potential, but the Duncan comparisons are either disrespectful to Duncan or lack historical perspective. |
How can you realize Duncan was a senior and yet still post that then? What a terrible comparison. Do you really believe Okafor's stats if he stayed 4 years at Duke wouldn't improve with age?
Please.
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