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jwbrown77
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 Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Mini Mamba wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | Tim Duncan averaged 14.7 rebounds and 3.3 blocks per game in his last year of college. Jahlil Okafor averaged 8.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game.
Can we please stop with the Tim Duncan comparisons?
And yes, I realize Duncan was a senior and Okafor a freshman. But the fact remains Duncan was committed to defense and rebounding, and I don't see that commitment here.
All that said, yes, I'd be thrilled with Okafor, because I see lots of offensive potential, but the Duncan comparisons are either disrespectful to Duncan or lack historical perspective. |
What were Duncan's stats as a freshman? |
9.6 rpg and 3.8 bpg, and he only started playing basketball as a 9th grader.
Basketball is played on both ends of the court. |
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lakerglory
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Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: | Tim Duncan averaged 14.7 rebounds and 3.3 blocks per game in his last year of college. Jahlil Okafor averaged 8.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game.
Can we please stop with the Tim Duncan comparisons?
And yes, I realize Duncan was a senior and Okafor a freshman. But the fact remains Duncan was committed to defense and rebounding, and I don't see that commitment here.
All that said, yes, I'd be thrilled with Okafor, because I see lots of offensive potential, but the Duncan comparisons are either disrespectful to Duncan or lack historical perspective. |
When you have an NBA coach and front office executive in (Flip Saunders) comparing the two players above there is something to it. I think he would know more than all of us posters on LG  |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| exempt wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | exempt wrote: | | Should be in great position to land a star after next season. Drafting a inside presence in Towns or Okafor, it would be very appealing for a KD etcc, who has never played with a real low post player |
They have Kanter fyi. |
information I didn't need. hence the word real |
Actually information you do need. Kanter is a good post player, not great. 0.89 PPP for post ups, better than Cousins, Vucevic, Gortat, Hibbert, Davis, Kobe, Harden, Lebron, Duncan, Howard....although Ibaka was actually even better than Kanter at 0.94 PPP. They're both better than Durant in the post too.
Posting up Kanter, while not a great option, isn't a terrible one either. And if you're expecting Okafor or Towns to have better efficiency in the post than any of Duncan, Davis, etc., I think you will be sorely disappointed... |
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
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By the way, Tim Duncan was 9.8 ppg and 9.6 rpg as a Frosh. To compare apples to apples.
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jwbrown77
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| GonzagaAlum wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | Tim Duncan averaged 14.7 rebounds and 3.3 blocks per game in his last year of college. Jahlil Okafor averaged 8.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game.
Can we please stop with the Tim Duncan comparisons?
And yes, I realize Duncan was a senior and Okafor a freshman. But the fact remains Duncan was committed to defense and rebounding, and I don't see that commitment here.
All that said, yes, I'd be thrilled with Okafor, because I see lots of offensive potential, but the Duncan comparisons are either disrespectful to Duncan or lack historical perspective. |
How can you realize Duncan was a senior and yet still post that then? What a terrible comparison. Do you really believe Okafor's stats if he stayed 4 years at Duke wouldn't improve with age?
Please. |
Then use his freshman stats.
9.6 rpg and 3.8 bpg on 55% fg while having played basketball for a few years. |
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HumanVictoryCigar
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Joined: 28 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | | LOLOLOL! now people are "worried" about Okafor's free throw shooting? Oh! he'll never get better, he's peaked... |
I for one would like to know why it was so low. Ft% is a good indicator to how much range he has. And more range means more weapons. |
Tim Duncan and Blake Griffin never had to work on their free throw shooting either...
Look, there's an extremely tiny percentage of guys who have a mental block with free throw shooting, Shaq, DeAndre, you could even put Rodman in there but I just don't think he cared enough about free throw shooting to try and improve in that area. Everybody else can develop a technique, which I'm sure the Lakers staff will be thrilled to work with Jahlil on. You can pick holes in any player for anything.
As far as Towns, I can't put my finger on it but I think one of the things that's bothering me is whether or not he has that killer instinct. I'm not talking about one-off's, where he gets mad and THEN gets motivated. Jahlil, I've seen it, I know what it looks like, I just haven't seen it with Towns yet. Maybe he has it? but that's my bugaboo with Towns right now. There's a tiny hole I could pick right there with Towns so... |
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Spirit
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Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 1781
Location: Somewhere in the Pacific
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| lakerglory wrote: | | Spirit wrote: | | NastyNas_87 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Can someone explain why JO's ft% was so bad? |
huge hands.
same reason Shaq, Rajon Rondo, and other bigs struggle with free throws. now there are some guys with huge hands like Kawhi Leonard and Giannis that can get into the 70s and 80s so they're either outliers or maybe its more than huge hands that lead to low ft%. |
It's more than that. Huge hands shouldn't be an excuse for poor mechanics (stance, balance, shot pocket, follow through, etc.). Jordan and Dr. J had large hands. So does Dwayne Wade. None of them had or has much trouble shooting a good percentage from the charity stripe. |
Tim Duncan had the same problem with his free throw shooting tough. I think is all about practice and mechanics. Lakers just need to hire the best free throw shooter ever in Steve Nash to work with him and he'll be good. |
In many ways, Duncan continues to be inconsistent from the free throw line. He's much better than he was earlier in his career, but his percentages have varied greatly -- maybe more so than any other player in recent NBA history. IMO, Duncan's FT issues have much to do with the speed and trajectory of his shot. |
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: |
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It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Kwame was trhe best player of Chandler and Curry. Curry couldn't stay in shape. Chandler was allowed to develop. MJ broke Kwame mentally. |
Not to mention a big part of the decision there was a one on one scrimmage between Kwame and Chandler where Kwame apparently destroyed Chandler and then promised Jordan that if he took him #1 he wouldn't be disappointed. Kwame had talent, just bad hands and a weak will. |
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frenchbullcho
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | Tim Duncan averaged 14.7 rebounds and 3.3 blocks per game in his last year of college. Jahlil Okafor averaged 8.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game.
Can we please stop with the Tim Duncan comparisons?
And yes, I realize Duncan was a senior and Okafor a freshman. But the fact remains Duncan was committed to defense and rebounding, and I don't see that commitment here.
All that said, yes, I'd be thrilled with Okafor, because I see lots of offensive potential, but the Duncan comparisons are either disrespectful to Duncan or lack historical perspective. |
How can you realize Duncan was a senior and yet still post that then? What a terrible comparison. Do you really believe Okafor's stats if he stayed 4 years at Duke wouldn't improve with age?
Please. |
Then use his freshman stats.
9.6 rpg and 3.8 bpg on 55% fg while having played basketball for a few years. |
That agenda. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Mini Mamba wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | Tim Duncan averaged 14.7 rebounds and 3.3 blocks per game in his last year of college. Jahlil Okafor averaged 8.5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game.
Can we please stop with the Tim Duncan comparisons?
And yes, I realize Duncan was a senior and Okafor a freshman. But the fact remains Duncan was committed to defense and rebounding, and I don't see that commitment here.
All that said, yes, I'd be thrilled with Okafor, because I see lots of offensive potential, but the Duncan comparisons are either disrespectful to Duncan or lack historical perspective. |
What were Duncan's stats as a freshman? |
9.6rbs and 3.8blks  |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: |
Then use his freshman stats.
9.6 rpg and 3.8 bpg on 55% fg while having played basketball for a few years. |
So we're nitpicking over 1 rpg and assuming that blocks are the only measure of defense? |
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jwbrown77
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| GonzagaAlum wrote: | It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40 |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40 |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
The fact that his offensive game is already at levels Tim Duncan couldn't reach in 4 years of college, shows a WORK ethic. That doesn't just magically happen. He didn't wake up one day and all of a sudden was able to break down double teams.
Offensively he showed beyond even a Tim Duncan in college as a freshman. What do you think, given 3 years with Lakers coaching his defense could blossom into? Because your question should be, in 3 years of NBA coaching will his defense still be stagnant? I doubt it.
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How can I get a copy of a Laker game played on Sunday, March 11, 2001 Sonics/Lakers? If you know PM me please
I would be willing to pay you for it. |
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lakerglory
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008
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Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40 |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
Neither Marc Gasol coming out of college, he was just named all defense team.
Look, defense is something that can be worked on as you enter the NBA. Is Okafor a defensive presence no! the point is he can and will work on it unless he refuses to do it. |
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| lakerglory wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40 |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
Neither Marc Gasol coming out of college, he was just named all defense team.
Look, defense is something that can be worked on as you enter the NBA. Is Okafor a defensive presence no! the point is he can and will work on it unless he refuses to do it. |
Good point. Marc's defense was so bad he fell into the 2nd round!
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How can I get a copy of a Laker game played on Sunday, March 11, 2001 Sonics/Lakers? If you know PM me please
I would be willing to pay you for it. |
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jwbrown77
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Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 3271
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| GonzagaAlum wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40 |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
The fact that his offensive game is already at levels Tim Duncan couldn't reach in 4 years of college, shows a WORK ethic. That doesn't just magically happen. He didn't wake up one day and all of a sudden was able to break down double teams.
Offensively he showed beyond even a Tim Duncan in college as a freshman. What do you think, given 3 years with Lakers coaching his defense could blossom into? Because your question should be, in 3 years of NBA coaching will his defense still be stagnant? I doubt it. |
Anything outside of size and athleticism can be taught. Defense can be taught. Offense can be taught.
Giving a (bleep), in my experience, can't be taught. He either cares enough to play defense and rebound, or he doesn't. And he certainly has the size to do both.
Duncan always showed he cared to do those things, from day one.
And once again, I'm not doubting Okafor's offensive potential. |
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RG73
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
Yet he has a 95 DRtg.... |
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| GonzagaAlum wrote: | | By the way, Tim Duncan was 9.8 ppg and 9.6 rpg as a Frosh. To compare apples to apples. |
Adding to that some other HoF centers and their freshman stats:
David Robinson: 7.6 points, 4.6 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 1.3 blocks
Olajuwon: 8.3 points, 6.2 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 2.4 blocks
Shaq: 13.9 points, 12.0 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 3.6 blocks
Mourning: 13.1 points, 7.3 rebounds, 0.7 assists, 4.9 blocks
Ewing: 12.7 points, 7.5 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 3.2 blocks
Mutumbo: 3.9 points, 3.3 rebounds, 0.2 assists, 2.3 blocks |
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | | By the way, Tim Duncan was 9.8 ppg and 9.6 rpg as a Frosh. To compare apples to apples. |
Adding to that some other HoF centers and their freshman stats:
David Robinson: 7.6 points, 4.6 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 1.3 blocks
Olajuwon: 8.3 points, 6.2 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 2.4 blocks
Shaq: 13.9 points, 12.0 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 3.6 blocks
Mourning: 13.1 points, 7.3 rebounds, 0.7 assists, 4.9 blocks
Ewing: 12.7 points, 7.5 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 3.2 blocks
Mutumbo: 3.9 points, 3.3 rebounds, 0.2 assists, 2.3 blocks |
That Mutumbo fella is terrible, and who is this David Robinson bum who can't get numbers playing for Navy?
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How can I get a copy of a Laker game played on Sunday, March 11, 2001 Sonics/Lakers? If you know PM me please
I would be willing to pay you for it. |
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HumanVictoryCigar
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Joined: 28 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40 |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
The fact that his offensive game is already at levels Tim Duncan couldn't reach in 4 years of college, shows a WORK ethic. That doesn't just magically happen. He didn't wake up one day and all of a sudden was able to break down double teams.
Offensively he showed beyond even a Tim Duncan in college as a freshman. What do you think, given 3 years with Lakers coaching his defense could blossom into? Because your question should be, in 3 years of NBA coaching will his defense still be stagnant? I doubt it. |
Anything outside of size and athleticism can be taught. Defense can be taught. Offense can be taught.
Giving a (bleep), in my experience, can't be taught. He either cares enough to play defense and rebound, or he doesn't. And he certainly has the size to do both.
Duncan always showed he cared to do those things, from day one.
And once again, I'm not doubting Okafor's offensive potential. |
I just find that argument baffling... Okafor doesn't care? That's a real reach... he's been working out like a mofo since his season ended, getting ready for the draft but, I guess he's not motivated and doesn't care? and since he doesn't care about defense, he'll never improve? again, baffling... |
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jwbrown77
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Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 3271
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | | By the way, Tim Duncan was 9.8 ppg and 9.6 rpg as a Frosh. To compare apples to apples. |
Adding to that some other HoF centers and their freshman stats:
David Robinson: 7.6 points, 4.6 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 1.3 blocks
Olajuwon: 8.3 points, 6.2 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 2.4 blocks
Shaq: 13.9 points, 12.0 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 3.6 blocks
Mourning: 13.1 points, 7.3 rebounds, 0.7 assists, 4.9 blocks
Ewing: 12.7 points, 7.5 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 3.2 blocks
Mutumbo: 3.9 points, 3.3 rebounds, 0.2 assists, 2.3 blocks |
Thanks for posting. Some interesting numbers. |
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jwbrown77
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40 |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
The fact that his offensive game is already at levels Tim Duncan couldn't reach in 4 years of college, shows a WORK ethic. That doesn't just magically happen. He didn't wake up one day and all of a sudden was able to break down double teams.
Offensively he showed beyond even a Tim Duncan in college as a freshman. What do you think, given 3 years with Lakers coaching his defense could blossom into? Because your question should be, in 3 years of NBA coaching will his defense still be stagnant? I doubt it. |
Anything outside of size and athleticism can be taught. Defense can be taught. Offense can be taught.
Giving a (bleep), in my experience, can't be taught. He either cares enough to play defense and rebound, or he doesn't. And he certainly has the size to do both.
Duncan always showed he cared to do those things, from day one.
And once again, I'm not doubting Okafor's offensive potential. |
I just find that argument baffling... Okafor doesn't care? That's a real reach... he's been working out like a mofo since his season ended, getting ready for the draft but, I guess he's not motivated and doesn't care? and since he doesn't care about defense, he'll never improve? again, baffling... |
Perhaps saying he'll never care is an overreach. There's certainly a chance he'll turn it around as a pro.
But, would anyone claim he was a dominate defensive player or rebounder as a college freshman? If not, why are we comparing him to Duncan who always showed promise on both ends, and finally put the offensive side together by the time he graduated? |
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Bol
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | Okafor is basically Duncan on offense with even better footwork. Keep in mind Duncan stayed at Wake Forest all 4 years. If he has the drive and work-ethic, he will be good defensively. He has the size, wingspan, and footwork to be good.
Towns is a bigger version of Horford. He has solid touch around the basket with a basic post-game that is effective against smaller players. He has a nice shooting touch but hasn't shown it much in games yet aside from FT shooting. Versatile defensively but not the most explosive athlete. |
I'll take Duncan on offense. Okafor will provide enough defense by just waving his mitts around. |
Exactly. Duncan with average instead of elite defense is still a damn good player. If it weren't for the defensive shortcomings, Okafor would be a no-brainer at #1 anyway, so we would never even have a shot at him. |
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lakerglory
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Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | | jwbrown77 wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | It should be noted as well... Okafor as a freshman per 40 minutes... ppg average 23ppg.
Tim Duncan never averaged that much. His best season (his senior) it was 20.8ppg for 40 |
Nobody that I know of doubts Okafor's offensive potential, certainly not me. I think averaging less than 20ppg as a pro is a long shot.
But if you want to pick NBA centers to compare to, pick centers that don't show much interest in defense or rebounding, because I don't see where Okafor cares about those things. |
The fact that his offensive game is already at levels Tim Duncan couldn't reach in 4 years of college, shows a WORK ethic. That doesn't just magically happen. He didn't wake up one day and all of a sudden was able to break down double teams.
Offensively he showed beyond even a Tim Duncan in college as a freshman. What do you think, given 3 years with Lakers coaching his defense could blossom into? Because your question should be, in 3 years of NBA coaching will his defense still be stagnant? I doubt it. |
Anything outside of size and athleticism can be taught. Defense can be taught. Offense can be taught.
Giving a (bleep), in my experience, can't be taught. He either cares enough to play defense and rebound, or he doesn't. And he certainly has the size to do both.
Duncan always showed he cared to do those things, from day one.
And once again, I'm not doubting Okafor's offensive potential. |
I just find that argument baffling... Okafor doesn't care? That's a real reach... he's been working out like a mofo since his season ended, getting ready for the draft but, I guess he's not motivated and doesn't care? and since he doesn't care about defense, he'll never improve? again, baffling... |
The potential is there with Okafor, it will work itself out when the time comes. |
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