***OFFICIAL LAKERS 2015 NBA DRAFT THREAD*** (No. 2 Russell, No. 27 Nance, No. 34 Brown: p.1661 - Upshaw signed for SL)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:40 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
pio2u wrote:
SemperMalum wrote:
If he's available with the Houston pick, I'd say do it. He's a great scorer, could easily be a 6th man off the bench stretch 5.


Unfortunately Kaminsky will be long gone by the time the Houston pick comes around.


Hope Clarkson drops multiple 20+ point games with 50+ FG%.
If so, trade him for the difference (Clarkson + Houston pick for lower lotto pick).


If Clarkson is doing that why would you want to trade a more established player for a possible project one (while also giving up another pick)? Clarkson is house money and the fact he's potentially locked into a cheap deal for the next few years is a plus.


Gotta give an asset to receive an asset.

We need a PG. And we need a center with height, bball iq, and floor spacing ability to complement Randle's slashing (kaminsky).

I'd rather cash in on Clarkson as an asset.


And who at the end of the lottery is better than Clarkson + Houston pick? I don't see it. I don't think Kaminsky is that. I think he will be a solid NBA player who plays 10 years, but as a bench reserve.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:41 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, I don't doubt Mudiay has physical skills. But when comparing him to Wall, is it modern day Wall or when he was in college?

I'm just curious about how he adapts to the NBA with a terrible jumper. Things we will see if we have a top 5 pick and work him out. I'm def not writing him off, just waiting to see him up close.


That is where skill level and coaching will render him impotent in the NBA. Coaches can scheme to keep him on the perimeter and he will be ineffective if he can't shoot. Unless he is lucky enough to go to a team with some top offensive options who will take some defensive pressure off of him. But those types of teams usually aren't in the lottery.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, I don't doubt Mudiay has physical skills. But when comparing him to Wall, is it modern day Wall or when he was in college?

I'm just curious about how he adapts to the NBA with a terrible jumper. Things we will see if we have a top 5 pick and work him out. I'm def not writing him off, just waiting to see him up close.


That is where skill level and coaching will render him impotent in the NBA. Coaches can scheme to keep him on the perimeter and he will be ineffective if he can't shoot. Unless he is lucky enough to go to a team with some top offensive options who will take some defensive pressure off of him. But those types of teams usually aren't in the lottery.


This is the problem I'm seeing with a player like Elfrid Payton. He's quick, strong and physical, but can't shoot. And it's really hurting his team. Now, can he improve his shot? Sure. But it's admittedly a major work in progress. These guys have succeeded for years at a lower level (high school, college) with these deficiencies but can't hide in today's NBA.

Rondo is another example but he was also surrounded by 3 HOF players and an excellent bench. His deficiencies hurt the team but he contributed in other ways. I just remember Kobe giving him 8 feet and daring him to shoot. Classic Kobe Jedi-mind tricks.
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lukewaltonsdad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject:

Yet, we see a team like Philly want to rid themselves of a guy like MCW who can't shoot nor hasn't improved since he's been in the league.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:52 am    Post subject:

I'd stay away from Mudiay, his FT% alone scares me. Rather take a gamble on WCS or the euros.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:56 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
pio2u wrote:
SemperMalum wrote:
If he's available with the Houston pick, I'd say do it. He's a great scorer, could easily be a 6th man off the bench stretch 5.


Unfortunately Kaminsky will be long gone by the time the Houston pick comes around.


Hope Clarkson drops multiple 20+ point games with 50+ FG%.
If so, trade him for the difference (Clarkson + Houston pick for lower lotto pick).


If Clarkson is doing that why would you want to trade a more established player for a possible project one (while also giving up another pick)? Clarkson is house money and the fact he's potentially locked into a cheap deal for the next few years is a plus.


Gotta give an asset to receive an asset.

We need a PG. And we need a center with height, bball iq, and floor spacing ability to complement Randle's slashing (kaminsky).

I'd rather cash in on Clarkson as an asset.


And who at the end of the lottery is better than Clarkson + Houston pick? I don't see it. I don't think Kaminsky is that. I think he will be a solid NBA player who plays 10 years, but as a bench reserve.


I would start Kaminsky at Center for us year 1.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
pio2u wrote:
SemperMalum wrote:
If he's available with the Houston pick, I'd say do it. He's a great scorer, could easily be a 6th man off the bench stretch 5.


Unfortunately Kaminsky will be long gone by the time the Houston pick comes around.


Hope Clarkson drops multiple 20+ point games with 50+ FG%.
If so, trade him for the difference (Clarkson + Houston pick for lower lotto pick).


If Clarkson is doing that why would you want to trade a more established player for a possible project one (while also giving up another pick)? Clarkson is house money and the fact he's potentially locked into a cheap deal for the next few years is a plus.


Gotta give an asset to receive an asset.

We need a PG. And we need a center with height, bball iq, and floor spacing ability to complement Randle's slashing (kaminsky).

I'd rather cash in on Clarkson as an asset.


And who at the end of the lottery is better than Clarkson + Houston pick? I don't see it. I don't think Kaminsky is that. I think he will be a solid NBA player who plays 10 years, but as a bench reserve.


I would start Kaminsky at Center for us year 1.


That doesn't mean much compared to our current starter Sacre.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:08 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, I don't doubt Mudiay has physical skills. But when comparing him to Wall, is it modern day Wall or when he was in college?

I'm just curious about how he adapts to the NBA with a terrible jumper. Things we will see if we have a top 5 pick and work him out. I'm def not writing him off, just waiting to see him up close.


That is where skill level and coaching will render him impotent in the NBA. Coaches can scheme to keep him on the perimeter and he will be ineffective if he can't shoot. Unless he is lucky enough to go to a team with some top offensive options who will take some defensive pressure off of him. But those types of teams usually aren't in the lottery.


This is the problem I'm seeing with a player like Elfrid Payton. He's quick, strong and physical, but can't shoot. And it's really hurting his team. Now, can he improve his shot? Sure. But it's admittedly a major work in progress. These guys have succeeded for years at a lower level (high school, college) with these deficiencies but can't hide in today's NBA.

Rondo is another example but he was also surrounded by 3 HOF players and an excellent bench. His deficiencies hurt the team but he contributed in other ways. I just remember Kobe giving him 8 feet and daring him to shoot. Classic Kobe Jedi-mind tricks.


Completely agreed. Just as the days of the back/basket low post dominant big are gone, so are the days of the "pure" pg. PGs need to be able to shoot. Otherwise their penetration game can be limited and schemed for.

bandiger wrote:
I'd stay away from Mudiay, his FT% alone scares me. Rather take a gamble on WCS or the euros.


Absolutely
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davidse
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, I don't doubt Mudiay has physical skills. But when comparing him to Wall, is it modern day Wall or when he was in college?

I'm just curious about how he adapts to the NBA with a terrible jumper. Things we will see if we have a top 5 pick and work him out. I'm def not writing him off, just waiting to see him up close.


That is where skill level and coaching will render him impotent in the NBA. Coaches can scheme to keep him on the perimeter and he will be ineffective if he can't shoot. Unless he is lucky enough to go to a team with some top offensive options who will take some defensive pressure off of him. But those types of teams usually aren't in the lottery.


This is the problem I'm seeing with a player like Elfrid Payton. He's quick, strong and physical, but can't shoot. And it's really hurting his team. Now, can he improve his shot? Sure. But it's admittedly a major work in progress. These guys have succeeded for years at a lower level (high school, college) with these deficiencies but can't hide in today's NBA.

Rondo is another example but he was also surrounded by 3 HOF players and an excellent bench. His deficiencies hurt the team but he contributed in other ways. I just remember Kobe giving him 8 feet and daring him to shoot. Classic Kobe Jedi-mind tricks.


I dont' think payton is anywhere as strong and physical as mudiay, and the biggest skill difference is that mudiay is a great finisher at the rim while payton is struggling in that area too.
you can be an effective nba pg (or even more than that - rondo for example) if you can't shoot (and hopefully that will change with time).
but if you can't shoot OR finish at the rim ?
you have ways to go.
not the situation with mudiay imo.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:33 pm    Post subject:

1. Okafor
2. Towns
3. Russell
4. Johnson
5. Oubre
6. Mudiay
7. Winslow
8. Turner
9. Hezonja
10. Booker
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, I don't doubt Mudiay has physical skills. But when comparing him to Wall, is it modern day Wall or when he was in college?

I'm just curious about how he adapts to the NBA with a terrible jumper. Things we will see if we have a top 5 pick and work him out. I'm def not writing him off, just waiting to see him up close.


That is where skill level and coaching will render him impotent in the NBA. Coaches can scheme to keep him on the perimeter and he will be ineffective if he can't shoot. Unless he is lucky enough to go to a team with some top offensive options who will take some defensive pressure off of him. But those types of teams usually aren't in the lottery.


This is the problem I'm seeing with a player like Elfrid Payton. He's quick, strong and physical, but can't shoot. And it's really hurting his team. Now, can he improve his shot? Sure. But it's admittedly a major work in progress. These guys have succeeded for years at a lower level (high school, college) with these deficiencies but can't hide in today's NBA.

Rondo is another example but he was also surrounded by 3 HOF players and an excellent bench. His deficiencies hurt the team but he contributed in other ways. I just remember Kobe giving him 8 feet and daring him to shoot. Classic Kobe Jedi-mind tricks.


I dont' think payton is anywhere as strong and physical as mudiay, and the biggest skill difference is that mudiay is a great finisher at the rim while payton is struggling in that area too.
you can be an effective nba pg (or even more than that - rondo for example) if you can't shoot (and hopefully that will change with time).
but if you can't shoot OR finish at the rim ?
you have ways to go.
not the situation with mudiay imo.


At least for next year, Kobe/Mudiay spacing wise would be terrible. Including Randle/free agent big man too.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:44 pm    Post subject:

lukewaltonsdad wrote:
Who's the best comparison to Russell that played in the NBA? I can't think of any...
A taller Nick Van Exel but with better defense and just generally a lot better. Still, Nick was arguably the best point guard we have had the past 20 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:02 pm    Post subject:

I think Russell will go 1 or 2. Kid just seems to have that "it" factor. He won't be a bust, cant go wrong with that pick.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:09 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
Inverse wrote:
People are underrating this draft big time...


I think the problem with this draft is there is a lot more potentially great players.. In the same token most of the top players could be bust in the terms of them being stars. There is no John Wall, or Andrew Wiggins, or Anthony Davis, guys you know are going to be good.

I would say Russell is most likely to succeed right away. His leadership and lack of talent around him at Ohio State has showcased his game well. His main flaw is lack of elite athleticism.

Okafor is going to be able to score pretty decent, probably shoot around 50% his rookie year, but he is a terrible ft shooter and his defense is a big question mark. Much bigger question mark than Russell imo.

Towns to me is very hard to gauge, mainly because the play of WCS. His numbers are not that impressive even when you look at it from a per 40 perspective. I would say Towns has the second most potential, but I do think it takes him longer to develop then anyone else on this list, possibly 5 years? Go back and watch the Louisville game, I thought Towns struggled mightily against smaller athletic defenders.

Mudiay to me has the most potential out of any of these players, but I do think it will take some time atleast two years, just so you are able to guage his work ethic. Freak athlete though.


Now we are overrating.


Maybe? But I see a lot of Westbrook in Mudiay, and people say Westbrook is a freak athlete.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject:

Tony Anapolis wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
Inverse wrote:
People are underrating this draft big time...


I think the problem with this draft is there is a lot more potentially great players.. In the same token most of the top players could be bust in the terms of them being stars. There is no John Wall, or Andrew Wiggins, or Anthony Davis, guys you know are going to be good.

I would say Russell is most likely to succeed right away. His leadership and lack of talent around him at Ohio State has showcased his game well. His main flaw is lack of elite athleticism.

Okafor is going to be able to score pretty decent, probably shoot around 50% his rookie year, but he is a terrible ft shooter and his defense is a big question mark. Much bigger question mark than Russell imo.

Towns to me is very hard to gauge, mainly because the play of WCS. His numbers are not that impressive even when you look at it from a per 40 perspective. I would say Towns has the second most potential, but I do think it takes him longer to develop then anyone else on this list, possibly 5 years? Go back and watch the Louisville game, I thought Towns struggled mightily against smaller athletic defenders.

Mudiay to me has the most potential out of any of these players, but I do think it will take some time atleast two years, just so you are able to guage his work ethic. Freak athlete though.


Now we are overrating.


Maybe? But I see a lot of Westbrook in Mudiay, and people say Westbrook is a freak athlete.


Wow. People are way overrating Mudiay's athleticism. Is he athletic? Yes. Westbrook athletic? Let's not get carried away.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:18 pm    Post subject:

Does anyone think Towns will be more of a power forward at the next level? Not really trying to get at anything, just a thought.

Someone said Aldridge was a half inch shorter or taller than Towns I can't remember. But does he have that type of quickness and ball handling skill?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
Inverse wrote:
People are underrating this draft big time...


I think the problem with this draft is there is a lot more potentially great players.. In the same token most of the top players could be bust in the terms of them being stars. There is no John Wall, or Andrew Wiggins, or Anthony Davis, guys you know are going to be good.

I would say Russell is most likely to succeed right away. His leadership and lack of talent around him at Ohio State has showcased his game well. His main flaw is lack of elite athleticism.

Okafor is going to be able to score pretty decent, probably shoot around 50% his rookie year, but he is a terrible ft shooter and his defense is a big question mark. Much bigger question mark than Russell imo.

Towns to me is very hard to gauge, mainly because the play of WCS. His numbers are not that impressive even when you look at it from a per 40 perspective. I would say Towns has the second most potential, but I do think it takes him longer to develop then anyone else on this list, possibly 5 years? Go back and watch the Louisville game, I thought Towns struggled mightily against smaller athletic defenders.

Mudiay to me has the most potential out of any of these players, but I do think it will take some time atleast two years, just so you are able to guage his work ethic. Freak athlete though.


Now we are overrating.


Maybe? But I see a lot of Westbrook in Mudiay, and people say Westbrook is a freak athlete.


Wow. People are way overrating Mudiay's athleticism. Is he athletic? Yes. Westbrook athletic? Let's not get carried away.


Okay fair enough, I haven't really seen him play enough. It was just what scouts were saying about him before the season got started. He does seem to have Westbrook type burst, but he is playing in China? That can be misleading?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject:

He'll be a center with a ton of mobility
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject:

I've seen the DX clips of him. He's athletic, but it's also a bit relative to the mostly Chinese competitors too. He may be supremely athletic but we haven't seen him around better competition athletically speaking.

He looks like a bully guard who has a strong upper body, can post up smaller guys and finish it seems. But again, can he do that against NBA defenders, particularly when he can't shoot and defenders will give him space?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:24 pm    Post subject:

@tonytonytony

People who don't like Mudiay, don't see the athleticism you allude to. We see an above average athlete, but not a John Wall/Westbrook FREAK. Mudiay has never looked close to as much of a blur as John Wall(even college John Wall), and Mudiay jumps like Reggie Jackson, not Russell Westbrook.

Towns if he was in the NBA at this moment, may be better suited at PF. but in 2 years he'll have perfect strength for a Center. Towns has showed some impressive ball handling over the past month, a couple euro steps.
Yes he's only a half inch taller than Aldridge, you can check draftexpress yourself.


here's his perimeter/ Aldridge-esq-ness from highschool
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject:

Russell= James Harden

Mudiay= Lance Stephenson?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:33 pm    Post subject:

Tony Anapolis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Tony Anapolis wrote:
Inverse wrote:
People are underrating this draft big time...


I think the problem with this draft is there is a lot more potentially great players.. In the same token most of the top players could be bust in the terms of them being stars. There is no John Wall, or Andrew Wiggins, or Anthony Davis, guys you know are going to be good.

I would say Russell is most likely to succeed right away. His leadership and lack of talent around him at Ohio State has showcased his game well. His main flaw is lack of elite athleticism.

Okafor is going to be able to score pretty decent, probably shoot around 50% his rookie year, but he is a terrible ft shooter and his defense is a big question mark. Much bigger question mark than Russell imo.

Towns to me is very hard to gauge, mainly because the play of WCS. His numbers are not that impressive even when you look at it from a per 40 perspective. I would say Towns has the second most potential, but I do think it takes him longer to develop then anyone else on this list, possibly 5 years? Go back and watch the Louisville game, I thought Towns struggled mightily against smaller athletic defenders.

Mudiay to me has the most potential out of any of these players, but I do think it will take some time atleast two years, just so you are able to guage his work ethic. Freak athlete though.


Now we are overrating.


Maybe? But I see a lot of Westbrook in Mudiay, and people say Westbrook is a freak athlete.


Wow. People are way overrating Mudiay's athleticism. Is he athletic? Yes. Westbrook athletic? Let's not get carried away.


Okay fair enough, I haven't really seen him play enough. It was just what scouts were saying about him before the season got started. He does seem to have Westbrook type burst, but he is playing in China? That can be misleading?


really? If westbrook and wall are a 10, Mudiay is a 6 in terms of speed
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:37 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
@tonytonytony

People who don't like Mudiay, don't see the athleticism you allude to. We see an above average athlete, but not a John Wall/Westbrook FREAK. Mudiay has never looked close to as much of a blur as John Wall(even college John Wall), and Mudiay jumps like Reggie Jackson, not Russell Westbrook.

Towns if he was in the NBA at this moment, may be better suited at PF. but in 2 years he'll have perfect strength for a Center. Towns has showed some impressive ball handling over the past month, a couple euro steps.
Yes he's only a half inch taller than Aldridge, you can check draftexpress yourself.


here's his perimeter/ Aldridge-esq-ness from highschool


Like I was alluding too, I think my assumptions have been manipulated by the scouts.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:03 pm    Post subject:

of all the footages I've seen of Mudiay, his speed is close to that of Tyreke. Fast but no where near Wall.

Tyreke at 18 playing in China would also be a beast.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:40 pm    Post subject:

You want a winner in the draft, the next franchise player? Might have to wait until 2020 when Seventh Woods comes into the NBA?
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