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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | purple.23 wrote: | | Ed wants to start, and with BS's "let's see what they can do" rotations, he aint gonna. Just let him go. Until you get a someone like Durant, you don't wanna sign anyone long term. |
Ed is fine with just getting PT. He'd be pretty much guaranteed 20-25mins a game here.
And that would be horrible to keep this team flooded with mercenaries on one year deals until you get a max level FA. It's bad for chemistry, culture, and system building. You can give long term deals as long as the contracts are reasonable |
Nail on the head. The hidden value of the san antonio success story is continuity. Cant be bought even with higher level talent. |
The fact we have a thread about who will be the "leader" post Kobe shows that.
A terrible recruiting pitch is the following:
"You will be the leader and the GM here. Tell us who should play on this team and coach..."
I think while some FAs like some sense of being involved, not everyone is enthused with too blank of a slate. We need some institutional knowledge, and even if that doesn't go back to our championship teams, we need people who aren't here on a year-to-year basis. That's why it really made me happy to see Kobe coming back to the games to watch from the bench, and the word that he will invite Randle/Clarkson to work with him this summer. That's how you maintain and build institutional knowledge.
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KobeRe-Loaded
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | Ed Davis deserves 5 yrs $50M |
I am so happy that you have no input when it comes to running this team. If you did, the team would have one 2nd tier player, a bunch of old guys with recognizable names, owe every draft pick from now until 2250 and have a payroll of around $400 million. |
Sarcasm 
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 22 wrote: | Anybody watch the "Lakers Voices" thing with ED the other day? Said he wants to retire here.
Depending on the draft I'd off him a 2yr player option contract but only for $6-7M. That gives him a chance to cash in in 2016 |
My guess is he and his agent are shooting for at least a 4-year, $20 million deal. I can't see why he wouldn't go with the highest bidder. |
I'd be a buyer in that range 
I meant $6/7M per year |
I think he turned down a 3-year, $21 million deal before coming here. It will be interesting to see what he commands. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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It is extremely rare to build a title team top down. you start with draft picks and lower level young guys and a few value vets, while keeping all three options (free agency, your draft picks developing, and trades) to the stars open. Mitch has nailed the bottom end, and looks to be in line to add his second prime lotto pick while also having nailed a lower pick. Now he looks to add stars, but in the interim will add continuity pieces/trade assets, not to the level of precluding star signings, but to enhance his shot, and to also be in a position to have things to trade.
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purple.23
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Oct 2014
Posts: 592
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | purple.23 wrote: | | Ed wants to start, and with BS's "let's see what they can do" rotations, he aint gonna. Just let him go. Until you get a someone like Durant, you don't wanna sign anyone long term. |
Ed is fine with just getting PT. He'd be pretty much guaranteed 20-25mins a game here.
And that would be horrible to keep this team flooded with mercenaries on one year deals until you get a max level FA. It's bad for chemistry, culture, and system building. You can give long term deals as long as the contracts are reasonable |
Nail on the head. The hidden value of the san antonio success story is continuity. Cant be bought even with higher level talent. |
The fact we have a thread about who will be the "leader" post Kobe shows that.
A terrible recruiting pitch is the following:
"You will be the leader and the GM here. Tell us who should play on this team and coach..."
I think while some FAs like some sense of being involved, not everyone is enthused with too blank of a slate. We need some institutional knowledge, and even if that doesn't go back to our championship teams, we need people who aren't here on a year-to-year basis. That's why it really made me happy to see Kobe coming back to the games to watch from the bench, and the word that he will invite Randle/Clarkson to work with him this summer. That's how you maintain and build institutional knowledge. |
I thought the pitch has always been the weather and hollywood? |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | It is extremely rare to build a title team top down. you start with draft picks and lower level young guys and a few value vets, while keeping all three options (free agency, your draft picks developing, and trades) to the stars open. Mitch has nailed the bottom end, and looks to be in line to add his second prime lotto pick while also having nailed a lower pick. Now he looks to add stars, but in the interim will add continuity pieces/trade assets, not to the level of precluding star signings, but to enhance his shot, and to also be in a position to have things to trade. |
People point out the Heat as a get-rich scheme. But that's really not a replicable model IMO.
Then the next example are the Celtics. People forget they:
1. had tons of trade assets (cap space, top 5 pick, Al Jefferson, other young pieces).
2. in his prime Pierce, young Rondo, Tony Allen, Porkins, etc.
So using a combination of trade assets, they got Allen and KG in their relative primes (or just leaving same).
If you want to replicate that, you need the assets and the foundation.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Sure, find me a 17 year old Kobe we could have for 20 years.
In this CBA, if you don't draft a star, you get them at ages 27-28, meaning, you will be paying them, in part, for a part of their prime and the end of it. This is the true Laker killer since we are/were so heavily dependent on free agency to grab stars. Now we have to be more creative and/or accept the fact we will be getting stars a bit later age wise than in the previous CBA.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Sure, find me a 17 year old Kobe we could have for 20 years.
In this CBA, if you don't draft a star, you get them at ages 27-28, meaning, you will be paying them, in part, for a part of their prime and the end of it. This is the true Laker killer since we are/were so heavily dependent on free agency to grab stars. Now we have to be more creative and/or accept the fact we will be getting stars a bit later age wise than in the previous CBA. |
No, we have always been a trade for stars kind of team (kareem, gasol, and the idea if howard/nash). We rarely have been a cap room team, and almost all of our great draft pick stars have been from traded picks (magic, worthy, scott, kobe). Shaq is the only pure free agent we really went after and got.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12861
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Sure, find me a 17 year old Kobe we could have for 20 years.
In this CBA, if you don't draft a star, you get them at ages 27-28, meaning, you will be paying them, in part, for a part of their prime and the end of it. This is the true Laker killer since we are/were so heavily dependent on free agency to grab stars. Now we have to be more creative and/or accept the fact we will be getting stars a bit later age wise than in the previous CBA. |
No, we have always been a trade for stars kind of team (kareem, gasol, and the idea if howard/nash). We rarely have been a cap room team, and almost all of our great draft pick stars have been from traded picks (magic, worthy, scott, kobe). Shaq is the only pure free agent we really went after and got. |
Different era though. Now the system and finances allow smaller markets to keep their stars. Once was, either those players could force their way to LA or their teams just didn't want to take the financial risk of paying them. On the player side, the internet era has made the market far less geographic and t/f not "small" is less populous cities.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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iggypop123
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Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 5402
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Its not the late 90s anymore. The rules are different, free agents don't come to us we come to them.
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Kobe "I mean Phil's been here, and -- to be honest with you -- we might have, in all the years I've been with Phil, (had) maybe three defensive drills the entire time" |
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PROPHET
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Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 4356
Location: Oxnard, CA - The Nard
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The new CBA killed the way the Lakers did business and the Chris Paul veto was death nail. We need to get and accumulate assets so keeping this draft pick is imperative. |
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watchME
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 3384
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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we have to keep him, i love him.
i wonder if lakers will go this way
PG.clarkson
SG.butler
SF.johnson (our 1st)
PF.randle
C.davis
with all our picks just get big athletic guys that cannplay C
Last edited by watchME on Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Sure, find me a 17 year old Kobe we could have for 20 years.
In this CBA, if you don't draft a star, you get them at ages 27-28, meaning, you will be paying them, in part, for a part of their prime and the end of it. This is the true Laker killer since we are/were so heavily dependent on free agency to grab stars. Now we have to be more creative and/or accept the fact we will be getting stars a bit later age wise than in the previous CBA. |
No, we have always been a trade for stars kind of team (kareem, gasol, and the idea if howard/nash). We rarely have been a cap room team, and almost all of our great draft pick stars have been from traded picks (magic, worthy, scott, kobe). Shaq is the only pure free agent we really went after and got. |
True. I meant that going forward we will be dependent on free agency and the fact most of these guys seem to be around 27-28 y.o. We may be able to trade, but that presumes we will have sufficient assets to do so. Getting that top 5 pick would help a lot.
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Sure, find me a 17 year old Kobe we could have for 20 years.
In this CBA, if you don't draft a star, you get them at ages 27-28, meaning, you will be paying them, in part, for a part of their prime and the end of it. This is the true Laker killer since we are/were so heavily dependent on free agency to grab stars. Now we have to be more creative and/or accept the fact we will be getting stars a bit later age wise than in the previous CBA. |
No, we have always been a trade for stars kind of team (kareem, gasol, and the idea if howard/nash). We rarely have been a cap room team, and almost all of our great draft pick stars have been from traded picks (magic, worthy, scott, kobe). Shaq is the only pure free agent we really went after and got. |
In terms of stars we got in their prime, I'd put them into four categories:
Pure Free Agents: Shaq
Guys We Got in Trades Because of the Thread of Free Agency: Kareem, Howard
Trades: Gasol
Draft Picks: Magic, Kobe, Worthy |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Sure, find me a 17 year old Kobe we could have for 20 years.
In this CBA, if you don't draft a star, you get them at ages 27-28, meaning, you will be paying them, in part, for a part of their prime and the end of it. This is the true Laker killer since we are/were so heavily dependent on free agency to grab stars. Now we have to be more creative and/or accept the fact we will be getting stars a bit later age wise than in the previous CBA. |
No, we have always been a trade for stars kind of team (kareem, gasol, and the idea if howard/nash). We rarely have been a cap room team, and almost all of our great draft pick stars have been from traded picks (magic, worthy, scott, kobe). Shaq is the only pure free agent we really went after and got. |
In terms of stars we got in their prime, I'd put them into four categories:
Pure Free Agents: Shaq
Guys We Got in Trades Because of the Thread of Free Agency: Kareem, Howard
Trades: Gasol
Draft Picks: Magic, Kobe, Worthy |
And where did we get the picks for magic, worthy, and kobe?
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Considering I don't watch the games any more I am probably not the most qualified to comment, but honestly I don't see this guy as not replaceable by any stretch.
Vet min or bail. Tank on.
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Harlemlakerfan
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Joined: 19 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Ed Davis is a must keep! I'm even willing to let Jordan Hill go just to keep him. He is the ideal back up big. He played defense, he rebounds and he is effective on the floor without needing any plays run for him. I Say double his salary from this year or even go up as far as 5mil a year for 3 years. |
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NomisR
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Posts: 471
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Sure, find me a 17 year old Kobe we could have for 20 years.
In this CBA, if you don't draft a star, you get them at ages 27-28, meaning, you will be paying them, in part, for a part of their prime and the end of it. This is the true Laker killer since we are/were so heavily dependent on free agency to grab stars. Now we have to be more creative and/or accept the fact we will be getting stars a bit later age wise than in the previous CBA. |
No, we have always been a trade for stars kind of team (kareem, gasol, and the idea if howard/nash). We rarely have been a cap room team, and almost all of our great draft pick stars have been from traded picks (magic, worthy, scott, kobe). Shaq is the only pure free agent we really went after and got. |
In terms of stars we got in their prime, I'd put them into four categories:
Pure Free Agents: Shaq
Guys We Got in Trades Because of the Thread of Free Agency: Kareem, Howard
Trades: Gasol
Draft Picks: Magic, Kobe, Worthy |
And where did we get the picks for magic, worthy, and kobe? |
I had to look it up, but did NBA have the same free agency draft compensation rules as the NFL back then? |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Ed Davis is a must keep! I'm even willing to let Jordan Hill go just to keep him. He is the ideal back up big. He played defense, he rebounds and he is effective on the floor without needing any plays run for him. I Say double his salary from this year or even go up as far as 5mil a year for 3 years. |
He's going to get offers starting in the 5m range. Some team will give him 7-8m.
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Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | It is extremely rare to build a title team top down. you start with draft picks and lower level young guys and a few value vets, while keeping all three options (free agency, your draft picks developing, and trades) to the stars open. Mitch has nailed the bottom end, and looks to be in line to add his second prime lotto pick while also having nailed a lower pick. Now he looks to add stars, but in the interim will add continuity pieces/trade assets, not to the level of precluding star signings, but to enhance his shot, and to also be in a position to have things to trade. |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Swaggy's $5 mill still on the books effectively ends Davis's future as a Laker. |
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K0BEE 2.0
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Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 10949
Location: I wish I knew
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Swaggy's $5 mill still on the books effectively ends Davis's future as a Laker. |
The Lakers need to find a way to get rid of that garbage trash player.... the only reason why he's known is because of his crappy personality... no one is gonna care about his comedian approach or interviews once the Lakers start winning..... get that clown out of L.A. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why not replicate the Lakers? That sounds like the most logical method to me. |
Sure, find me a 17 year old Kobe we could have for 20 years.
In this CBA, if you don't draft a star, you get them at ages 27-28, meaning, you will be paying them, in part, for a part of their prime and the end of it. This is the true Laker killer since we are/were so heavily dependent on free agency to grab stars. Now we have to be more creative and/or accept the fact we will be getting stars a bit later age wise than in the previous CBA. |
No, we have always been a trade for stars kind of team (kareem, gasol, and the idea if howard/nash). We rarely have been a cap room team, and almost all of our great draft pick stars have been from traded picks (magic, worthy, scott, kobe). Shaq is the only pure free agent we really went after and got. |
Different era though. Now the system and finances allow smaller markets to keep their stars. Once was, either those players could force their way to LA or their teams just didn't want to take the financial risk of paying them. On the player side, the internet era has made the market far less geographic and t/f not "small" is less populous cities. |
I think that the cap due to the new TV deal will tilt things back to the major markets.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Harlemlakerfan
Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 2716
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Ed Davis is a must keep! I'm even willing to let Jordan Hill go just to keep him. He is the ideal back up big. He played defense, he rebounds and he is effective on the floor without needing any plays run for him. I Say double his salary from this year or even go up as far as 5mil a year for 3 years. |
He's going to get offers starting in the 5m range. Some team will give him 7-8m. |
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Well, he said that's he wants to retire here, make him prove it. Give him a generous offer and see if he chases the money. I think a 3 year deal at 5 mil a year is right about what he is worth. I would go an extra year but not more money per. He made 1 mil this season. Paying him 5x that amount is generous. |
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