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lakersken80
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 Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | I've seen people get very emotionally charged over parking spaces, so I would never discount it as a possible motive for something like this, especially if this guy had a propensity to let things fester with his anger. It wouldn't shock me if the guy was a Islamophobe/xenophobe either, who knows, and who (bleep) cares. Whether this guy hated them for being Muslim, or hated them for being perceived (bleep) over parking spaces, he was still motivated by the same emotion and it's (likely) premeditation either way. People who desperately try to argue over something they don't know (bleep) about (what this guy was actually thinking when he decided to do this,) just want to win the "what to blame" game, so they can use it as ammunition against that thing on a societal level. So wow, a multiple homicide, in a country full of multiple homicides, lets put a ton of sociopolitical significance on this event, even though it's statistically insignificant. The whore media will vulture upon any tragedy they can spin into something political, they know that's what gets people going emotionally, and therefore gets them ratings and hits. |
This happened only a couple of months ago...
http://abc7.com/news/woman-fatally-stabbed-over-swap-meet-parking-space/363742/
Parking spaces are just one of those things that get people that are close to blowing their gasket to go over the edge. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | I've seen people get very emotionally charged over parking spaces, so I would never discount it as a possible motive for something like this, especially if this guy had a propensity to let things fester with his anger. It wouldn't shock me if the guy was a Islamophobe/xenophobe either, who knows, and who (bleep) cares. Whether this guy hated them for being Muslim, or hated them for being perceived (bleep) over parking spaces, he was still motivated by the same emotion and it's (likely) premeditation either way. People who desperately try to argue over something they don't know (bleep) about (what this guy was actually thinking when he decided to do this,) just want to win the "what to blame" game, so they can use it as ammunition against that thing on a societal level. So wow, a multiple homicide, in a country full of multiple homicides, lets put a ton of sociopolitical significance on this event, even though it's statistically insignificant. The whore media will vulture upon any tragedy they can spin into something political, they know that's what gets people going emotionally, and therefore gets them ratings and hits. |
This happened only a couple of months ago...
http://abc7.com/news/woman-fatally-stabbed-over-swap-meet-parking-space/363742/
Parking spaces are just one of those things that get people that are close to blowing their gasket to go over the edge. |
I remember one of our own members was getting threatened with physical violence just a couple months ago over a parking space.. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | So wow, a multiple homicide, in a country full of multiple homicides, lets put a ton of sociopolitical significance on this event, even though it's statistically insignificant. |
I usually agree with your posts and respect what you have to say, so I'm not trying to flick you in the nose with this post to start a pissing contest, but "Wow, a multiple homicide" is the whole point. It's not realistic to expect people to be completely indifferent about these stories as they pop up. It's even less realistic to expect that we should measure triple murders by their relative statistical insignificance. Every murder of a young person over something as dumb as a parking space is significant. I'm not saying you're BSing about being that logical, but I'd be more convinced if you told me that you were a paramedic who's seen too much violence to be affected by it any longer. Would you go on record on camera after one of these events and say, "Wow, a multiple homicide...", "statistically insignificant..."? Maybe you would, but I'd have to see it to believe it.
We're animals, we have forethought, we have innate prejudices. There's a segment who think the killer being racist against the victim(s) on top of the actual crime/murder makes no difference, but the point is to further distinguish what the motive(s) were. Motive inherently makes a difference. If that were not so, then there would also be no point to distinguishing between 1st and 2nd degree murder (both considered intentional "with malice aforethought", but one being premeditated). I realize the inclusion of racial animosity into the consideration is what some don't like, but this guy being charged on a hate crime WOULD BE significant to the families. They feel it would be an added token of justice for their children. I couldn't tell them (or Brown's parents, or Martin's parents, e.g.) that they're being obtuse to care about the charges on which this guy does his guaranteed life sentence.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | So wow, a multiple homicide, in a country full of multiple homicides, lets put a ton of sociopolitical significance on this event, even though it's statistically insignificant. |
I usually agree with your posts and respect what you have to say, so I'm not trying to flick you in the nose with this post to start a pissing contest, but "Wow, a multiple homicide" is the whole point. It's not realistic to expect people to be completely indifferent about these stories as they pop up. It's even less realistic to expect that we should measure triple murders by their relative statistical insignificance. Every murder of a young person over something as dumb as a parking space is significant. I'm not saying you're BSing about being that logical, but I'd be more convinced if you told me that you were a paramedic who's seen too much violence to be affected by it any longer. Would you go on record on camera after one of these events and say, "Wow, a multiple homicide...", "statistically insignificant..."? Maybe you would, but I'd have to see it to believe it.
We're animals, we have forethought, we have innate prejudices. There's a segment who think the killer being racist against the victim(s) on top of the actual crime/murder makes no difference, but the point is to further distinguish what the motive(s) were. Motive inherently makes a difference. If that were not so, then there would also be no point to distinguishing between 1st and 2nd degree murder (both considered intentional "with malice aforethought", but one being premeditated). I realize the inclusion of racial animosity into the consideration is what some don't like, but this guy being charged on a hate crime WOULD BE significant to the families. They feel it would be an added token of justice for their children. I couldn't tell them (or Brown's parents, or Martin's parents, e.g.) that they're being obtuse to care about the charges on which this guy does guaranteed life sentence. |
That was a great post NPZ as was your prior one in this thread. I've never seen falling down but I know enough about the movie to know how it fits in with a dude like this.
And I know that when people start ignoring the root cause of (bleep) like this, they're just being contrarian. Put any of them in the shoes of the families of the victims and they damn sure would want to know what the hell happened and why their loved one is gone forever in a most horrific fashion.
And hell yes to the concept of hate crime. (bleep) ain't about just those killed, it's terrorism. And that's designed to control people from standing up for their humanity and THAT is a crime against humanity. Ignore that (bleep) at the risk of being looked at as a narrow minded clownish, subhuman buffoon.
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, K. Bee. I don't expect that FanOfBynum will agree with much of what I said, but fwiw, I 100% agree with his last line and I've argued what he said there many times, so I do think the media are ho's that exploit these kind of tragedies, but that's an offshoot. Just recently, CNN had on family members of the Denver movie theater shooting. They were asking that the media stop droning on and on about the killer and focus more on the families. Their anchors act so damn PC (fake, phony sh). This is only days after they refused to show stills of the Jordanian pilot standing in the cage because of "high propaganda value" of the images for the murderers and then they go right back to putting their main focus on this Hicks guy. They know "Where's the beef?!" and the most titillating angle is the shooter/freak, not the victims.
The great majority of us have to admit that the first thing we wanna know about is the who/what/why of the shooter. Maybe Bynum is less concerned with that subject than I am if I'm reading his last reply right. Myself, I'm guilty of it and as such, a hypocrite for complaining about it as much as I do, but I think if they changed their tactics, our appetite that gives these bastards publicity might shift a little into the more considerate direction. It's high time that the media stops fostering copycats because it's been discovered time after time for decades now that these murderers are often looking to validate themselves as non-losers and/or to become IN-famous. Even the outhouse rat krazy ones are savvy enough to know that their whole life story will be told in such detail that they'll be called by all 3 of their names. First reporter who found out that Oswald was the suspect called him Lee Harold 3 or so times on air. So hasty to get it out that he didn't even wait to get confirmation on his name.
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | So wow, a multiple homicide, in a country full of multiple homicides, lets put a ton of sociopolitical significance on this event, even though it's statistically insignificant. |
I usually agree with your posts and respect what you have to say, so I'm not trying to flick you in the nose with this post to start a pissing contest, but "Wow, a multiple homicide" is the whole point. It's not realistic to expect people to be completely indifferent about these stories as they pop up. It's even less realistic to expect that we should measure triple murders by their relative statistical insignificance. Every murder of a young person over something as dumb as a parking space is significant. I'm not saying you're BSing about being that logical, but I'd be more convinced if you told me that you were a paramedic who's seen too much violence to be affected by it any longer. Would you go on record on camera after one of these events and say, "Wow, a multiple homicide...", "statistically insignificant..."? Maybe you would, but I'd have to see it to believe it.
We're animals, we have forethought, we have innate prejudices. There's a segment who think the killer being racist against the victim(s) on top of the actual crime/murder makes no difference, but the point is to further distinguish what the motive(s) were. Motive inherently makes a difference. If that were not so, then there would also be no point to distinguishing between 1st and 2nd degree murder (both considered intentional "with malice aforethought", but one being premeditated). I realize the inclusion of racial animosity into the consideration is what some don't like, but this guy being charged on a hate crime WOULD BE significant to the families. They feel it would be an added token of justice for their children. I couldn't tell them (or Brown's parents, or Martin's parents, e.g.) that they're being obtuse to care about the charges on which this guy does his guaranteed life sentence. |
You're equivocating my use of the word significance. I don't know if you did this intentionally or not, but I think I made the context of its usage pretty clear. Yes, murder always matters, it's never inconsequential, but that doesn't mean any one single case of homicide, or multiple homicide, has big scale sociopolitical significance, and that's what the media always tries to bait people into making it about, so it can drum up controversy, and the political talking heads can use it as political ammunition to throw at some group or issue.
The legal system actually is not supposed to be about what the victims would have wanted, or the victims' families want, it's supposed to be about what society deems fair and appropriate. And yes, I know that it's not always the case in practice, they'll let family members and victims make emotional appeals at sentencing, and parole hearings, but the justice system isn't really about serving them. So even if they would get extra gratification out of it being a "hate crime," I don't think that should really hold a lot of weight here. Appealing to the desires of grieving people, is not a good idea for a system that we want to be rational. It doesn't exist to carry out the wrath of emotionally compromised people.
Also, you say it being a "hate crime" would give the family extra gratification, but what about a crime in which there wasn't a likely racial motivation, but rather a parking space dispute, and they were killed in the same way? Were those victims treated with less malice? Would those victims' families be less distraught, less angry? Why is it less egregious? It's really not IMO, it's just as damaging, and the killer is just as dangerous to society. |
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: |
That was a great post NPZ as was your prior one in this thread. I've never seen falling down but I know enough about the movie to know how it fits in with a dude like this.
And I know that when people start ignoring the root cause of (bleep) like this, they're just being contrarian. Put any of them in the shoes of the families of the victims and they damn sure would want to know what the hell happened and why their loved one is gone forever in a most horrific fashion.
And hell yes to the concept of hate crime. (bleep) ain't about just those killed, it's terrorism. And that's designed to control people from standing up for their humanity and THAT is a crime against humanity. Ignore that (bleep) at the risk of being looked at as a narrow minded clownish, subhuman buffoon. |
It's not terrorism. |
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C M B
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hate crime, quite possibly, maybe not. Terrorism, no way.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | Hate crime, quite possibly, maybe not. Terrorism, no way. |
Both you guys are wrong. Hate crimes are absolutely terrorism. They seek to affect not only the individual victim, but all those of the targeted group. Period.
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Hate crime, quite possibly, maybe not. Terrorism, no way. |
Both you guys are wrong. Hate crimes are absolutely terrorism. They seek to affect not only the individual victim, but all those of the targeted group. Period. |
Terrorism is the attempt to coerce political or social change through instilling a fear of violence, by threats of violence and/or the use of violence. This does not qualify. Period (by saying "period" that means my opinion is extra correct.) |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Hate crime, quite possibly, maybe not. Terrorism, no way. |
Both you guys are wrong. Hate crimes are absolutely terrorism. They seek to affect not only the individual victim, but all those of the targeted group. Period. |
Terrorism is the attempt to coerce political or social change through instilling a fear of violence, by threats of violence and/or the use of violence. This does not qualify. Period (by saying "period" that means my opinion is extra correct.) |
If you don't think that is exactly what hate crimes do, then I don't know what to say.
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Hate crime, quite possibly, maybe not. Terrorism, no way. |
Both you guys are wrong. Hate crimes are absolutely terrorism. They seek to affect not only the individual victim, but all those of the targeted group. Period. |
Terrorism is the attempt to coerce political or social change through instilling a fear of violence, by threats of violence and/or the use of violence. This does not qualify. Period (by saying "period" that means my opinion is extra correct.) |
If you don't think that is exactly what hate crimes do, then I don't know what to say. |
I don't think terrorism and "hate crimes" are mutually exclusive, but that doesn't mean that all "hate crimes" (and it's not conclusive that this actually was motivated by prejudice against Muslims) are terrorism. There has to be the intent to instill fear in others in order to affect social or political change. |
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ani007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Interesting discussions liked what a lot of you had to say.
And even though terrorism might have a more political connotation and be defined as such, in my opinion that guy (if racially motivated or what not) is clearly a terrorist. Certainly an enemy of the state and the rest of society.
And even though I was a fan of bynum, are you not contradicting yourself when you want to super define the word terrorism/terrorist, yet how this crime is defined is inconsequential?
Oh agreed on the media part too lol |
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ani007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Also I think you discount the human factor.
If a muslim guy executed two sisters and ones husband, hard working dental students in the prime of their lives, there would be a reaction (on a societal and individual level)
Likewise in the unfolding of the actual events.
That reaction is going to be based on a myriad of factors no?
Those factors and tapping into our own thoughts and having a dialogue (No Matter the facts) serves a role, yet this does not mean I don't think the facts are unimportant or the charges.
I get disillusioned with media (hard not to) and the manner of dissemination of information. But things like this hit home. I'm half Punjabi and they wear turbans. I'm just saying....media baiting or not I'd like to hear all opinions concerning this grave matter including all of yours.
And disillusionment and cynism aside, it is a massacre to me, it was perprated in my definition by a terrorist, and we should examine the facts and what this means for all of us. |
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:25 am Post subject: |
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You guys are putting this magical value on some word. Terrorism/terrorist has essentially become just some vague description of something extra special super duper bad, and if you don't think something is terrorism, then that must mean you don't think it's bad enough to qualify. That's not what the word means, that's not the purpose of the word, and something not being terrorism does not mean it's not horrible.
Terrorism is just a particular use of violence, but since it's become such a politically charged buzz word, people fight over it like children to have it applied to whatever events they want to turn into ammunition for some cause, as if it's some privilege to be allowed the thing you're against to be called terrorism. I suppose it is a privilege though, it's all just people jockeying for the privilege of getting their cause the special status of "terrorism," and then it earns immediate importance. You don't have to carefully explain the relative sociopolitical significance of an event, you can just try to make emotional appeals to get people to accept that it's terrorism, and all your work is done.
On top of that, it just gives more power to the "war on terror," by making it the ultimate super duper mega maximum evil, and we have to start making new laws, or ordering drone strikes killing who knows how many people to get a few baddies.
Last edited by Fan0Bynum17 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| ani007 wrote: | | are you not contradicting yourself when you want to super define the word terrorism/terrorist, yet how this crime is defined is inconsequential? |
You're going to have to phrase this better, because I'm not really sure what you're saying. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | You guys are putting this magical value on some word. Terrorism/terrorist has essentially become just some vague description of something extra special super duper bad, and if you don't think something is terrorism, then that must mean you don't think it's bad enough to qualify. That's not what the word means, that's not the purpose of the word, and something not being terrorism does not mean it's not horrible.
Terrorism is just a particular use of violence, but since it's become such a politically charged buzz word, people fight over it like children to have it applied to whatever events they want to turn into ammunition for some cause, as if it's some privilege to be allowed the thing you're against to be called terrorism. I suppose it is a privilege though, it's all just people jockeying for the privilege of getting their cause the special status of "terrorism," and then it earns immediate importance. You don't have to carefully explain the relative sociopolitical significance of an event, you can just try to make emotional appeals to get people to accept that it's terrorism, and all your work is done.
On top of that, it just gives more power to the "war on terror," by making it the ultimate super duper mega maximum evil, and we have to start making new laws, or ordering drone strikes killing who knows how many people to get a few baddies. |
Well, I don't agree with any of your post and frankly, I think you've an ax to grind that has nothing to do with the situation and more your views on the media and society.
That being said, I can assure you and I encourage you to find the evidence in any of my thousands of posts that supports the notion that this situation has anything to do with any of the causes for which I am known on this board. You won't though because I don't. I just have a definition of terrorism that differs from yours. And just to be clear, sometimes terrorism is a good thing. i.e. the terrorism of the war fought by the colonial army, and the terrorism practiced by the ANC in South Africa, and sometimes it is clearly evil, i.e. the practice of lynching in the(mostly) American South between 1877 and 1950.
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | You guys are putting this magical value on some word. Terrorism/terrorist has essentially become just some vague description of something extra special super duper bad, and if you don't think something is terrorism, then that must mean you don't think it's bad enough to qualify. That's not what the word means, that's not the purpose of the word, and something not being terrorism does not mean it's not horrible.
Terrorism is just a particular use of violence, but since it's become such a politically charged buzz word, people fight over it like children to have it applied to whatever events they want to turn into ammunition for some cause, as if it's some privilege to be allowed the thing you're against to be called terrorism. I suppose it is a privilege though, it's all just people jockeying for the privilege of getting their cause the special status of "terrorism," and then it earns immediate importance. You don't have to carefully explain the relative sociopolitical significance of an event, you can just try to make emotional appeals to get people to accept that it's terrorism, and all your work is done.
On top of that, it just gives more power to the "war on terror," by making it the ultimate super duper mega maximum evil, and we have to start making new laws, or ordering drone strikes killing who knows how many people to get a few baddies. |
I think you've an ax to grind that has nothing to do with the situation and more your views on the media and society. |
The reaction to this story, and ones like it, has everything to do with media and society, so I don't know how that has nothing to do with "the situation." |
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Stone hate crimes are terrorism. Some aren't.
I'd a hate crime was terrorism, the criminal would make it very clear that they killed people sure to their skin color, religion, etc... It's done to send a message.
For this to be terrorism, it would be to terrorize people who want this guys's parking space. |
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ani007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | You guys are putting this magical value on some word. Terrorism/terrorist has essentially become just some vague description of something extra special super duper bad, and if you don't think something is terrorism, then that must mean you don't think it's bad enough to qualify. That's not what the word means, that's not the purpose of the word, and something not being terrorism does not mean it's not horrible.
Terrorism is just a particular use of violence, but since it's become such a politically charged buzz word, people fight over it like children to have it applied to whatever events they want to turn into ammunition for some cause, as if it's some privilege to be allowed the thing you're against to be called terrorism. I suppose it is a privilege though, it's all just people jockeying for the privilege of getting their cause the special status of "terrorism," and then it earns immediate importance. You don't have to carefully explain the relative sociopolitical significance of an event, you can just try to make emotional appeals to get people to accept that it's terrorism, and all your work is done.
On top of that, it just gives more power to the "war on terror," by making it the ultimate super duper mega maximum evil, and we have to start making new laws, or ordering drone strikes killing who knows how many people to get a few baddies. |
I think you've an ax to grind that has nothing to do with the situation and more your views on the media and society. |
The reaction to this story, and ones like it, has everything to do with media and society, so I don't know how that has nothing to do with "the situation." |
Yeah FOB maybe the term terrorism does get diluted when applied so broadly and injudiciously. I also agree it leads to black and white/ all or nothing thinking without a focus on the nuances. (I.e. if all you knew about Nelson mendela was he was deemed a terrorist)
I understand your ax to grind. That being said, being Indian having friends in dental school being their age etc. does make this situation very real and if the media, law, people whatever want to discuss it, air it frame it to fit their agenda so be it.
I'd like to think I have enough critical thinking skills to examine that and really want to know some more facts of the case. Even if that doesnt impact his sentence. That's why I come on here to hear some respected opinions vs watching news.
Lol its funny though an agenda about agendas. You know what really grinds my gears haha statistically insignificant crimes being made into TMZ like drama, used by state actors to promote war, substandard journalism and media fanning the flames, etc. also people using the word terrorism broadly and to fit their agenda.
If ^ that sums up what you're trying to say um I think I agree lol but like I said this kinda hits home and knowing the human element, even without media or govt. this remains a massacre. You don't see 3 people executed in the head for parking space. And with how we are percieved and our use of the word terrorism, ts only natural for the world to find interest in this story. I would say a lot of those people even if liberal might believe in American Hypocracy. How can we not cover it in the news? I think he should rot in jail and agree who cares what charges, but with that much attention i would imagine its going to be a process.
People will always have agendas, conflicts, biases.
Why would you expect those to just stop when it comes to terrorism or the slaying of Muslim girls in hijab and ones husband....
Get your ax to grind but to apply and mention it here just seems...I don't know.. What else did or do you expect? |
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ani007
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 507
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | ani007 wrote: | | are you not contradicting yourself when you want to super define the word terrorism/terrorist, yet how this crime is defined is inconsequential? |
You're going to have to phrase this better, because I'm not really sure what you're saying. |
I'm saying you're charging us and the world over with injudiciously using the word terrorism, and you delineated quite eloquently what terrorism is and how it is actually defined.
Yet you don't care about the charges his crime will be defined by....I thought you were a stickler for how something should adhere to it's defintition....well then his motives, mindset, history, intent etc. Do become significant to define and declare the crime he is being accused of and subsequently prosecuted for. |
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focus
Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2012
Posts: 2526
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | Stone hate crimes are terrorism. Some aren't.
I'd a hate crime was terrorism, the criminal would make it very clear that they killed people sure to their skin color, religion, etc... It's done to send a message.
For this to be terrorism, it would be to terrorize people who want this guys's parking space. |
Why do you think it was about a parking space only? You sound certain it was. |
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Fan0Bynum17
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Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ani007 wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | ani007 wrote: | | are you not contradicting yourself when you want to super define the word terrorism/terrorist, yet how this crime is defined is inconsequential? |
You're going to have to phrase this better, because I'm not really sure what you're saying. |
I'm saying you're charging us and the world over with injudiciously using the word terrorism, and you delineated quite eloquently what terrorism is and how it is actually defined.
Yet you don't care about the charges his crime will be defined by....I thought you were a stickler for how something should adhere to it's defintition....well then his motives, mindset, history, intent etc. Do become significant to define and declare the crime he is being accused of and subsequently prosecuted for. |
I'll clarify. When I said "who cares?" I wasn't questioning mere curiosity or inquiry into why, but rather questioning political debates about what to blame. I'm saying neither carry significant meaning on any large scale, considering this is one crime out of thousands of crimes. Either way, I don't see a fundamental difference in the crime if he was motivated by prejudice, or a plain old neighbor beef. Both reasons are (bleep) up and stupid, and they both make him a danger to society. So to me, it's immaterial in that sense.
It's pretty sick when you see people almost gleeful about something like this happening because they finally have ammunition to use against their target groups. Just like how feminists reacted to the Elliot Rodger killing spree, they immediately built him up as this consummate representative of all their typical targets and evidence of a societal attitude, and they seemed almost happy that it happened, so they can finally have some type of smoking gun to refer to. A lot of these people don't really care about the actual "why," they only care if they can use it as ammunition in their own personal crusade.
And for the record, I'm not necessarily saying that this stuff is going on here in this thread. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | Hate crime, quite possibly, maybe not. Terrorism, no way. |
I don't know about that. This case is the perfect example of why there really is little difference between the two.
The motivations, goals and execution are the same. It's really just a difference of scale. |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Hate crime, quite possibly, maybe not. Terrorism, no way. |
Both you guys are wrong. Hate crimes are absolutely terrorism. They seek to affect not only the individual victim, but all those of the targeted group. Period. |
Terrorism is the attempt to coerce political or social change through instilling a fear of violence, by threats of violence and/or the use of violence. This does not qualify. Period (by saying "period" that means my opinion is extra correct.) |
If you don't think that is exactly what hate crimes do, then I don't know what to say. |
KBCB is spot on. Hate crimes are aimed at intimidation of a specific group through threat and violence.
That's also exactly the definition of terrorism. The idea that terrorism only exists on a widespread political spectrum is ridiculous. |
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