Mayweather vs. Pacquiao: May 2, 2015
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:32 am    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
jodeke wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
The judges had it for Floyd. The HBO people who backs Manny had it for Floyd. weisfeld and Lederman had it for Floyd. Most people ring side had it for Floyd. With that said, Manny won. Dude was offered 40M and walked away with 120M+.


I don't doubt that there are fans who believe Manny won but it doesn't matter what they believe.

Posting, polls stats and what people believe, will accomplish, zilch, nothing, nada.

Here's the only polls, stats and people that count LINK


There isn't an exact science for how to judge these types of fights, so I don't understand why people aren't open to different opinions. It's pretty subjective. It's not like this was a clear beating one way or another.

Personally I'll never respect Floyd as a fighter, but he's a great business man. I just don't understand how you can agree to fight someone, and then get in the ring and avoid a fight. It's just silly. But it makes sense if your only aim is to make money.

I'm open to and hold respect for different opinions. It was a clear win in my eyes and in the eyes of the judges, ringside announcers, Lederman, Weisfield. They all had Floyd winning. If you saw it differently I respect your view. I don't agree with it but I respect it.

You strike me as a fan who wants blood and guts. I do too but I also respect the sweet science, hit and not be hit.

You don't understand why a fighter who's fought the same way for 19 years would continue to do so? What did you expect?

Boxing is Floyd's job. He's a professional boxer. He goes to the office, which happens to be a ring, to make money. When you go to work what's the purpose? Isn't it to make money? Does it not follow Floyd should do the same?

I don't understand why some people can't see that.


Translation:

I totally respect different opinions.

Now let me make assumptions about you and create a narrative about what how you came to your opinion so that I can devalue your opinion. I can now argue against the fabricated narrative that I've created about you.

Assumptions and opinions are two different animals. Making things up? You're going to argue against something you created? How can you lose a argument against yourself?
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Reflexx
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
jodeke wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
The judges had it for Floyd. The HBO people who backs Manny had it for Floyd. weisfeld and Lederman had it for Floyd. Most people ring side had it for Floyd. With that said, Manny won. Dude was offered 40M and walked away with 120M+.


I don't doubt that there are fans who believe Manny won but it doesn't matter what they believe.

Posting, polls stats and what people believe, will accomplish, zilch, nothing, nada.

Here's the only polls, stats and people that count LINK


There isn't an exact science for how to judge these types of fights, so I don't understand why people aren't open to different opinions. It's pretty subjective. It's not like this was a clear beating one way or another.

Personally I'll never respect Floyd as a fighter, but he's a great business man. I just don't understand how you can agree to fight someone, and then get in the ring and avoid a fight. It's just silly. But it makes sense if your only aim is to make money.

I'm open to and hold respect for different opinions. It was a clear win in my eyes and in the eyes of the judges, ringside announcers, Lederman, Weisfield. They all had Floyd winning. If you saw it differently I respect your view. I don't agree with it but I respect it.

You strike me as a fan who wants blood and guts. I do too but I also respect the sweet science, hit and not be hit.

You don't understand why a fighter who's fought the same way for 19 years would continue to do so? What did you expect?

Boxing is Floyd's job. He's a professional boxer. He goes to the office, which happens to be a ring, to make money. When you go to work what's the purpose? Isn't it to make money? Does it not follow Floyd should do the same?

I don't understand why some people can't see that.


Translation:

I totally respect different opinions.

Now let me make assumptions about you and create a narrative about what how you came to your opinion so that I can devalue your opinion. I can now argue against the fabricated narrative that I've created about you.

Assumptions and opinions are two different animals. Making things up? You're going to argue against something you created. How can you lose a argument against yourself?


You made up a narrative about how he viewed the fight and what he wants.

That's not an opinion. It's something that is either true or untrue.

Then you claim to not understand how someone could have such an opinion, when he never stated that was his reasoning. It was your reasoning.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
jodeke wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
The judges had it for Floyd. The HBO people who backs Manny had it for Floyd. weisfeld and Lederman had it for Floyd. Most people ring side had it for Floyd. With that said, Manny won. Dude was offered 40M and walked away with 120M+.


I don't doubt that there are fans who believe Manny won but it doesn't matter what they believe.

Posting, polls stats and what people believe, will accomplish, zilch, nothing, nada.

Here's the only polls, stats and people that count LINK


There isn't an exact science for how to judge these types of fights, so I don't understand why people aren't open to different opinions. It's pretty subjective. It's not like this was a clear beating one way or another.

Personally I'll never respect Floyd as a fighter, but he's a great business man. I just don't understand how you can agree to fight someone, and then get in the ring and avoid a fight. It's just silly. But it makes sense if your only aim is to make money.

I'm open to and hold respect for different opinions. It was a clear win in my eyes and in the eyes of the judges, ringside announcers, Lederman, Weisfield. They all had Floyd winning. If you saw it differently I respect your view. I don't agree with it but I respect it.

You strike me as a fan who wants blood and guts. I do too but I also respect the sweet science, hit and not be hit.

You don't understand why a fighter who's fought the same way for 19 years would continue to do so? What did you expect?

Boxing is Floyd's job. He's a professional boxer. He goes to the office, which happens to be a ring, to make money. When you go to work what's the purpose? Isn't it to make money? Does it not follow Floyd should do the same?

I don't understand why some people can't see that.


Translation:

I totally respect different opinions.

Now let me make assumptions about you and create a narrative about what how you came to your opinion so that I can devalue your opinion. I can now argue against the fabricated narrative that I've created about you.

Assumptions and opinions are two different animals. Making things up? You're going to argue against something you created. How can you lose a argument against yourself?


You made up a narrative about how he viewed the fight and what he wants.

That's not an opinion. It's something that is either true or untrue.

Then you claim to not understand how someone could have such an opinion, when he never stated that was his reasoning. It was your reasoning.

What narrative?
Quote:
You strike me as a fan who wants blood and guts.
is a observation.

His not understanding was a question
Quote:
I just don't understand how you can agree to fight someone, and then get in the ring and avoid a fight.
Quote:
You don't understand why a fighter who's fought the same way for 19 years would continue to do so? What did you expect?
Read all the way to the end. Absorb, dissect, assimilate.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Catch weight at 154 with Triple G vs Mayweather would be the only fight left, I would pay for in the welterweight, or lightweight divisions.

Amir Khan or or that overrated Desert Storm against Mayweather would be like watching old people park at Costco. Slow and tortures. No thanks. Mayweather can retire after September, the sport wouldn't be any different with him or without him. The only reason he has made so much money in his fights the last 5 years is because there is no other fights. Not in any division.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 1:02 pm    Post subject:

I wouldn't want to see Floyd fight Genaddy, he doesn't hit hard enough. You see how he took Monroe's hardest shots.

Golovkin would track him down and knock him out. He's is one of the best I've seen at cutting off the ring. To avoid him Floyd would literally have to turn his back and sprint to stay alive.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
jodeke wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
The judges had it for Floyd. The HBO people who backs Manny had it for Floyd. weisfeld and Lederman had it for Floyd. Most people ring side had it for Floyd. With that said, Manny won. Dude was offered 40M and walked away with 120M+.


I don't doubt that there are fans who believe Manny won but it doesn't matter what they believe.

Posting, polls stats and what people believe, will accomplish, zilch, nothing, nada.

Here's the only polls, stats and people that count LINK


There isn't an exact science for how to judge these types of fights, so I don't understand why people aren't open to different opinions. It's pretty subjective. It's not like this was a clear beating one way or another.

Personally I'll never respect Floyd as a fighter, but he's a great business man. I just don't understand how you can agree to fight someone, and then get in the ring and avoid a fight. It's just silly. But it makes sense if your only aim is to make money.

I'm open to and hold respect for different opinions. It was a clear win in my eyes and in the eyes of the judges, ringside announcers, Lederman, Weisfield. They all had Floyd winning. If you saw it differently I respect your view. I don't agree with it but I respect it.

You strike me as a fan who wants blood and guts. I do too but I also respect the sweet science, hit and not be hit.

You don't understand why a fighter who's fought the same way for 19 years would continue to do so? What did you expect?

Boxing is Floyd's job. He's a professional boxer. He goes to the office, which happens to be a ring, to make money. When you go to work what's the purpose? Isn't it to make money? Does it not follow Floyd should do the same?

I don't understand why some people can't see that.


Translation:

I totally respect different opinions.

Now let me make assumptions about you and create a narrative about what how you came to your opinion so that I can devalue your opinion. I can now argue against the fabricated narrative that I've created about you.

Assumptions and opinions are two different animals. Making things up? You're going to argue against something you created. How can you lose a argument against yourself?


You made up a narrative about how he viewed the fight and what he wants.

That's not an opinion. It's something that is either true or untrue.

Then you claim to not understand how someone could have such an opinion, when he never stated that was his reasoning. It was your reasoning.

What narrative?
Quote:
You strike me as a fan who wants blood and guts.
is a observation.


Perhaps such a loaded observation is why you have such a hard time understanding the other side?
Quote:

His not understanding was a question
Quote:
I just don't understand how you can agree to fight someone, and then get in the ring and avoid a fight.
Quote:
You don't understand why a fighter who's fought the same way for 19 years would continue to do so? What did you expect?
Read all the way to the end. Absorb, dissect, assimilate.


You were pretty much telling him that he doesn't understand boxing, and therefore he can't appreciate Mayweather the way you could.

This might be true. It also might not. But it's pretty much the opposite of respecting someone else's opinion to make such an assumption because you can't respect someone's opinion at the same time you are calling it inferior.

I'm not quite sure that anyone is saying that they expected Floyd to not be a defensive fighter. But his running away style will always rub some people the wrong way. For some of us, defense is applauded as long as you go on offense also. A match purely based on running was a good technical choice because Floyd's rep allows him to run without being docked in the judges minds.

Floyd knows what he can get away with and knows that it's not a fight, it's a points match. He is a smart businessman. He won the boxing match. But many looked at it as him not winning the "fight".

It's a completely legitimate take to have, and easy to understand if you don't try to twist it into something else.

P.S. Please read this is the most light heated tone possible. I understand things in written foem can come across more aggressive than they are meant.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I wouldn't want to see Floyd fight Genaddy, he doesn't hit hard enough. You see how he took Monroe's hardest shots.

Golovkin would track him down and knock him out. He's is one of the best I've seen at cutting off the ring. To avoid him Floyd would literally have to turn his back and sprint to stay alive.


I think Kevin Kelly it best. What's next after GGG, Klitchsko? I just think Golovkin is too big for him even if its at a catch weight. Going into the fight, GGG would probably be twenty pounds heavier than Floyd and I don't think we'd want to see another pure boxing match because Floyd would definitely be on his bike.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:

Quote:
You were pretty much telling him that he doesn't understand boxing, and therefore he can't appreciate Mayweather the way you could.

This might be true. It also might not. But it's pretty much the opposite of respecting someone else's opinion to make such an assumption because you can't respect someone's opinion at the same time you are calling it inferior.

I'm not quite sure that anyone is saying that they expected Floyd to not be a defensive fighter. But his running away style will always rub some people the wrong way. For some of us, defense is applauded as long as you go on offense also. A match purely based on running was a good technical choice because Floyd's rep allows him to run without being docked in the judges minds.

Floyd knows what he can get away with and knows that it's not a fight, it's a points match. He is a smart businessman. He won the boxing match. But many looked at it as him not winning the "fight".

It's a completely legitimate take to have, and easy to understand if you don't try to twist it into something else.

P.S. Please read this is the most light heated tone possible. I understand things in written foem can come across more aggressive than they are meant.

I wasn't telling him anything, that's your interpretation. I asked a question.

I didn't assume anything, I asked a question. You made it an assumption. I respect his opinion, you say I don't. You're calling it inferior not me.

You're putting your reasoning in my head. They're not my reasons, they're yours.

You and "some of us" people for who you've appointed yourself spokesperson, can applaud or not Floyd's approach to boxing. As I said I respect your view, I don't agree with it.

There are rules to the game, Floyd follows them. If you don't like the rules I suggest you not watch Floyd.

OK, many may look at him as not winning the fight. Adversely, many may look at him as winning it.

So if I'm reading you right, you're angry because Floyd plays by the rules and wins. You want him to go toe to toe, something he's never done, to appease you? For-gid-about-it.

I read it with light heated tone for sure. Remember when a poster put him/herself in our conversation and you said "It's all in fun?" That resonated.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:58 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Reflexx wrote:

Quote:
You were pretty much telling him that he doesn't understand boxing, and therefore he can't appreciate Mayweather the way you could.

This might be true. It also might not. But it's pretty much the opposite of respecting someone else's opinion to make such an assumption because you can't respect someone's opinion at the same time you are calling it inferior.

I'm not quite sure that anyone is saying that they expected Floyd to not be a defensive fighter. But his running away style will always rub some people the wrong way. For some of us, defense is applauded as long as you go on offense also. A match purely based on running was a good technical choice because Floyd's rep allows him to run without being docked in the judges minds.

Floyd knows what he can get away with and knows that it's not a fight, it's a points match. He is a smart businessman. He won the boxing match. But many looked at it as him not winning the "fight".

It's a completely legitimate take to have, and easy to understand if you don't try to twist it into something else.

P.S. Please read this is the most light heated tone possible. I understand things in written foem can come across more aggressive than they are meant.

I wasn't telling him anything, that's your interpretation. I asked a question.

I didn't assume anything, I asked a question. You made it an assumption. I respect his opinion, you say I don't. You're calling it inferior not me.

You're putting your reasoning in my head. They're not my reasons, they're yours.

You and "some of us" people for who you've appointed yourself spokesperson, can applaud or not Floyd's approach to boxing. As I said I respect your view, I don't agree with it.

There are rules to the game, Floyd follows them. If you don't like the rules I suggest you not watch Floyd.

OK, many may look at him as not winning the fight. Adversely, many may look at him as winning it.

So if I'm reading you right, you're angry because Floyd plays by the rules and wins. You want him to go toe to toe, something he's never done, to appease you? For-gid-about-it.

I read it with light heated tone for sure. Remember when a poster put him/herself in our conversation and you said "It's all in fun?" That resonated.


Perhaps I interpreted your post wrong. It seemed to imply that the reason he didn't agree with you was because he preferred some undisciplined slug fest. It stood out to me because that seems to be the common accusation. I've seen it several times. And I really haven't seen supporting evidence, so I'm not sure why that keeps coming up.

As for me representing others, that's not the case. I am just trying to give you perspective that maybe you didn't take into account. I know there are some who think Pac was robbed. I do not share that opinion, but I also think it's an acceptable view to have if you value aggression when you judge a fight.

It's very possible to think that Floyd won fair and square according to the rules and still not see him as the winner if you look at boxing in the same way it used to be 20 yrs ago.

As for the "reading it right" part... you didn't read me right. Maybe I haven't been clear in how I express myself. I'm not angry that Floyd plays by the rules. I'm more unhappy with the sport itself that it would encourage such a tactic to exist. I'm more of the mindset of "boxing isn't what it used to be." To me, it's worse. To others, it might be an improvement.


Last edited by Reflexx on Sun May 17, 2015 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Some Floyd fans thinks that those who find him boring does not understand boxing. Contrary to that many boxers thinks Floyd is boring.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:09 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Reflexx wrote:

Quote:
You were pretty much telling him that he doesn't understand boxing, and therefore he can't appreciate Mayweather the way you could.

This might be true. It also might not. But it's pretty much the opposite of respecting someone else's opinion to make such an assumption because you can't respect someone's opinion at the same time you are calling it inferior.

I'm not quite sure that anyone is saying that they expected Floyd to not be a defensive fighter. But his running away style will always rub some people the wrong way. For some of us, defense is applauded as long as you go on offense also. A match purely based on running was a good technical choice because Floyd's rep allows him to run without being docked in the judges minds.

Floyd knows what he can get away with and knows that it's not a fight, it's a points match. He is a smart businessman. He won the boxing match. But many looked at it as him not winning the "fight".

It's a completely legitimate take to have, and easy to understand if you don't try to twist it into something else.

P.S. Please read this is the most light heated tone possible. I understand things in written foem can come across more aggressive than they are meant.

I wasn't telling him anything, that's your interpretation. I asked a question.

I didn't assume anything, I asked a question. You made it an assumption. I respect his opinion, you say I don't. You're calling it inferior not me.

You're putting your reasoning in my head. They're not my reasons, they're yours.

You and "some of us" people for who you've appointed yourself spokesperson, can applaud or not Floyd's approach to boxing. As I said I respect your view, I don't agree with it.

There are rules to the game, Floyd follows them. If you don't like the rules I suggest you not watch Floyd.

OK, many may look at him as not winning the fight. Adversely, many may look at him as winning it.

So if I'm reading you right, you're angry because Floyd plays by the rules and wins. You want him to go toe to toe, something he's never done, to appease you? For-gid-about-it.

I read it with light heated tone for sure. Remember when a poster put him/herself in our conversation and you said "It's all in fun?" That resonated.


Perhaps I interpreted your post wrong. It seemed to imply that the reason he didn't agree with you was because he preferred some undisciplined slug fest. It stood out to me because that seems to be the common accusation. I've seen it several times. And I really haven't seen supporting evidence, so I'm not sure why that keeps coming up.

As for me representing others, that's not the case. I am just trying to give you perspective that maybe you didn't take into account. I know there are some who think Pac was robbed. I do not share that opinion, but I also think it's an acceptable view to have if you value aggression when you judge a fight.

It's very possible to think that Floyd won fair and square according to the rules and still not see him as the winner if you look at boxing in the same way it used to be 20 yrs ago.

As for the "reading it right" part... you didn't read me right. Maybe I haven't been clear in how I express myself. I'm not angry that Floyd plays by the rules. I'm more unhappy with the sport itself that it would encourage such a tactic to exist. I'm more of the mindset of "boxing isn't what it used to be." To me, it's worse. To others, it might be an improvement.

I didn't see where ziggy and I disagreed. He said he didn't understand why people weren't open to different opinions, I answered they were. Said if he saw it differently I respected his view, didn't agree but respected it.

This is the first I've read that you were unhappy with the sport, I got the impression you didn't like Floyd's tactics. you thought he should stand up and fight instead of stick and move.

I'm going to go out on a limb and opinion, your dislike of Floyd goes deeper than the ring. I believe some stems from his flamboyant lifestyle, braggadocios personality and his treatment of women. I don't like those things about him but I separate them from his job.

I could be wrong I get that impression about many who dislike him.

You say you want boxing to be the way it used to be. Ever heard of Willie Pep, Willie Pastrano, Hedgemond Lewis, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Patterson? Ever see them fight?

They called Pastano the dancer because he moved so much. Hedgemond had Indian Red Lopez beat for 9 rounds. Red was a bloody mess. He went toe to toe in the 10th and got knocked out. I asked him why, he had the fight won, why did he do it. He said, "Man I just gotta knock him out." Floyd won't make that mistake.

Floyd didn't introduce this style of fighting. It's been in the game since the games inception.

It's a new day a new game. It'll never be like "the good ol days."
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Last edited by jodeke on Sun May 17, 2015 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject:

ryan_c wrote:
Some Floyd fans thinks that those who find him boring does not understand boxing. Contrary to that many boxers thinks Floyd is boring.


Just let it go and move on.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:32 pm    Post subject:

Nissan wrote:
ryan_c wrote:
Some Floyd fans thinks that those who find him boring does not understand boxing. Contrary to that many boxers thinks Floyd is boring.


Just let it go and move on.


This is a Pac vs Mayweather thread.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:46 pm    Post subject:

ryan_c wrote:
Some Floyd fans thinks that those who find him boring does not understand boxing. Contrary to that many boxers thinks Floyd is boring.

How many of the "boxers" would change to his boring style if in changing they would and also get his record and money?
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
ryan_c wrote:
Some Floyd fans thinks that those who find him boring does not understand boxing. Contrary to that many boxers thinks Floyd is boring.

How many of the "boxers" would change to his boring style if in changing they would and also get his record and money?


And so? Castillo beat him in their first fight. Floyd would not have bragged about something with a decision given to the proper winner.

How much Floyd is earning before the Oscar fight? Floyd has the perfect opponent at the perfect time. I can't imagine Floyd increasing his stock without Oscar as his opponent.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:34 pm    Post subject:

ryan_c wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ryan_c wrote:
Some Floyd fans thinks that those who find him boring does not understand boxing. Contrary to that many boxers thinks Floyd is boring.

How many of the "boxers" would change to his boring style if in changing they would and also get his record and money?


And so? Castillo beat him in their first fight. Floyd would not have bragged about something with a decision given to the proper winner.

How much Floyd is earning before the Oscar fight? Floyd has the perfect opponent at the perfect time. I can't imagine Floyd increasing his stock without Oscar as his opponent.

If Castillo beat him why is his record 48 0? I know the Ol Texas Side Step is on the way, the officials were wrong.

He gave Castillo a rematch and won AGAIN. Was that also a bad decision or were the judges wrong again?

Manny was relatively unknown before he fought Oscar. What would have been his stock without that fight? Why didn't he start to earn like Floyd after he beat him?
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Last edited by jodeke on Sun May 17, 2015 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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marga86
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject:

jo, i like this side of u
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:51 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

I didn't see where ziggy and I disagreed. He said he didn't understand why people weren't open to different opinions, I answered they were. Said if he saw it differently I respected his view, didn't agree but respected it.

This is the first I've read that you were unhappy with the sport, I got the impression you didn't like Floyd's tactics. you thought he should stand up and fight instead of stick and move.

I'm going to go out on a limb and opinion, your dislike of Floyd goes deeper than the ring. I believe some stems from his flamboyant lifestyle, braggadocios personality and his treatment of women. I don't like those things about him but I separate them from his job.

I could be wrong I get that impression about many who dislike him.

You say you want boxing to be the way it used to be. Ever heard of Willie Pep, Willie Pastrano, Hedgemond Lewis, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Patterson? Ever see them fight?

They called Pastano the dancer because he moved so much. Hedgemond had Indian Red Lopez beat for 9 rounds. Red was a bloody mess. He went toe to toe in the 10th and got knocked out. I asked him why, he had the fight won, why did he do it. He said, "Man I just gotta knock him out." Floyd won't make that mistake.

Floyd didn't introduce this style of fighting. It's been in the game since the games inception.

It's a new day a new game. It'll never be like "the good ol days."


Sure I don't like Floyd. But it's not because of this fight.

Old school fighters did dodge and evade. But they picked points in the fight to attack too. They didn't necessarily go toe to toe if that wasn't their strength, but they did make sure to go on the offensive.

I see Floyd as a product of the times. The changes in boxing created him. Not the other way around.

But I do think that because of his rep as a defensive fighter, he gets leeway when he plays defense practically the whole fight. Rarely if ever truly initiating other than rabbit punches.

If his opponent does the same, but doesn't have that rep, then that opponent loses because those exact same methods will be interpreted as "unable to figure out Floyd's defenses" and "too fearful of the counter-punch".
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:11 pm    Post subject:

I prefer a boring winner over an exciting loser any day.

Going into the fight, we all knew it was on Manny to press the action.
Floyd ended up throwing more punches. I figured Floyd would win, but I didn't see that coming.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:45 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:

I didn't see where ziggy and I disagreed. He said he didn't understand why people weren't open to different opinions, I answered they were. Said if he saw it differently I respected his view, didn't agree but respected it.

This is the first I've read that you were unhappy with the sport, I got the impression you didn't like Floyd's tactics. you thought he should stand up and fight instead of stick and move.

I'm going to go out on a limb and opinion, your dislike of Floyd goes deeper than the ring. I believe some stems from his flamboyant lifestyle, braggadocios personality and his treatment of women. I don't like those things about him but I separate them from his job.

I could be wrong I get that impression about many who dislike him.

You say you want boxing to be the way it used to be. Ever heard of Willie Pep, Willie Pastrano, Hedgemond Lewis, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Patterson? Ever see them fight?

They called Pastano the dancer because he moved so much. Hedgemond had Indian Red Lopez beat for 9 rounds. Red was a bloody mess. He went toe to toe in the 10th and got knocked out. I asked him why, he had the fight won, why did he do it. He said, "Man I just gotta knock him out." Floyd won't make that mistake.

Floyd didn't introduce this style of fighting. It's been in the game since the games inception.

It's a new day a new game. It'll never be like "the good ol days."


Sure I don't like Floyd. But it's not because of this fight.

Old school fighters did dodge and evade. But they picked points in the fight to attack too. They didn't necessarily go toe to toe if that wasn't their strength, but they did make sure to go on the offensive.

I see Floyd as a product of the times. The changes in boxing created him. Not the other way around.

But I do think that because of his rep as a defensive fighter, he gets leeway when he plays defense practically the whole fight. Rarely if ever truly initiating other than rabbit punches.

If his opponent does the same, but doesn't have that rep, then that opponent loses because those exact same methods will be interpreted as "unable to figure out Floyd's defenses" and "too fearful of the counter-punch".

You're not being honest.

Ol school fighters are basically the same as today's fighters. They fought when they had to ducked and dodged when it was called for. The canvas jungle calls for both cunning and bravery, not just one or the other.

One day search the fight between Yvon Durelle and Archie Moore. Durelle knocked Moore down IIRC six times. Archie was in a cover defensive mode, bent low at the waist, arms crossed over his face. If you watch closely you'll see Archie's one eye peeking between his arms. Durelle was wailing away, Mongoose was peeking. All of a sudden Moore unleashed, IIRC, a right Durelle had no idea was coming, he thought Moore was finished and left himself wide open. He got KDFO.

Watch Floyd's fights with Maidana. Watch how many times he was on the ropes and Maidana was the one to back out of the exchanges. Don't be fooled as to think Floyd didn't allow Maidana to get him on the ropes. He used the ol rope a dope, his corner was telling him not to.

Watch his fight with Manny, count the times he exchanged with him. See who backs out. Floyd sometimes, Manny sometimes

Watch his fight with Mosley. When Mosley rocked his world Floyd went to work. He fought when he had to boxed when he had to. In the post fight interview he said, Mosley was going to have to kill him to win that fight. Floyd has more heart than some give him credit for.

Back him in a corner and the beast in him, as it would any other animal, comes out. Survival become the fight mode.

What you described is what Manny went through. He was afraid to throw punches because he knew he was going to be countered. You can use the shoulder excuse if you choose, he didn't. He couldn't figure Floyd out.

You say opponents don't get the leeway Floyd does. Are you saying judges like flamboyant, braggadocios, womanizing, Floyd more than the do other fighters?

Floyd's never going to please you and fans who watch fights the way you do and IMO, bring his private life to his job.

Fortunately the games not played just one way and decision are made on what happens in the ring not at home.
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I prefer a boring winner over an exciting loser any day.

Going into the fight, we all knew it was on Manny to press the action.
Floyd ended up throwing more punches. I figured Floyd would win, but I didn't see that coming.
and this is the key that only a few have spoken on.

How did floyd make manny fight a non manny fight? Thats where you see the genius in his boxing skill/ability.

The sweet science.

The other sweet science is his ability to not just block punches or move away with his feet. It's also his ability to roll with your punches absorbing some of the blow to his shoulders and releasing it every time he roles. if you watch closely he's doing something a martial artist would do to protect himself from a direct blow. it's like someone hitting you in the side of the jaw but you're smart enough to know its coming. You can't move out of the way, so you lit the punch connect while you're turning the same direction as the punch is going. This will reduce the Power behind the blow to your face. It's physics. This is why Mayweather with his can't read self is one of the if not thee smartest boxer of all time.

DEFENSE


^^if you cant see the mastery in this. I dont know what to tell you. Sure it would be great if he knocked these guys out with a roy jones blow. but he aint roy. he's not as large as roy and doesnt have the power that roy possessed. if he did, more guys would fall. Should Floyd fight the fight of a guy with more knock out power that he doesnt possess, just to appease the fans and lose? When he knows he can KO a guy. He does. If not, he wont. Only an idiot would go for a KO when he doesnt believe he can KO the guy. Thats like suicide. You're trying to lose in that scenario.

OFFENSE



If he knows he can tag the person he will. It's that simple. I was a hatton fan and he made hatton look silly.
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:14 pm    Post subject:

the funny thing about the fight was that Floyd knew he was fighting a one-armed man... and still run away from the fight. of course, the Floyd bias worked to perfection, it's like he's got the judges under his spell... as I've called it time and time again. Manny initiated the contact, if it was somebody else not named Floyd, Manny would have been the runaway winner. but it's Floyd's hometown, it's Floyd's system, he is judged differently than the rest. heck, Manny can't even get a simple painkiller while Floyd gets his.

beating a one-armed man was not the accomplishment, it was earning 250 million doing it.
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:31 pm    Post subject:

ryan_c wrote:
Jodeke(floyd fanatic), tried to intimidate with color red font. So here we go.

It could also be argued that Manny Pacquiao was the clear winner

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-3077424/The-punch-statistics-prove-Floyd-Mayweather-fortunate-beat-Manny-Pacquiao-unanimous-decision.html
[/quote]

that was really accurate, wow!
but as I've said over and over again, it's Floyd's system, it's Floyd's people, the fight almost felt like staged.... but these stats won't matter to some because they just aren't capable of being objective fans... they would not listen.
it was clear from the get go that Floyd was going to be favored no matter what. (no painkillers for Manny because of "missing" paperwork... shoddy shady handiwork from someone... hmmm...)... Manny was tested weekly, blood drawn weekly... hmmm...
going back to the stats... I can't believe compubox stats had Floyd leading because I counted rounds myself... Manny landed more, Floyd fewer, but compubox had it for Floyd, it was mind boggling, but not really because I expected it to favor Floyd. again, Maidana threw 800+ punches and still lost, compubox even had Floyd landing more, that was mathematically improbable.
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:40 pm    Post subject:

drifts you and your boy ryan are delusional. stop it already now. lol. This is getting ridiculous. This is not an opinion thing. It's a factual thing. Pac lost. And it wa san OBVIOUS LOSS. Beating a one armed man.. haa haa. Like when floyd broke his hand and still beat his opponent. Floyd's system? ha haa. Floyd's hometown?

what did that have to do with how many punches floyd landed when we all thought combo manny would throw so many more. What does Floyd's judges/system/hometown have to do with floyd making manny miss?

drifts you said you counted yourself. If you counted the punches landed and you came out with many landed more punches even at a more accurate rate i'm so glad you will never be a judge. you suck as a ringside judge. please dont quit your day job. drifts is that lady who gave Bradley the fight over manny.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:29 am    Post subject:

hoopla wrote:
drifts you and your boy ryan are delusional. stop it already now. lol. This is getting ridiculous. This is not an opinion thing. It's a factual thing. Pac lost. And it wa san OBVIOUS LOSS. Beating a one armed man.. haa haa. Like when floyd broke his hand and still beat his opponent. Floyd's system? ha haa. Floyd's hometown?

what did that have to do with how many punches floyd landed when we all thought combo manny would throw so many more. What does Floyd's judges/system/hometown have to do with floyd making manny miss?

drifts you said you counted yourself. If you counted the punches landed and you came out with many landed more punches even at a more accurate rate i'm so glad you will never be a judge. you suck as a ringside judge. please dont quit your day job. drifts is that lady who gave Bradley the fight over manny.


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