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Honeybadger81 Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2014 Posts: 1253
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | Don Draper wrote: | Honeybadger81 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | Juneway wrote: | bonkers wrote: | Evan Turner sucks. That is all. |
A friendly reminder for those people in the tanking ship: Turner was a top 3 pick! | Not all top picks are bad. Look at Bennet. |
Wes, TRob, Kanter, Thabeet, Derrick Williams, Waiters all top 5 picks....... and on on on .... |
MJ, Magic, Worthy, Shaq, Hakeem, Durant, LeBron, Howard, CP3, Pau, Yao, Wade, Carmelo, Wall, Irving, Love, Griffin, Bosh, Westbrook...
Fact is the top 5 gives you the best SHOT at greatness. Obviously there will still be duds. |
Exactly, and that is really the only way the Lakers will improve right now. They badly need to rebuild thru the draft. Losing that pick will hurt bad....I guess these guys don't care since they probably won't be cheering for the Lakers next year. |
I just believe that the Lakers should be a franchise of integrity. Maybe it's just the way I was raised. |
Yeah, the Lakers played with integrity and the NBA jobbed them on the CP3 deal.....
Fact is all owners around the league have gone out of their way to screw the Lakers for years now...just ask Dan Gilbert. |
So you believe that if others act without integrity then we should too?
I guess we have different values. |
Whats hilarious is that you think the rest of the league plays fair...they don't.
The fact is that the other teams will be happy to steal the Lakers glory and lunch money and "fans" like you will be ignorant of that. |
You're just making excuses because you know that the behavior you want is unethical.
You want to be unethical too. I dont. |
Whats hilarious is you equate tanking with ethics...its not.
If it was unethical the league would've put a stop to it a long time ago and punished teams for doing it. |
come on, guys... we did not win against the 76ers tonight, it is the freaking Celtics!! |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: |
Whats hilarious is you equate tanking with ethics...its not.
If it was unethical the league would've put a stop to it a long time ago and punished teams for doing it. | The league has been trying to put a stop to it. It's just hard to prove.
I think it's kind of sad that you don't realize that this is about ethics. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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option_nerd Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2014 Posts: 147
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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it is unethical when fans want the team to tank but then criticize them for playing bad: Boozer, Ronnie, Lin, Sacre, Wes, Nick, and ect., except Clarkson. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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There are rules against tanking.
Seems like you are arguing that it's not unethical to tank because the NBA has been unable to pin it on anyone? |
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purple.23 Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Oct 2014 Posts: 592
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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i bet yall that these guys just don't care now. they know that they won't be here next year so they aint gonna be sucking for this team. they care if the lakers don't the the pick?! screw the fo and bs! |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: |
There are rules against tanking.
Seems like you are arguing that it's not unethical to tank because the NBA has been unable to pin it on anyone? |
Go find me those rules....
If anything Philly has been making what would be considered "tanking" moves in the open at the beginning of the season and their GM has openly talked about it...
I don't see anybody from the league office punishing them for it.
From that article, Adam Silver has this to say.
Quote: | "No player is going out there to lose. In terms of management, I think there's an absolute legitimate rebuilding process that goes on. It's so hard to win in this league, and it's so complex.
"I think what's happened in the case of Philadelphia -- their strategy has been reduced into a tweet. This notion, 'be bad to be good.' ... When it gets reduced into a headline, I understand the reaction." |
Last edited by lakersken80 on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tyusedney1 Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 408
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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lol Byron Scott thinks Price turned the game around. headofsnake is the MVP in Byron's mind once again folks! |
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What'sLinsanity? Sixth Man
Joined: 09 Oct 2014 Posts: 34
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Byron Scott looked angry after we won the game.
"How dare Jeremy Lin play well on my team!" |
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Beto Rookie
Joined: 12 Dec 2014 Posts: 20
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Reflexx"] lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
You keep telling yourself that when we become mired in perpetual mediocrity...... |
Unlike the 76's?
I dont need to tell myself anything. I already know that purposely losing is wrong. Not something I'd have to remind myself. |
Or the Clippers years back. How many great draft picks, all for nothing. Our current injury situation reminds me enough of the Clippers back then; no need for more. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
There are rules against tanking.
Seems like you are arguing that it's not unethical to tank because the NBA has been unable to pin it on anyone? |
Go find me those rules....
If anything Philly has been making what would be considered "tanking" moves in the open at the beginning of the season and their GM has openly talked about it...
I don't see anybody from the league office punishing them for it.
From that article, Adam Silver has this to say.
Quote: | "No player is going out there to lose. In terms of management, I think there's an absolute legitimate rebuilding process that goes on. It's so hard to win in this league, and it's so complex.
"I think what's happened in the case of Philadelphia -- their strategy has been reduced into a tweet. This notion, 'be bad to be good.' ... When it gets reduced into a headline, I understand the reaction." |
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I'm not going to search for rules. There would be no mention of "tanking". But there are surely rules against throwing games, which is what purposeful tanking is.
I understand rebuilding. I understand seeing what the rooks can do. But every time a coach puts a player on the floor, the team has to try to win. The coach has to want to bring the most out of developing players so they win.
Are you arguing that it is not unethical to throw games? |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
There are rules against tanking.
Seems like you are arguing that it's not unethical to tank because the NBA has been unable to pin it on anyone? |
Go find me those rules....
If anything Philly has been making what would be considered "tanking" moves in the open at the beginning of the season and their GM has openly talked about it...
I don't see anybody from the league office punishing them for it.
From that article, Adam Silver has this to say.
Quote: | "No player is going out there to lose. In terms of management, I think there's an absolute legitimate rebuilding process that goes on. It's so hard to win in this league, and it's so complex.
"I think what's happened in the case of Philadelphia -- their strategy has been reduced into a tweet. This notion, 'be bad to be good.' ... When it gets reduced into a headline, I understand the reaction." |
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I'm not going to search for rules. There would be no mention of "tanking". But there are surely rules against throwing games, which is what purposeful tanking is.
I understand rebuilding. I understand seeing what the rooks can do. But every time a coach puts a player on the floor, the team has to try to win. The coach has to want to bring the most out of developing players so they win.
Are you arguing that it is not unethical to throw games? |
Of course you aren't going to search for it...because you won't be able to find it because its not against the rules.
BTW, assembling a piss poor roster isn't throwing a game....
By your definition the Lakers have been intentionally "throwing" games this season by signing journeyman players on 1 year contracts. It is only throwing a game when players intentionally points shave. I don't see anything of the sort being done. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
There are rules against tanking.
Seems like you are arguing that it's not unethical to tank because the NBA has been unable to pin it on anyone? |
Go find me those rules....
If anything Philly has been making what would be considered "tanking" moves in the open at the beginning of the season and their GM has openly talked about it...
I don't see anybody from the league office punishing them for it.
From that article, Adam Silver has this to say.
Quote: | "No player is going out there to lose. In terms of management, I think there's an absolute legitimate rebuilding process that goes on. It's so hard to win in this league, and it's so complex.
"I think what's happened in the case of Philadelphia -- their strategy has been reduced into a tweet. This notion, 'be bad to be good.' ... When it gets reduced into a headline, I understand the reaction." |
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I'm not going to search for rules. There would be no mention of "tanking". But there are surely rules against throwing games, which is what purposeful tanking is.
I understand rebuilding. I understand seeing what the rooks can do. But every time a coach puts a player on the floor, the team has to try to win. The coach has to want to bring the most out of developing players so they win.
Are you arguing that it is not unethical to throw games? |
Of course you aren't going to search for it...because you won't be able to find it because its not against the rules.
BTW, assembling a piss poor roster isn't throwing a game....
By your definition the Lakers have been intentionally "throwing" games this season by signing journeyman players on 1 year contracts. It is only throwing a game when players intentionally points shave. I don't see anything of the sort being done. |
People here are advocating that we should have purposely lost this game. There is anger about not losing.
This isn't about a weak roster and just having to go through the natural rebuilding process.
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether it's unethical to purposely lose games. |
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JIFISH Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 9315 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
There are rules against tanking.
Seems like you are arguing that it's not unethical to tank because the NBA has been unable to pin it on anyone? |
Go find me those rules....
If anything Philly has been making what would be considered "tanking" moves in the open at the beginning of the season and their GM has openly talked about it...
I don't see anybody from the league office punishing them for it.
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The NBA in 1982 fined Donald Sterling $10,000, the largest sum ever levied against an owner at the time, after he commented that he would accept the Clippers finishing in last place in order to draft an impact player like Ralph Sampson. link _________________ I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question - Richard Feynman |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
There are rules against tanking.
Seems like you are arguing that it's not unethical to tank because the NBA has been unable to pin it on anyone? |
Go find me those rules....
If anything Philly has been making what would be considered "tanking" moves in the open at the beginning of the season and their GM has openly talked about it...
I don't see anybody from the league office punishing them for it.
From that article, Adam Silver has this to say.
Quote: | "No player is going out there to lose. In terms of management, I think there's an absolute legitimate rebuilding process that goes on. It's so hard to win in this league, and it's so complex.
"I think what's happened in the case of Philadelphia -- their strategy has been reduced into a tweet. This notion, 'be bad to be good.' ... When it gets reduced into a headline, I understand the reaction." |
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I'm not going to search for rules. There would be no mention of "tanking". But there are surely rules against throwing games, which is what purposeful tanking is.
I understand rebuilding. I understand seeing what the rooks can do. But every time a coach puts a player on the floor, the team has to try to win. The coach has to want to bring the most out of developing players so they win.
Are you arguing that it is not unethical to throw games? |
Of course you aren't going to search for it...because you won't be able to find it because its not against the rules.
BTW, assembling a piss poor roster isn't throwing a game....
By your definition the Lakers have been intentionally "throwing" games this season by signing journeyman players on 1 year contracts. It is only throwing a game when players intentionally points shave. I don't see anything of the sort being done. |
People here are advocating that we should have purposely lost this game. There is anger about not losing.
This isn't about a weak roster and just having to go through the natural rebuilding process.
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether it's unethical to purposely lose games. |
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether its against the rules to tank...
See we can both play the faux moral superiority angle. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: |
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether its against the rules to tank...
See we can both play the faux moral superiority angle. |
So, you didn't look at the link above where Sterling was fined?
Either you believe it's okay to lose on purpose or you don't.
My position is that it is unethical. Your position is... something that you want to avoid stating. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: |
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether its against the rules to tank...
See we can both play the faux moral superiority angle. |
So, you didn't look at the link above where Sterling was fined?
Either you believe it's okay to lose on purpose or you don't.
My position is that it is unethical. Your position is... something that you want to avoid stating. |
Wrong.
Your opinion is that tanking is unethical...
Mines is that tanking has nothing to do with ethics. You fail to understand this at all. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: |
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether its against the rules to tank...
See we can both play the faux moral superiority angle. |
So, you didn't look at the link above where Sterling was fined?
Either you believe it's okay to lose on purpose or you don't.
My position is that it is unethical. Your position is... something that you want to avoid stating. |
Wrong.
Your opinion is that tanking is unethical...
Mines is that tanking has nothing to do with ethics. You fail to understand this at all. |
LoL. Okay. So you believe that purposely losing has nothing to do with ethics.
Ok. |
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mhan00 Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32025
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:16 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Don Draper wrote: | Honeybadger81 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | Juneway wrote: | bonkers wrote: | Evan Turner sucks. That is all. |
A friendly reminder for those people in the tanking ship: Turner was a top 3 pick! | Not all top picks are bad. Look at Bennet. |
Wes, TRob, Kanter, Thabeet, Derrick Williams, Waiters all top 5 picks....... and on on on .... |
MJ, Magic, Worthy, Shaq, Hakeem, Durant, LeBron, Howard, CP3, Pau, Yao, Wade, Carmelo, Wall, Irving, Love, Griffin, Bosh, Westbrook...
Fact is the top 5 gives you the best SHOT at greatness. Obviously there will still be duds. |
Exactly, and that is really the only way the Lakers will improve right now. They badly need to rebuild thru the draft. Losing that pick will hurt bad....I guess these guys don't care since they probably won't be cheering for the Lakers next year. |
Meh. My rooting for the Lakers and enjoying a rare win this season affects absolutely nothing. The Lakers will either keep their pick or not, nothing I do or feel affects that. So I will do what I always have, just watch the games and enjoy the wins, especially when the games are as exciting as tonight's was. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:12 am Post subject: |
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tyusedney1 wrote: | lol Byron Scott thinks Price turned the game around. headofsnake is the MVP in Byron's mind once again folks! |
Price did ignite the comeback with his defense and passing. For one short period Price defensively wreaked havoc on the Celtics. Lin, Wes, Swag & Booze took over from there. |
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bws94 Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014 Posts: 1563
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:46 am Post subject: |
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pio2u wrote: | tyusedney1 wrote: | lol Byron Scott thinks Price turned the game around. headofsnake is the MVP in Byron's mind once again folks! |
Price did ignite the comeback with his defense and passing. For one short period Price defensively wreaked havoc on the Celtics. Lin, Wes, Swag & Booze took over from there. |
Scott coached the game well except for Clarkson's minutes. But, he still is a rookie and to win the game, more experienced players needed to be in and Price and Lin were making a bigger impact. Price did help turn the game around with his energy. I hope Byron talked of Lin, Wesley, and Young too. If the game has an MVP, it's Lin, especially how he played later in the 4th and OT. |
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WuKong Rookie
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 24
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:47 am Post subject: |
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hmm the theory is that tanking will or might be helpful but in fact the data prove differently... Numbers here that might make your head hurt but worth the read....
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/02/bad-to-good-the-treadmill-to-mediocrity/
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/solving-the-real-problem-with-the-nbas-tanking-epidemic/
"In Abbott’s “Does Tanking Even Work?” column, he references research done by Devin Dignam that works in tandem with this notion. Dignam looked back at all data from the past 27 years of the draft lottery (his piece was originally published in April 2012) and came up with some staggering results:
After four years — the amount of time on rookie scale contracts — about 31% of the teams with top three picks hadn’t made the playoffs even once. Almost 26% of these teams’ best showing was only the first round. And a further 22% of teams topped out in the second round. Only 17% of teams have managed to do better than the second round, with only two teams managing to win an NBA championship within four years of drafting their top three pick. Who were these two teams? In 1999, San Antonio won a championship in Tim Duncan’s second season. And in 2004, the Detroit Pistons won a championship in Darko Milicic’s rookie season. But Milicic only played in 159 regular season minutes that year. So we are being generous when we say that two teams have managed to win a championship within four years of landing a lottery pick."
"The Spurs lucked out in nabbing Tim Duncan in 1997, but they maintained their success by continually mining gems from the bargain bin or latter half of the draft. .....They draft the right players for the right coach and have a system in place to make them better."
TL:DR Trying to "win" a high lottery worked once with the Spurs and that was also due to a proper/ healthy system and coach in place to do something with that pick ( Tim Duncan).
It is just snake oil sold by GM's |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:19 am Post subject: |
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pio2u wrote: | tyusedney1 wrote: | lol Byron Scott thinks Price turned the game around. headofsnake is the MVP in Byron's mind once again folks! |
Price did ignite the comeback with his defense and passing. For one short period Price defensively wreaked havoc on the Celtics. Lin, Wes, Swag & Booze took over from there. |
Price has been able to be effective when there is enough attention away from him.
He does have fast hands and a workman's attitude. While he may lack some talent, he's going to be zoned in every minute that he's on the floor. So if someone doesn't take him seriously, they will get picked. |
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catman2u Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Oct 2014 Posts: 349
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:21 am Post subject: |
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bws94 wrote: | pio2u wrote: | tyusedney1 wrote: | lol Byron Scott thinks Price turned the game around. headofsnake is the MVP in Byron's mind once again folks! |
Price did ignite the comeback with his defense and passing. For one short period Price defensively wreaked havoc on the Celtics. Lin, Wes, Swag & Booze took over from there. |
Scott coached the game well except for Clarkson's minutes. But, he still is a rookie and to win the game, more experienced players needed to be in and Price and Lin were making a bigger impact. Price did help turn the game around with his energy. I hope Byron talked of Lin, Wesley, and Young too. If the game has an MVP, it's Lin, especially how he played later in the 4th and OT. |
Its too late now that the tank is no doubt offiialy on but there are many games in which the Lakers might have one if Lin had been given significant minutes at the end and in OT. Oh well. |
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MyKRo Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2003 Posts: 5750 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: |
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WuKong wrote: | hmm the theory is that tanking will or might be helpful but in fact the data prove differently... Numbers here that might make your head hurt but worth the read....
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/02/bad-to-good-the-treadmill-to-mediocrity/
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/solving-the-real-problem-with-the-nbas-tanking-epidemic/
"In Abbott’s “Does Tanking Even Work?” column, he references research done by Devin Dignam that works in tandem with this notion. Dignam looked back at all data from the past 27 years of the draft lottery (his piece was originally published in April 2012) and came up with some staggering results:
After four years — the amount of time on rookie scale contracts — about 31% of the teams with top three picks hadn’t made the playoffs even once. Almost 26% of these teams’ best showing was only the first round. And a further 22% of teams topped out in the second round. Only 17% of teams have managed to do better than the second round, with only two teams managing to win an NBA championship within four years of drafting their top three pick. Who were these two teams? In 1999, San Antonio won a championship in Tim Duncan’s second season. And in 2004, the Detroit Pistons won a championship in Darko Milicic’s rookie season. But Milicic only played in 159 regular season minutes that year. So we are being generous when we say that two teams have managed to win a championship within four years of landing a lottery pick."
"The Spurs lucked out in nabbing Tim Duncan in 1997, but they maintained their success by continually mining gems from the bargain bin or latter half of the draft. .....They draft the right players for the right coach and have a system in place to make them better."
TL:DR Trying to "win" a high lottery worked once with the Spurs and that was also due to a proper/ healthy system and coach in place to do something with that pick ( Tim Duncan).
It is just snake oil sold by GM's |
Lakers are in a different situation. They aren't trying to win the high lottery. We gotta keep our pick! If they fall out of the top 5, the pick goes to PHOENIX. That would be a disaster.
In this situation, tanking is the only logical road. |
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