|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
swoosh-it
Sixth Man
Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 94
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MyKRo wrote: | | WuKong wrote: | hmm the theory is that tanking will or might be helpful but in fact the data prove differently... Numbers here that might make your head hurt but worth the read....
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/02/bad-to-good-the-treadmill-to-mediocrity/
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/solving-the-real-problem-with-the-nbas-tanking-epidemic/
"In Abbott’s “Does Tanking Even Work?” column, he references research done by Devin Dignam that works in tandem with this notion. Dignam looked back at all data from the past 27 years of the draft lottery (his piece was originally published in April 2012) and came up with some staggering results:
After four years — the amount of time on rookie scale contracts — about 31% of the teams with top three picks hadn’t made the playoffs even once. Almost 26% of these teams’ best showing was only the first round. And a further 22% of teams topped out in the second round. Only 17% of teams have managed to do better than the second round, with only two teams managing to win an NBA championship within four years of drafting their top three pick. Who were these two teams? In 1999, San Antonio won a championship in Tim Duncan’s second season. And in 2004, the Detroit Pistons won a championship in Darko Milicic’s rookie season. But Milicic only played in 159 regular season minutes that year. So we are being generous when we say that two teams have managed to win a championship within four years of landing a lottery pick."
"The Spurs lucked out in nabbing Tim Duncan in 1997, but they maintained their success by continually mining gems from the bargain bin or latter half of the draft. .....They draft the right players for the right coach and have a system in place to make them better."
TL:DR Trying to "win" a high lottery worked once with the Spurs and that was also due to a proper/ healthy system and coach in place to do something with that pick ( Tim Duncan).
It is just snake oil sold by GM's |
Lakers are in a different situation. They aren't trying to win the high lottery. We gotta keep our pick! If they fall out of the top 5, the pick goes to PHOENIX. That would be a disaster.
In this situation, tanking is the only logical road. |
No worries, tank is strong! Fans need to have some excitement for a long year. Soaking in it while it lasts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
KLS
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rybee wrote: | | This is the Lin I thought we'd be getting at the beginning of the season... |
Unfortunately at the beginning of the season, Kobe demanded the ball and Scott concurred. His Princeton offense does not call for an attacking guard. But Scott wants this W so bad against the Celtics which he hated as a rival during his playing days, that he would risk the tank plan if only for 1 game. Next game, Lin will be back to 20 minutes or less and he probably will get no picks for him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KLS
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nashftw wrote: | what's with all the tank drama? there are 27 games to go, enough games left to go lower in the standings.
beating the celtics should be cause for joy, no matter the circumstances. |
X2. This is called the Lakers pride. Beat the Celtics at all cost. Have some pride in your proud franchise. This win makes up for the losing season. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mini Mamba
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6006
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| We were going to win another game eventually. I hate the Celtics so I'm glad we beat them. Now just lose to Minnesota both games we play them and lock up that 3rd spot! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KLS
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yong wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
It's not about being real, fake, or whatever fans.
Fact - We lose our pick to the Sixers if it falls out of the top 5.
Fact - We are currently in line to get the 4th pick, but the Magic are not too far behind.
Fact - Winning tonight's game pushed us closer to #5, when losing it could've helped solidify our position.
And my opinion - beating a Celtics' team that is just as scrubby as ours doesn't really hit home for me, personally, in terms of celebrating our age-old rivalry with them. Maybe it's just me, but Evan Turner vs. Nick Young isn't exactly as exciting as Magic vs. Bird.
Anyway, I guess we can just agree to disagree, since you also apparently see nothing wrong with keeping Boozer and Lin for another year... |
Fact- You are rooting to cheat. |
Fact - you fail to see the bigger picture. |
But the bigger picture is that the Celtics and the rest of the league will think the Lakers, that proud franchise with so much history, have lowered itself to the rank of the small market teams or teams without the proud history behind them, have become a laughing stock. If we do get a player this way and win a championship (which is unlikely that one draftee can do unless he is a Lebron or Kobe), the stigma of the Lakers having to cheat and betray the spirit of competitive bb will stay with this proud franchise for a long time to come. I rather they do it naturally. After Kobe has retired or he not being the dominant ball demanding player, other FAs will come to play for this proud franchise because of the tradition and that the franchise has the financial means to get a competitive roster, much like what Houston or the Clippers have done with Harden & CP3 who were not from their top 5 drafts but FAs. The Lakers have already got pretty good young talent in JC & Randle to develop and build around, and Lakers can still get good talents this and next year. By the way, winning this one game from your hated rivals is better than a manufactured record any day. It is not we are losing the top 5 picks for sure anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
foshowtime
Star Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2012
Posts: 4448
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: |
There are rules against tanking.
Seems like you are arguing that it's not unethical to tank because the NBA has been unable to pin it on anyone? |
Go find me those rules....
If anything Philly has been making what would be considered "tanking" moves in the open at the beginning of the season and their GM has openly talked about it...
I don't see anybody from the league office punishing them for it.
From that article, Adam Silver has this to say.
| Quote: | "No player is going out there to lose. In terms of management, I think there's an absolute legitimate rebuilding process that goes on. It's so hard to win in this league, and it's so complex.
"I think what's happened in the case of Philadelphia -- their strategy has been reduced into a tweet. This notion, 'be bad to be good.' ... When it gets reduced into a headline, I understand the reaction." |
|
I'm not going to search for rules. There would be no mention of "tanking". But there are surely rules against throwing games, which is what purposeful tanking is.
I understand rebuilding. I understand seeing what the rooks can do. But every time a coach puts a player on the floor, the team has to try to win. The coach has to want to bring the most out of developing players so they win.
Are you arguing that it is not unethical to throw games? |
Of course you aren't going to search for it...because you won't be able to find it because its not against the rules.
BTW, assembling a piss poor roster isn't throwing a game....
By your definition the Lakers have been intentionally "throwing" games this season by signing journeyman players on 1 year contracts. It is only throwing a game when players intentionally points shave. I don't see anything of the sort being done. |
People here are advocating that we should have purposely lost this game. There is anger about not losing.
This isn't about a weak roster and just having to go through the natural rebuilding process.
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether it's unethical to purposely lose games. |
Because we should have! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
foshowtime
Star Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2012
Posts: 4448
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: |
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether its against the rules to tank...
See we can both play the faux moral superiority angle. |
So, you didn't look at the link above where Sterling was fined?
Either you believe it's okay to lose on purpose or you don't.
My position is that it is unethical. Your position is... something that you want to avoid stating. |
Wrong.
Your opinion is that tanking is unethical...
Mines is that tanking has nothing to do with ethics. You fail to understand this at all. |
LoL. Okay. So you believe that purposely losing has nothing to do with ethics.
Ok. |
It really depends on your point of view.
If you look at it from a short term, game by game perspective then tanking is unethical!
If you look at it at a long term, chess like perspective, were losing games is akin to sacrificing a pawn; then there is nothing unethical about tanking as you are trying to win in the bigger picture. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakers#1Team
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 36363
Location: Nomad
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't get all the outrage and wringing of hands at the thought of a Lakers fan rooting for the Lakers to win (especially against the Celtics). As if our rooting interest has an influence on the game. 
Another curiosity: fans thinking that the players should know to tank and have orders to tank (as in: "C'mon, we're ahead, let's blow this game...").
And then there are fans who think that B Scott is acting on his own (without FO directives) to evaluate personnel. They think that Scott (in evaluating the young talent) is actually trying to tank (coaching to lose games). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KLS
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | ggeasy wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
Damn straight bro. Real fans root for the Celtics. Obviously. |
Let me speak for tankers in saying BUCK FOSTON. This wasn't about rooting for the Celtics, it was about willing our terrible scrubs to a loss so as to ensure our future as a franchise. |
But it doesn't ensure anything. It's just the chance at maybe getting a good piece.
I dont think it's worth destroying the character and integrity of a franchise to purposely lose (cheat).
If we end up there legitimately, fine. But not artificially. |
Yeah, lets lose that top 5 pick and depend on our 20th+ pick to rebuild the franchise.... |
The franchise will be rebuilt with whatever resources we end up having.
The Lakers are a franchise of the highest character. That's not something that's easy to build. It takes decades and can be lost instantly. It's more important than any draft pick. |
Yeup! The Celtic fans will be pointing their fingers that we have betrayed our proud tradition and now a cheater to win championship. That is a bigger loss than winning anything with a draftee who is unproven at best. To lose the proud Lakers identity over a college player is not the wise thing to do. One guy can't win a championship. The Mailman Malone, Barkley, Nash, Iverson , Iceman, Dominik Wilkins etc never won a championship for their teams. It takes a combination of good players, great coach and a generous but wise FO to make it happen. Why lose your proud tradition by tanking so obviously especially when playing your hated rival of all bb ages? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KLS wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | ggeasy wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
Damn straight bro. Real fans root for the Celtics. Obviously. |
Let me speak for tankers in saying BUCK FOSTON. This wasn't about rooting for the Celtics, it was about willing our terrible scrubs to a loss so as to ensure our future as a franchise. |
But it doesn't ensure anything. It's just the chance at maybe getting a good piece.
I dont think it's worth destroying the character and integrity of a franchise to purposely lose (cheat).
If we end up there legitimately, fine. But not artificially. |
Yeah, lets lose that top 5 pick and depend on our 20th+ pick to rebuild the franchise.... |
The franchise will be rebuilt with whatever resources we end up having.
The Lakers are a franchise of the highest character. That's not something that's easy to build. It takes decades and can be lost instantly. It's more important than any draft pick. |
Yeup! The Celtic fans will be pointing their fingers that we have betrayed our proud tradition and now a cheater to win championship. That is a bigger loss than winning anything with a draftee who is unproven at best. To lose the proud Lakers identity over a college player is not the wise thing to do. One guy can't win a championship. The Mailman Malone, Barkley, Nash, Iverson , Iceman, Dominik Wilkins etc never won a championship for their teams. It takes a combination of good players, great coach and a generous but wise FO to make it happen. Why lose your proud tradition by tanking so obviously especially when playing your hated rival of all bb ages? |
Mostly agree, however Boston is not in a position to point fingers at anyone. They have been tanking the past couple of years themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KLS
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pio2u wrote: | | KLS wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | ggeasy wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
Damn straight bro. Real fans root for the Celtics. Obviously. |
Let me speak for tankers in saying BUCK FOSTON. This wasn't about rooting for the Celtics, it was about willing our terrible scrubs to a loss so as to ensure our future as a franchise. |
But it doesn't ensure anything. It's just the chance at maybe getting a good piece.
I dont think it's worth destroying the character and integrity of a franchise to purposely lose (cheat).
If we end up there legitimately, fine. But not artificially. |
Yeah, lets lose that top 5 pick and depend on our 20th+ pick to rebuild the franchise.... |
The franchise will be rebuilt with whatever resources we end up having.
The Lakers are a franchise of the highest character. That's not something that's easy to build. It takes decades and can be lost instantly. It's more important than any draft pick. |
Yeup! The Celtic fans will be pointing their fingers that we have betrayed our proud tradition and now a cheater to win championship. That is a bigger loss than winning anything with a draftee who is unproven at best. To lose the proud Lakers identity over a college player is not the wise thing to do. One guy can't win a championship. The Mailman Malone, Barkley, Nash, Iverson , Iceman, Dominik Wilkins etc never won a championship for their teams. It takes a combination of good players, great coach and a generous but wise FO to make it happen. Why lose your proud tradition by tanking so obviously especially when playing your hated rival of all bb ages? |
Mostly agree, however Boston is not in a position to point fingers at anyone. They have been tanking the past couple of years themselves. |
They didn't purposely tank a game by putting rookies and journeymen or no names as starters, not for just 1 game, but for extended period. They released the old guys 2 or 3 years after the championship year, after seeing them not competitive any more as a team. And while they still have trade value, they traded these guys for draft picks for rebuilding. I think there is a difference there. That is a true rebuilding effort many teams will go through. They trade away Rondo but they are still competing for a playoff even with a coach from the college rank. They are losing the games in a natural way, not like us putting guys starting that the Celtic fans show the distain saying that Sacre (of all player LOL) is the only recognizable name. Just a total and embarrassing joke. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KLS wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | KLS wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | ggeasy wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
Damn straight bro. Real fans root for the Celtics. Obviously. |
Let me speak for tankers in saying BUCK FOSTON. This wasn't about rooting for the Celtics, it was about willing our terrible scrubs to a loss so as to ensure our future as a franchise. |
But it doesn't ensure anything. It's just the chance at maybe getting a good piece.
I dont think it's worth destroying the character and integrity of a franchise to purposely lose (cheat).
If we end up there legitimately, fine. But not artificially. |
Yeah, lets lose that top 5 pick and depend on our 20th+ pick to rebuild the franchise.... |
The franchise will be rebuilt with whatever resources we end up having.
The Lakers are a franchise of the highest character. That's not something that's easy to build. It takes decades and can be lost instantly. It's more important than any draft pick. |
Yeup! The Celtic fans will be pointing their fingers that we have betrayed our proud tradition and now a cheater to win championship. That is a bigger loss than winning anything with a draftee who is unproven at best. To lose the proud Lakers identity over a college player is not the wise thing to do. One guy can't win a championship. The Mailman Malone, Barkley, Nash, Iverson , Iceman, Dominik Wilkins etc never won a championship for their teams. It takes a combination of good players, great coach and a generous but wise FO to make it happen. Why lose your proud tradition by tanking so obviously especially when playing your hated rival of all bb ages? |
Mostly agree, however Boston is not in a position to point fingers at anyone. They have been tanking the past couple of years themselves. |
They didn't purposely tank a game by putting rookies and journeymen or no names as starters, not for just 1 game, but for extended period. They released the old guys 2 or 3 years after the championship year, after seeing them not competitive any more as a team. And while they still have trade value, they traded these guys for draft picks for rebuilding. I think there is a difference there. That is a true rebuilding effort many teams will go through. They trade away Rondo but they are still competing for a playoff even with a coach from the college rank. They are losing the games in a natural way, not like us putting guys starting that the Celtic fans show the distain saying that Sacre (of all player LOL) is the only recognizable name. Just a total and embarrassing joke. |
Other than Boozer and Lin we don't have any player that has done enough to gain any notoriety thats why no one has heard of them. Come to think about it no one on Boston's team is a household name either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yong wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
It's not about being real, fake, or whatever fans.
Fact - We lose our pick to the Sixers if it falls out of the top 5.
Fact - We are currently in line to get the 4th pick, but the Magic are not too far behind.
Fact - Winning tonight's game pushed us closer to #5, when losing it could've helped solidify our position.
And my opinion - beating a Celtics' team that is just as scrubby as ours doesn't really hit home for me, personally, in terms of celebrating our age-old rivalry with them. Maybe it's just me, but Evan Turner vs. Nick Young isn't exactly as exciting as Magic vs. Bird.
Anyway, I guess we can just agree to disagree, since you also apparently see nothing wrong with keeping Boozer and Lin for another year... |
Fact- You are rooting to cheat. |
Fact - you fail to see the bigger picture. |
I see the bigger picture. I just don't agree with losing on purpose to get there.
The end doesn't justify the means in my opinion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| foshowtime wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: |
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether its against the rules to tank...
See we can both play the faux moral superiority angle. |
So, you didn't look at the link above where Sterling was fined?
Either you believe it's okay to lose on purpose or you don't.
My position is that it is unethical. Your position is... something that you want to avoid stating. |
Wrong.
Your opinion is that tanking is unethical...
Mines is that tanking has nothing to do with ethics. You fail to understand this at all. |
LoL. Okay. So you believe that purposely losing has nothing to do with ethics.
Ok. |
It really depends on your point of view.
If you look at it from a short term, game by game perspective then tanking is unethical!
If you look at it at a long term, chess like perspective, were losing games is akin to sacrificing a pawn; then there is nothing unethical about tanking as you are trying to win in the bigger picture. |
No difference.
Nobody with any integrity purposely loses in a professional competitive game.
The bigger long term picture doesn't have to involve cheating to appear worse than you really are.
If you assemble a bad roster to save money for good free agents in the future you will lose naturally. If you are trying to get a better feeling of who on your roster is worth keeping you will lose a lot naturally.
But every single lineup on the floor has to compete to win. The coach has to coach each lineup with the intent to get the most out of them to win.
There is no honor or integrity in the race to the bottom, where other teams may be legitimately worse and you dont try to win. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Reflexx wrote: | | foshowtime wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: |
I noticed that you still haven't addressed whether its against the rules to tank...
See we can both play the faux moral superiority angle. |
So, you didn't look at the link above where Sterling was fined?
Either you believe it's okay to lose on purpose or you don't.
My position is that it is unethical. Your position is... something that you want to avoid stating. |
Wrong.
Your opinion is that tanking is unethical...
Mines is that tanking has nothing to do with ethics. You fail to understand this at all. |
LoL. Okay. So you believe that purposely losing has nothing to do with ethics.
Ok. |
It really depends on your point of view.
If you look at it from a short term, game by game perspective then tanking is unethical!
If you look at it at a long term, chess like perspective, were losing games is akin to sacrificing a pawn; then there is nothing unethical about tanking as you are trying to win in the bigger picture. |
No difference.
Nobody with any integrity purposely loses in a professional competitive game.
The bigger long term picture doesn't have to involve cheating to appear worse than you really are.
If you assemble a bad roster to save money for good free agents in the future you will lose naturally. If you are trying to get a better feeling of who on your roster is worth keeping you will lose a lot naturally.
But every single lineup on the floor has to compete to win. The coach has to coach each lineup with the intent to get the most out of them to win.
There is no honor or integrity in the race to the bottom, where other teams may be legitimately worse and you dont try to win. |
I believe this is where we are. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CanadianFan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Dec 2014
Posts: 106
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Just watched the post game interviews. I wanted to throw up on Scott's tie. Then I saw the fun interviews with nick young and his team mates and I forgot all about BS. Then I watched Lin's interview and got the goods on the how the game and the team played. If Scott reads these forums then he'll be upset with nick hill and Lin and they'll be back in the doghouse next game. What a horrible coach to play for! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tyusedney1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 408
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| you guys actually think byron is tanking? nope. he's this awful. get use to it for another 2 years |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WuKong
Rookie
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Reflexx wrote: | | Yong wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
It's not about being real, fake, or whatever fans.
Fact - We lose our pick to the Sixers if it falls out of the top 5.
Fact - We are currently in line to get the 4th pick, but the Magic are not too far behind.
Fact - Winning tonight's game pushed us closer to #5, when losing it could've helped solidify our position.
And my opinion - beating a Celtics' team that is just as scrubby as ours doesn't really hit home for me, personally, in terms of celebrating our age-old rivalry with them. Maybe it's just me, but Evan Turner vs. Nick Young isn't exactly as exciting as Magic vs. Bird.
Anyway, I guess we can just agree to disagree, since you also apparently see nothing wrong with keeping Boozer and Lin for another year... |
Fact- You are rooting to cheat. |
Fact - you fail to see the bigger picture. |
I see the bigger picture. I just don't agree with losing on purpose to get there.
The end doesn't justify the means in my opinion. |
 
I would add that the ends they are hoping for are very unlikely and not supported by data. so it is a total lose lose ... lose your integrity for nothing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WuKong
Rookie
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tyusedney1 wrote: | | you guys actually think byron is tanking? nope. he's this awful. get use to it for another 2 years |
I think the lineups and the way they played against the Celtics prove tanking. He knows the best players and their strengths and he trotted all that out their for his personal rivalry... not saying those players and lineups are championship material but we are better than the record shows and BS is better than the record shows. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tyusedney1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 408
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| WuKong wrote: | | tyusedney1 wrote: | | you guys actually think byron is tanking? nope. he's this awful. get use to it for another 2 years |
I think the lineups and the way they played against the Celtics prove tanking. He knows the best players and their strengths and he trotted all that out their for his personal rivalry... not saying those players and lineups are championship material but we are better than the record shows and BS is better than the record shows. |
oh my. you're giving BS too much credit for the win here. all he did was shuffle the deck like he's always been doing and go with the hot hands in the 4th. any idiot can do that |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakers#1Team
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 36363
Location: Nomad
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tyusedney1 wrote: | | WuKong wrote: | | tyusedney1 wrote: | | you guys actually think byron is tanking? nope. he's this awful. get use to it for another 2 years |
I think the lineups and the way they played against the Celtics prove tanking. He knows the best players and their strengths and he trotted all that out their for his personal rivalry... not saying those players and lineups are championship material but we are better than the record shows and BS is better than the record shows. |
oh my. you're giving BS too much credit for the win here. all he did was shuffle the deck like he's always been doing and go with the hot hands in the 4th. any idiot can do that |
Agreed, I would say that if the Lakers lose it's because Byron was trying to win and failed. Yes, they are shuffling the deck to re-evaluate players for next season. To me that's part of the rebuilding process, not tanking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakers#1Team wrote: | | tyusedney1 wrote: | | WuKong wrote: | | tyusedney1 wrote: | | you guys actually think byron is tanking? nope. he's this awful. get use to it for another 2 years |
I think the lineups and the way they played against the Celtics prove tanking. He knows the best players and their strengths and he trotted all that out their for his personal rivalry... not saying those players and lineups are championship material but we are better than the record shows and BS is better than the record shows. |
oh my. you're giving BS too much credit for the win here. all he did was shuffle the deck like he's always been doing and go with the hot hands in the 4th. any idiot can do that |
Agreed, I would say that if the Lakers lose it's because Byron was trying to win and failed. Yes, they are shuffling the deck to re-evaluate players for next season. To me that's part of the rebuilding process, not tanking. |
TRU DAT  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lostology
Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 285
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
It's not about being real, fake, or whatever fans.
Fact - We lose our pick to the Sixers if it falls out of the top 5.
Fact - We are currently in line to get the 4th pick, but the Magic are not too far behind.
Fact - Winning tonight's game pushed us closer to #5, when losing it could've helped solidify our position.
And my opinion - beating a Celtics' team that is just as scrubby as ours doesn't really hit home for me, personally, in terms of celebrating our age-old rivalry with them. Maybe it's just me, but Evan Turner vs. Nick Young isn't exactly as exciting as Magic vs. Bird.
Anyway, I guess we can just agree to disagree, since you also apparently see nothing wrong with keeping Boozer and Lin for another year... |
There are plenty of game still to be lost. You tankers make it like the last game of the season that made us lose the pick. Think about how badly Lakers wanted to beat the Celtics even with Byron Scott wanting to win.
8th seed in the East belongs to Nets with a record of 23-31. Boston is 21-33. Boston has a better chance of making the playoffs then Lakers do of losing the top pick. So yes, I am happy Lakers beat the Celtics and making it hard for them. With such a crappy season this would be the highlight of the year. Now if Lakers get their top pick and Celtics miss the playoffs by one game then booyah. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WuKong
Rookie
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tyusedney1 wrote: | | WuKong wrote: | | tyusedney1 wrote: | | you guys actually think byron is tanking? nope. he's this awful. get use to it for another 2 years |
I think the lineups and the way they played against the Celtics prove tanking. He knows the best players and their strengths and he trotted all that out their for his personal rivalry... not saying those players and lineups are championship material but we are better than the record shows and BS is better than the record shows. |
oh my. you're giving BS too much credit for the win here. all he did was shuffle the deck like he's always been doing and go with the hot hands in the 4th. any idiot can do that |
Going with the hot hand has NOT been a given. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KLS
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 147
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pio2u wrote: | | KLS wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | KLS wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | ggeasy wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Lostology wrote: | | Haha, for everyone wishing for a tank. Made you guys sad only to think they were gonna lose only to end up winning in OT. Lolololol. |
Hope you're still laughing when we lose our pick to the Suns...
Nvm. Saw your join date. |
What does join date have anything to do with it? I've been a Laker fan since Showtime Lakers. So yes, I always want the Lakers to beat the Celtics. And if the Celtics miss the playoffs because of one game then I will laugh even more. Losing to the Celtics is never okay. |
I guess he's insinuating that REAL Lakers fans would be unhappy about the Lakers beating the Celtics, unlike real fans like him that wanted the Celtics to win. |
Damn straight bro. Real fans root for the Celtics. Obviously. |
Let me speak for tankers in saying BUCK FOSTON. This wasn't about rooting for the Celtics, it was about willing our terrible scrubs to a loss so as to ensure our future as a franchise. |
But it doesn't ensure anything. It's just the chance at maybe getting a good piece.
I dont think it's worth destroying the character and integrity of a franchise to purposely lose (cheat).
If we end up there legitimately, fine. But not artificially. |
Yeah, lets lose that top 5 pick and depend on our 20th+ pick to rebuild the franchise.... |
The franchise will be rebuilt with whatever resources we end up having.
The Lakers are a franchise of the highest character. That's not something that's easy to build. It takes decades and can be lost instantly. It's more important than any draft pick. |
Yeup! The Celtic fans will be pointing their fingers that we have betrayed our proud tradition and now a cheater to win championship. That is a bigger loss than winning anything with a draftee who is unproven at best. To lose the proud Lakers identity over a college player is not the wise thing to do. One guy can't win a championship. The Mailman Malone, Barkley, Nash, Iverson , Iceman, Dominik Wilkins etc never won a championship for their teams. It takes a combination of good players, great coach and a generous but wise FO to make it happen. Why lose your proud tradition by tanking so obviously especially when playing your hated rival of all bb ages? |
Mostly agree, however Boston is not in a position to point fingers at anyone. They have been tanking the past couple of years themselves. |
They didn't purposely tank a game by putting rookies and journeymen or no names as starters, not for just 1 game, but for extended period. They released the old guys 2 or 3 years after the championship year, after seeing them not competitive any more as a team. And while they still have trade value, they traded these guys for draft picks for rebuilding. I think there is a difference there. That is a true rebuilding effort many teams will go through. They trade away Rondo but they are still competing for a playoff even with a coach from the college rank. They are losing the games in a natural way, not like us putting guys starting that the Celtic fans show the distain saying that Sacre (of all player LOL) is the only recognizable name. Just a total and embarrassing joke. |
Other than Boozer and Lin we don't have any player that has done enough to gain any notoriety thats why no one has heard of them. Come to think about it no one on Boston's team is a household name either. |
No body says a team has to have household name players. But at least you put forth your best players to start. We put our best players to the bench. That is a shame for a proud franchise to build a team via cheating of sort. When you are in a pro sport with a court full of cheering fans for a legendary franchise, and you intentionally lose for some unproven college draft, that is quite pathetic. Want to learn some tricks from these girls how to lose a game?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2015/02/24/girls-basketball-teams-try-to-lose-game-to-each-other-both-get-postseason-ban/?tid=HP_more?tid=HP_more |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
