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ringfinger
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 Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | It's not Byron's fault we have crappy players.
But what I do blame him for is overplaying Kobe (I called for 30-32 MPG in the offseason), and not getting more out of Jeremy Lin. And then just odd DNP decisions such as Boozer in the loss against Brooklyn. Scott just seems to do a lot of head scratching type things. |
If the FO wanted to get the most out of these level of players (and lose our pick/get a worse one) they would've kept MDA. |
No way. Laker fans wanted MDA out. |
That was never part of the calculus. They wanted a shot at tanking this year. |
They didn't need to interview him 3 times and hire a former Laker for 4 years to do that.
He was hired for air cover after 2 consecutive poor coaching choices. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | It's not Byron's fault we have crappy players.
But what I do blame him for is overplaying Kobe (I called for 30-32 MPG in the offseason), and not getting more out of Jeremy Lin. And then just odd DNP decisions such as Boozer in the loss against Brooklyn. Scott just seems to do a lot of head scratching type things. |
If the FO wanted to get the most out of these level of players (and lose our pick/get a worse one) they would've kept MDA. |
No way. Laker fans wanted MDA out. |
That was never part of the calculus. They wanted a shot at tanking this year. |
I agree but I think having a coach with the Showtime cache helps alleviate some of the noise from the peanut gallery. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | It's not Byron's fault we have crappy players.
But what I do blame him for is overplaying Kobe (I called for 30-32 MPG in the offseason), and not getting more out of Jeremy Lin. And then just odd DNP decisions such as Boozer in the loss against Brooklyn. Scott just seems to do a lot of head scratching type things. |
If the FO wanted to get the most out of these level of players (and lose our pick/get a worse one) they would've kept MDA. |
No way. Laker fans wanted MDA out. |
That was never part of the calculus. They wanted a shot at tanking this year. |
They didn't need to interview him 3 times and hire a former Laker for 4 years to do that.
He was hired for air cover after 2 consecutive poor coaching choices. |
I think media sniping (namely magic and worthy) was part of the calculus, but they were also likely aware that fans would hate on Scott too, and if the real need to tank was there, that he would be a good soldier and suck it up, knowing he had a place in the Laker family. Much less of a threat to harm the tank than mda, and when top five is the cutoff, every bit of that helps. Mda probably wrings a few more wins out looking for his next job, and he also wanted that extra year.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | It's not Byron's fault we have crappy players.
But what I do blame him for is overplaying Kobe (I called for 30-32 MPG in the offseason), and not getting more out of Jeremy Lin. And then just odd DNP decisions such as Boozer in the loss against Brooklyn. Scott just seems to do a lot of head scratching type things. |
If the FO wanted to get the most out of these level of players (and lose our pick/get a worse one) they would've kept MDA. |
No way. Laker fans wanted MDA out. |
That was never part of the calculus. They wanted a shot at tanking this year. |
They didn't need to interview him 3 times and hire a former Laker for 4 years to do that.
He was hired for air cover after 2 consecutive poor coaching choices. |
I think media sniping (namely magic and worthy) was part of the calculus, but they were also likely aware that fans would hate on Scott too, and if the real need to tank was there, that he would be a good soldier and suck it up, knowing he had a place in the Laker family. Much less of a threat to harm the tank than mda, and when top five is the cutoff, every bit of that helps. Mda probably wrings a few more wins out looking for his next job, and he also wanted that extra year. |
I don't disagree. My point was that there was no way the Lakers were sticking with MDA after that last season. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | It's not Byron's fault we have crappy players.
But what I do blame him for is overplaying Kobe (I called for 30-32 MPG in the offseason), and not getting more out of Jeremy Lin. And then just odd DNP decisions such as Boozer in the loss against Brooklyn. Scott just seems to do a lot of head scratching type things. |
If the FO wanted to get the most out of these level of players (and lose our pick/get a worse one) they would've kept MDA. |
No way. Laker fans wanted MDA out. |
That was never part of the calculus. They wanted a shot at tanking this year. |
They didn't need to interview him 3 times and hire a former Laker for 4 years to do that.
He was hired for air cover after 2 consecutive poor coaching choices. |
I think media sniping (namely magic and worthy) was part of the calculus, but they were also likely aware that fans would hate on Scott too, and if the real need to tank was there, that he would be a good soldier and suck it up, knowing he had a place in the Laker family. Much less of a threat to harm the tank than mda, and when top five is the cutoff, every bit of that helps. Mda probably wrings a few more wins out looking for his next job, and he also wanted that extra year. |
I don't disagree. My point was that there was no way the Lakers were sticking with MDA after that last season. |
I agree. I just don't think the fans were the top reason.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Well maybe that's where we differ. I get and agree with why they chose Byron. But if Byron or any other "Laker family" member weren't available, they'd still have moved off MDA.
Basically, it's my opinion that MDA's shortcomings coupled with his inability to win over Laker fans was a big reason to look in a new direction. With Scott, they're able to rationalize a change for the reasons you provided. |
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Inigo Montoya
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Ceasefire on Byron (for the time being) |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | ...
It's more important to have a coach whose on the same page with the long term franchise goals, even if it means losing in horrible fashion for a season or so. For the Rockets, Adelman wasn't fine with trading away all the players who knew his offense for 1st round draft picks, and that was the major reason they parted ways. In hindsight, it was probably the right move.
...
The difference between us and the Rockets is that we don't have anyone in the front office pushing the coach to modernize his schemes. But I'll reserve judgement until next year, as we'll see whether the offensive and defensive strategy will be turned over to fresh faces on the bench. |
That is kind of a massive difference, though. Plus McHale is very popular with (almost all) his players. Byron is a crappy X's and O's coach with poor people management skills to go along with that.
He is the Peter Principle in action. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Fantastic post, fiend.
One of the best threads, I've read on LG in a long time. |
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lifeless
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| oldschool32 wrote: | | I'm fine with Byron. As long as we keep on this correct path. Young guys develop, and we bring in top prospects. |
problem is you'll have b.scott for years to come, sure you'll develop the rookies, but for what? for them to get traded to a contender team 
I feel like with him around, that's what the future holds, a question mark of what could have been with a different coach. next year It's going to be the same excuses, not playing hard enough!  |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| legend825 wrote: | | Byron Scott is STILL a horrible coach and Karl would've been a much better choice |
I'm a critic of Byron's coaching as much as anyone around, and I love what Karl does, but my point was that Karl probably wouldn't have been the better choice even though he is the much better coach.
He would win too many games for us to get a good draft pick, and he would be fighting tooth and nail to trade for vets who can help him win, leaving us with less flexibility in the offseason. If you're not aligned from the ownership to the front office down to the coach, then you may win some games, but you aren't going anywhere past that.
| Reflexx wrote: | | Byron really needs some good X and O guys on his staff. Give them a general vision and direction and let his staff help him with the details of establishing a clear system. |
I was thinking along the lines of hiring an experienced coach to take over the defense, and then perhaps turning over the offense to Madsen, or another coaching hire.
The way Byron managed Kobe is still a concern regarding his judgement, and he probably will never be good at in game management. But at least there may be a chance to move in a positive direction before his time is up.
| Inigo Montoya wrote: | | That is kind of a massive difference, though. Plus McHale is very popular with (almost all) his players. Byron is a crappy X's and O's coach with poor people management skills to go along with that. |
Lowry actually publicly called out McHale's coaching (also fought with him during timeouts), and was subsequently traded.
I'm not saying that I'm going to stop being critical of the hire for good- just that I'm going to wait and see what happens next preseason. It's not like Mitch doesn't know how the NBA has changed over the past few years- and with no excuse to lose next year, I expect things to change. If they come out with the same offensive and defensive schemes, well then I'll be leading the charge of complainers. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | Byron is merely the FO's puppet. He will perform as well as they direct him to. There are worse things to have in a tank year. |
I don't think Byron has the capacity to flip the switch when needed. He doesn't seem to have much of a grasp on what it takes to win games. He actually thought that riding Kobe like it was 2006 was a successful plan. The first thing they need to do when they get a roster that can compete is negotiate his buyout. |
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Voices
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Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Scott is not a miracle worker, most of the players on this team will not be back for next season, hopefully. Talent wins game not coaching, the Lakers FO is the reason this team does not win. Jim Buss is not a basketball mind, nor has he played the game, he does not have his father feel for the game nor does he have basketball intellect that his Father had. Jim Buss is calling the shots, direct the criticism for this Lakers team where it belongs, the person that is calling the shots, Jim Buss.
I don't care how good a coach is, NBA talent does not need to be taught the fundamentals of the game, players at this level are either fundamentally sound or they are not NBA talent. Sure there are facets of the game where the coach can remind players about some of the fundamentals, however, at NBA level the players that do not play the game fundamentally are generally not worth keeping. The coaching at NBA level is relevant but mostly as a organizer, peace keeper. Coaching this Lakers team that has only been together for this current season, with talent that is marginal, how can anyone expect more from the coach. Until the talent improves and has played together for at least a season no coach will make a difference. And players/FA that are looking for a team to play with, are the Lakers under Jim Buss administration a desirable team? The days of players wanting to play for the Lakers are virtually gone, high taxes especially for players that do not make mega bucks are a factor IMO, so is playing for this management group.
I sincerely hope that I am wrong and the Lakers begin to make the proper moves to get the Lakers back on track to be a contender again.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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Liam_x7
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:15 am Post subject: |
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He's on his 5th straight losing season as a coach
What happened to his toughness and defense first approach? Thats right were dead last in points allowed.
What a complete train wreck this appointment has been. He's a complete shambles of a coach and is not much better than Mike D'Antoni
This franchise sucks so much crap
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Inigo Montoya
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Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Well, the game vs the Celtics gave me some hope with respect to Byron. He clearly wanted to win and put out a lineup that created the spacing that has been missing for basically the entire season. Would have been nice to have Ed Davis out there when we were trying to run down the clock at the end of the 4th, but it actually seemed to have some rhyme and reason behind it. Maybe he'll be merely bad next year. Relatively speaking, I could live with that. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | It's not Byron's fault we have crappy players.
But what I do blame him for is overplaying Kobe (I called for 30-32 MPG in the offseason), and not getting more out of Jeremy Lin. And then just odd DNP decisions such as Boozer in the loss against Brooklyn. Scott just seems to do a lot of head scratching type things. |
If the FO wanted to get the most out of these level of players (and lose our pick/get a worse one) they would've kept MDA. |
No way. Laker fans wanted MDA out. |
Laker fans are, for the most part, emotional and irrational. So in point, who cares what they think? They are still buying tickets.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Inigo Montoya wrote: | | Well, the game vs the Celtics gave me some hope with respect to Byron. He clearly wanted to win and put out a lineup that created the spacing that has been missing for basically the entire season. Would have been nice to have Ed Davis out there when we were trying to run down the clock at the end of the 4th, but it actually seemed to have some rhyme and reason behind it. Maybe he'll be merely bad next year. Relatively speaking, I could live with that. |
I wouldn't say he's turned the corner yet though. It isn't the first time he's gone with Wes at the four down the stretch, as earlier in the season we closed several games the same way. We also had Ryan Kelly as stretch four when Kobe hit his game winner against Indiana.
The Boozer Davis lineup we had in the second quarter also provided good spacing, because Boozer knows how not to get in the way as the weakside big as Davis sets the screen for Lin. These are things that seem to happen based on the way what lineups and matchups are there from game to game. Next year, I'd hope to see us purposely adjust our lineups and play designs towards the more efficient side more consistently. |
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lukewaltonsdad
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting. I still want him gone as soon as we retool this roster back to respectability. I can't stand him. |
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Inigo Montoya
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| OK, what is going on with Byron? He's closing games with lineups that make sense, and making reasonable substitions. Aside from Ryan Kelly, he is even putting players in a position to succeed. It's weird, and it's making my world view all wonky. |
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Voices
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Joined: 07 Jul 2006
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Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Karl and Miller didn't help much when the Kings faced the Clippers. |
You think maybe that the Clippers have more talent than the Kings. I think we are in agreement, talent wins games way more often than coaching.
Karl is a smart guy, he talked the Kings into giving him a job. NBA coaches make huge money, good for George, he campaign for the job and got it, smart guy.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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JLinfanJoe
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Inigo Montoya wrote: | | OK, what is going on with Byron? He's closing games with lineups that make sense, and making reasonable substitions. Aside from Ryan Kelly, he is even putting players in a position to succeed. It's weird, and it's making my world view all wonky. |
I think what Byron Scott has seen in recent winning streak is a team coming together, learning how to truly compete and play hard every single game, and like Lin said recently, trust each other and not worry about individual stats.
Despite the need to tank, I think he is trying to build a culture of winning and competing hard (both on offense and defense) that hopefully carries over into next season for those players who remain on roster.
Lakers said they don't plan on bringing up any players from D-League, so seems like they are trying to build on team chemistry they have now with almost whole roster (10 players per night?) playing, developing, showing what they can contribute, and perhaps also not feeling like organization is holding them back now.
Other teams Lakers are competing with for top 5 spot in draft also look like they are trying to win games to develop their young talent too, while at same time maintain their current positioning in 5 worst records in NBA.
(Plus Byron Scott really, genuinely wanted to win that Celtics game (Lakers Celtics rivalry) and Bucks game (beating Jason Kidd). |
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cyrus_the_virus
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Joined: 14 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| I would trade this theory of the team coming together and setting up for next season for a top five pick. In the long run, the pick will be more valuable than savaging any of these scrubs other than Clarkson moving forward. |
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JLinfanJoe
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Seems like both Suns GM and Sixers GM think it is very highly unlikely the Lakers top 5 protected draft pick conveys this year, unless Lakers go on ridiculous winning streak and some other teams really, really start to tank:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/phoenix-suns-gm-explains-why-193214314.html
Maintaining their current position (fourth worst record in league and 82.8% chance of top 5 pick that goes with it) seems like realistic best case scenario they are shooting for:
http://www.libertyballers.com/the-liberty-beat/2014/10/20/7009899/the-new-nba-lottery-odds-and-you (old odds still in effect, since the draft lottery amendment failed last fall)
(If Lakers blatantly start losing games to move up in standings, then Wolves can start to do same thing. Lakers also have 3 fewer wins locked in already than Magic ( http://www.tankathon.com/ ), so they still have room to lose games as needed closer to end of season to hold off Magic from taking fourth slot). |
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Don Draper
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Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | Byron is merely the FO's puppet. He will perform as well as they direct him to. There are worse things to have in a tank year. |
I don't think Byron has the capacity to flip the switch when needed. He doesn't seem to have much of a grasp on what it takes to win games. He actually thought that riding Kobe like it was 2006 was a successful plan. The first thing they need to do when they get a roster that can compete is negotiate his buyout. |
I was wrong, Byron's just an idiot  |
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:48 am Post subject: |
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If he was doing all the wrong things when we were trying to win, I guess it's too much to expect him to lean in the proper direction when we're trying to lose. Oh well. Really, the only inexcusable thing that he could do at this point in the season is lose the pick.
Hopefully the next meeting with Mitch and Jim concludes with a mandate to give Black minutes over Boozer. |
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mnstrdnk
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Inigo Montoya wrote: | | OK, what is going on with Byron? He's closing games with lineups that make sense, and making reasonable substitions. Aside from Ryan Kelly, he is even putting players in a position to succeed. It's weird, and it's making my world view all wonky. |
Last night was perfect. We were on the doorstep to a W played fairly well but grabbed the L. I still really want that top 5 pick |
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