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cvballa
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 Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:14 pm Post subject: Lakers Lagging Behind on the Analytics Train |
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While I don't think Analytics are the holy grail of building teams, but they surely have a significant place in every front office in the NBA.
BSPN just released their analytics ratings for all major sports (clearly a tough list to compile), and the Lakers land in the bottom 10.
I love Mitch and think he is one of the best GMs in the league, but if he continues to ignore analytics we will remain near the bottom of the league.
I think the right mix is probably 65-60% traditional scouting and 35-40% analytics. While it seems like the front office somewhere closer to 95% traditional scouting and 5% analytics. Our fellow "Non-believers" are the Knicks and Nets (two of the worst run teams in the league), while 3 of the 4 "All-ins" are perennial contenders in SA, Houston and Dallas. They should take a page from their friends across the hall with the Kings who have used analytics to win 2 stanley cups in the past three years. They are consider "believers" who use it, but never makes a decision solely on that alone, which is where Mitch & Jim need to get to.
Hopefully we invest in more analytical staff and technology in order to compete in todays league.
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12331388/the-great-analytics-rankings#nba-lal
Thoughts?
Last edited by cvballa on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Typical ESPN "ranking". Good to see Mitch pull one over on the league and force them to pay for the cameras.
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22
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think ESPN has much of a clue how our FO operates. Larry Coon knows the most, and unless he speaks up on it I'll take this list with a grain of salt |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Although I did find this little nugget VERY encouraging:
| Quote: | Former Lakers head coach Rudy Tomjanovich and his son, Trey, have been providing basic statistical analysis to the front office for years, but it's only recently that the Lakers have invested in an analytics department. GM Mitch Kupchak told ESPN.com that SportVU data has "changed this whole business" and that he has brought aboard a group of four employees to interpret the data.
But the Lakers were slow to embrace SportVU data, not being willing to pay for the cameras before the NBA stepped up and installed them in every arena. And while Kupchak indicated most SportVU analysis is directed toward the coaching staff, with assistant coach Mark Madsen as a conduit, it's hard to find any evidence of Byron Scott putting those insights in play on the court.
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Madsen will be the HC w/in 3 years me thinks. Probably closer to 2 years unless Coach Cal becomes available |
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Don Draper
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | I don't think ESPN has much of a clue how our FO operates. Larry Coon knows the most, and unless he speaks up on it I'll take this list with a grain of salt |
Larry is too busy scolding me about my shot selection in 2K15  . |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | I don't think ESPN has much of a clue how our FO operates. Larry Coon knows the most, and unless he speaks up on it I'll take this list with a grain of salt |
Larry is too busy scolding me about my shot selection in 2K15 . |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | I don't think ESPN has much of a clue how our FO operates. Larry Coon knows the most, and unless he speaks up on it I'll take this list with a grain of salt |
Larry is too busy scolding me about my shot selection in 2K15 . |
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andyliao
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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76ers is the 1st mentioned on the top10 list, obviously it doesn't work.  |
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Troublesome626
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Los Angeles Lakers:Rudy Tomjanovich (Statistical Analyst and Consultant), Trey Tomjanovich (Software Provider) |
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rudytomjanovich
Not sure how behind we are in Analytics? I have see that Lakers have not been present at sloan conference over the past few years while the other 29 teams have had representatives there.
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petergr
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand this blind ESPN bashing....
ESPN's pre-season forecast for current season...30 wins with 12th in West.
Actual ranking: 14th in West...on pace for 23 wins
ESPN's pre-season forecast for last season...36 wins with 12th in West
Actual ranking: 14th in West with 27 wins
Most of LG thought, Lakers will be in play-off race.
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petergr
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| andyliao wrote: | | 76ers is the 1st mentioned on the top10 list, obviously it doesn't work. |
Yeah, we got TWO MORE wins and a ton of future assets. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| petergr wrote: | I don't understand this blind ESPN bashing....
ESPN's pre-season forecast for current season...30 wins with 12th in West.
Actual ranking: 14th in West...on pace for 23 wins
ESPN's pre-season forecast for last season...36 wins with 12th in West
Actual ranking: 14th in West with 27 wins
Most of LG thought, Lakers will be in play-off race.
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ESPN were optimists......in that regard... |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I remember reading before that Madsen was the liaison to the coaching staff for analytics and wondering where the heck they were applying the information- because I sure don't see it on the court. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Yeah, I remember reading before that Madsen was the liaison to the coaching staff for analytics and wondering where the heck they were applying the information- because I sure don't see it on the court. |
They are applying the opposite, for tanking purposes. 
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petergr
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | petergr wrote: | I don't understand this blind ESPN bashing....
ESPN's pre-season forecast for current season...30 wins with 12th in West.
Actual ranking: 14th in West...on pace for 23 wins
ESPN's pre-season forecast for last season...36 wins with 12th in West
Actual ranking: 14th in West with 27 wins
Most of LG thought, Lakers will be in play-off race.
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ESPN were optimists......in that regard... |
To the extent that I have carefully observed (7-8 years)...ESPN tends to consistently over estimate the Lakers. But, many here seem to be denial and bash every source that does not rank Lakers or Kobe as #1. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Yeah, I remember reading before that Madsen was the liaison to the coaching staff for analytics and wondering where the heck they were applying the information- because I sure don't see it on the court. |
They are applying the opposite, for tanking purposes. |
That would mean that the stealth tank started from game 1. Which would have been a brilliant, but too ballsy move for even the Lakers.
I could see them doing it now though, given that this the Madsen who's famous for launching seven threes in a game to get the Wolves a better draft position. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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I also think it's interesting to see Catapult mentioned as being used by several teams. They are the guys who use gps tracking to monitor health, and whose research said that injury risk goes down a lot if you play players for no more than 8 minute stints.
Out of all the new things the Lakers could invest in, this would be pretty far up my list. |
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PhoenixForce
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | I also think it's interesting to see Catapult mentioned as being used by several teams. They are the guys who use gps tracking to monitor health, and whose research said that injury risk goes down a lot if you play players for no more than 8 minute stints.
Out of all the new things the Lakers could invest in, this would be pretty far up my list. |
The Lakers definitely need to invest in the best and most current form of injury prevention and rehabilitation. The last 3 years has been absolutely ridiculous with the amount of injuries our team has gotten. |
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dood23
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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╔══════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong basketball team ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no analytics ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚══════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝ |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| petergr wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | petergr wrote: | I don't understand this blind ESPN bashing....
ESPN's pre-season forecast for current season...30 wins with 12th in West.
Actual ranking: 14th in West...on pace for 23 wins
ESPN's pre-season forecast for last season...36 wins with 12th in West
Actual ranking: 14th in West with 27 wins
Most of LG thought, Lakers will be in play-off race.
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ESPN were optimists......in that regard... |
To the extent that I have carefully observed (7-8 years)...ESPN tends to consistently over estimate the Lakers. But, many here seem to be denial and bash every source that does not rank Lakers or Kobe as #1. |
You're complaining in the wrong thread. This is about the lakers using analytics and not about ESPN projecting their record |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dood23 wrote: | ╔══════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong basketball team ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no analytics ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚══════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝ |
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Arbitrary
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | dood23 wrote: | ╔══════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong basketball team ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no analytics ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚══════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝ |
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RG73
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="22"]Although I did find this little nugget VERY encouraging:
| Quote: | Former Lakers head coach Rudy Tomjanovich and his son, Trey, have been providing basic statistical analysis to the front office for years, but it's only recently that the Lakers have invested in an analytics department. GM Mitch Kupchak told ESPN.com that SportVU data has "changed this whole business" and that he has brought aboard a group of four employees to interpret the data.
But the Lakers were slow to embrace SportVU data, not being willing to pay for the cameras before the NBA stepped up and installed them in every arena. And while Kupchak indicated most SportVU analysis is directed toward the coaching staff, with assistant coach Mark Madsen as a conduit, it's hard to find any evidence of Byron Scott putting those insights in play on the court.
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I find it the opposite of encouraging that they didn't want to spend money on cameras that could help give their coaching staff more information. Yeah, we'll give Kobe $25 million a year, but we won't invest maybe tens of thousands to help give our coaching staff the data to use him more efficiently. Typical trend for this team of late--no qualms about overpaying for talent, but cut corners on training staff and analytics that could keep those players on the court and make them more efficient.
This should never even have been a question. They should be overpaying for the best minds in sports analytics. They should throw money at the best technologies. This sort of being pushed into modernity against their will and then hiring a dinosaur who won't even use the stuff they're now paying for is ridiculous. I mean, sure, it is great for preserving that top 5 pick. But if they don't have the right minds in place when they get that pick, they're going to continue making mistakes. While I have great faith in Mitch, I can't help but to think how much more effective he'd be if the Lakers were working from an analytics advantage rather than disadvantage.
The CBA has stacked the deck against this team's old model, they cannot hope to get back on top without being ahead of the curve and not behind it. |
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iggypop123
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Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 5402
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| petergr wrote: | I don't understand this blind ESPN bashing....
ESPN's pre-season forecast for current season...30 wins with 12th in West.
Actual ranking: 14th in West...on pace for 23 wins
ESPN's pre-season forecast for last season...36 wins with 12th in West
Actual ranking: 14th in West with 27 wins
Most of LG thought, Lakers will be in play-off race.
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if bspn knew we'd have like 5 guys out for the season then i tip my hat
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="RG73"] | 22 wrote: | Although I did find this little nugget VERY encouraging:
| Quote: | Former Lakers head coach Rudy Tomjanovich and his son, Trey, have been providing basic statistical analysis to the front office for years, but it's only recently that the Lakers have invested in an analytics department. GM Mitch Kupchak told ESPN.com that SportVU data has "changed this whole business" and that he has brought aboard a group of four employees to interpret the data.
But the Lakers were slow to embrace SportVU data, not being willing to pay for the cameras before the NBA stepped up and installed them in every arena. And while Kupchak indicated most SportVU analysis is directed toward the coaching staff, with assistant coach Mark Madsen as a conduit, it's hard to find any evidence of Byron Scott putting those insights in play on the court.
|
I find it the opposite of encouraging that they didn't want to spend money on cameras that could help give their coaching staff more information. Yeah, we'll give Kobe $25 million a year, but we won't invest maybe tens of thousands to help give our coaching staff the data to use him more efficiently. Typical trend for this team of late--no qualms about overpaying for talent, but cut corners on training staff and analytics that could keep those players on the court and make them more efficient.
This should never even have been a question. They should be overpaying for the best minds in sports analytics. They should throw money at the best technologies. This sort of being pushed into modernity against their will and then hiring a dinosaur who won't even use the stuff they're now paying for is ridiculous. I mean, sure, it is great for preserving that top 5 pick. But if they don't have the right minds in place when they get that pick, they're going to continue making mistakes. While I have great faith in Mitch, I can't help but to think how much more effective he'd be if the Lakers were working from an analytics advantage rather than disadvantage.
The CBA has stacked the deck against this team's old model, they cannot hope to get back on top without being ahead of the curve and not behind it. |
I agree. If we're going to complain about the CBA being made to limit us, then there is no excuse for not spending to pick up the best non player talent and technology in the league. We should be leading all of the innovations, not following. |
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