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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Unstable wrote: | Why I am against tanking....
1. It's unprofessional. Professionals are so because they take pride in doing their best all the time.
2. It's unethical. To lose on purpose is very bad form.
3. It's disrespectful, to fans, to your opponents, to yourself.
4. It's wrong to build such a mentality. Having such a mentality will hamper player development, the drive to strive for improvement is stifled.
5. It's silly to think that getting a better choice at the draft will necessarily net you players that are ready to help you get the championship, they only represent potential and many things can still get in the way, so this doesn't represent a sure deal, so for those who keeps thinking its better, you can carry on your wishful thinking. |
Write a letter to the NBA. Oh wait, they're beholden to the small market owners who voted the new lottery proposals down. It's unfortunately a part of the game now. I hate it. But look at the marquee teams like the Lakers, Knicks, and Celtics all resorting to it. It's a systemic issue. |
So, before when the Lakers had inherent advantages over other teams in the league, would you have said it was good and ethical for other teams to try to purposely lose?
Hell, shouldn't every other team out there that doesn't have a chance at winning it all just lose on purpose? |
To each their own. Lakers are a large tanker that needs 2-3 miles to turn the ship around.
At 14-41, it makes no sense to keep going the same direction. I for one am glad that they have turned the ship around. |
To each their own...
...so the Lakers should have LESS integrity than other teams have had in the past? Other teams that played to win and just let the chips fall where they may? |
I don't think the team is losing its integrity. You have some moral problem with it, I don't. It's just sports for crying out loud, it's not like people are dying as a result of the decision to tank. |
I don't have a moral problem with it. I have an ethical problem with it.
And without ethics, there really is no point in having professional sports at all. |
If it causes you problems, then perhaps you shouldn't watch it. Were you outraged when CP3 happened? Did you speak in tones of ethics too? But alas you're still here too, so it must not have bothered you THAT much. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: |
Welcome to the new NBA.
Adam Silver is presiding over this. Wonder how long he will let the embarrassment continue re: tankfest. |
Hard to see anything Silver can do often then pushing the owners to reform the rules/CBA to make tanking not worthwhile. But that brings up other issues.
And really I'm not sure tanking matters. No matter what, there will be crappy teams. The NBA's popularity contingents to surge. TV ratings are up. As long as ratings/profits remain high, tanking will only inspire some tsk-tsking, but no action. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Again, I'm not a tanker by nature.
But I'm a realist. And we desperately need that top 5 pick. You do what you have to do. |
I'm not a thief by nature, but I'm not going to get what I want without a wad of cash. Maybe I should steal it? |
Wow, what a terrible analogy.
This is more akin to someone who has never stolen but their family is starving to death. So you steal a loaf of bread. Is it wrong? Perhaps. |
We are not starving to death as a franchise. We're having rebuilding pains... like every other franchise has gone through.
So instead of starving to death, it's more like we feel discomfort because we don't have the yummy dessert we're used to.
Quote: | Again, this is sports. Not sure why you speak in terms of morality, integrity, etc.
The NBA, in its infinte wisdom has let this system in place.
You also assume that the Lakers started this season with a tank mentality; they did not. But they did realize that they had to change course and they did. |
Tanking is against the very nature of competitive sports.
It reeks of desperation and cheating.
Should every team that is not in playoff contention do the same thing? Would that be good for the sport? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so you're anti-tank, I'm team tank this year. I have no problems with it; hopefully you will find a way to forgive the Lakers. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: |
If it causes you problems, then perhaps you shouldn't watch it. Were you outraged when CP3 happened? Did you speak in tones of ethics too? But alas you're still here too, so it must not have bothered you THAT much. |
So is your mentality, "They've wronged me, so I can feel justified in cheating."? |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Ok, so you're anti-tank, I'm team tank this year. I have no problems with it; hopefully you will find a way to forgive the Lakers. |
I don't see rebuilding as tanking. Player development isn't tanking as long as you coach the players on the floor to try to win.
Tanking would be being instructed to lose. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
If it causes you problems, then perhaps you shouldn't watch it. Were you outraged when CP3 happened? Did you speak in tones of ethics too? But alas you're still here too, so it must not have bothered you THAT much. |
So is your mentality, "They've wronged me, so I can feel justified in cheating."? |
Nah, it's called the real world. I don't think tanking is cheating but you do. I have less of a problem in the current situation b/c the Lakers didn't start the season intending to tank, but realized AFTER Kobe went down that it was time to turn the ship around lest it get lost in the sea.
I think our positions are clear. Just wanted to hear other peoples' views on this too. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Ok, so you're anti-tank, I'm team tank this year. I have no problems with it; hopefully you will find a way to forgive the Lakers. |
I don't see rebuilding as tanking. Player development isn't tanking as long as you coach the players on the floor to try to win.
Tanking would be being instructed to lose. |
Honestly you can call it whatever you want. If Ryan Kelly playing SF is "player development," so be it.
But if we get Russell/Okafor/or Towns and they turn out to be studs, will you invalidate their legitimacy as a Laker? Probably not. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Ok, so you're anti-tank, I'm team tank this year. I have no problems with it; hopefully you will find a way to forgive the Lakers. |
I don't see rebuilding as tanking. Player development isn't tanking as long as you coach the players on the floor to try to win.
Tanking would be being instructed to lose. |
Honestly you can call it whatever you want. If Ryan Kelly playing SF is "player development," so be it.
But if we get Russell/Okafor/or Towns and they turn out to be studs, will you invalidate their legitimacy as a Laker? Probably not. |
If I hear that we pretty much threw games to do it I would lose any respect for those in the Lakers organization that gave the order. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Ok, so you're anti-tank, I'm team tank this year. I have no problems with it; hopefully you will find a way to forgive the Lakers. |
I don't see rebuilding as tanking. Player development isn't tanking as long as you coach the players on the floor to try to win.
Tanking would be being instructed to lose. |
Honestly you can call it whatever you want. If Ryan Kelly playing SF is "player development," so be it.
But if we get Russell/Okafor/or Towns and they turn out to be studs, will you invalidate their legitimacy as a Laker? Probably not. |
If I hear that we pretty much threw games to do it I would lose any respect for those in the Lakers organization that gave the order. |
But you'd still root for the top 3 pick and the Lakers? I think we all want the best for the team.
I appreciate your angle and in a vacuum I'm of the same thought. It's that we are in this terrible world that the NBA has created/condoned. Need to navigate through and out of it. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Tony Anapolis Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015 Posts: 3331
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Im not for tanking but lets face it, what else is there to do? Especially when you auction first round picks to pay a ten million dollar bench warmer.
Does anybody take any real heed to the fact that this franchise will do anything to get it's hands on a popular" player. I swear if Rondo is signed because he is the so-called "best" pg available I am going to puke this time.
Come to find out, most people were happy on here about the Nash trade "supposedly? I for one wanted to tell Magic to stop feeding me his BS when he analyzed the trade and how great it was.
I am interested to hear how some of you thought bringing in a 38-39 year old, no defense pg was going to help this team?
Last edited by Tony Anapolis on Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:57 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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SemperMalum Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2010 Posts: 1474
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | City_Dawg wrote: | As usual because I can't make up my mind I'm sort of in the middle. I certainly understand the need to tank (draft pick, cheap talent, etc). But I'll never go down the rabbit hole of actively rooting for losses or getting all butthurt when the team manages to win a game. |
I'm with you CD! My mind knows what's best, but my heart just can't admit it. I'm stuck |
You might say...
Your mind's telling you no
But your body, my your body's telling me yes.
R.Kelly |
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Boldarblood Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 296
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I am stuck in middle.
Losing breeds losing. Just as much as a winning attitude affects games, I think losing does to. It becomes easier. It becomes ok.
But we need the pick. |
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CHAMP24 Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Posts: 329
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Boldarblood wrote: | I am stuck in middle.
Losing breeds losing. Just as much as a winning attitude affects games, I think losing does to. It becomes easier. It becomes ok.
But we need the pick. |
That's OK, how many of these scrubs will be on the team when we win another chip? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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To folks adverse to tanking, whomever we draft will be like a love child out of wedlock.
But damnit, we will all love and raise said love child as a Lakers family! _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Wino Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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cuz I think we are capable of JUST missing the playoffs and settling for a lousy draft pick like the rest of the dumb arses out there who end out middle of the pack for 30 years!!! _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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hopandskip Sixth Man
Joined: 12 Oct 2014 Posts: 85
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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At this point, there is absolutely no reason NOT to tank. It's not like the league can fine you for having a beatable roster. |
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Laker_Town Retired Number
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 25604
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
If it causes you problems, then perhaps you shouldn't watch it. Were you outraged when CP3 happened? Did you speak in tones of ethics too? But alas you're still here too, so it must not have bothered you THAT much. |
So is your mentality, "They've wronged me, so I can feel justified in cheating."? |
Tanking is cheating?
I think pretty much everyone would agree that the players aren't throwing games. So how is this cheating? Scott deflating balls?
Maybe lin's...
Silver won't punish any team because it isn't breaking any rules. Does pop cheat when he sits Duncan for certain games? |
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Laker_Town Retired Number
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 25604
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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CHAMP24 wrote: | Boldarblood wrote: | I am stuck in middle.
Losing breeds losing. Just as much as a winning attitude affects games, I think losing does to. It becomes easier. It becomes ok.
But we need the pick. |
That's OK, how many of these scrubs will be on the team when we win another chip? |
Lol
Good point |
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KingKobe20 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 18577 Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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In Last years draft, players besides Parker, Wiggins, and Embiid weren't too impressive.
Sure like many others I also have high hopes for Julius Randle. An we really haven't seen anything from Jabari Parker and Embiid yet as they both aren't playing this season with injuries.
I think Okafor, Cauley-Stein, Towns, and Stanley Johnson are certified game changers.
We really need to get a top 4 pick this season. _________________ "Tryin' to get that Kobe number, One Over Jordan"
-Kanye
aka ILLWiLL20
R.I.P PHIL |
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Tony Anapolis Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015 Posts: 3331
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Boldarblood wrote: | I am stuck in middle.
Losing breeds losing. Just as much as a winning attitude affects games, I think losing does to. It becomes easier. It becomes ok.
But we need the pick. |
Evident in Young, Hill, and Lin. |
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JIFISH Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 9315 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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I oppose tanking because it is fool's gold.
Tanking as a "plan to improve a team" is like playing the lottery as a form of gainful employment.
All it does is give a false sense of hope to fans of crappy teams.
Having the worst record doesn't guarantee you the number one pick, and even if it did, having the number one pick doesn't guarantee you a franchise player.
The problem is that there are too many teams, and even if there are enough really good players to play on those teams, there are still not enough good coaches and even fewer good GMs and owners.
When teams improve, it's almost always as a result of smart trades and acquisitions, along with a healthy dose of luck.
The NBA needs to stop pretending that it can some how tweak the rules to even the playing field. Because instead of getting a league where every team is as good as the Lakers were prior to the ill-fated CP3 fiasco, it is bringing us a league where every team is as bad as mediocre as the Sacramento Kings.
If Mitch and Jim are somehow able to return the Lakers to the top of the heap, it won't be because of playing so bad that we get a top four draft pick.
Winning is a habit. And so is losing. _________________ I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question - Richard Feynman |
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LAL4K3RS Star Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 2750
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't want the Tankers to win. This is Freedom we are talking about, and last I checked in 'Merica we don't lose.
Stop looking at this as pro or anti Tank.
I personally don't care cause we will have a ton of money for signing players. _________________ This Laker Organization has not yet hit bottom. It is moving there quickly, and I suspect this year we will see zero talent coming to the Lakers and we will trade away Kuz and BI for old vets in the hopes of giving LeBronze some scapegoats. |
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shortodom Star Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 5332
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:00 am Post subject: |
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I forget who gets the pick if we make the playoffs but I hope we made a deal with them and that's why we're winning now. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Ok, so you're anti-tank, I'm team tank this year. I have no problems with it; hopefully you will find a way to forgive the Lakers. |
I don't see rebuilding as tanking. Player development isn't tanking as long as you coach the players on the floor to try to win.
Tanking would be being instructed to lose. |
Honestly you can call it whatever you want. If Ryan Kelly playing SF is "player development," so be it.
But if we get Russell/Okafor/or Towns and they turn out to be studs, will you invalidate their legitimacy as a Laker? Probably not. |
If I hear that we pretty much threw games to do it I would lose any respect for those in the Lakers organization that gave the order. |
Is sacre still starting? Sacredevelopment ? |
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