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Yumyumcha Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 751
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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My issue with Rondo, regardless of how small a contract he receives, aside from his current skill set, I think he'll be a detriment to the culture the Lakers are trying to instill. Even at his best, he seem to always be at odds with his past coaches, ie: Tubby Smith, Doc. Of course you have to A. Believe that culture is important to a team B. The organization is lending itself to building that culture C. Its a culture that leads to winning. Phil Jackson has been quoted about doing that to the Knicks and to a lesser degree, BS has alluded to that when he was hired (toughness, Laker tradition). I think the last thing a young team like the Lakers need, and seemingly getting younger after this draft, is to see is a veteran presence arguing and fighting with the coach. People might point out Metta World Peace but he was coming to an already established team where Phil, Kobe and Fisher already tied the team together. Right now, I don't even know who is qualified to lead this team, Kobe who hasn't been around for the last 2 years due to injury, Scott who has no rings as a player, odd rotations nor a keen offensive mind or Price, the head of the snake. |
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ahaider Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2012 Posts: 3501
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:16 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | ahaider wrote: | If financial are the issue - I'm curious who are we competing with for Rondo's services?
The Knicks? Kings? Who else? Nets?
I don't think Rondo gets a 4 year deal @ 8 million per from anyone. Unless someone panics - which is always possible.
You can sign Rondo at a 2 year deal with a team option. Byron + Kobe are going to be tangled together. If you're going to add Rondo add him underneath the parameters that work for us.
In regards to his FT shooting being abysmal this year, He only shot a total of 42 FT's. That's going to lead to you guys saying well look he's getting to the line less. A totally valid point.
He posted career high's in (35%) 3P% and his 43.6 FG% isn't bad. I'm only proposing Rondo underneath our terms both financially and length of the contract.
If he's willing to meet those demands, he's a clear upgrade over Ronnie Price, Jeremy Lin, or Ellington. On top of that, no need to over pay for Lawson, Dragic, or Reggie Evans. |
But why not use the 8-10m for Rondo on something else? It's an opportunity cost issue for me. No guarantee either that Kobe will hate Rondo once they actually play games, and vice versa. |
My idea is that you could sign Rondo on a prove it year type deal somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-5 Million. (A la Ed Davis - although he took less)
I'm viewing Rondo as a legitimate backup. I don't disagree with anything Zach Lowe said. My point is that he can add to our bench if he's willing to accept the role. We lack competition for him - I'm hoping we can dictate the terms of his deal and length in our favor.
At worse, he's still a better backup PG than Jeremy Lin or Price _________________ Author of James Harden and the Strip Club
"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding. We are swimming in the former. We are desperately lacking in the latter." - Malcom Gladwell |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:18 am Post subject: |
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^ Yeah, I don't see Rondo gracefully embracing a backup PG role at all. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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HumanVictoryCigar Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 7601
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Rondo is going to be starting somewhere next year, maybe with us, he's not going to be coming off the bench. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: |
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I think Pop might be the only coach in the league right now with enough gravitas to make Rondo listen. I doubt he'd want such a head case though.
Maybe he could go to Miami and Riles could make his way down every time Rondo gets out of control. |
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lakersfan32 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 3601
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Stay away from Rondo at all costs Mitch. Even at the min |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW, that article uses a whole bunch of already known stuff and speculation (some of it really bad) to make Ding seem like he's in the know while he doesn't actually say anything of particular note. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | FWIW, that article uses a whole bunch of already known stuff and speculation (some of it really bad) to make Ding seem like he's in the know while he doesn't actually say anything of particular note. |
The lesson being, as always, that Kevin Ding is the worst. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | 24 wrote: | FWIW, that article uses a whole bunch of already known stuff and speculation (some of it really bad) to make Ding seem like he's in the know while he doesn't actually say anything of particular note. |
The lesson being, as always, that Kevin Ding is the worst. |
Yeah, very much like his last big column where he talks about consulting with Mitch like it was some private, exclusive interview, then just regurgitating what Mitch said at a press conference.
And he's all over the board. The Rondo interest stuff is coming mostly from Rondo's side (duh), but Jim had a lot of interest but less now. Jim uses an analytic supported model, but Rondo doesn't fit an analytic model so it must be that Jim overvalues assists, because he had Nash as a top ten (or "maybe" top 5) guard (looking to project specificity to project authority, but if Jim is tipping him where he has Nash, why maybe top 5. Why not a definitive?), and of course assists would be the most obvious ham handed correlation.
He doesn't have any good sources, so he's trying smoke and mirrors to pretend he does, and then ending up with an ambiguous result. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | ocho wrote: | 24 wrote: | FWIW, that article uses a whole bunch of already known stuff and speculation (some of it really bad) to make Ding seem like he's in the know while he doesn't actually say anything of particular note. |
The lesson being, as always, that Kevin Ding is the worst. |
Yeah, very much like his last big column where he talks about consulting with Mitch like it was some private, exclusive interview, then just regurgitating what Mitch said at a press conference.
And he's all over the board. The Rondo interest stuff is coming mostly from Rondo's side (duh), but Jim had a lot of interest but less now. Jim uses an analytic supported model, but Rondo doesn't fit an analytic model so it must be that Jim overvalues assists, because he had Nash as a top ten (or "maybe" top 5) guard (looking to project specificity to project authority, but if Jim is tipping him where he has Nash, why maybe top 5. Why not a definitive?), and of course assists would be the most obvious ham handed correlation.
He doesn't have any good sources, so he's trying smoke and mirrors to pretend he does, and then ending up with an ambiguous result. |
The Nash thing makes more sense. He was arguably the best shooter in the league and had high PnR numbers. Tough to imagine the same model that valued Nash so high would similarly value Rondo.
I get the impression Ding tries to do a baby Woj impression. He doesn't have the chops or the sources though. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | 24 wrote: | ocho wrote: | 24 wrote: | FWIW, that article uses a whole bunch of already known stuff and speculation (some of it really bad) to make Ding seem like he's in the know while he doesn't actually say anything of particular note. |
The lesson being, as always, that Kevin Ding is the worst. |
Yeah, very much like his last big column where he talks about consulting with Mitch like it was some private, exclusive interview, then just regurgitating what Mitch said at a press conference.
And he's all over the board. The Rondo interest stuff is coming mostly from Rondo's side (duh), but Jim had a lot of interest but less now. Jim uses an analytic supported model, but Rondo doesn't fit an analytic model so it must be that Jim overvalues assists, because he had Nash as a top ten (or "maybe" top 5) guard (looking to project specificity to project authority, but if Jim is tipping him where he has Nash, why maybe top 5. Why not a definitive?), and of course assists would be the most obvious ham handed correlation.
He doesn't have any good sources, so he's trying smoke and mirrors to pretend he does, and then ending up with an ambiguous result. |
The Nash thing makes more sense. He was arguably the best shooter in the league and had high PnR numbers. Tough to imagine the same model that valued Nash so high would similarly value Rondo.
I get the impression Ding tries to do a baby Woj impression. He doesn't have the chops or the sources though. |
That was my point. Putting aside that there's no way anyone in the inner circle is giving him their rankings, he can just assume Nash is high, and pick a number for effect, but then he's hamstrung with Rondo, so he throws out the lame assists explanation. Now that he has a national profile, puff and hit pieces won't suffice, so he's trying to look connected while demonstrating to even a mildly trained eye that he isn't. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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ch3cky0selff00 wrote: |
That article pretty much summed up why Kobe Bryant loves him. Kobe's an a-hole know-it-all too. The difference is Kobe has the success and rings to back it up. Rondo has a ring so it doesn't carry as much weight.
I've said this before.. but Rajon Rondo is probably the ONLY point guard other than Derek Fisher who Kobe Bryant would absolutely trust with the ball. I could see him playing with Jordan Clarkson.. but I think it'd take a while for him to fully trust Clarkson with it. Heck, I'm not positive he fully trusted Steve Nash for the few games they played together.
I would say Rajon Rondo is probably an amplified version of Kobe Bryant in terms of personality. They're both very intelligent, both demand a ton from their teammates and can be somewhat difficult to coach at times. Though, it seems Kobe has toned that down a bit. |
Rondo's talent doesn't make up for that attitude like Kobe's did. Heck, even at Rondo's best, it BARELY made up for it. Now, it ain't even close. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Troublesome626 Star Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2012 Posts: 2469
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | Stay away from Rondo at all costs Mitch. Even at the min |
I agree with this very much and i have been saying this since i began to hear the rumors of Rondo coming to the Lakers.
But I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a big Laker fan too and he asked me a hypothetical question, what if we strikeout again on every single free agent we want? Do you consider taking Rondo then at maybe a one year max money deal in hopes that we can give Philly the worst pick possible for next season hoping that 35-40 games might be possible with Kobe,Rondo,Randle,Clarkson,top5pick & scraps? That actually had me thinking about it just bit. I still really hate the idea of Rondo being a Laker but in that scenario i might consider it. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Troublesome626 wrote: | 22 wrote: | Stay away from Rondo at all costs Mitch. Even at the min |
I agree with this very much and i have been saying this since i began to hear the rumors of Rondo coming to the Lakers.
But I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a big Laker fan too and he asked me a hypothetical question, what if we strikeout again on every single free agent we want? Do you consider taking Rondo then at maybe a one year max money deal in hopes that we can give Philly the worst pick possible for next season hoping that 35-40 games might be possible with Kobe,Rondo,Randle,Clarkson,top5pick & scraps? That actually had me thinking about it just bit. I still really hate the idea of Rondo being a Laker but in that scenario i might consider it. |
I can definitely understand the sentiment, but I'd still rather not because he could stunt our young players with his attitude.
Plus if we strike out on everyone I'd look to absorb a bad contract from someone for another asset. Like David Lee from GS |
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Lakerpark Star Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2002 Posts: 2117
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I know most of us are hardcore Laker fans, but none of us are Professional NBA GMs.
Speaking as fans we all pretty much agree that no way would we want Rondo on our Lakers.
If we were to step inside the brains of Mitch and Jim Buss, what possible reason could they want to even consider signing Rondo to the Lakers...even for a minimal contract.
Unless the Lakers really are not considering Rondo at all, then this is just a concoction by the sports writers.
And who cares if Rondo is friends of Kobe? Even Kobe would stand back away from Rondo, knowing he is a liability on offense, daring him to shoot. Kobe couldn't possible be so stupid as to want to ruin his team just so he could play with his friend?
If you were playing pick up ball would you choose your crummy, no talent best friend to play with you just so you could lose and sit out for the next hour waiting for your ups? |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Troublesome626 wrote: | But I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a big Laker fan too and he asked me a hypothetical question, what if we strikeout again on every single free agent we want? |
Than we move on and try for 2016 free agency. Lakers don't settle for lesser players on big contracts. Otherwise Lance Stephenson and Isiah Thomas would be in Lakers uniforms right now. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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Lakers2015 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2015 Posts: 2315
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | Troublesome626 wrote: | But I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a big Laker fan too and he asked me a hypothetical question, what if we strikeout again on every single free agent we want? |
Than we move on and try for 2016 free agency. Lakers don't settle for lesser players on big contracts. Otherwise Lance Stephenson and Isiah Thomas would be in Lakers uniforms right now. |
I agree with that except Isiah Thomas isn't a lesser player by any means. He clearly proved that in Boston. He was argurably the best sixth man in the league this season. Having him behind Clarkson would leave us set at PG for the near future. |
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K0BEE 2.0 Franchise Player
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 10949 Location: I wish I knew
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | The lesson being, as always, that Kevin Ding is the worst. |
I'm not sure about that, a lot of writers in today's modern media main stream have a tendency of "being in the know" with the exact opposite of what there actually trying to write.
I can give you a example on how WOJ tried to twist his article and sources by saying that Love's injury against Boston might have cost the Celtics a chance to get him when in fact the Celtics can easily trade away tweener scrub Kelly Olynk for scraps and make room for Love... the reality is that some media writers have a big ego and even the most credible ones try to do damage control when it comes to writing opinions and "sources".... a lot of them just write hear say for finance and hits. |
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Troublesome626 Star Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2012 Posts: 2469
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | Troublesome626 wrote: | But I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a big Laker fan too and he asked me a hypothetical question, what if we strikeout again on every single free agent we want? |
Than we move on and try for 2016 free agency. Lakers don't settle for lesser players on big contracts. Otherwise Lance Stephenson and Isiah Thomas would be in Lakers uniforms right now. |
The question was based on having Rondo for one year in order not to surrender a very high pick to Philly next season. Not a Lance contract where he would be here multiple years
Anyways i am not going to argue for Rondo because personally i hate the idea of Rondo being a Laker but i can begin to see why a short one year deal would be considered. |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers2015 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | Troublesome626 wrote: | But I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a big Laker fan too and he asked me a hypothetical question, what if we strikeout again on every single free agent we want? |
Than we move on and try for 2016 free agency. Lakers don't settle for lesser players on big contracts. Otherwise Lance Stephenson and Isiah Thomas would be in Lakers uniforms right now. |
I agree with that except Isiah Thomas isn't a lesser player by any means. He clearly proved that in Boston. He was argurably the best sixth man in the league this season. Having him behind Clarkson would leave us set at PG for the near future. |
He wouldn't play behind Clarkson though. In fact, with Thomas here, Clarkson's emergence would have never happened. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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K0BEE 2.0 Franchise Player
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 10949 Location: I wish I knew
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Getting Rondo is a high risk.... but a "HUGE REWARD" if he comes in focus and plays at a high level.... only because if the Lakers get Rondo we will have enough flexibility to add a true star on the team and if everything clicks next year we can be a force..... |
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Captain America Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Oct 2014 Posts: 720
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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ahaider wrote: | If financial are the issue - I'm curious who are we competing with for Rondo's services?
The Knicks? Kings? Who else? Nets?
I don't think Rondo gets a 4 year deal @ 8 million per from anyone. Unless someone panics - which is always possible.
You can sign Rondo at a 2 year deal with a team option. Byron + Kobe are going to be tangled together. If you're going to add Rondo add him underneath the parameters that work for us.
In regards to his FT shooting being abysmal this year, He only shot a total of 42 FT's. That's going to lead to you guys saying well look he's getting to the line less. A totally valid point.
He posted career high's in (35%) 3P% and his 43.6 FG% isn't bad. I'm only proposing Rondo underneath our terms both financially and length of the contract.
If he's willing to meet those demands, he's a clear upgrade over Ronnie Price, Jeremy Lin, or Ellington. On top of that, no need to over pay for Lawson, Dragic, or Reggie Evans. |
Uhhhhm better than Price Lin or Ellington? He's not even better than JJ Barea... Lol |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | Getting Rondo is a high risk.... but a "HUGE REWARD" |
No 2.0. There is no reward let alone a huge one. He's 30 years old, crap shooter, even more crap free throw shooter than almost any player in the league, lazy defender, bad attitude, locker room cancer, wants big money, and not even as athletic as he once was.
What exactly is the huge reward here other than the halting development of a real player like Clarkson? Answer: there is none. It doesn't exist. Even at his best he can't make a positive impact for the team. Even with his stat padded assists, he made the Celtics since the big 3 left a tank team, than he made the Mavs regress and held them back both in the regular season and playoffs.
And now you want that kind of player on the team...because why? Even if this team was contending he would be a bad idea let alone a rebuilding team. He's a downgrade to Clarkson and becomes a distraction for the whole team. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Signing Rondo or any other older PG would stunt the development of Clarkson. He needs all the minutes he can. The Mavs and Celtics played better without him. It's a high risk low reward signing. |
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