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55 Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 12092
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
Quote: | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Dwight Who |
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anpherknee Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Mar 2014 Posts: 16933
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: |
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pio2u wrote: | Dwight Who |
I think he was a president in the 50s or something |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28422 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Will be fun watching him get eliminated in the first round again. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: |
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anpherknee wrote: | pio2u wrote: | Dwight Who |
I think he was a president in the 50s or something |
Oh yea, that guy |
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the association Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015 Posts: 1982
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:07 am Post subject: |
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I guess in hindsight it was worth the attempt given Bynum's disappearing act, but I don't think the blame on this issue (the acquisition of DH being an unmitigated failure) falls with Kobe or Dwight, as much as it lands squarely in the lap of those in the FO ...
Whatever happened to the concept of knowing thyself (or at least knowing one's assets)? Mitch and the Buss family know Kobe. They also know Dwight as he's presented himself to the world from day 1 of his career. Was it that difficult to see that those two wouldn't be able to co-exist? |
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Travers Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Nov 2014 Posts: 181
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
Quote: | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
I'd say there's not only one way of leading, Kobe's bread and butter not necessarily Dwight's. Dwight had lead his Magic to conference finals, finals...... without all star teammates' help and brilliant coach like Phi. Put into same situation, I wonder if Kobe can lead Magic that far. Kobe's record without Shaq and Gasol is far from convincing, either missing playoff or fighting for last spot. |
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LakerDYnasty72 Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 4562
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
Quote: | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
Do you not understand that the absolute majority of us do not want to even see this guy's name in a thread? It's such a waste, and I'm trying to be respectful. |
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Travers Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Nov 2014 Posts: 181
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: |
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If Kobe ever shared the stage with Dwight as co leader, there's every chance for him to earn more titles. Dwight+Gasol+Kobe, you've got two dominant offensive and defensive weapons, with an excellent distributor and facilitator like Kobe(proved to be more than capable), Lakers will be a real contender.
Mitch really has done his work for Kobe. But, similar to 2003, Kobe ruined his titles chance again. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Gasol and Dwight did not work together. And too bad about Kobe's title chances ending in 2003. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Last edited by venturalakersfan on Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Kobe's nature is combative and argumentative and being ill at ease with others. That's what he expects others to accept from him. It's not how championship rosters are comprised by necessity, but it's the only thing he knows. |
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70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Gasol and Dwight did not work together |
I suspect they worked at it as hard as thy could, but were not an ideal fit. Pau's a scoring center in every successful team he's been a member. He needs room in there to work. Dwight's both more limited as a scorer in general and they got in each other's way. Pau is not a stretch four but I think he tried to do it. |
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CHAMP24 Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Posts: 329
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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Travers wrote: | 55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
Quote: | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
I'd say there's not only one way of leading, Kobe's bread and butter not necessarily Dwight's. Dwight had lead his Magic to conference finals, finals...... without all star teammates' help and brilliant coach like Phi. Put into same situation, I wonder if Kobe can lead Magic that far. Kobe's record without Shaq and Gasol is far from convincing, either missing playoff or fighting for last spot. |
Kobe hater alert.... |
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CHAMP24 Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Posts: 329
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Travers wrote: | If Kobe ever shared the stage with Dwight as co leader, there's every chance for him to earn more titles. Dwight+Gasol+Kobe, you've got two dominant offensive and defensive weapons, with an excellent distributor and facilitator like Kobe(proved to be more than capable), Lakers will be a real contender.
Mitch really has done his work for Kobe. But, similar to 2003, Kobe ruined his titles chance again. |
yeah, just like in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010.......oh wait.... |
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GRE4T ONE Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 728
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: |
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70sdude wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Gasol and Dwight did not work together |
I suspect they worked at it as hard as thy could, but were not an ideal fit. Pau's a scoring center in every successful team he's been a member. He needs room in there to work. Dwight's both more limited as a scorer in general and they got in each other's way. Pau is not a stretch four but I think he tried to do it. |
I think every one was sacrificing there game to accommodate Dwight and he wasn't willing to sacrifice his. |
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CHAMP24 Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Posts: 329
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Gasol and Dwight did not work together. And too bad about Kobe's title chances ending in 2003. |
Dwight and Pau got swept in the first round with NO KOBE in sight |
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Legacy Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 7054 Location: So. Californ-I-A
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:44 am Post subject: |
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the association wrote: | I guess in hindsight it was worth the attempt given Bynum's disappearing act, but I don't think the blame on this issue (the acquisition of DH being an unmitigated failure) falls with Kobe or Dwight, as much as it lands squarely in the lap of those in the FO ...
Whatever happened to the concept of knowing thyself (or at least knowing one's assets)? Mitch and the Buss family know Kobe. They also know Dwight as he's presented himself to the world from day 1 of his career. Was it that difficult to see that those two wouldn't be able to co-exist? |
Dwight said in the past (before he came here) that the one player he wanted to play with was Kobe. This was after their contributions to the Olympic Team. So they did have some playing time together. I commend the FO for getting Dwight. He was widely considered the best center in the game. And like you pointed out, the FO did know their personalities. Mostly Kobe. They attempted an idea of bringing Dwight in to get him over his mental boundaries that were seemingly keeping him from winning a championship. With Kobe's leadership and "fight to the death" ethos, it seemed like a good pairing. Only nobody realized just how soft and gooey Dwight really was/is at his core.
*edit*
That same idea worked with Pau and Kobe. Pau was considered to be a soft guy himself. Maybe he still kind of was by nature, but Kobe helped toughen him up. Look at our '10 championship run. Gasol was frikn perfect for that team. He may have been soft, but he always had a fierceness to him. Kobe saw that and helped bring that out in Pau.
Again, Dwight just isn't that tough mentally. Still, it was a good experiment worth the effort I think.
Last edited by Legacy on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CHAMP24 Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Posts: 329
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Howard is a clown |
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Lakers#1Team Retired Number
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 36360 Location: Nomad
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: |
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For both Dwight and the Lakers it was a case of "live and learn." |
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55 Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 12092
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | 55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
Quote: | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
Do you not understand that the absolute majority of us do not want to even see this guy's name in a thread? It's such a waste, and I'm trying to be respectful. |
I apologize for making you do something that your eyes prefer not to.
From this moment forward, his name (who we shall not see in a thread) shall be removed for eternity. |
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Boybees Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2001 Posts: 1161
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Don Draper wrote: | Will be fun watching him get eliminated in the first round again. |
If he even plays, I think he's got an infected hangnail. _________________ Jerry Buss made the Lakers into the crown jewel of the NBA. |
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Nick the Quick Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Aug 2014 Posts: 275
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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to me it's crazy that someone wouldn't be open to lessons from a great. even if you don't agree with every little piece, you can take plenty of things away and put them into your own philosophy. but to not even give it a legitimate shot is insane. |
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tirebiter Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Jul 2014 Posts: 401
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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70sdude wrote: | Kobe's nature is combative and argumentative and being ill at ease with others. That's what he expects others to accept from him. It's not how championship rosters are comprised by necessity, but it's the only thing he knows. |
yup, spot on. There's more than one way to form a championship team. this is kobe's way. he's earned the right. but it's not the only way.
take pete carroll's teams for example, at sc and seattle. as competitive as they were, they also hammed it up and had a good time winning 38 games in a row. pete's pranks were legendary at SC. they were extremely competitive but not combative. |
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44TheLogo Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 6364
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:02 am Post subject: |
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tirebiter wrote: | 70sdude wrote: | Kobe's nature is combative and argumentative and being ill at ease with others. That's what he expects others to accept from him. It's not how championship rosters are comprised by necessity, but it's the only thing he knows. |
yup, spot on. There's more than one way to form a championship team. this is kobe's way. he's earned the right. but it's not the only way.
take pete carroll's teams for example, at sc and seattle. as competitive as they were, they also hammed it up and had a good time winning 38 games in a row. pete's pranks were legendary at SC. they were extremely competitive but not combative. |
I'm not sure the word combative is correct for what Kobe was trying to express, though this is just my speculation. My intuition is that he meant confrontational, which is absolutely necessary for a championship team to succeed, as every player must be held accountable to each other. Howard may have brought the Magic to the finals but they were never even close to winning, then they disappeared after that. The Eastern Conference is really just a joke.
So that said, you can be confrontational and not combative, but it takes a certain personality to be able to do that and not take things personally. I strongly doubt that a locker room that isn't accountable to each other can win a championship. |
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70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
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44TheLogo wrote: | tirebiter wrote: | 70sdude wrote: | Kobe's nature is combative and argumentative and being ill at ease with others. That's what he expects others to accept from him. It's not how championship rosters are comprised by necessity, but it's the only thing he knows. |
yup, spot on. There's more than one way to form a championship team. this is kobe's way. he's earned the right. but it's not the only way.
take pete carroll's teams for example, at sc and seattle. as competitive as they were, they also hammed it up and had a good time winning 38 games in a row. pete's pranks were legendary at SC. they were extremely competitive but not combative. |
I'm not sure the word combative is correct for what Kobe was trying to express, though this is just my speculation. My intuition is that he meant confrontational, which is absolutely necessary for a championship team to succeed, as every player must be held accountable to each other. Howard may have brought the Magic to the finals but they were never even close to winning, then they disappeared after that. The Eastern Conference is really just a joke.
So that said, you can be confrontational and not combative, but it takes a certain personality to be able to do that and not take things personally. I strongly doubt that a locker room that isn't accountable to each other can win a championship. |
Even when we accept confrontational as his intended meaning, there is a huge spectrum of behavior that could be labeled confrontational stylistically. I think it's important to discuss how it's woven into the fabric of rosters, among player-player and coach-player relationships. I think the roster context is important.
Phil is known for having operated most of the time using oblique, calm, indirect communications with his players, which worked for him on championship squads. I think it worked because he had MJ, Kobe or Shaq on hand to do the hard-ass junkyard dog barking with the supporting players. It doesn't mean anyone has to be the junkyard dog to be a winner. John Wooden wasn't and he never permitted it either. |
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