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greenfrog
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 Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Nick the Quick wrote: | | to me it's crazy that someone wouldn't be open to lessons from a great. even if you don't agree with every little piece, you can take plenty of things away and put them into your own philosophy. but to not even give it a legitimate shot is insane. |
Showing and teaching him what exactly? If it was something tangible like footwork then fine. Kobe never says.
Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lakers#1Team
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| It's ideal to be "invitational" (inviting someone to do it your way) whenever possible. But there are times when being "confrontational" (it's imperative that you change and this is why) is necessary. Kobe was often confrontational and Dwight couldn't handle it. |
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LakersInFour
Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 6725
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| CHAMP24 wrote: | | Travers wrote: | If Kobe ever shared the stage with Dwight as co leader, there's every chance for him to earn more titles. Dwight+Gasol+Kobe, you've got two dominant offensive and defensive weapons, with an excellent distributor and facilitator like Kobe(proved to be more than capable), Lakers will be a real contender.
Mitch really has done his work for Kobe. But, similar to 2003, Kobe ruined his titles chance again. |
yeah, just like in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010.......oh wait.... |
Stop trying to confuse the argument with meaningless facts!
_________________
"It’s like going to the Getty and standing in front of Van Gogh’s Irises while some schmuck next to you critiques individual brush strokes. Just shut up already. The more you talk, the more you embarrass yourself." |
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LakerDYnasty72
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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| 55 wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | 55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
| Quote: | | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
Do you not understand that the absolute majority of us do not want to even see this guy's name in a thread? It's such a waste, and I'm trying to be respectful. |
I apologize for making you do something that your eyes prefer not to.
From this moment forward, his name (who we shall not see in a thread) shall be removed for eternity. |
So I don't know if your being flippant or not, but the guy's name in a thread longgggggg after he's gone is so fu...
MODS PLEASE, PLEASE , MOVE, OR .LOCK |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | 55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
| Quote: | | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
Do you not understand that the absolute majority of us do not want to even see this guy's name in a thread? It's such a waste, and I'm trying to be respectful. |
I apologize for making you do something that your eyes prefer not to.
From this moment forward, his name (who we shall not see in a thread) shall be removed for eternity. |
So I don't know if your being flippant or not, but the guy's name in a thread longgggggg after he's gone is so fu...
MODS PLEASE, PLEASE , MOVE, OR .LOCK |
Just about everything Kobe says gets a thread here, basketball related or not. I don't know why this would be any different. |
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Sako32
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Posts: 446
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | Dwight Who  |
The Timelord? |
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BennyLava
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I get that Kobe is the GOAT, and his mentality is like MJ and all but was the Heat locker room the same, with this intense need to combat to win a championship? Was the Spurs locker room the same?
How does Tim Duncan win 5 championships, is his leadership style the same as Kobe's? |
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_#1_
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Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 4752
Location: Next door to 24
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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| 55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
| Quote: | | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
All good except that GSW deal should have been taken. So good riddance Dwight and hello Klay. |
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Nnamdi21
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Joined: 06 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Travers wrote: | If Kobe ever shared the stage with Dwight as co leader, there's every chance for him to earn more titles. Dwight+Gasol+Kobe, you've got two dominant offensive and defensive weapons, with an excellent distributor and facilitator like Kobe(proved to be more than capable), Lakers will be a real contender.
Mitch really has done his work for Kobe. But, similar to 2003, Kobe ruined his titles chance again. |
its pretty clear that the hire of MDA was the worst decision and thats the FO fault. kobe played great until he got injured, one of his best seasons stats wise and dwight struggled with MDA's defensive and offensive strategies. Pau was beat and probably wanted out once he found out he was traded for CP3.
That debacle falls entirely on the FO |
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kwase
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 3069
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Nnamdi21 wrote: | | Travers wrote: | If Kobe ever shared the stage with Dwight as co leader, there's every chance for him to earn more titles. Dwight+Gasol+Kobe, you've got two dominant offensive and defensive weapons, with an excellent distributor and facilitator like Kobe(proved to be more than capable), Lakers will be a real contender.
Mitch really has done his work for Kobe. But, similar to 2003, Kobe ruined his titles chance again. |
its pretty clear that the hire of MDA was the worst decision and thats the FO fault. kobe played great until he got injured, one of his best seasons stats wise and dwight struggled with MDA's defensive and offensive strategies. Pau was beat and probably wanted out once he found out he was traded for CP3.
That debacle falls entirely on the FO |
Exactly!!! I don't know how anybody expected Dwight & Pau to work when Jimbo said himself "I hired MDA because of his association with Nash". MDA does not believe in post-play. He calls that "Your daddy's NBA", so yeah, the FO is to blame for that whole mess with Pau & Dwight. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38776
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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| CHAMP24 wrote: | | Travers wrote: | | 55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
| Quote: | | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
I'd say there's not only one way of leading, Kobe's bread and butter not necessarily Dwight's. Dwight had lead his Magic to conference finals, finals...... without all star teammates' help and brilliant coach like Phi. Put into same situation, I wonder if Kobe can lead Magic that far. Kobe's record without Shaq and Gasol is far from convincing, either missing playoff or fighting for last spot. |
Kobe hater alert.... |
He's just mad cuz his ilk think Kobe is the one standing between Linsanity II... |
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Nick the Quick
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Nick the Quick wrote: | | to me it's crazy that someone wouldn't be open to lessons from a great. even if you don't agree with every little piece, you can take plenty of things away and put them into your own philosophy. but to not even give it a legitimate shot is insane. |
Showing and teaching him what exactly? If it was something tangible like footwork then fine. Kobe never says. |
leading by example. Sitting down and asking and discussing what it takes to win.
It's about having a mentor. And if you don't get that then that's on you |
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frijolero01
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Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| BennyLava wrote: | I get that Kobe is the GOAT, and his mentality is like MJ and all but was the Heat locker room the same, with this intense need to combat to win a championship? Was the Spurs locker room the same?
How does Tim Duncan win 5 championships, is his leadership style the same as Kobe's? |
Everyone has a different style of leadership but they all have a common goal which requires not (bleep) around and getting serious.
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Thank you, Kobe. We love you. |
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LakersNewEra
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Dwight also feuded with Steve Nash. Steve Nash for crying out loud. Who the hell feuds with Steve Nash?
It was a generational thing as well. |
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LakersNewEra
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Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| BennyLava wrote: | I get that Kobe is the GOAT, and his mentality is like MJ and all but was the Heat locker room the same, with this intense need to combat to win a championship? Was the Spurs locker room the same?
How does Tim Duncan win 5 championships, is his leadership style the same as Kobe's? |
I do agree with what you're saying. I think styles may differ and Kobe's approach is not the holy grail, its just one way of getting it done.
I think the trait that really makes the difference at the end of the day is intelligence.
Some players have the talent and the intelligence to win and to lead, no matter their personality and some do not. They figure it out with time and they stick with it.
Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, LeBron..all have different personalities and style but all have intelligence as well. That IMO is the key difference between LeBron and Carmelo.
Some players just learn how to win. Some do not. Shaq fot example was a clown but he was no fool, when he had to get it done, he'd get it done. He said himself that he didn't know how to win until Phil taught him how.
I guess seeing it from that perspective, thats something the Lakers robbed Dwight of, the opportunity to learn from Phil.
It is all FO's fault, no doubt. Even though the Dwight trade was great. Not hiring Phil was the worst decision in franchise history. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| frijolero01 wrote: | | BennyLava wrote: | I get that Kobe is the GOAT, and his mentality is like MJ and all but was the Heat locker room the same, with this intense need to combat to win a championship? Was the Spurs locker room the same?
How does Tim Duncan win 5 championships, is his leadership style the same as Kobe's? |
Everyone has a different style of leadership but they all have a common goal which requires not (bleep) around and getting serious. |
Yep, and for that reason, you won't find guys like Nick Young anywhere near the Spurs in his career.... |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersNewEra wrote: | Dwight also feuded with Steve Nash. Steve Nash for crying out loud. Who the hell feuds with Steve Nash?
It was a generational thing as well. |
D12 was never serious about doing the work required to become a championship winning team. I mean when they first came to the Lakers they were both buddy buddy, but you can see when free agency came thru, D12 kept his distance. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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If you're going to act like an (bleep), you need a master at controlling the locker room to bring the team together, I wonder if his title teams had one of those?
Thinking back through all the "winners", the only 2 i'd peg with that brush is Kobe and Michael.
Duncan, Lebron, Shaq (with people other than Kobe), Hakeem, Magic, Larry, were all either pretty laid back or neutral.
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I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong |
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LakersNewEra
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Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | If you're going to act like an (bleep), you need a master at controlling the locker room to bring the team together, I wonder if his title teams had one of those? |
True dat. Im the biggest Kobe fan but he was never the person to lead others, to be the glue to the cohesive unit. He had the talent, he was the best and he worked hard. Therefore he commanded respect. His way of leading, why other players responded to him was because they respected him. It was Phil obviously who made those teams what they were, who played a huge role in both Kobe and Shaq becoming winners.
And there was Fisher as well.
The greatest leadership job Kobe has done was turning Odom into a championship player.That was all Kobe IMO. And obviously Phil. But Kobe played a huge role here.
Odom respected Kobe, Kobe provided that strong presence he's always needed and Odomwas great. Only Riley/Kobe/Phil were able to provide that for him. We know how he was before and after he was surrounded by them. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| That leadership/lockerroom style may have worked for you Kobe, but plenty of other styles have also worked. Look no further than the last 4 title teams, with the latter having won 4 others in the previous decade. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30679
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersNewEra wrote: | | BennyLava wrote: | I get that Kobe is the GOAT, and his mentality is like MJ and all but was the Heat locker room the same, with this intense need to combat to win a championship? Was the Spurs locker room the same?
How does Tim Duncan win 5 championships, is his leadership style the same as Kobe's? |
I do agree with what you're saying. I think styles may differ and Kobe's approach is not the holy grail, its just one way of getting it done.
I think the trait that really makes the difference at the end of the day is intelligence.
Some players have the talent and the intelligence to win and to lead, no matter their personality and some do not. They figure it out with time and they stick with it.
Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, LeBron..all have different personalities and style but all have intelligence as well. That IMO is the key difference between LeBron and Carmelo.
Some players just learn how to win. Some do not. Shaq fot example was a clown but he was no fool, when he had to get it done, he'd get it done. He said himself that he didn't know how to win until Phil taught him how.
I guess seeing it from that perspective, thats something the Lakers robbed Dwight of, the opportunity to learn from Phil.
It is all FO's fault, no doubt. Even though the Dwight trade was great. Not hiring Phil was the worst decision in franchise history. |
I agree 100%. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick the Quick wrote: | | to me it's crazy that someone wouldn't be open to lessons from a great. even if you don't agree with every little piece, you can take plenty of things away and put them into your own philosophy. but to not even give it a legitimate shot is insane. |
What could he have gained in the last two years staying and being Kobe's teammate over Harden? To win in this league you need talent. I promise you, if roles were reversed and LA had the head coach Dwight believed in, and Kobe was in prime (even with same hard ass attitude) and Houston comes calling, he stays. Number one reason Dwight walked is being proved right now. While he's hurt, his team is still a playoff team as James is playing like a MVP. Meanwhile Kobe has been a shadow of himself playing what 40 games in 2 seasons, our FO is not on the same page as what to do and the organizations best bet is tanking for quality draft pick that can change the course of the franchise.
Seriously do people still think Dwight made the wrong choice or would have become a champion playing with this Kobe? What has Kobe's amazing guidance done for Lin? For Young? You win with talent. No matter how much they may not have gotten along, if you have the right coaching staff and talent, you win a lot of games. That's all it's about. If Kobe is in his prime and they have the coach Dwight wants, he stays as would any star. Simple as that. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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| Travers wrote: | | 55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
| Quote: | | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
I'd say there's not only one way of leading, Kobe's bread and butter not necessarily Dwight's. Dwight had lead his Magic to conference finals, finals...... without all star teammates' help and brilliant coach like Phi. Put into same situation, I wonder if Kobe can lead Magic that far. Kobe's record without Shaq and Gasol is far from convincing, either missing playoff or fighting for last spot. |
Leading them there doesn't matter. Winning when you're there does.
He did it once and they never got close again. No team he's been on since then has actually.
Dwight lead his team to the finals once. Kobe went to the finals 7 times and won 5.
Maybe Dwight should have tried something new and see if it lead t winning. But instead he tried to act like his way was enough cause he 'just made it there' rather than the guy that 'won' there. That is the problem. |
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55
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 12092
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe: "I tried teaching Dwight" |
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| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | 55 wrote: | http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/26/8116095/kobe-bryant-dwight-howard-lakers
| Quote: | | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - and most perceptions of what it's like to win are a very outgoing, very gregarious locker room where you pick each other up and you're friends all the time. That's the perception. And I think that's what his perception was of what the idea is. But when he saw the reality of it, it made him uncomfortable. And it's very tough to be able to fight through that, to deal with that challenge. And I don't think he was willing to deal with that uncomfortable and combative nature. |
Good riddance! |
Do you not understand that the absolute majority of us do not want to even see this guy's name in a thread? It's such a waste, and I'm trying to be respectful. |
I apologize for making you do something that your eyes prefer not to.
From this moment forward, his name (who we shall not see in a thread) shall be removed for eternity. |
So I don't know if your being flippant or not, but the guy's name in a thread longgggggg after he's gone is so fu...
MODS PLEASE, PLEASE , MOVE, OR .LOCK |
What exactly bothers you... His name in the thread title or his name in general even within the thread? Cause I'd like to resolve this issue you're having.
MODS PLEASE BAN, PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE, DELETE, ERASE. (Sounds a bit silly, doesn't it?)
Dwight (oops, I did it again) was a hot topic in Lakerland and his departure was an even bigger topic. The reason he left was even more debated.
So having Kobe tell his side of the story is interesting to some/most Laker fans, and sharing it with those fans is the reason for this thread.
If you don't like it, move on and comment on a different topic. And I'm trying to be respectful.
greenfrog, the last paragraph is in reply to your post as well. |
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55
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Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 12092
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick the Quick wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Nick the Quick wrote: | | to me it's crazy that someone wouldn't be open to lessons from a great. even if you don't agree with every little piece, you can take plenty of things away and put them into your own philosophy. but to not even give it a legitimate shot is insane. |
Showing and teaching him what exactly? If it was something tangible like footwork then fine. Kobe never says. |
leading by example. Sitting down and asking and discussing what it takes to win.
It's about having a mentor. And if you don't get that then that's on you |
Correct. It's quite simple when you read what Kobe said...
| Quote: | | I tried teaching Dwight. I tried showing him. But the reality is that when you have a perception of what it is to win a championship - |
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