LAKERS vs CELTICS: Race to the next championship
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32
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
32 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Celtics have a regular season roster. This is not a contending roster in they playoffs when it's on the shoulders of a 5'9 player.


What does his height have to do with it? It remains to be seen if he can be a #1 option player but he is going to need more help.


Harder to impose yourself over a 7 game series. I guarantee he will be wiped out by the end of this series.


He carried that team on his shoulders this year and it's understandable that he would be fatigued from the regular season. He had an mvp season. He is still young and doesn't have much playoff experience. He needs more help like another all star.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject:

pmacla wrote:
I so hope they give Thomas the supermax next year


They are like the spurs when it comes to contracts. They usually work something out less than the max if it means opening more cap space.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
32 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Celtics have a regular season roster. This is not a contending roster in they playoffs when it's on the shoulders of a 5'9 player.


What does his height have to do with it? It remains to be seen if he can be a #1 option player but he is going to need more help.


Harder to impose yourself over a 7 game series. I guarantee he will be wiped out by the end of this series.


He carried that team on his shoulders this year and it's understandable that he would be fatigued from the regular season. He had an mvp season. He is still young and doesn't have much playoff experience. He needs more help like another all star.


But you can't build your entire playoff strategy on him. He shouldn't be your 1 guy as he's a major liability on th other end too.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
pmacla wrote:
I so hope they give Thomas the supermax next year


They are like the spurs when it comes to contracts. They usually work something out less than the max if it means opening more cap space.


even so if accepts less than the cap it will be 25 mil + per year, and to me he is a good player but he is more of a 6th man rather than the 1st option on a Championship Contender
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
I find it amusing that some of you are trashing them because they play in the eastern conference. Getting the #1 seed is a heck of an accomplishment despite them playing in the eastern conference. They might not do well this year but they gain more valuable experience. This is their third straight year in the playoffs and this is our fourth straight year a lottery team.


Playoff experience is meaningless unless you have guys on the roster who are capable of being a difference in the postseason as a result of that experience. Giving role players experience isn't worth much unless you have a potential championship core in place, like a young Westbrook/Harden/Durant, for example (which the Celtics do not). It still ends you up in the exact same place, experience or not - NBA limbo.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject:

The Celtics are in a tough position. They just gave Horford a Max contract and they have three core players expiring next year. There stat is going to get roughly 4x more than his current salary and you have young guys that need minutes to develop or they may end up as strictly role players at best. They don't know if they are rebuilding or contending. That's why they hesitated on pulling a trade at the deadline.

You can say that Ainge can't draft or maybe it's Stevens isn't great at developing young players. Either way, if they mess up this years pick, the Nets record throughout the last two months was a middle of the pack team. That 2018 pick may not be as high as people tend to think.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
32 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Celtics have a regular season roster. This is not a contending roster in they playoffs when it's on the shoulders of a 5'9 player.


What does his height have to do with it? It remains to be seen if he can be a #1 option player but he is going to need more help.


Harder to impose yourself over a 7 game series. I guarantee he will be wiped out by the end of this series.


He carried that team on his shoulders this year and it's understandable that he would be fatigued from the regular season. He had an mvp season. He is still young and doesn't have much playoff experience. He needs more help like another all star.


Height has a lot to do with it if your 5'9 (I'm an inch and a half taller....yayyyy) and your the star of the team. It would not matter as much if he was a 6th man, or if he had played during the era of two of our all time greats on the banners in the rafters: Gail Goodrich & West.

But at 5'9, a combination of Rondo, a savvy, championship experienced, defensive-minded veteran; Butler, a stud defender whom you can put on Thomas after Rondo tires him out a bit; then you have a defender like Wade play the rover at times when Thomas beats the coverage, and you have a recipe for what's transpiring in the series.

I won't say Rondo & Butler will shut him down, but the playoffs are often about match ups, and this is not a good one for Thomas. He's a dynamic player and I do agree he needs help.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
MickMgl wrote:
32 wrote:
I hate Boston just as much as everyone else here but no way are we better than them right now. Isiah and Horford are better than anybody on our roster.


Whatever faults the Celtics team may have as presently composed, the bottom line is that they are better right now than the Lakers. That's the starting line. And looking ahead to the next three drafts, they are well-stocked with multiple 1st-rounders (at least two are sure-fire lottery picks, plus others) to address their areas of concern. Whereas if the Lakers lose out on a top-3 this year, they have only one other look at the lottery - next year.

There's no way to rationalize this in the Lakers favor if you don't suffer from Laker myopia.


You know which teams were also better than the current Lakers? Iverson's 6ers, Kidd's Nets, etc. Just because you're a good team or even make it to the Finals out of the Leastern Conference doesn't mean you're actually close to being a legit contender. #FoolsGold

I'll take the Lakers upside over the Celtics.


What about the part about the draft picks of each team in the next few years? No comment?

Hey, not that things can't change. But "better right now" + "better draft picks to come" only adds up to one conclusion as far as who's ahead, and you're depending a whole lot on the individual development of the current players.

I hope the Lakers catch up, though. Maybe Celtics will whiff on every lottery pick and 1st-rounder.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Lakers clearly have been better drafting, Celtics have been much better in trades. Selling on Rondo/KG/Pierce gave them a big jump.


They have made two good decisions - trading Pierce/KG when they did and trading for Thomas. However, it still hasn't amounted to anything more than a middle of the road playoff team, which is the only metric that matters.

And the Rondo for Crowder deal. Compare that to the Laker deals over the past 3-4 years.


We haven't made any deals in the last 4 years of note, other than the Lin trade and the Brewer trade, both of which were good deals for us because we got 1st round picks for essentially nothing. We haven't had assets to trade. However, again, the point is that despite having all these assets, what do the Celtics have to show for it? Nada. For the Celtics, its always about what move they will make next because every move they have made thus far hasn't got them any closer to a title.

Even with the Deng/Mozgov deals, the Lakers have been much more effective in creating a team with eventual championship potential than the Celtics have over the last few seasons. The Celtics sacrificed eventual championship contention for immediate playoff contention. The Celtics have wasted their opportunities, while the Lakers, thus far, have made the most of theirs. I'd rather be where we are right now than where the Celtics are.


This is a good argument for why the Celtics are not farther ahead than they are. They've already spent some of their haul of draft picks, and have so far gotten only marginal contributors.

But the fact is that they are ahead, at least until they burn another lottery pick on a future journeyman or until a couple of the young Lakers develop enough to lift the team's results on the court.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject:

Celts are as far ahead as no 1 seed of East can be from 3rd worst record in the league.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:33 am    Post subject:

I think it's fair to say the Celtics are a great regular season team but they get exposed in the playoffs. As of now, they are just not prepared to bring it up a notch like other teams. Part of this is the youth and inexperience of the team and part of it could be coaching. We also have dead weight like Amir Johnson and a tentative Kelly Olynk who doesn't have any confidence.

As for bad drafting, I still like every other part of Marcus Smart's game except his terrible shooting but he has actually showed up in the playoffs unlike some other players like Bradley who always seems to choke in big games. He has a knack for making clutch plays at the end of games too. Terry Rozier just doesn't get enough minutes but we might see him more now according to Brad Stevens.

Jaylen Brown could be potentially a future star but right now has to play behind Jae Crowder but if he got more minutes, we would see what he is capable of. Even with his limited minutes, he has done pretty well as a rookie.

In the regular season, the Celtics relied on their tough defense but I haven't seen much of that these past few games. Rondo is picking them apart and looks like the Rondo of old.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject:

I think it's funny many of you claim Ingram as the next superstar and downplay Brown. They're both going to be really good.

Boston has a very nice young core. Brown has the physical tools and IQ to be an All Star type talent and Smart is likely going down as one of the greatest defenders ever. Add in Fultz to the Boston core and the fact that the Lakers might only get one lottery pick in the next 3 years? Boston would have brighter future than us for sure.

This year's lottery will drastically shape our future.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
I think it's funny many of you claim Ingram as the next superstar and downplay Brown. They're both going to be really good.

Boston has a very nice young core. Brown has the physical tools and IQ to be an All Star type talent and Smart is likely going down as one of the greatest defenders ever. Add in Fultz to the Boston core and the fact that the Lakers might only get one lottery pick in the next 3 years? Boston would have brighter future than us for sure.

This year's lottery will drastically shape our future.


i thought they reached with the 3rd pick, but i agree i think brown will be a good player. i do like our younger guys more compared to theirs. and smarts flopping reputation will hold him back
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
I think it's funny many of you claim Ingram as the next superstar and downplay Brown. They're both going to be really good.

Boston has a very nice young core. Brown has the physical tools and IQ to be an All Star type talent and Smart is likely going down as one of the greatest defenders ever. Add in Fultz to the Boston core and the fact that the Lakers might only get one lottery pick in the next 3 years? Boston would have brighter future than us for sure.

This year's lottery will drastically shape our future.


If we rank the prospects in the last 3 years, Brown is incredibly low on that list. I think he benefits getting some of the hype of a #3 pick, in a horrible draft class. He has a #3 picks body, and that's it.
He literally has zero shooting potential in ISO situations, or any type of pull-up --- it's so bad. He shot 34% on 3s making a 3 every other game - projecting him to be an average 3pt shooter after his last two years on the basketball court, it's a toss up.
He has greattt skill potential slashing, but when you can't shoot - that makes drives really contested, ala Julius Randle.
Seriously, he can't shoot a lick once he puts the ball on the floor - he doesn't have allstar potential. Everything about his shooting is still a big question mark.
At least Ingram had a final month or two where you saw beautiful ISO shooting potential in the midrange. Along with flashing better finishing potential than Brown.
Brown is not really a good prospect (I don't think guys who can't shoot are)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:00 am    Post subject:

romeo wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
I think it's funny many of you claim Ingram as the next superstar and downplay Brown. They're both going to be really good.

Boston has a very nice young core. Brown has the physical tools and IQ to be an All Star type talent and Smart is likely going down as one of the greatest defenders ever. Add in Fultz to the Boston core and the fact that the Lakers might only get one lottery pick in the next 3 years? Boston would have brighter future than us for sure.

This year's lottery will drastically shape our future.


i thought they reached with the 3rd pick, but i agree i think brown will be a good player. i do like our younger guys more compared to theirs. and smarts flopping reputation will hold him back


Smarts defense is amazing at times, really enjoy watching him lock in on opponents.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject:

Celtics don't have a very high ceiling with the current team unless they can add someone like Fultz in the draft.
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject:

High ceiling?

They are in a good position and can compete now and in the future.

Jaylen Brown is the future and perhaps Marcus Smart who can't shoot but comes up clutch in big moments. They will be getting rid of dead weight in Amir Johnson, James Young, perhaps Kelly Olynk and replacing them with better players perhaps a Gordon Hayward who knows and a top 4 pick in the draft in addition to Isaiah, Al Horford, Crowder. That's pretty solid right there.

As for the Lakers, Russell and Clarkson are the future and Ingram looks good but he's still young and it's too soon to say whether he will be a superstar or not. Do you guys really trust Magic to build the next Lakers championship team?
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject:

BirdMagicLegend wrote:
High ceiling?

They are in a good position and can compete now and in the future.

Jaylen Brown is the future and perhaps Marcus Smart who can't shoot but comes up clutch in big moments. They will be getting rid of dead weight in Amir Johnson, James Young, perhaps Kelly Olynk and replacing them with better players perhaps a Gordon Hayward who knows and a top 4 pick in the draft in addition to Isaiah, Al Horford, Crowder. That's pretty solid right there.

As for the Lakers, Russell and Clarkson are the future and Ingram looks good but he's still young and it's too soon to say whether he will be a superstar or not. Do you guys really trust Magic to build the next Lakers championship team?


I don't see how Jaylen Brown is clearly the future when at the same time it's too early to tell if Brandon Ingram will be good? In my opinion, Brandon Ingram and Dangelo Russell have a higher ceiling then anyone on the Celtics. Also, the Celtics future also almost entirely depends on who they get from the two Nets picks. Everyone talks about the Celtics being good now which is great but in terms of a future it doesn't hold that much weight because most of this team will be gone by the time the young guys take over.

I'm just a bias Lakers fan but I'll go as far as to say that if the Lakers keep the pick, whichever team has the higher pick will have the brighter future.
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject:

fwiw, Thomas has crazy big hands. He can palm the ball like it's a grapefruit
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject:

LilJay24 wrote:
In my opinion, Brandon Ingram and Dangelo Russell have a higher ceiling then anyone on the Celtics.


IT's at his ceiling right now of averaging almost 29 points a game. I highly doubt Russell or Ingram will ever do that.
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject:

SwissLakerFan wrote:
LilJay24 wrote:
In my opinion, Brandon Ingram and Dangelo Russell have a higher ceiling then anyone on the Celtics.


IT's at his ceiling right now of averaging almost 29 points a game. I highly doubt Russell or Ingram will ever do that.


What if one of them gives us 22ppg and play both ends of the court? I'd take that over 29 and invisible on the other end.
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject:

Isaiah Thomas & Kobe Bryant:

Quote:
Jay King: Isaiah Thomas explains how Kobe reached out after his sister passed, broke down film with him, still helping him


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6_ICWwAQvs


Quote:
Adam Himmelsbach: Isaiah on his private film session with Kobe: “Mentally, he’s on a different level than anybody I’ve ever met.” 4 hours ago – via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject:

Wizards better win this series. I do not want to have to root for Lebron.
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
I think it's funny many of you claim Ingram as the next superstar and downplay Brown. They're both going to be really good.

Boston has a very nice young core. Brown has the physical tools and IQ to be an All Star type talent and Smart is likely going down as one of the greatest defenders ever. Add in Fultz to the Boston core and the fact that the Lakers might only get one lottery pick in the next 3 years? Boston would have brighter future than us for sure.

This year's lottery will drastically shape our future.


If we rank the prospects in the last 3 years, Brown is incredibly low on that list. I think he benefits getting some of the hype of a #3 pick, in a horrible draft class. He has a #3 picks body, and that's it.
He literally has zero shooting potential in ISO situations, or any type of pull-up --- it's so bad. He shot 34% on 3s making a 3 every other game - projecting him to be an average 3pt shooter after his last two years on the basketball court, it's a toss up.
He has greattt skill potential slashing, but when you can't shoot - that makes drives really contested, ala Julius Randle.
Seriously, he can't shoot a lick once he puts the ball on the floor - he doesn't have allstar potential. Everything about his shooting is still a big question mark.
At least Ingram had a final month or two where you saw beautiful ISO shooting potential in the midrange. Along with flashing better finishing potential than Brown.
Brown is not really a good prospect (I don't think guys who can't shoot are)




If Jaylen Brown shooting 34% on 3's is evidence that he "can't shoot", or has no shooting potential even,then what do you think of D'angelo Russell, who shot 35% on 3s.

Jaylen Brown: EFG% = 50.8
D'Angelo Russell: EFG% = 48.0
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject:

SwissLakerFan wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
I think it's funny many of you claim Ingram as the next superstar and downplay Brown. They're both going to be really good.

Boston has a very nice young core. Brown has the physical tools and IQ to be an All Star type talent and Smart is likely going down as one of the greatest defenders ever. Add in Fultz to the Boston core and the fact that the Lakers might only get one lottery pick in the next 3 years? Boston would have brighter future than us for sure.

This year's lottery will drastically shape our future.


If we rank the prospects in the last 3 years, Brown is incredibly low on that list. I think he benefits getting some of the hype of a #3 pick, in a horrible draft class. He has a #3 picks body, and that's it.
He literally has zero shooting potential in ISO situations, or any type of pull-up --- it's so bad. He shot 34% on 3s making a 3 every other game - projecting him to be an average 3pt shooter after his last two years on the basketball court, it's a toss up.
He has greattt skill potential slashing, but when you can't shoot - that makes drives really contested, ala Julius Randle.
Seriously, he can't shoot a lick once he puts the ball on the floor - he doesn't have allstar potential. Everything about his shooting is still a big question mark.
At least Ingram had a final month or two where you saw beautiful ISO shooting potential in the midrange. Along with flashing better finishing potential than Brown.
Brown is not really a good prospect (I don't think guys who can't shoot are)




If Jaylen Brown shooting 34% on 3's is evidence that he "can't shoot", or has no shooting potential even,then what do you think of D'angelo Russell, who shot 35% on 3s.

Jaylen Brown: EFG% = 50.8
D'Angelo Russell: EFG% = 48.0


Simpson's paradox.

Brown shot 34% on 3s because the majority of his 3s were wide open: 6+ feet of open space between him and his defender. He shot just 34.7% on these, which is really bad. He shot the rest of his 3s when he was open: 4-6 feet of open space between him and the nearest defender. He shot just 28.8% on those. Yes, his raw percentage was okay, but it was only okay because he was getting incredibly easy looks.

Like Ingram, nothing in his regular season performance actually suggests Brown will projects to be a good 3 point shooter. We are optimistic about Ingram due to his college shooting, though. Brown doesn't even have that.
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