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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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There's no room for facts in the plaza. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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kobeandgary Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:42 am Post subject: |
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One thing is for sure the Celtics have a player that is out there performing like an all time great in these playoffs. What Thomas is out there doing is unbelievable, especially at his size. |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47580
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:17 am Post subject: |
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kobeandgary wrote: | One thing is for sure the Celtics have a player that is out there performing like an all time great in these playoffs. What Thomas is out there doing is unbelievable, especially at his size. |
Last pick in his draft, completely undersized, heart of a lion.
You have to give him credit to make the career he has made for himself. I agree, it is unreal what he is doing.
Remember when he was begging to be a Laker? _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:14 am Post subject: |
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kobeandgary wrote: | One thing is for sure the Celtics have a player that is out there performing like an all time great in these playoffs. What Thomas is out there doing is unbelievable, especially at his size. |
That 0 +/- is unbelievable when a guy scores 30. I guess defense really is important. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Imagine if players were taught fundamentals in high school and came into the league knowing how to post up. No way a team would let a guy as small as IT get minutes.
Barbecue chicken... am i right? |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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That is how the Raptors beat them in the regular season, posting him up with Derozan. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Imagine if players were taught fundamentals in high school and came into the league knowing how to post up. No way a team would let a guy as small as IT get minutes.
Barbecue chicken... am i right? |
yup! _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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SwissLakerFan Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Apr 2017 Posts: 113
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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tox wrote: | SwissLakerFan wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | I think it's funny many of you claim Ingram as the next superstar and downplay Brown. They're both going to be really good.
Boston has a very nice young core. Brown has the physical tools and IQ to be an All Star type talent and Smart is likely going down as one of the greatest defenders ever. Add in Fultz to the Boston core and the fact that the Lakers might only get one lottery pick in the next 3 years? Boston would have brighter future than us for sure.
This year's lottery will drastically shape our future. |
If we rank the prospects in the last 3 years, Brown is incredibly low on that list. I think he benefits getting some of the hype of a #3 pick, in a horrible draft class. He has a #3 picks body, and that's it.
He literally has zero shooting potential in ISO situations, or any type of pull-up --- it's so bad. He shot 34% on 3s making a 3 every other game - projecting him to be an average 3pt shooter after his last two years on the basketball court, it's a toss up.
He has greattt skill potential slashing, but when you can't shoot - that makes drives really contested, ala Julius Randle.
Seriously, he can't shoot a lick once he puts the ball on the floor - he doesn't have allstar potential. Everything about his shooting is still a big question mark.
At least Ingram had a final month or two where you saw beautiful ISO shooting potential in the midrange. Along with flashing better finishing potential than Brown.
Brown is not really a good prospect (I don't think guys who can't shoot are) |
If Jaylen Brown shooting 34% on 3's is evidence that he "can't shoot", or has no shooting potential even,then what do you think of D'angelo Russell, who shot 35% on 3s.
Jaylen Brown: EFG% = 50.8
D'Angelo Russell: EFG% = 48.0 |
Simpson's paradox.
Brown shot 34% on 3s because the majority of his 3s were wide open: 6+ feet of open space between him and his defender. He shot just 34.7% on these, which is really bad. He shot the rest of his 3s when he was open: 4-6 feet of open space between him and the nearest defender. He shot just 28.8% on those. Yes, his raw percentage was okay, but it was only okay because he was getting incredibly easy looks.
Like Ingram, nothing in his regular season performance actually suggests Brown will projects to be a good 3 point shooter. We are optimistic about Ingram due to his college shooting, though. Brown doesn't even have that. |
Why would you want any player shooting anything other than wide open 3s? How many 3 and d wings take contested 3 point shots?
A guy that's a rookie, playing minutes on an Eastern Conference Finals team, that shoots 34% from 3 is a good starting point for a career. His makes have actually meant something this year. And you are correct he couldn't shoot a lick at Cal during his one season there. Seeing a guy improve as he has from college to his first year in the NBA is a very positive sign.
Jaylen Brown had more Win Shares this year than Russell and Ingram did. In fact, Ingram had negative Win Shares.
Ingram shot 40/29/62 this year.
Brown shot 45/34/68.
There's nothing statistically that says Ingram is better than Brown. So for you to dismiss him, but think of D'Lo or Ingram as having superstar potential goes completely against what each player has done on the court. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Funkbot wrote: | epak wrote: | Imagine if players were taught fundamentals in high school and came into the league knowing how to post up. No way a team would let a guy as small as IT get minutes.
Barbecue chicken... am i right? |
yup! |
Otto Porter giving it to IT right now. |
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kobeandgary Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 2:36 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | epak wrote: | Imagine if players were taught fundamentals in high school and came into the league knowing how to post up. No way a team would let a guy as small as IT get minutes.
Barbecue chicken... am i right? |
yup! |
Otto Porter giving it to IT right now. |
I'll still take the guy that can go out and get me 50 in the playoffs and carry me to a win, even if it means giving up 19 on the other end. Westbrook, Curry, Paul, Irving etc... no star point guards go out and shut people down. Although i will say Irving seems to guard Curry pretty well. |
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laker4life Star Player
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 7317
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Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: |
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32 wrote: | I hate Boston just as much as everyone else here but no way are we better than them right now. Isiah and Horford are better than anybody on our roster. |
You are right. Those 2 players are much better than what we have on our roster.
Presently, they are ahead of us in the race to another championship.
We are in the lottery and Celtics are in the Eastern Conference Finals. |
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Karmaloop Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Posts: 2387
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Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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SwissLakerFan wrote: |
If Jaylen Brown shooting 34% on 3's is evidence that he "can't shoot", or has no shooting potential even,then what do you think of D'angelo Russell, who shot 35% on 3s.
Jaylen Brown: EFG% = 50.8
D'Angelo Russell: EFG% = 48.0 |
Look also at the attempts, Jaylen Brown averaged 1.7 3PA per game. D'Angelo Russell averaged 6.1 last year. There's a LOT more room for variance with Jaylen Brown. _________________
kikanga wrote: | I'm interested in Olivia Munn. But similar to this LAL/DROZ situation. I don't think the feelings are mutual. |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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The Celtics were looking good especially with their potential additions/trades this summer until they ran into the Cavs. I don't see any of PG/Butler/Hayward compensating for a 40-point drubbing at home. On top of that, you figure PG or Butler will cost them at least one of Avery/Crowder/ Jaylen/Smart/Fultz in addition to the remaining Brooklyn pick. And to clear up the space to sign Hayward outright they'd have to clear at least two out of that group off their cap. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit) |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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They have the most assets out of any team in the league at this point. |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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gng930 wrote: | The Celtics were looking good especially with their potential additions/trades this summer until they ran into the Cavs. I don't see any of PG/Butler/Hayward compensating for a 40-point drubbing at home. On top of that, you figure PG or Butler will cost them at least one of Avery/Crowder/ Jaylen/Smart/Fultz in addition to the remaining Brooklyn pick. And to clear up the space to sign Hayward outright they'd have to clear at least two out of that group off their cap. |
They're in a great, but weird position. I say weird because they have nice young pieces to build on, but they also have win-now veterans that are not really good enough to win-now. Even if they get one of Hayward/Butler/PG13 they'll still be miles behind Cleveland. At some point these guys will have to get paid and they're going to have to choose between going with the youth or trading some of them to go all-in.
Anyway, if nothing else, their young guys get to play in competitive playoff games which will pay dividends down the road. |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | They have the most assets out of any team in the league at this point. |
You're probably right but it couldn't have come at a worse time. Cleveland and GS look to dominate for the next few years. Their best bet might be to flip their current stars for future assets whose timeline will coincide better with their Brooklyn haul and not with Lebron James'. In that sense, they may not be any closer to a championship than we are time-wise. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit) |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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gng930 wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | They have the most assets out of any team in the league at this point. |
You're probably right but it couldn't have come at a worse time. Cleveland and GS look to dominate for the next few years. Their best bet might be to flip their current stars for future assets whose timeline will coincide better with their Brooklyn haul and not with Lebron James'. In that sense, they may not be any closer to a championship than we are time-wise. |
I think they exceeded expectations this year because they have great coaching and a lot of good defenders. With that said, if they want to compete for a title it will be with Fultz and possibly next year's pick as their best players. IT is at best a situational player deep in the playoffs. They have a lot of pieces that don't really fit but are valuable. |
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andree Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2014 Posts: 519
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | gng930 wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | They have the most assets out of any team in the league at this point. |
You're probably right but it couldn't have come at a worse time. Cleveland and GS look to dominate for the next few years. Their best bet might be to flip their current stars for future assets whose timeline will coincide better with their Brooklyn haul and not with Lebron James'. In that sense, they may not be any closer to a championship than we are time-wise. |
I think they exceeded expectations this year because they have great coaching and a lot of good defenders. With that said, if they want to compete for a title it will be with Fultz and possibly next year's pick as their best players. IT is at best a situational player deep in the playoffs. They have a lot of pieces that don't really fit but are valuable. |
The Greek Freak say hallo! |
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NBALakerLegends Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1026
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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i think this series actually help keep Hayward in Utah. His odds went from 80% staying to 97% in my opinion. The Celtics are the laughing stock of the league right now with all the memes on social media.
They're going to be in a tough position next offseason with all their guards either becoming a restricted or unrestricted free agent. Many Celtics fans on RealGM don't want to resign IT and do a minor reset. They would have to trade him this offseason or before the deadline. |
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andree Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2014 Posts: 519
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Boston could trade for PG: Brooklyn 2018 pick, Brown, Crowder and Zeller as expiring contract. The pick would be pretty sweet!
And they can also sign Hayward.
A line-up of IT-Bradley-Hayward-PG-Hortford would give Cavs a real fight!!! |
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Drifts Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004 Posts: 28374
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Celtics gonna get Fultz... they are going to be competitive the next few years... I don't know if that's enough to beat the Cavs though. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Lakers 4 eva Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 3820 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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andree wrote: | Boston could trade for PG: Brooklyn 2018 pick, Brown, Crowder and Zeller as expiring contract. The pick would be pretty sweet!
And they can also sign Hayward.
A line-up of IT-Bradley-Hayward-PG-Hortford would give Cavs a real fight!!! |
IT's contract is up after 2018. How the heck do they sign all those guys? |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers 4 eva wrote: | andree wrote: | Boston could trade for PG: Brooklyn 2018 pick, Brown, Crowder and Zeller as expiring contract. The pick would be pretty sweet!
And they can also sign Hayward.
A line-up of IT-Bradley-Hayward-PG-Hortford would give Cavs a real fight!!! |
IT's contract is up after 2018. How the heck do they sign all those guys? |
What would be sweet is if Boston trades the 1st pick + extra for PG. Boston does decent and makes the playoffs. PG balls out but the Celtics come up short and lose in the Conf Finals again. Then PG opts out. Becomes a free agent, and then signs with the Lakers to make all the Boston fans cry. |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:48 am Post subject: |
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andree wrote: | Boston could trade for PG: Brooklyn 2018 pick, Brown, Crowder and Zeller as expiring contract. The pick would be pretty sweet!
And they can also sign Hayward.
A line-up of IT-Bradley-Hayward-PG-Hortford would give Cavs a real fight!!! |
I don't think they have the cap space to grab Hayward in that scenario without giving up Smart and Fultz. That lineup is flawed for obvious reasons and provides no depth. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit) |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17876
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:01 am Post subject: |
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gng930 wrote: | andree wrote: | Boston could trade for PG: Brooklyn 2018 pick, Brown, Crowder and Zeller as expiring contract. The pick would be pretty sweet!
And they can also sign Hayward.
A line-up of IT-Bradley-Hayward-PG-Hortford would give Cavs a real fight!!! |
I don't think they have the cap space to grab Hayward in that scenario without giving up Smart and Fultz. That lineup is flawed for obvious reasons and provides no depth. |
Agreed. If they sign Hayward, they should look for a bonafide star at the 4 or 5 where they're weak. I don't know who's on the market, though. |
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