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A Mad Chinaman
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 Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| tyusedney1 wrote: | | JLinfanJoe wrote: | Byron Scott's post-game comments:
| Quote: | | "We want good players. We want good people,” Scott said. “But we want guys who want to win every single game too. I have no place for guys who are selfish and guys who are looking out for themselves. We haven’t been doing that all season long to be honest with you. So tonight surprised me.” |
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i was thinking Lin, ED, Ellington, and Black are the only four players to fit the bold description. but, knowing BS, he was probably saying Lin is the selfish player all year long out of the whole team. am i wrong? |
BScott never stated that JLin played selfishly.
Numerous players during post-game interviews clearly stated that they did not give the Knicks their proper respect. This amazing fact was posed to BScott during the post-game interview with the anticipated response.
JLin is playing more confidently and purpose, hence playing better. Should we expect JLin (or JHill or Boozer) to display the Robert Horry-described "veteranism" via prompting the players to be accountable to providing the proper respect and effort.
JLin is a good player on a team that needs him to be the best player, as stated in a recent ESPN article. Which teams would be a good match to have JLin be their starting PG. Would his skillset be more appropriate as an outstanding PG coming off the bench? |
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ADA32
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
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sf2099
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ....BScott never stated that JLin played selfishly..... |
Not true.
I don't have the time to dig up the quote, but one of the reporters asked about Lin after Scott spoke about the team playing selfishly.
Scott said something like "...as far as he was concerned, Jeremy did not play any different than other Lakers..."
Should I have been surprised considering Lin had the team's most assists that night? Nope. Scott is:
Horrible at communicating;
Not a good tactician;
Not a good strategist;
And most of all, he likes to throw his players under the bus because Scott is <strong>never at fault</strong>.
At best, Scott is an assistant coach material and should stay far away from players.
PS. Thanks again for the honest recap DB! |
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bws94
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| sf2099 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ....BScott never stated that JLin played selfishly..... |
Not true.
I don't have the time to dig up the quote, but one of the reporters asked about Lin after Scott spoke about the team playing selfishly.
Scott said something like "...as far as he was concerned, Jeremy did not play any different than other Lakers..."
Should I have been surprised considering Lin had the team's most assists that night? Nope. Scott is:
Horrible at communicating;
Not a good tactician;
Not a good strategist;
And most of all, he likes to throw his players under the bus because Scott is <strong>never at fault</strong>.
At best, Scott is an assistant coach material and should stay far away from players.
PS. Thanks again for the honest recap DB! |
I agree. Why would he go out of his way to continue to not support one of the better team players on the team and his best post-ASB player. AFAIC, Lin and Davis are the two most consistently team-minded players of the Lakers. Black seems to have some of that in him too. Ellington can be also. I find Hill, Boozer to be less so, occasionally Boozer will look for the open man and to move the ball and help on defense. Hill is best when rebounding, not holding the ball or being indecisive with it. Clarkson is a rookie and has his moments of team-minded ball vs. scoring, but he can get into the scoring mode and has issues with defense. All part of development, Clarkson is fine. Wes just needs to work on his mental game, and a lot. Kelly is struggling badly, he's playing out of position. I felt sorry for him on that early game shot, it was just horrible.
They didn't play with the proper urgency and they lost the game to a Knicks team that had their guards step up. Competition is going to get tough next 2 games as Lin said, the best chance at a W was the last game and Phil Jackson played the mind game and won it over the Lakers coaching and ownership like he tends to do. |
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Captain America
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
You're not seriously suggesting we have our best 5 starting are you? When Ryan Kelly is in the starting lineup, you know it is dark times in LA... |
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
Not really. Only that they didn't play as well with Kobe. |
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WuKong
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
If he plays well off the bench then that is where he belongs?!? I thought if you played well you earned playing time and a starting position?
Also the actual facts are that the play is different now that Kobe is out and even more different now that NY is out. They are playing more uptempo and more P&R. That is why he is 'playing better' NOT b/c he is coming off the bench.
JLin is not starting because BS is an idiot and this storied 'we are the champions' organization backed themselves into a deep dark hole and are now sadly yet proudly trying to lose... |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain America wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
You're not seriously suggesting we have our best 5 starting are you? When Ryan Kelly is in the starting lineup, you know it is dark times in LA... |
I am asking who would you have as the starters?
Interesting that BScott has often mentioned that JLin is not assertive enough and/or not playing with confidence/purpose, yet you are saying that BScott called JLin "selfish"
Having the best stats on this Lakers squad is a big achievement?
JLin is playing better because of his consistent focus of playing his game - a form of selfishness needed to be a good PG.
Is anybody saying that JLin deserves to be handed the starting PG position for this team next year and can lead it to the playoffs?
How will JLin play with the Black Mamba and the anticipated FA, noting his issues of playing with a superstar.
JLin is a great player in the locker room that needs to play well as the second fiddle like Pau Gasol (who fit in seemlessly and quickly in The Triangle, supposedly a hard system to learn). Maybe he would be a perfect fit with DFish/Zen Master's Triangle-based Knicks team.
RKelly is playing SF because he has too many PFs. Wondering if BScott will try him at the 5 since Sacre has been ineffective and RKelly should be able to get his shot off on the perimeter while letting Black/ED/JHill get the boards |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| WuKong wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
If he plays well off the bench then that is where he belongs?!? I thought if you played well you earned playing time and a starting position?
Also the actual facts are that the play is different now that Kobe is out and even more different now that NY is out. They are playing more uptempo and more P&R. That is why he is 'playing better' NOT b/c he is coming off the bench.
JLin is not starting because BS is an idiot and this storied 'we are the champions' organization backed themselves into a deep dark hole and are now sadly yet proudly trying to lose... |
BScott has not changed the offense that much. JLin has noted that when Clarkson (and even Price, at times) played in a more attack mode and was effective
P&Rs are part of every system and BScott does not call most of the plays.
At this time of the season, BScott is trying different lineups to give players a chance to show their skills. Players care more about the amount of PT and closing games.
Even if Phil, Pop, Karl and other top coaches were at the helm of this roster, they would be doing the same thing as BScott.
It should be noted that BScott's comments on P&R were the exact words that Phil Jackson clearly stated |
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tyusedney1
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
huh? they just proved that they are good players. well, not so much Boozer as he doesn't play a lick of defense. and byron doesn't even have a system that works anywhere so your logic failed on multiple levels, smh |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| tyusedney1 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
huh? they just proved that they are good players. well, not so much Boozer as he doesn't play a lick of defense. and byron doesn't even have a system that works anywhere so your logic failed on multiple levels, smh |
Guilty as charged.
BScott's system did not work well with such mediocre PGs such as JKidd and CP3 who never had any success in the playoffs. |
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cdg
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
If you were to be head coach and you are in a position where
it is much much more rewarding to NOT win any more games,
what would you do?
Now sadly, the above "if" is the reality.
I think the whole discussion should be made with this assertion underlying it.
Also, I remember reading somewhere where B.S. said that
the rest of the season is to groom the youngsters.
So I hope everything makes more sense now that we know what the
final goal is.
Having said all this, I still think B.S. is not a v good coach and
is quite horrible at communications and should stop talking
to the team via the media. |
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catman2u
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
I have no issue with JLin off the bench in fact I think the extra energy he infuses is very helpful. I just think BS should actually try and get creative. Overlap JC and JLin for longer time spans. It has only taken BS 60 games to finally come around and see that Davis and Lin have a chemistry that is (was?) worth building upon. I also think the way both JC and JLin can attack the basket is good for the team and would enjoy seeing more. |
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catman2u
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| cdg wrote: | Hello,
If you were to be head coach and you are in a position where
it is much much more rewarding to NOT win any more games,
what would you do?
Now sadly, the above "if" is the reality.
I think the whole discussion should be made with this assertion underlying it.
Also, I remember reading somewhere where B.S. said that
the rest of the season is to groom the youngsters.
So I hope everything makes more sense now that we know what the
final goal is.
Having said all this, I still think B.S. is not a v good coach and
is quite horrible at communications and should stop talking
to the team via the media. |
Ugh. Enough with the next season bs. I have no issue but in order to groom youngster, aka JC, he needs to be around players that can facilitate, can do p&r, can run, push the ball in transition and perhaps finally...ah, never mind, I give up. Oh and play some D. Boozer is hopeless but the rest of the team can learn team D in the time that is left. |
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fiendishoc
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Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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While watching the game, I marked down what plays the team ran on offense. It was about a 40-30-30 split between PnR, Off ball motion, and isolation (including post) type plays. I didn't go back and check the accuracy, so it's just a rough observation.
Here are the results for the non-transition non-out of bounds plays:
| Code: | Plays % of total
High PnR 23 27%
Side PnR 8 9%
Horns PnR 3 4%
Horns Elbow 10 12%
Horns DHO 1 1%
Chin 7 8%
Floppy 5 6%
Handoff 1 1%
Pindown 1 1%
Iso Jumper 6 7%
Iso Drive 5 6%
Iso Post 10 12%
Pinch post 4 5%
Flex Post 1 1% |
The most common play, High PnRs, resulted in 9 made 2pters, 1 made 3pter, 4 shooting fouls, 1 non-shooting foul, 2 TO's, 12 missed shots, 3 Orebs, and 1 putback. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | While watching the game, I marked down what plays the team ran on offense. It was about a 40-30-30 split between PnR, Off ball motion, and isolation (including post) type plays. I didn't go back and check the accuracy, so it's just a rough observation.
Here are the results for the non-transition non-out of bounds plays:
| Code: | Plays % of total
High PnR 23 27%
Side PnR 8 9%
Horns PnR 3 4%
Horns Elbow 10 12%
Horns DHO 1 1%
Chin 7 8%
Floppy 5 6%
Handoff 1 1%
Pindown 1 1%
Iso Jumper 6 7%
Iso Drive 5 6%
Iso Post 10 12%
Pinch post 4 5%
Flex Post 1 1% |
The most common play, High PnRs, resulted in 9 made 2pters, 1 made 3pter, 4 shooting fouls, 1 non-shooting foul, 2 TO's, 12 missed shots, 3 Orebs, and 1 putback. |
Thanks, as always, for posting the breakdowns
Is there a way to get the breakdowns with JLIn and Clarkson - separately? |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Posts: 6148
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| sf2099 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ....BScott never stated that JLin played selfishly..... |
Not true.
I don't have the time to dig up the quote, but one of the reporters asked about Lin after Scott spoke about the team playing selfishly.
Scott said something like "...as far as he was concerned, Jeremy did not play any different than other Lakers..."
Should I have been surprised considering Lin had the team's most assists that night? Nope. Scott is:
Horrible at communicating;
Not a good tactician;
Not a good strategist;
And most of all, he likes to throw his players under the bus because Scott is <strong>never at fault</strong>.
At best, Scott is an assistant coach material and should stay far away from players.
PS. Thanks again for the honest recap DB! |
As Emplay reported in his last article, BScott stated
"I think we were just selfish as a basketball team tonight. I think a lot of our guys came in here looking at New York, thinking this is going to be an easy win."
Given that this roster has four rookies (Clarkson, Randle, Brown, Black), one player with one season (RKelly) and one second year player (Sacre) - should we expect some Robert Horry-described "veteranism" from JLin at his PG position? As previously stated, JLin has talent and is a good player that would seem to be ideal for a really young team.
The reality appears that he needs to be on a veteran-laden team with no superstars that does not need a leader on the court to make the others accountable (ala George Karl's Denver Nuggets)
A |
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sf2099
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | ... The reality appears that he needs to be on a veteran-laden team with no superstars that does not need a leader on the court to make the others accountable (ala George Karl's Denver Nuggets)
A |
DB puts in a lot of effort in providing us with authentic game recaps so I have no desire to add my ramblings here.
So if you wish, we can discuss this further in the Lin thread.  |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sf2099 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ... The reality appears that he needs to be on a veteran-laden team with no superstars that does not need a leader on the court to make the others accountable (ala George Karl's Denver Nuggets) |
DB puts in a lot of effort in providing us with authentic game recaps so I have no desire to add my ramblings here.
So if you wish, we can discuss this further in the Lin thread. |
My comments are not just on JLin but on how his effectiveness affects the entire rookie-laden roster in this injury-filled season, especially since he is a seasoned PG making $14M. He is a player with talent with a mindset like Pau Gasol who is best utilized as "Robin" to a "Batman" that does not need the ball (don't know too many superstars that fit this description) |
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bws94
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | tyusedney1 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ADA32 wrote: | | Does it ever occur to BScott our start lineup sucks! |
Who would you like to be starters since JLin and Boozer have proven to be better coming off the bench |
huh? they just proved that they are good players. well, not so much Boozer as he doesn't play a lick of defense. and byron doesn't even have a system that works anywhere so your logic failed on multiple levels, smh |
Guilty as charged.
BScott's system did not work well with such mediocre PGs such as JKidd and CP3 who never had any success in the playoffs. |
Didn't JKidd get him fired. It's not Byron's system that worked more than he got out of the way for HOF caliber PGs to use their talents. Byron isn't doing that with Lin that much and the few times Lin was free to do his thing he went on a good stretch with the Lakers winning a few of those games. |
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DancingBarry
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Joined: 07 Sep 2001
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Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | sf2099 wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | ... The reality appears that he needs to be on a veteran-laden team with no superstars that does not need a leader on the court to make the others accountable (ala George Karl's Denver Nuggets) |
DB puts in a lot of effort in providing us with authentic game recaps so I have no desire to add my ramblings here.
So if you wish, we can discuss this further in the Lin thread. |
My comments are not just on JLin but on how his effectiveness affects the entire rookie-laden roster in this injury-filled season, especially since he is a seasoned PG making $14M. He is a player with talent with a mindset like Pau Gasol who is best utilized as "Robin" to a "Batman" that does not need the ball (don't know too many superstars that fit this description) |
That Batman would likely need to be a big (guys like L.A, Brow, etc.) that he can run two-man game with...not ball dominant guards and wings and not a big who clogs the paint. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
It should be noted that BScott's comments on P&R were the exact words that Phil Jackson clearly stated |
This is true. The two-man sequences prior to the fourth would usually be weak side pinch post situations out of the triangle or pnr only when things scramble and guys have to quickly create. He'd save the two-man pnr as his bread and butter in crunch time.
There are a lot of problems with what Scott is doing (or wanted to do) in that it's just pieces of systems most of the game. Our depth of knowledge in sets is pretty shallow with very limited ability to go to counters. And it really struggled to get penetration via pass, post or drive. Only thing that got penetration was two-man sequences. So we are reduced to inefficient long twos for long stretches when we don't do that. |
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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | While watching the game, I marked down what plays the team ran on offense. It was about a 40-30-30 split between PnR, Off ball motion, and isolation (including post) type plays. I didn't go back and check the accuracy, so it's just a rough observation.
Here are the results for the non-transition non-out of bounds plays:
| Code: | Plays % of total
High PnR 23 27%
Side PnR 8 9%
Horns PnR 3 4%
Horns Elbow 10 12%
Horns DHO 1 1%
Chin 7 8%
Floppy 5 6%
Handoff 1 1%
Pindown 1 1%
Iso Jumper 6 7%
Iso Drive 5 6%
Iso Post 10 12%
Pinch post 4 5%
Flex Post 1 1% |
The most common play, High PnRs, resulted in 9 made 2pters, 1 made 3pter, 4 shooting fouls, 1 non-shooting foul, 2 TO's, 12 missed shots, 3 Orebs, and 1 putback. |
Thanks, as always, for posting the breakdowns
Is there a way to get the breakdowns with JLIn and Clarkson - separately? |
Unfortunately I didn't have time to log the initiator of each action. The game just moves too quickly for that much detail. A lot of the screens were set for Wes and Ellington as well.
Also, I forgot to mention that the Hi PnR stats above include transition, OOB, and secondary action plays (as part of other types of playcalls) as well, while the earlier total stats included only the normal half court sets, so the total number is a lot higher.
There were two transition/ early offense Hi PnR, which resulted in a basket, and FTs. There was one OOB play which was a miss, and the secondary action high pick and roll, resulted in 1 2ptr, 1 3ptr, 2 misses, and 1 flow into another secondary action.
| DancingBarry wrote: |
There are a lot of problems with what Scott is doing (or wanted to do) in that it's just pieces of systems most of the game. Our depth of knowledge in sets is pretty shallow with very limited ability to go to counters. And it really struggled to get penetration via pass, post or drive. Only thing that got penetration was two-man sequences. So we are reduced to inefficient long twos for long stretches when we don't do that. |
I think if it were any other team, I wouldn't have been able to count up the plays so easily- because the other teams go into so many secondary actions, while we just tend to jack it up after the first action. |
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