HAWKS -at- LAKERS - 3-15-15 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:50 pm    Post subject: HAWKS -at- LAKERS - 3-15-15 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

Losing Against the Hawks B Team… Before the game, the Hawks sat three of their key players. Then Kyle Korver broke his nose and was done for the night. Now they had spotted the Lakers four players.

The Lakers responded with 10 turnovers and 31 percent shooting in the first half to trail by 3.

They would end up with 22 turnovers off of which the Hawks scored 28 points. It looked like a preseason game. “You make a mistake, they are going to make you pay,” Scott said.

Down 16 with 5:40 left, the Lakers went on a run. Over the next several minutes they would trim the lead to just 2 points with 30 seconds left. Clarkson and Boozer were key during that stretch, and Wes hit a huge three with to get them to within just the single bucket.

Scott called a timeout. He left the Boozer/Kelly frontcourt in there defensively and promptly saw Boozer give up a layup off the high screen. No defensive sub…that was the ball game. The Lakers lost 91-86.

Afterward, he wasn’t happy with the team, with a comment about the Hawks that sounded more like a critique of his squad.

“They play the game the way it should be played,” he said of the Hawks. “They played without an agenda. The bottom line should be winning.”


Clarkson -- -- He led the Laker starters with 10 points, the only starter in double digits. He also led the team with 6 assists before fouling out on an intentional foul. Good job on the offensive glass, pulling down 4. The Hawks down get out on the fastbreak so Clarkson probably got a little more aggressive crashing. He had two of his points taken away on a putback jam that was a fraction of a second after the shotclock expired. Clarkson, Lin and Ellington all had issues trying to defend Schroder, who had 24 points and 10 assists, including the huge dagger layup, when Clarkson got screened off and Boozer got exploited. “He guarded people, he made an effort in that department. Offensively, he just didn’t shoot the ball well,” Scott said, but mentioned Clarkson’s boards and assists. Clarkson said the bigs weren’t setting screens in that first quarter where the Lakers scored just 14 points. He mentioned that in the fourth quarter that’s what opened things up for them. The Stats: He scored 10 points on 4-13 shooting (0-1 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 8 boards (4 offensive), 6 assists, 2 turnovers and 6 fouls in 31 minutes. He was a -2. The Action: He hit the top-of-the-key pull-up jumper working the high screen in early offense. He missed a long jumper next time down. He missed an open corner three and a putback attempt. He missed a double-clutching jumper getting caught in the air. He was called for a carry. He couldn’t handle a backdoor pass (he may have been expecting the lob). He missed a good look at an elbow jumper. He was stripped from behind. He swished a wing jumper taking a pass after coming off a screen. He missed an open FT jumper, got to hit those. He drew FTs on a floater, he made both. He took the inbounds pass with 7 seconds left, pushed it up, hesitated a beat, attacked and banked in the hooking layup over a couple defenders before hitting the floor (athleticism paid off there). He scored 8 points on 3-8 shooting to go with 4 boards and 1 assist. Second Half: He crashed the glass and slammed down a miss by Wes (they would take this away later on a review, shotclock violation). He kicked out to Hill for the jumper. He crossed over and missed the long wing jumper. He drew the sideline trap, then slipped a pass to Davis who scored an And-1 layup. He missed a wing jumper. He missed a tip-in attempt. He swished a pull-up 12-footer working off the screen in early offense. He blew past his man and hit Davis for the dunk. He missed a drive, but got it back.

Hill -- -- Not a lot of notes for Hill and Scott didn’t bring him back in to close the game, instead opting to keep Boozer in and slide Kelly to PF. Not an effective scoring night. Jordan had a couple percentage busting long jumpers against the clock that skewed those stats a little. He did get to 4 offensive boards which is what you like to see. Scott wasn’t pleased with the screen setting by the bigs, a problem all season. “We just don’t do a good job of that for some reason,” Scott said. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 3-10 shooting to go with 9 boards (4 offensive), 2 assists, 2 turnover and 2 fouls in 22 minutes. He was a -15. The Action: He missed a tough wing jumper on the inbounds, just beating the shotclock. He missed a 20-footer. He missed a putback attempt. He muscled his way across the lane and hit the jumphook. He missed another long jumper, forced to throw it up quickly to beat the clock again. He fumbled a pass away. He missed an open 19-footer. He had just 2 points on 1-7 shooting to go with 7 boards. Second Half: He hit an 18-foot set shot off the kickout from Clarkson. He missed one from the same spot. He put back in a missed jumper.

Black -- -- I’d have been curious how the outcome of that final hoop by the Hawks would have gone had we sat Boozer for Black defensively. The vet for the rookie. It would have been a perfect opportunity for Black to get a little experience…and you know he wouldn’t have been as abused as Boozer was. Missed opportunity. Good job on the glass by Tarik. The Lakers had 20 more rebounds than the Hawks with a 19-7 advantage on the offensive glass. That kept the Lakers in this. “You cut that in half (turnovers) and that’s a win for us,” Tarik said. The Stats: He scored 7 points on 2-5 shooting (3-3 from the line) to go with 7 boards (4 offensive), 1 assist, 1 block, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 21 minutes. He was a -8. The Action: He drew a foul on the offensive glass to regain possession. He grabbed an offensive board, but missed the short one. He took a pass in the paint, drew contact and threw up and in an And-1, he made the FT. He drew FTs and made both. He kept a possession alive with a couple of tips. He had 5 points and 6 boards. Second Half: He fumbled a pass out of bounds. He scored a layup off the drive and dish from Ellington. He shed a man to get open and was called for the foul. He rejected a drive.

Ellington -- -- “It’s tough. We end up losing by single digits and we give up 22 turnovers,” Ellington said. Not a good shooting night from Ellington. He made two threes, but that was it in his 11 attempts. I would have been interested to see Brown given the opportunity to close this one, especially how Ellington shot. Annoyed. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 2-11 shooting (2-4 from three) to go with 1 board, 4 assists, 2 turnovers and 1 foul in 24 minutes. He was a -4. The Action: He swished a step-back three straight away to start the Lakers scoring. He threw an interior pass away. He missed a layup on the break. He missed a drive. He missed a wing jumper after letting a man fly by. He missed a pull-up wing jumper in early offense. He attacked and couldn’t finish over a big. He had 3 points on 1-6 shooting. Second Half: He attacked a crowd and bounced it to Black for a layup. He swished an open catch-and-shoot three straight away. He missed a three in transition. He missed a pull-up jumper off a screen, a little forced. He missed a short wing jumper. He missed a step-back wing three.

Johnson -- -- He swished a huge corner three with 30 seconds left to cut the lead to just 2. Big shot. He must have been feeling himself because he took a horrible off-balance, corner jumper off an inbounds with 9 seconds left and wasn’t close. That was ugly. Outside of that final minute’s highs and lows, pretty bland game from Wes the rest of the night. The Stats: He scored 8 points on 3-8 shooting (1-4 from three, 1-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 block, 2 turnovers and 1 foul in 26 minutes. He was a -14. The Action: Nice challenge under the hoop to alter a layup. He drew FTs trying finish at the rim off a baseline off-ball cut, he made one. He missed a step-back three. Second Half: He missed a reverse on a baseline drive but Clarkson slammed it back down. He hit a baseline pull-up jumper. He attacked, hung and scored a layup. He missed a three in transition. He missed a forced layup in transition. He attacked and lost it. He slapped Horford 20 feet from the hoop to give up FTs with 45 seconds left. He sank a huge step-back three with 30 seconds left from in front of the Lakers bench to cut it to 2. Bad off-balance corner jumper on an inbounds and he wasn’t close with 9 seconds left.

Lin -- -- Scott was definitely ticked with Lin when he sat him in the fourth quarter tonight with 9 minutes left down 14. It wasn’t a good game. The passing was particularly sloppy, a couple of them probably went as turnovers to his bigs, but Lin gave them the ball in bad positions (running full speed about 15 feet or so from the hoop with defenders in front of them). He just seemed really out of rhythm most of the night. He would finish with 4 turnovers and 0 assists. That about sums up how this game looked in general for the Lakers, whether he was on the floor or off it, except for the last several minutes when the Lakers made a run. “Everything just seemed off today,” Lin said. The Stats: He scored 7 points on 3-6 shooting (0-1 from three) to go with 3 boards, no assists, 3 steals, 4 turnovers and 1 foul in 19 minutes. He was a -10. The Action: Sloppy pass on the two-man game and it was deflected (three the other way). Ill-advised pass to Davis trailing the action and Davis charged into a crowd. He attacked and was promptly rejected (Davis cleaned it up). He probed in early offense and swished the short pull-up jumper. He pumped his man in the air and then wrapped a pass around him to Davis for FTs. He tied up his man on a drive to force a jumpball, which he won. He made a tech FT. He airballed a wing three (might have been blocked). He had 3 points on 1-3 shooting and no assists. Second Half: Really poor decision in transition to give it to Hill at full speed about 16 feet from the hoop (Hill had to quickly throw it away for a turnover; Lin would have been better served to keep it or wait until his big was in better position). He swiped the ball back in transition. Another sloppy pass against a trap, turnover. He pumped a couple of times and hit the jumper. He took a foul to give that we didn’t have. He attacked and was blocked or stripped, bringing the ball down instead of going for a short floater. He took the Davis steal the distance and scored the layup. He attacked baseline, wheeled back into the lane, looked like he would shoot, then kicked out and Davis was called for three seconds.

Boozer -- -- He came up big down the stretch with a couple of key jumpers. Scott, however, had opportunity to go with a defensive sub to get a stop. Instead, he left Boozer in, the Hawks attacked him off a screen and easily scored a key layup. I would say that was brilliant tank strategy if I hadn’t seen Scott do this several times already this season. Boozer had a couple of funny moments on court – yelling for an And-1 on what looked like a clear charge. The second, choosing to ball-fake a wide open Kelly and attack a crowd instead. Talk about no confidence in Kelly. Ouch. The Stats: He scored 13 points on 5-10 shooting (3-4 from the line) to go with 7 boards, 3 assists, 4 turnovers and 3 fouls in 27 minutes. He was a +3. The Action: He missed a wing jumper. He was blocked under the hoop. He airballed a baseline jumper. He fumbled a pass away. He slowly backed his man down with several dribbles, then drew the foul, he made one FT. He ball-faked to an open Kelly (lol), attacked a crowd instead and missed. Second Half: He iso’d and swished the wing jumper. He was called for a charge, yelling And-1 (lol). He popped free and swished an elbow jumper on the weakside. He attacked and drew FTs. He missed a short one in the paint. He bumped a man and hit the short jumphook. He iso’d and sank a baseline step-back jumper. He swished a FT jumper to cut it to 4 with a minute left. Hawks attacked him on a high screen and scored a huge layup to go up 4 with 14 seconds left.

Davis -- -- He broke Korver’s nose with a stiff screen on the perimeter. That was probably his biggest contribution as it took another key weapon away from the Hawks. Excellent game from Ed with the 13 boards, 4 assists and 2 blocks in just 24 minutes. If you really wanted the win, he should have been in there for Boozer on that final play. He might have swatted that layup. Kelly/Boozer aren’t stopping anyone. Ed had 3 turnovers tonight, none of the bigs seemed to handle the ball well. A lot of fumbles. He was irked with his, which a couple came off of screens and another was a three-second call. He said they need to get better at screens, as well. “Just try to make contact and try to slip off of quick,” he said. The Stats: He scored 7 points on 3-5 shooting (1-3 from the line) to go with 13 boards (3 offensive), 4 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks, 3 turnovers and 4 fouls in 24 minutes. He was a +7. The Action: He charged off the pass on the break from Lin. He cleaned up Lin’s rejected drive for a layup. He drew FTs off the pass from Lin in the middle of the lane, he missed both. He was called for an illegal screen. He got a piece of a turnaround jumper. Good job with Boozer keeping a miss alive and it led to second-chance points. He missed a rushed jumphook. He had 2 points and 8 boards in the half. Second Half: He fumbled a pass away under the hoop. He swiped a bounce pass to ignite a break. He took the pass from Clarkson who drew the double team, took a dribble around a defender and flipped in an And-1 layup, he made the FT. He missed a layup around his man. He dunked off the Clarkson drive and dish. He rejected a drive off the glass. He was stripped in the paint off the offensive board.

Kelly -- -- He went 0-14 before finally scoring a layup in this one to snap the dubious streak over the previous four games. He led the Lakers (along with Boozer) with 13 points and led with a +12. When Kelly is your leading scoring and +/-? Ouch. He was a lot more aggressive in this one, taking nearly as many shots in this one as in the previous four games. Scott slid him to PF again to close the game, also. We might see this a little more. He needs a shot at it with how bad he’s been playing out of position at SF. Hopefully, the coach throws him a bone…it’s not going to hurt anything. The Stats: He scored 13 points on 5-12 shooting (3-6 from three) to go with 4 boards, 1 assist, 1 turnover and no fouls in 24 minutes. He was a +12. The Action: He attacked and fumbled it away, layup the other way. He missed an open wing jumper. He had an airball go right to him and he scored the layup to finally scratch out a field goal after four games without one. He missed a three on a kickout. He sank an open sideline three on the swing pass. He missed a three. He missed a floater. He took a pass under the hoop and powered up between defenders for the layup. He had 7 points on 3-7 shooting. Second Half: He sank a wing three. He faked a man, attacked baseline, looked like he was going to shoot a leaner but missed a scoop instead. He let a man fly by, moved in a dribble off the three line and bricked the open jumper. He wished a quick-fire turnaround wing three on an inbounds with 6.9 left to cut it to 3. He airballed a three at the buzzer.

Brown -- -- “I think he has a place in this league,” Scott said, mentioning he’s playing much more aggressive on both ends. Good minutes again from him and I would have had him close the game with how bad Ellington was shooting. There were moments for big shots for him and you can’t replicate that. If this is evaluation time, that would have been a good opportunity. He had a layup, dunk, floater and a three in this one. The Stats: The Action: He swiped a pass in transition, pushed it up and scored a layup around a defender. He poked a ball away from behind, took the outlet and dunked. He went glass on a floater from the wing. He had 6 points on 3-3 shooting. Second Half: He measured and drained a three behind a bigman straight away. He missed a tough step-back three up against the shotclock. He hit the backside of Davis (it looked like on a pass), turnover, hustled back and was called for the foul on a good block attempt (looked a little like Wes tracking a man down).

Scott -- -- The Lakers trailed 11-8 when the timeout came midway through the quarter. A lot of perimeter misses… He brought in Boozer and Lin for Black and Ellington… He sat Hill for Davis, Lakers down 10… Brown in for Clarkson with 3 minutes left… Kelly in for Johnson, Lakers down 12… A 12-0 run for the Hawks before the Lakers scored again the quarter… The Lakers trailed 23-14 after the first quarter… He started a Davis, Boozer, Kelly, Brown, Lin lineup… They cut the lead to 25-19 when the timeout came… They cut the lead to 2 when the next timeout came… The Hawks brought in their starters, the Lakers brought in Clarkson for Lin… Hill and Black back in… Ellington in for Brown, Lakers down 5 again… Wes in for Kelly, Lakers down 7… The Lakers trailed 41-38. They shot just 31% and had 10 turnovers… The coaches figured they would shoot better in the second half and they wanted the Lakers to push tempo… He brought in Lin for Clarkson midway through the quarter, changing up his rotation from the first half. Lakers down 8 a shot later… He brought in Brown, Boozer and Davis… Ugly quarter. Turnovers, bricks. Not pleasant to watch at all… The Lakers trailed 68-58 heading into the fourth… Kelly in for Wes to start the quarter… He sat Lin for Clarkson with 9 minutes left (he looked ticked at Lin)… A little flurry by Clarkson and the Lakers cut the lead to 7 to force a timeout (9-0 Laker run)… Wes in for Davis, sliding Kelly to PF. Lakers down 8 with 2 minutes left… Down 6, they got a shotclock violation with 1:15 left… Down 85-80 with 45 seconds left, he called timeout. They went quick, missed two shots, but got them back and hit a three with 30 seconds left (good job with the two-for-one)… Leave Boozer in? Hawks scored a layup around Boozer on a high screen (no defensive sub for Boozer by Scott and he paid the price)…Clarkson fouled out with 5 seconds left taking an intentional foul with 5 seconds left...
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ElginBaylor
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:57 pm    Post subject:

First?
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OregonLakerGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB.
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Charisma
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:22 pm    Post subject:

I think J. Brown had a TO credited to Lin by mistake. Brown had at least one TO but stat sheet says 0.

Thanks DB. Another one tomorrow!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:38 pm    Post subject:

It looks like one of the assistant coaches give a signal to Lin to foul when there's actually no foul to give. Lol

Lin was charged with Brown's TO

It looks like Brown's steal was credited to Lin.

What a mess.
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Maknusia
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:04 pm    Post subject:

Quartz888 wrote:
It looks like one of the assistant coaches give a signal to Lin to foul when there's actually no foul to give. Lol

Lin was charged with Brown's TO

It looks like Brown's steal was credited to Lin.

What a mess.


LOL, looks like they had hard time differentiating JL and JB!

Thanks DB
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:16 pm    Post subject:

Maknusia wrote:
Quartz888 wrote:
It looks like one of the assistant coaches give a signal to Lin to foul when there's actually no foul to give. Lol

Lin was charged with Brown's TO

It looks like Brown's steal was credited to Lin.

What a mess.


LOL, looks like they had hard time differentiating JL and JB!

Thanks DB


i know and that is sad....just look at the hair, lol
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:42 pm    Post subject:

Thanks, No one played well except Brown.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:55 pm    Post subject:

Another confirmation that our 2nd team/present starters are no match for elite title-contending teams
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:18 pm    Post subject:

THX DB. GO LAKERS
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:04 am    Post subject:

“They played without an agenda. The bottom line should be winning.”

I find this hard to believe.
Not the agenda bit, but the bit about the winning.

A team that wants to win wouldnt have been starting Sacre. Just saying.

Quoting a very famous person,
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:23 am    Post subject:

The Hawks exploited one of the main weaknesses of the Lakers offense by denying the first option. As DB noted in the previous game thread, the Lakers' sets have little in the way of counters. So you see a lot of possessions with the guard with the ball over his head for a long time trying to force the entry pass into the post or the wing when nothing is there, resulting in a lot of late-in-shotclock possessions.

Meanwhile, on the other side, the Hawks flowed into secondary actions almost immediately when something wasn't there. Their movements are pre-scripted depending on the positions of the players and the ball. More importantly, their sets are designed to get to the basket first, and swing to the perimeter second, while ours are often go from perimeter to perimeter.

That the game was as close as it was was a testament to the Lakers effort, particularly on the offensive glass, but it was too little too late.

I didn't like that quote from Byron:
Quote:
“They play the game the way it should be played,” he said of the Hawks. “They played without an agenda. The bottom line should be winning.”

As if if the players shared the ball more, their offense would look like that of the Hawks. It simply isn't designed that way. I didn't see much difference in terms of the Lakers sharing the ball this game versus all the previous games of the season. But apparently he knows his system works so it must be the players fault.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:47 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
The Hawks exploited one of the main weaknesses of the Lakers offense by denying the first option. As DB noted in the previous game thread, the Lakers' sets have little in the way of counters. So you see a lot of possessions with the guard with the ball over his head for a long time trying to force the entry pass into the post or the wing when nothing is there, resulting in a lot of late-in-shotclock possessions.

Meanwhile, on the other side, the Hawks flowed into secondary actions almost immediately when something wasn't there. Their movements are pre-scripted depending on the positions of the players and the ball. More importantly, their sets are designed to get to the basket first, and swing to the perimeter second, while ours are often go from perimeter to perimeter.

That the game was as close as it was was a testament to the Lakers effort, particularly on the offensive glass, but it was too little too late.

I didn't like that quote from Byron:
Quote:
“They play the game the way it should be played,” he said of the Hawks. “They played without an agenda. The bottom line should be winning.”

As if if the players shared the ball more, their offense would look like that of the Hawks. It simply isn't designed that way. I didn't see much difference in terms of the Lakers sharing the ball this game versus all the previous games of the season. But apparently he knows his system works so it must be the players fault.
Do you feel, given all the new players and rookies, that the counters are not known to the players.

In addition, since the PG is the coach on the court, it seems that they are not able to have the other players accountable to being in the right positions
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:25 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
The Hawks exploited one of the main weaknesses of the Lakers offense by denying the first option. As DB noted in the previous game thread, the Lakers' sets have little in the way of counters. So you see a lot of possessions with the guard with the ball over his head for a long time trying to force the entry pass into the post or the wing when nothing is there, resulting in a lot of late-in-shotclock possessions.

Meanwhile, on the other side, the Hawks flowed into secondary actions almost immediately when something wasn't there. Their movements are pre-scripted depending on the positions of the players and the ball. More importantly, their sets are designed to get to the basket first, and swing to the perimeter second, while ours are often go from perimeter to perimeter.

That the game was as close as it was was a testament to the Lakers effort, particularly on the offensive glass, but it was too little too late.

I didn't like that quote from Byron:
Quote:
“They play the game the way it should be played,” he said of the Hawks. “They played without an agenda. The bottom line should be winning.”

As if if the players shared the ball more, their offense would look like that of the Hawks. It simply isn't designed that way. I didn't see much difference in terms of the Lakers sharing the ball this game versus all the previous games of the season. But apparently he knows his system works so it must be the players fault.
Do you feel, given all the new players and rookies, that the counters are not known to the players.

In addition, since the PG is the coach on the court, it seems that they are not able to have the other players accountable to being in the right positions


No, most of the plays simply do not have them, or only have them after the first pass is made. For the ones that do have them, the players execute it fine. For example, if the players go baseline on Horns Elbow, the big in the high post looks to the weak side action to see if someone is freed up there. That's not great, but at least it's more than one option. Also, for certain Chin and Floppy sets, the players know what to do when first pass isn't there. But by my counting in the previous game, that's around less than 30% of their half court sets.

But for I would say the majority of the play calls including post and PnR, if the first option isn't there, there isn't a practiced secondary action. You see them try to force the play or you might see some gesturing to reset the action into something else instead.

You might say, just cut to the open spot or come up and set the screen on your own like in a pickup game. But with the way organized defenses impact spacing these days, that just doesn't work without some degree of coordination.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:30 am    Post subject:

^

fiendishoc should apply for the Lakers HC job. Completely runs circles around BS.

However, make sure to apply for the upcoming season since we don't want ourselves winning games now.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:25 am    Post subject:

Sacreligious wrote:
^

fiendishoc should apply for the Lakers HC job. Completely runs circles around BS.

However, make sure to apply for the upcoming season since we don't want ourselves winning games now.


Thanks- I'm no coach but I do pay attention to what good coaches are doing. Like this guy...



If anyone happens to watch the video, notice the short roll/cut that he talks about- Boozer was on the baseline during a couple of high PnR in this game and didn't cut, and his man contested / blocked the drive. Also, even his early offense drag screens have multiple secondary actions built in.


Last edited by fiendishoc on Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:29 am    Post subject:

Tanks DB
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:31 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:38 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
The Hawks exploited one of the main weaknesses of the Lakers offense by denying the first option. As DB noted in the previous game thread, the Lakers' sets have little in the way of counters. So you see a lot of possessions with the guard with the ball over his head for a long time trying to force the entry pass into the post or the wing when nothing is there, resulting in a lot of late-in-shotclock possessions.

Meanwhile, on the other side, the Hawks flowed into secondary actions almost immediately when something wasn't there. Their movements are pre-scripted depending on the positions of the players and the ball. More importantly, their sets are designed to get to the basket first, and swing to the perimeter second, while ours are often go from perimeter to perimeter.

That the game was as close as it was was a testament to the Lakers effort, particularly on the offensive glass, but it was too little too late.

I didn't like that quote from Byron:
Quote:
“They play the game the way it should be played,” he said of the Hawks. “They played without an agenda. The bottom line should be winning.”

As if if the players shared the ball more, their offense would look like that of the Hawks. It simply isn't designed that way. I didn't see much difference in terms of the Lakers sharing the ball this game versus all the previous games of the season. But apparently he knows his system works so it must be the players fault.
Do you feel, given all the new players and rookies, that the counters are not known to the players.

In addition, since the PG is the coach on the court, it seems that they are not able to have the other players accountable to being in the right positions


No, most of the plays simply do not have them, or only have them after the first pass is made. For the ones that do have them, the players execute it fine. For example, if the players go baseline on Horns Elbow, the big in the high post looks to the weak side action to see if someone is freed up there. That's not great, but at least it's more than one option. Also, for certain Chin and Floppy sets, the players know what to do when first pass isn't there. But by my counting in the previous game, that's around less than 30% of their half court sets.

But for I would say the majority of the play calls including post and PnR, if the first option isn't there, there isn't a practiced secondary action. You see them try to force the play or you might see some gesturing to reset the action into something else instead.

You might say, just cut to the open spot or come up and set the screen on your own like in a pickup game. But with the way organized defenses impact spacing these days, that just doesn't work without some degree of coordination.


That's the main problem I have since Phil and his triangle left; a lack of sophistication on offense. D'antoni's offense was a one trick pony. Scott's offense is a simplistic off-shoot of the Princeton. At least with the triangle you had an automatic counter to anything the defense threw at you.

Not saying the triangle is the only offense that would work but Phil implemented a more sophisticated offense with more counters. Scott seems lazy in that regard.
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bws94
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:45 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB. Hawks didn't shoot well, Shroeder played really well, Korver went down.

I don't think Byron had them prepared offensively especially against the trapping defense and I appreciate DB's intelligent analysis and breakdown of the players and fiendishoc's comments on the lack of counters. Team didn't communicate very well either on offense or defense, they were rattled but loved the fight back and not quit in them.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:27 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
The Hawks exploited one of the main weaknesses of the Lakers offense by denying the first option. As DB noted in the previous game thread, the Lakers' sets have little in the way of counters. So you see a lot of possessions with the guard with the ball over his head for a long time trying to force the entry pass into the post or the wing when nothing is there, resulting in a lot of late-in-shotclock possessions.

Meanwhile, on the other side, the Hawks flowed into secondary actions almost immediately when something wasn't there. Their movements are pre-scripted depending on the positions of the players and the ball. More importantly, their sets are designed to get to the basket first, and swing to the perimeter second, while ours are often go from perimeter to perimeter.

That the game was as close as it was was a testament to the Lakers effort, particularly on the offensive glass, but it was too little too late.

I didn't like that quote from Byron:
Quote:
“They play the game the way it should be played,” he said of the Hawks. “They played without an agenda. The bottom line should be winning.”

As if if the players shared the ball more, their offense would look like that of the Hawks. It simply isn't designed that way. I didn't see much difference in terms of the Lakers sharing the ball this game versus all the previous games of the season. But apparently he knows his system works so it must be the players fault.


Yep. This was a pretty good example of what I had mentioned:

DancingBarry wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:


It should be noted that BScott's comments on P&R were the exact words that Phil Jackson clearly stated


This is true. The two-man sequences prior to the fourth would usually be weak side pinch post situations out of the triangle or pnr only when things scramble and guys have to quickly create. He'd save the two-man pnr as his bread and butter in crunch time.

There are a lot of problems with what Scott is doing (or wanted to do) in that it's just pieces of systems most of the game. Our depth of knowledge in sets is pretty shallow with very limited ability to go to counters. And it really struggled to get penetration via pass, post or drive. Only thing that got penetration was two-man sequences. So we are reduced to inefficient long twos for long stretches when we don't do that.


Once a team does something that forces us to change gears, we often don't know how. Phil used to reference them as "automatics" which is how it should be when you read the D. The other problem is we've got so many people on last year's I'm not sure what kind of equity we're building up with players running his plays. Clarkson, Kobe...but who knows what next year will look like?

It's hard to tell specifically what Scott was referring to in regards to agendas. His reference to screen setting was probably what he meant and guys on last-year deals looking to get stats. And if there are agendas that run counter to what he's telling them, then they are not buying what he's selling.
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Charisma
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject:

Quartz888 wrote:
It looks like one of the assistant coaches give a signal to Lin to foul when there's actually no foul to give. Lol

Lin was charged with Brown's TO

It looks like Brown's steal was credited to Lin.

What a mess.


The box score has been corrected. Now it's showing Lin had 3 steals and 3 TOs. Brown had 2 steals and 1 TO.
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Richmond
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:42 pm    Post subject:

Charisma wrote:
Quartz888 wrote:
It looks like one of the assistant coaches give a signal to Lin to foul when there's actually no foul to give. Lol

Lin was charged with Brown's TO

It looks like Brown's steal was credited to Lin.

What a mess.


The box score has been corrected. Now it's showing Lin had 3 steals and 3 TOs. Brown had 2 steals and 1 TO.


Where are you seeing that?? Both ESPN and NBA.com still have the same #'s for Lin
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Maknusia
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:19 pm    Post subject:

Richmond wrote:
Charisma wrote:
Quartz888 wrote:
It looks like one of the assistant coaches give a signal to Lin to foul when there's actually no foul to give. Lol

Lin was charged with Brown's TO

It looks like Brown's steal was credited to Lin.

What a mess.


The box score has been corrected. Now it's showing Lin had 3 steals and 3 TOs. Brown had 2 steals and 1 TO.


Where are you seeing that?? Both ESPN and NBA.com still have the same #'s for Lin


http://stats.nba.com/game/#!/0021400989/
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Richmond
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:29 am    Post subject:

Maknusia wrote:
Richmond wrote:
Charisma wrote:
Quartz888 wrote:
It looks like one of the assistant coaches give a signal to Lin to foul when there's actually no foul to give. Lol

Lin was charged with Brown's TO

It looks like Brown's steal was credited to Lin.

What a mess.


The box score has been corrected. Now it's showing Lin had 3 steals and 3 TOs. Brown had 2 steals and 1 TO.


Where are you seeing that?? Both ESPN and NBA.com still have the same #'s for Lin


http://stats.nba.com/game/#!/0021400989/


I see it, thanks!!!
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