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| Better NBA Career? Kareem or Kobe? |
| Kareem |
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79% |
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| Kobe |
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20% |
[ 24 ] |
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| Total Votes : 117 |
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the association
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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 Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Big Game James wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kareem was also a great teammate and checked his ego at the door. He didn't care if he or Magic was the #1 option. Kobe is great and a fierce competitor, but his ego is one of the reasons he and Shaq didn't win 5 championships. He takes the game too serious at times, Kareem and Magic had other interest besides basketball. |
I have to 100% disagree with this statement.
It was Shaq. Yes, Kobe was difficult to get along with (still is). But they clashed because Shaq was the anti-Kobe when it came to taking the game seriously. Shaq coming in every year out of shape and then demanding to feed him the ball, was this duos downfall. There was no way a consummate perfectionist / professional would put up with that. |
The downfall started in the 2004 finals. Shaq wasn't in great shape but he still avg 27/11 on 63% FG. Kobe avg 22 on 38% FG and shot the ball a lot more times then Shaq. He wanted it to be his team, he wasn't there mentally that series. |
Stats don't tell the entire story. The Pistons had only two goals on D in that series, deny Shaq the ball and send everything on every possession at Kobe. The Lakers couldn't get the ball into Shaq enough that series due to their ball denial D and they gave him single coverage if they couldn't deny. Meanwhile, Kobe was held, pushed, and covered in every single manner possible. The Pistons let Shaq get his so to speak but they didn't want Kobe to get anything because they were more afraid of him. |
Yeah, the pistons decided to take Kobe out of the series and make Shaq beat them. |
We lost that 2004 Finals because 1. Kobe failed to carry his end of the bargain on both ends of the court; and 2. Karl Malone's injury deprived the team of one of its only credible scoring options outside of Shaquille and Kobe.
As far as I'm concerned, Shaq's name shouldn't even come up when blame is being apportioned for that calamity of a Finals series until four or five other names have been raked over the coals ... I'm not sure what your suggestion is above, but it seems like you're suggesting that Shaq failed to "beat them" and that's principally why the Lakers were bested in the '04 Finals? |
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tolivendiewithLA
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Joined: 31 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| TheLakerWay wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I rank them Magic, Cap, and Kobe. |
As far as how they performed as Lakers, this is my own ranking of the trio.
In terms of overall basketball careers, I would have Kareem #1 then Magic then Kobe.
Taking a look at some of the more relevant statistics for Magic, Kareem and Kobe as Lakers.
Titles -- all have 5
Finals appearances -- Magic 9, Kareem 8, Kobe 7
MVPs -- Magic 3, Kareem 3, Kobe 1
Finals MVPs -- Magic 3, Kobe 2, Kareem 1
Years missed the playoffs/total years -- Magic 0/13, Kareem 1/14, Kobe 3/19
The year that Kareem missed the playoffs with the Lakers, he was league MVP.
The numbers are close, but Magic and Cap have the slight team edge (more Finals appearances) as well as the slight individual edge (more combined MVPs and Finals MVPs) over Kobe. Kobe has the most years with the club, but he also has missed out on the postseason at a higher rate than either Magic or Kareem did as Lakers.
If the Lakers miss the playoffs in 2015-16, then Kobe will have been part of 50% (4 of 8 squads) of all Lakers teams in the history of the franchise who missed the playoffs. |
Talk about doing Kobe an injustice. In years he's missed the playoffs, 05 he had no help, what Grant, young Odom, Butler ect? and the last two years he had near career ending injuries. Just stating he was on Lakers teams that missed the playoffs doesn't tell the whole story.
On best Laker careers. All 3 players are legends, but overall career Kareem easily wins. On best Laker careers.. it should be 50/50 between Magic and Kobe, and Kobe definitely has a better career over Kareem if just counting Laker years. Magic and Kareem also benefited from having a deep roster, Worthy is arguably a better player alone than Pau. Then you have Wilkes, Cooper, Scott ect, so deep, not to mention playing with each other... You also left out how Kobe has the most 1st team all D selections ever as a Lakers more than Magic and Kareem combined. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Big Game James wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kareem was also a great teammate and checked his ego at the door. He didn't care if he or Magic was the #1 option. Kobe is great and a fierce competitor, but his ego is one of the reasons he and Shaq didn't win 5 championships. He takes the game too serious at times, Kareem and Magic had other interest besides basketball. |
I have to 100% disagree with this statement.
It was Shaq. Yes, Kobe was difficult to get along with (still is). But they clashed because Shaq was the anti-Kobe when it came to taking the game seriously. Shaq coming in every year out of shape and then demanding to feed him the ball, was this duos downfall. There was no way a consummate perfectionist / professional would put up with that. |
The downfall started in the 2004 finals. Shaq wasn't in great shape but he still avg 27/11 on 63% FG. Kobe avg 22 on 38% FG and shot the ball a lot more times then Shaq. He wanted it to be his team, he wasn't there mentally that series. |
Stats don't tell the entire story. The Pistons had only two goals on D in that series, deny Shaq the ball and send everything on every possession at Kobe. The Lakers couldn't get the ball into Shaq enough that series due to their ball denial D and they gave him single coverage if they couldn't deny. Meanwhile, Kobe was held, pushed, and covered in every single manner possible. The Pistons let Shaq get his so to speak but they didn't want Kobe to get anything because they were more afraid of him. |
Yeah, the pistons decided to take Kobe out of the series and make Shaq beat them. |
We lost that 2004 Finals because 1. Kobe failed to carry his end of the bargain on both ends of the court; and 2. Karl Malone's injury deprived the team of one of its only credible scoring options outside of Shaquille and Kobe.
As far as I'm concerned, Shaq's name shouldn't even come up when blame is being apportioned for that calamity of a Finals series until four or five other names have been raked over the coals ... I'm not sure what your suggestion is above, but it seems like you're suggesting that Shaq failed to "beat them" and that's principally why the Lakers were bested in the '04 Finals? |
A. The remarks about Kobe are ridiculous. I'm not even going to legitimize them with a pointed rebuttal.
B. Neither 24 or myself blamed Shaq. It wasn't his fault that the Piston's D knew how to defend the entry pass extremely well and outside of Kobe, we had no one who could make a decent entry pass.
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LakerEric
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Kareem by far. This is an insult to even ask IMO |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| LakerEric wrote: | | Kareem by far. This is an insult to even ask IMO |
While I agree with Kareem, I disagree that it is an insult. Kobe definitely is in that discussion.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerEric wrote: | | Kareem by far. This is an insult to even ask IMO |
While I agree with Kareem, I disagree that it is an insult. Kobe definitely is in that discussion. |
Exactly. Kobe's resume is less impressive than that of KAJ, but it's not like a Kobe to Ray Allen comparison. In fact, If you look at rings, stats, all NBA teams, All Defense teams, longevity, MVP's and all of it, Only KAJ, Kobe, TD and KD are in the argument. In that order as well IMO.
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Lakers 4 eva wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | markjay wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Magic was the best player in the 80's followed by Bird, Jordan, then Kareem..... |
That may be true. But Kareem had a decade of NBA experience before the 1980s even started. |
Agree, I think Kareem had a better career because of the longevity but Magic was the better player. |
In what world is Magic better than Kareem? |
In a world where Kareem gets hurt and 20 year old Magic plays center scores 42 points, gets 15 rebounds, 7 assists and outplays Dr. J to win the championship. |
Before Kareem got hurt in that series, all he did was average 33 points, 13.6 rebounds with 3 assists and 4.5 blocks per game. Lol. He was well on his way to the Finals MVP |
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Theseus
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| As much as I love Kobe, its hard to put him ahead of the GOAT |
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | I'm actually surprised how one-sided this is towards Kareem.
I would argue that it's AT WORST a 50/50 toss-up between the two of them.
Although personally, I voted Kobe in the poll.
Consider this:
1) While Kareem has 6 rings (1 more than Kobe), they both have the same amount of Finals MVPs (2).
2) Kareem never won a ring without another Top 5-10 GOAT candidate. (He had Big O for his first ring, Magic for the other 4).
3) Kobe managed to make it to 3 finals and win 2 chips without another Top 10 GOAT candidate on his team.
4) Kobe has more memorable moments (regular season and playoffs) than Kareem does.
5) Kobe has pretty much matched Kareem in the longevity department.
6) Kareem's 6 regular season MVPs to Kobe's 1 looks less impressive when you consider Kobe could've/should've easily won anywhere from 1 to 5 more had it not been for blatant media bias (you could make the argument for him winning it in 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010). In contrast, Kareem was awarded an MVP during the 76 season where the Lakers went 40-42 and missed the playoffs. |
2003 - great numbers but finished Ten games behind the Spurs in the conference and nine behind the Kings in the division.
2006 - crazy numbers. Should have received more consideration. In the modern NBA, MVPs don't go to guys on 7th seeded squads.
2007 - Dirk on a 60 win squad. No brainer.
2009 and 2010 - great number but James's numbers were better and his team finished with the best record in both seasons. Have no problem if either had won.
As far as Jabbar's sub .500 MVP, totally agree. Players voted back then and they gave it to the best player in the league at the time. If that criteria had occurred from 2003-2010, Bean would have cleaned up. And I think you're kinda stretching a little with four and five. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Kareem took a 27-55 team to 56-26 with basically the same roster except another good rookie named Bobby Dandridge and no Big O.
When Kobe didn't have other stars his teams struggled.
If Kareem didn't go to college for four years he'd probably have over 45,000 thousand points.
Kareem never shot less than 53% FG until he was 40 years old. He averaged over 56% for his career. We all thought he was done when he only shot 47% at the age of 41. I get that Kobe plays a different position but his best years were equal to Kareem's worst year shooting. Before you say that Kobe was a guard and Kareem was a center... Magic averaged 52%... Jordan averaged 50%...Nash averaged 50%... Wade averages 49%... Stockton averaged 51.5%
Kobe averages 45% and if he keeps playing it will end up at 44% or even worse.
Last edited by Sentient Meat on Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lakerfanaticPT
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Kareem without a doubt.
Just went to staples.......awesome statue of him as well  |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerEric wrote: | | Kareem by far. This is an insult to even ask IMO |
While I agree with Kareem, I disagree that it is an insult. Kobe definitely is in that discussion. |
No he isn't, and that's not an insult to Kobe. Kobe doesn't have him on titles. He doesn't have him on accolades. He doesn't have him on his touted longevity. He doesn't even have him at what he's best at....scoring. Kobe trails in pretty much every category there is when compared to Kareem, along with almost every other player in league history not named Russell and Jordan. |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
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Nightwalker
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Why? I feel Kobe has surpassed Magic already due to accomplishments and being better overall player some will disagree but Kobe on same tier as Magic Johnson. |
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danzag
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Nightwalker wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Why? I feel Kobe has surpassed Magic already due to accomplishments and being better overall player some will disagree but Kobe on same tier as Magic Johnson. |
I respect your opinion, but choosing between Magic and Kobe is like asking a mother to choose her favourite son. 
No way in hell I'm able to decide who's the better player. I don't think that's very easy to determine. |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Nightwalker wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Why? I feel Kobe has surpassed Magic already due to accomplishments and being better overall player some will disagree but Kobe on same tier as Magic Johnson. |
Magic was the better overall player. Kobe is great but mostly because of longevity. Very similar to Farve in football. Magic was the best player in the greatest era of basketball. |
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Nightwalker
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Nightwalker wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Why? I feel Kobe has surpassed Magic already due to accomplishments and being better overall player some will disagree but Kobe on same tier as Magic Johnson. |
Magic was the better overall player. Kobe is great but mostly because of longevity. Very similar to Farve in football. Magic was the best player in the greatest era of basketball. |
Lol comparing Kobe to Favre who is most overrated QB in NFL history that such an insult to Kobe if anything Kobe is more like Tom Brady than Favre. In your opinion I strongley disagree with. Kobe is best player in 2000's, MJ 90's, and Magic 80's. Kobe better all around than Magic due to being way more athletic, bigger, faster, stronger, greater individual skillet, defender, scoring, harder to defend and guard the comparison with Magic but the edges for Magic the superior leader and team player he had those intangibles you can't teach or learn. |
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the association
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerEric wrote: | | Kareem by far. This is an insult to even ask IMO |
While I agree with Kareem, I disagree that it is an insult. Kobe definitely is in that discussion. |
Exactly. Kobe's resume is less impressive than that of KAJ, but it's not like a Kobe to Ray Allen comparison. In fact, If you look at rings, stats, all NBA teams, All Defense teams, longevity, MVP's and all of it, Only KAJ, Kobe, TD and KD are in the argument. In that order as well IMO. |
I know this is a typo, but who did you intend in that last slot? |
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Batguano
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Kobe > Magic
1) Kobe was an elite defensive player who made multiple All Defensive Teams. Magic was not. The game is played on both sides of the court.
2) Magic never won a chip without Kareem. Funny how that's never brought up to diminish Magic's career like it was when Kobe won with Shaq.
3) Kobe's longevity destroys Magic's. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Kobe > Magic
1) Kobe was an elite defensive player who made multiple All Defensive Teams. Magic was not. The game is played on both sides of the court.
2) Magic never won a chip without Kareem. Funny how that's never brought up to diminish Magic's career like it was when Kobe won with Shaq.
3) Kobe's longevity destroys Magic's. |
1. Magic made it to the Finals, from his rookie year to pretty much his last full season.
2. How many Finals runs?
3. So what if Magic never won without Kareem. You think Kareem was in his prime in his late 80s?
4. The longevity issue is unfair.
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Batguano
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Kobe > Magic
1) Kobe was an elite defensive player who made multiple All Defensive Teams. Magic was not. The game is played on both sides of the court.
2) Magic never won a chip without Kareem. Funny how that's never brought up to diminish Magic's career like it was when Kobe won with Shaq.
3) Kobe's longevity destroys Magic's. |
1. Magic made it to the Finals, from his rookie year to pretty much his last full season.
2. How many Finals runs?
3. So what if Magic never won without Kareem. You think Kareem was in his prime in his late 80s?
4. The longevity issue is unfair. |
So it took more finals appearances for Magic to get the same amount of rings as Kobe. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Kobe > Magic
1) Kobe was an elite defensive player who made multiple All Defensive Teams. Magic was not. The game is played on both sides of the court.
2) Magic never won a chip without Kareem. Funny how that's never brought up to diminish Magic's career like it was when Kobe won with Shaq.
3) Kobe's longevity destroys Magic's. |
1. Magic made it to the Finals, from his rookie year to pretty much his last full season.
2. How many Finals runs?
3. So what if Magic never won without Kareem. You think Kareem was in his prime in his late 80s?
4. The longevity issue is unfair. |
So it took more finals appearances for Magic to get the same amount of rings as Kobe. |
So it took Kobe to wait for another All Star big man to get back to the Finals?
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Batguano
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| An All-star big, yes. But not another Top 10/GOAT candidate (which neither Kareem nor Magic proved that they could win without) |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | An All-star big, yes. But not another Top 10/GOAT candidate (which neither Kareem nor Magic proved that they could win without) |
The 1980s were far more competitive than the past 15 years of basketball.
Why do you think it was so difficult to repeat championships?
You do realize that there were a minimum of 3 Hall of Famers in their prime going up against the Lakers, right?
It wasn't just McHale, Bird, Dennis Johnson... then Robert Parish, even Bill Walton contributed off the bench...
Kobe missed the playoffs. When was the last time Magic Johnson actually missed the playoffs?
You do realize that Magic was even younger than Kobe Bryant when he won his first championship, right? And as "non-athletic" as he was, scored 42 in a Finals game playing C?
That's like Shaq missing Game 7, Kobe plays center, and scores 42.
Except, one actually happened.
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Dave20
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Kobe's not in the same tier as Kareem. I'm still surprised to see that some thinks he's better then Magic. |
Kobe > Magic
1) Kobe was an elite defensive player who made multiple All Defensive Teams. Magic was not. The game is played on both sides of the court.
2) Magic never won a chip without Kareem. Funny how that's never brought up to diminish Magic's career like it was when Kobe won with Shaq.
3) Kobe's longevity destroys Magic's. |
Magic played in the greatest era of basketball. He was a 6'9 230 lb PG that made players around him better. Kobe is top 10, but Magic was a more talented player. |
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